Obama admitted that he does not "KNOW" what he would have done regarding the IWR vote...

[CyberPieHole]

Assuming he had gotten his slacker self to the Senate in time to vote (if he had been in office at the time) and also assuming he did not vote "PRESENT" or voted one of his "OOOPsies" ("I pressed the wrong button on that"), Obama has admitted that he DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE WOULD HAVE DONE.

Here is the quote:

"I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made." B.H. Obama 7.26.2004

He and his supporters can spin it all they like but the fact of the matter is that Obama was not in any position to vote on the IWR, and when he was asked about it he admitted his own shortcoming and told the world he didn't know what he would have done.

Either Obama was telling the truth that day (He DOESN'T know what he would have done), or he was lying and saying this for political reasons ("I didn't want to criticize the 2004 ticket")...and if the latter is true, then what else is he lying about for political reasons? Is the man a liar or just plain ignorant? Obama has certainly NOT proved himself to be an exceptional Senator: His voting record is dismal and uninspired.

I quote Obama's "I don't know" moment from an article you can read in it's entirety here:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/10/obama-on-the-wa.html

If Senator Obama is our nominee you can bet this will surface in the General Election. Flip~flopping is a name the repubs love to hurl and Obama will be dubbed with the moniker and for good reason: he is not a man of convictions.

[DJ13]

1. This has been answered for months

Maybe a less pro-Hillary web search might give you the answer?

[CyberPieHole]

2. "Answered"??? I posed no question.

[ericgtr]

7. Obama was against it all along

People keep beating this dead horse looking for any little thing they can twist around about it but he was never for it. See here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8o42TCyphY

[CyberPieHole]

11. If he was against it all along he should have said so, instead he said "I don't know"...

It's a matter of record. Spinning it doesn't change it.

[ericgtr]

14. Spinning it is exactly what you are doing

He may not have voted on it but beginning in October of 2002 he has documented proof that he was against it, before the invasion all the while Hillary was voting for it. Twist this how you may but this video shows a clear timeline. I ask you to show something of substance instead of these bullshit little blurbs where the Hillary campaign is desperately trying to pick words apart.

[CyberPieHole]

19. In 2004 he doesn't know if he's for it or if he's against it...classic FLIP~FLOPPER...

and he will be pegged as such.

[ericgtr]

25. Of course he will

especially when someone sporting two Hillary images in their profile says so. When one is in this classic group of "Hillary or die" users you can present them with any type of proven evidence and it will always be denied. Do you get around ok in your combat boots?

[CyberPieHole]

28. I do when I am replying to your posts....yes...

[emilyg]

71. He said "I don't know."

[TwilightGardener]

3. He's being honest and diplomatic in addressing a hypothetical--Obama

is thoughtful and analytical. Silly to try to use this against him. Let's look at a much better explanation of voting for the IWR: "Condi Rice and George Bush tricked me, and Chuck Hagel fell for it too, so I'm not the only one..."

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

4. Another Obama flip?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

8. No, another post where a line was 'conveniently' skipped

the very next sentence after the 'i don't know' is "What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made"

[CyberPieHole]

15. Once again, read the OP...the quote is there in its entirety. n/t

[Bodhi BloodWave]

5. Why must those posting this 'i don't know' crap almost always cut of the very next line

Which was "What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made"

I'm starting to get really tired of that tactic, and i'm fairly sure i've already posted this to you atleast once before

[CyberPieHole]

9. Did you read the OP?

Egg on your face, much?:evilgrin:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

17. I'll admit having gotten an egg on my face, and it was hard boiled to

I guess this topic got me on a very short trigger since i see it far to much on a number of forums i frequent

i saw the bolded part and kinda went right for reply *smacks himself on the face* and here i tend to ask others i know to read things properly first

[CyberPieHole]

21. Well, thanks for admitting it...and I realize things can get heated...

I do think the quote should be written in its entirety...he does hedge at the end...but, it doesn't change the fact that he admits to not knowing what he would have done.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

i mostly see it as him being honest while giving some

vague critique and staying by his stance(he was not going to blatantly undermine Kerry and Edwards at that juncture, and if he had i dare bet 60+% of this board would have attacked him for doing so )

He points out the fact he didn't have access to the senate papers so he does not know how he would have voted in the senate(had he been there), but based on the info he had at the time(not being in the senate) the case for war had not been made.

To me that seems rather straightforward.

And no problems, i have no trouble admitting that I've made an mistake as i take my own words rather seriously(while thats mostly related to promises, i try to stay as factual/accurate as possible)

[Cant trust em]

6. Sounds like what any intelligent person would say

having been given different information I might have come to a different decision.

[goodgd_yall]

32. Agreed

The problem I see is how his opinion vs Hillary's vote is held up to be as meaningful as it is. We really don't know if, under the same circumstances that a U.S. Senator was under, whether Obama would have voted for the IWR. He has admitted so. And it is an intelligent and honest response.

[krkaufman]

88. Plenty voted NAY ...

NAYs ---23
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

... though notably absent are those w/ Presidential ambitions.

YEAs ---77
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

One can hypothesize that Obama would have voted along with all the other ambitious Senators, or one can observe that his candidacy has viability because he staked out the correct position on the Iraq resolution.

[cjmastaw]

10. Fortunately, Just like you guys say... You Can't Change The Past!

And he got it right then. She did not.

[CyberPieHole]

12. He didn't get anything right, because he admitted he didn't "know" how he would vote...

so either he's ignorant or a liar. A combo works as well.

[cjmastaw]

35. but he did say before the vote that he didn't support it.

Now didn't he. You can't change the facts. You can't come back a year later, after the vote is cast and say, OH, he might have. He doesn't know.

What I DO KNOW is that Hillary DID vote for the war. That is a FACT.

It's her own fault for not reading the NIE. Being "briefed" on something like that, it's just LAZY!

[CyberPieHole]

58. Please, if there is anyone who should be the very picture of "lazy" it's Obama...

who can't get his lazy butt over to the Senate to vote on matters of state.

[JAbuchan08]

80. we could have used a little more "laziness" from Hillary n/t

[Maribelle]

13. Obama needs to explain the "I know" part of his infamous Oct 26th 2002 speech

Obama said he knew here: But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors

But Obama never ever explained how he knew. That should be easy for him to do considering how many truly sincere people are basing their vote for the POTUS on this single issue.

How did Obama know?

[indimuse]

24. maybe this is how he knew... just sayin..let's introduce you to Nadhmi Auchi iraqi billionaire

http://www.pr-inside.com/crime-fighting-senate-candidate-andy-r395245.htm

Andy Martin news conference breaks news on Barack Obama/Tony Rezko federal criminal case
Crime-fighting senate candidate Andy Martin discusses Sunday's Chicago Sun-Times disclosures concerning Senator Barack Obama


<<<snip>>>>

sunonmars (1000+ posts) Tue Jan-29-08 04:25 AM
Original message
Rezco's iraqi billionaire moneyman, read Auchi's background, its bad

Rezco's iraqi billionaire moneyman, read Auchi's background, its bad
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 04:35 AM by sunonmars
This guy was involved with Saddam, drug companies, an iraqi acquisition merchant. Any wonder they didnt want this guy getting a visa.

Did Obama have a 17 yr relationship with a man who has ties to the Iraqi regime and countless shady deals? This is not just bad its absolutely explosive. We have a Senator running for President with a Long term relationship involved with a fixer called Rezco in Chicago, who in turn looks like his money is coming from an Iraqi that was tied to Saddam and helping acquire iraq deals and fraudulent drug companies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1086487,00....

Allow me to introduce you to Nadhmi Auchi. He was charged in the 1950s with being an accomplice of Saddam Hussein, when the future tyrant was acquiring his taste for blood. He was investigated in the 1980s for his part in alleged bribes to the fabulously corrupt leaders of post-war Italy. In the 1990s, the Belgium Ambassador to Luxembourg claimed that Auchi's bank held money Saddam and Colonel Gadaffi had stolen from their luckless peoples. In 2002, officers from the Serious Fraud Squad raided the offices of one of Auchi's drug companies as part of an investigation of what is alleged to be the biggest swindle ever of the NHS. With allegations, albeit unproven, like these hanging over him, wouldn't you think that British MPs would have the sense to stay away?

Perhaps you would, but I forgot to add a final fact about Mr Auchi: he is the thirteenth-richest man in Britain, and he has been able to collect British politicians the way other people collect stamps...........................

[CyberPieHole]

31. The Obama/Rezko/Auchi connection deserves more investigation...

thank you for your post...and I will read the linked article.:hi:

[cjmastaw]

39. Rezko was supporting the Clintons just as long as Obama

I did you forget that little fact?

[CyberPieHole]

44. Yet Obama has been in the employ of the Syrian Slum~lord...lest you forget...

I wouldn't want that to be left out.

[cjmastaw]

48. NO, his firm was. He had about as much to do with it as Hillary and Whitewater.

Nice try though.

[CyberPieHole]

52. Then why did Obama buy a piece of property from Rezko? The devil made him do it?

Rezko and Obama are linked together.

[indimuse]

57. thanks CPH.

have mooooooore... and YES. there needs to be more invetigation...think about it...he has LOST ALL of his State Senate records! What??:hi:

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) dodged questions Sunday about releasing papers from his eight years as an Illinois state senator, and his campaign has not answered
records requests from the state’s two largest newspapers.
Obama’s campaign has prodded Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) to make available additional records of her communications during her husband’s presidency.

In the Democratic presidential debate in Philadelphia on Oct. 30, Obama said to Clinton: "We have just gone through one of the most secretive administrations in our
history, and not releasing, I think, these records at the same time, Hillary, as you're making the claim that this is the basis for your experience, I think, is a problem."
On Nov. 3, the Obama campaign sent out a letter from two leaders of his Iowa campaign, pressing Clinton to release her White House schedules before the Iowa caucuses.
“Fully releasing these records is in keeping with the spirit of the process that makes the Iowa caucus so special,” the letter says.

But two Chicago newspapers have said the Obama campaign has not responded to their requests for comparable papers from his career.
On NBC’s “Meet the Press” on Sunday, moderator Tim Russert asked Obama about the papers from his state legislative days, from 1997 to 2004. Obama first said, “We did not keep those records.”
He then elaborated: “Well, let’s be clear.

“In the state Senate, every single piece of information, every document related to state government was kept by the state of Illinois and has been disclosed and is
available and has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by news outlets in Illinois.

“The stuff that I did not keep has to do with, for example, my schedule. I didn’t have a schedule. I was a state senator. I wasn’t intending to have the Barack Obama

State Senate Library. I didn’t have 50 or 500 people to, to help me archive these issues.”

On Friday, Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that she had asked Obama at a news conference: “Do your state senate papers still exist? If they do, just where are they? And would you ever intend to make them public to be responsive to some requests?”
Sweet wrote that he replied: "Nobody has requested specific documents.”
But the Chicago Tribune has reported that it “requested documents from his time in Springfield and never received a response.”

And Sweet wrote of her own paper, “The Chicago Sun-Times has also been asking about Obama's papers.”

Russert pressed Obama, who has touted his service in Springfield as proof of his experience, about his records of meetings with lobbyists.

“I did not have a scheduler, but, as I said, every document related to my interactions with government is available right now,” Obama said. “And, as I said, news outlets

have already looked at them.”

Asked by Russert if he would commit to publishing his schedule each day, as his colleague Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.), does, Obama said: “Well, you know, these

days I have a public presidential schedule that I think everybody has access to.”

The Republican National Committee has kept up a near-daily drumbeat demanding release of the Clinton papers.
RNC spokesman Danny Diaz said of Obama’s reticence on records: “Barack Obama is a rookie senator with few accomplishments. Perhaps he’s reluctant to inform the public about his activities in Springfield because they demonstrate a lack of leadership at a state level as well.”

WHERE is Obamas Records during his time in Senate?
While in State government here in Illinois, Barack was known as a "nice guy," but has little to show for his years in state government. He was never particularly known
by the public at large as a vocal leader and was rarely out in front of any issue. In fact, few Illinoisans even knew his name at all until he ran for the Senate seat against

Alan Keyes. He was an unknown, a non-entity as far as state politics was concerned.
Yet, the Obama camp has made no effort to assist investigators((((REZKO/DAVIS))) to look into his state records. In fact, Senator Obama has blithely claimed that his records have been
thrown out.(((REZKO/DAVIS))) Chicago columnist Lynn Sweet reports that Obama, who has called for "transparency in government" from his rivals, is not much interested in revealing his
own documents.
"I was in the state Senate for eight years," Obama said. "I had one staff person, that was what was allocated. I don't have archivists in the state Senate. I don't have

the Barack Obama State Senate Library available to me, so we had a bunch of file cabinets. I do not have a whole bunch of records from those years. Now, if there are
particular documents that you are interested in, then you should let us know...As I said, I didn't have the resources to ensure that all this stuff was archived in some way...it could have been thrown out."
Hillary and Edwards have BOTH turned theirs over...even Hillary's records as First Lady have been scrutinized, WHERE are the records for Senator Obama? Lost?
That is the MOST intelligent thing HE can say?
ALL the RECORDS are MISSING the ENTIRE time he was Senator! NOT just RECENT ones, this came up because Barrack asked for everyone elses records which have been produced look at MSNBC.com for the full reports!((((WHERE IS THE MSM ONSLAUGHT OF QUESTIONING ABOUT OBAMA"S MIA RECORDS???)))

They appear to have conviniently vanished into thin air & sadly, when you ask intelligent questions like this which NEED to be asked & answered...... I and Others are unjustly
accused, of being an Obama basher BECAUSE you told the TruthOR ASK FOR TRUTH>> and are greeted with a response like " who cares ? " which makes me wonder how many of
the above pro-Obama answerers turn off their computer after answering our questions in order to watch the ...American Idol...Sesmae Street?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>:rofl::popcorn:

[CyberPieHole]

61. The repubs are chomping at the bit...if they are allowed to do battel against Obama...

...I find it so curious that so little is made of the missing files...the repubs are sure to point it out, if they don't have copies of them already. Thanks for posting and nice to meet you indimuse.:hi:

[indimuse]

92. Oh...This and other issues have been held back...imo...

I'm sure they have a list of scandalous ammo....they will use if he is the nom...I don't think his fans get it. And I don't think Obama and his family will be able to handle the merciless shameful attacks that will be waged..especially when they begin the "visual" ones...they will run them and run them...and that will be the end...remember Max Cleland..there are obvious reasons these issues/stories are on the down lo now. obvious reasons Murdoch's papers are endorsing him...for now..

nice to meet you as well CyberPieHole...lol..love the username..:)

[CyberPieHole]

96. Why is it not obvious to more people...the repubs are playing our party like a violin...

Oh, the names and images that they will play, will make the Willy Horton campaign look like a walk in the park.:hi:

[pampango]

16. I hope he comes up with a similar way to support Hillary if she gets the nomination.

Would you prefer that he campaign for her by lambasting her IWR vote? If he is asked this July about Hillary's IWR vote, would you want him to say that it was the right thing for her to do, even if he does not believe it?

Perhaps he should shake his head and blast her for that vote. (With that kind of help from fellow Democrats in your campaign, who needs Republicans attacking you?)

If he felt that he had made his anti-war position clear and was still trying to support Kerry, how would you have him do it?

[CyberPieHole]

66. He could have been honest and said "I would have voted against it"...

and left it at that. Instead he said he didn't "know" what he would have done.

[pampango]

74. He could have said that but while you're campaigning for a fellow Democrat

you're not at your most effective when you criticize their votes in the process.

If Hillary is nominated, I hope that Obama and she can work out a way for him to finesse their differences her IWR vote, so the he can campaign effectively for her.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. Wow, you can't even finish reading your own quote.

What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.

How hard is that to understand? In his view, there was no case for war.

So what is the story here?

Or are you trying to justify Hillary Clinton's inept support of this war?

[CyberPieHole]

22. I did, and he said "I don't know"...either he lied or he "didn't know."

No other way to explain it.

[Drunken Irishman]

29. Except he opposed the war, was against the war and has been against the war.

This is a non-issue and you know it. The fact is, he followed that quote up by saying HE DID NOT SEE JUSTIFICATION TO INVADE IRAQ. Is that really hard to grasp? Of course Obama didn't get the intelligence Clinton and other senators received, however, based on what he knew, he was against the war.

You can't say the same thing for Hillary Clinton.

Was Hillary out protesting this war prior to the invasion? No.
Was Hillary speaking out against this war prior to the invasion? No.
Was Obama out protesting this war prior to the invasion? Yes.
Was Obama speaking out against this war prior to the invasion? Yes.

These petty attacks were the same ones lobbed at Howard Dean in 2003. Well I don't think anyone could ever question Dean's opposition to this war.

Face it, Obama owned Hillary on the Iraq War issue. So much so that you're now trying to spin a non-story here. He stated, after the "I don't know" that he did not see justification for the war. Which means, he would never have supported it. Clinton? She not only supported the war, but defends her vote.

[CyberPieHole]

41. Except Obama HAS BEEN FUNDING THE IRAQ WAR at each and every turn.

And he admitted he didn't know what he would have done. The record speaks for itself.

[Drunken Irishman]

47. He also admitted he didn't see justification for the war, right?

So why hold 3 words above years of statements and quotes opposing this war?

As for funding it, I disagree with Obama on that, but this isn't about the funding, is it? It's about who supported the war prior to it happening and the lone candidate left to support that war was Hillary Clinton.

Spin it all you want, it doesn't change the facts, my friend. :)

[CyberPieHole]

68. So he FUNDS a war he doesn't believe to be justified...

what does that say about him?

[Drunken Irishman]

70. So you're admitting Clinton still supports the war?

[CyberPieHole]

94. Obama HAS supported the war with his votes. I'm glad we agree on that.

[JAbuchan08]

81. Uh.... so has Hillary, and for the same reasons I'm guessing.

[CyberPieHole]

95. B.H. Obama is running as the anti~war candidate...yet he funds the war he says he opposed...

doesn't make much sense.

[JAbuchan08]

102. I thought Hillary opposed the war now too?

so aren't the rules the same for her?

[krkaufman]

90. The "record" is that he was vocal in the Iraq resolution being a stupid fucking idea.

And he has been vocal that we need to be as careful getting OUT of Iraq, as "we" -- those who voted for the resolution -- were careless getting in.

Sad spinning of reality on your part. Hillary made the wrong call for all the wrong, calculating reasons.

[CyberPieHole]

93. Yeah and when was that? Not on 7/26/04 when he didn't know how he would have voted.

Was that the one day he forgot what his position was on the "stupid fucking idea"?

Obamanations are plainly ignoring the reality of the matter. Yet, I am not surprised.

[krkaufman]

99. I am now laughing out loud.

I am communicating with one of the seedlings of our own Left-of-Center 25%er forest. Facts and reality mean not a wit, when they call into question the purity of their candidate.

Hillary made the wrong call, due to bad judgement. Obama was outspoken that the resolution was a bad move. Period.

[northzax]

36. righto, but he didn't know what others, including Senator Clinton

might have known. He wasn't privy to all the information the Senate Intelligence Committee was privy to. that's all.

[snooper2]

20. CyberPieHole

fitting

[CyberPieHole]

snooper2

inane

[JTFrog]

23. But he didn't, Clinton did. No spin will ever change that fact. n/t

[CyberPieHole]

26. Yeah, Obama admitted to being ignorant...he doesn't know what he would have done...

[Drunken Irishman]

33. And you obviously are ignoring a bulk of his statement.

Saying he did not know what he would have done lacks honesty and it's actually quite uncomfortable watching you try to spin this non-issue.

"What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."

So he does know, but keep ignoring that comment.

[CyberPieHole]

37. Then, if he "knew" the "case was not made", why did he NOT "know" what he would do?

Liar or ignorant. No other choice.

[Drunken Irishman]

He explained what his opinion was.

Only you refuse to read past the "I don't know" and it's unfortunate.

Show me evidence where Obama has ever stated he would have voted to authorize the Iraq War. I can show you tons of evidence to suggest he was out speaking against the war PRIOR to the vote and that's all that matters. You can try and take these insignificant 3 words and spin them however you want, but it doesn't change the fact Obama is on the record as saying he did not believe in the Iraq War and Clinton is on the record as voting for the Iraq War. Now you tell me, which one is more damning?

[BlackVelvet04]

83. And there lies the

crux of the matter....they had two different vantage points.

[krkaufman]

100. Yes, they did. And for some reason, from the vantage point with even more information ...

... Clinton still voted for the war, while 22 of her fellow Democratic Senators, like Bob Graham, voted against.

Did Sen. Clinton read the full Iraq NIE, as Bob Graham urged his fellow Senators to do? Was her failure not caring enough to read the document? Not having sufficient knowledge and judgment to recognize the holes in the case for war? Prioritizing political triangulation over what was right? Or was her failure putting trust in a man already seen to be untrustworthy, and bent on war?

[JTFrog]

45. I see you've been set on the Cyclone spin cycle.

CLUE - He didn't vote for it. Your girl did. No matter the velocity of your spin, those facts will never change.

[CyberPieHole]

50. He has voted to fund the war on each and every turn...

funny how he has managed to get himself back in time to do so but he has.

[pampango]

56. He was trying to support Kerry. I hope he does the same for Hillary if she is nominated. n/t

[goodgd_yall]

27. The way I see it

If he were actually in the Senate then and been exposed to whatever the senators were, would he have still voted against the IWR? I think that was very honest of him to say he doesn't know what he would have done. Of course, he isn't going to say that now (I don't think he's said it anytime in the past year, but I might be wrong).

[MrCoffee]

30. Of all the really really dumb attempts to smear a candidate...

This one is king shit of turd mountain.

[CyberPieHole]

34. Wow, did you come up with that all by your little self?

Admit it, you had a grown up help you, didn't you?:hi:

Using a candidates own word against them is hardly a "smear" tactic.

[MrCoffee]

42. Willfully ignoring the first part of the quote is, in fact, a smear tactic

The man said he didn't have all the intelligence reports, and therefore couldn't say what he would have done.

I'm no fan of Obama, but I think it's proper for a Senator to say that, without all the fact, he couldn't make an informed guess as to what he might have done.

[stillcool]

43. "Word" is a smear tactic...

when you don't supply the rest of the 'word(s)'. Surely you can do better than this.

[CyberPieHole]

49. I supplied all of his "words" from that quotation...

read the article and see for yourself.

[The_Casual_Observer]

38. by his "vantage point" in 2004 , it is safe to say the the case was not made

It looks like another "no vote" for Obama, what else is new?

[abburdlen]

40. I think you highlighted the wrong part

"I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made." B.H. Obama 7.26.2004"

If Clinton gets the nomination, I can vote for her. I forgave Kerry for getting it wrong on Iraq and a can forgive Clinton too. But Obama has demonstrated better judgment and that's why I'm supporting him.

[The_Casual_Observer]

46. Making a statement in 2004 that the case was not made sounds

like great judgment to me too. Did I tell you who won the Superbowl two years ago?

[Drunken Irishman]

51. Want something earlier, here's his speech at an anti-war protest in 2002.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech

[The_Casual_Observer]

53. Then you would have thought he would have made up his mind by 2004

wouldn't you? Decisions, Decisions!

[Drunken Irishman]

60. He obviously did, since he said there was no justification, eh?

[CyberPieHole]

64. Except he said he doesn't know what hew would have done...

[Drunken Irishman]

65. And you're taking 3 words over years of statements and quotes.

I'll go with the latter, thank you very much.

[The_Casual_Observer]

67. A simple "I'd have voted against it" would have been a little more

convincing than "I don't know" to me. However I'm not a cult follower.

[Drunken Irishman]

69. Sweet, we have something in common!

I don't follow cults, either! :)

:toast:

And I'll take his years of speaking against the war over 3 little words.

[The_Casual_Observer]

73. Then where did those three words come from? I'll bet if somebody

asked you how you would have voted about bush or Iraq or whatever, you wouldn't say I don't know. Not even if you were anesthetized. Seems that "14 little words" was a Bush calling card for quite a while.

[Drunken Irishman]

75. I have a question for you.

Why are you focusing on just those 3 words? I can understand if Obama came out and said he supported the war and then later said he didn't, because that would be a huge flip-flop. But here are 3 words, "I don't know" that were placed right before a statement where he clearly says the case was not made. Now knowing the fact Obama spoke out against the war in 2002, when it was supported by over 70% of the American public and knowing he's said as much over the years, why do you give those 3 words more weight than every other?

See, to me, and maybe I'm bias here, but it appears you're just grasping at straws. Trying to make an issue out of something that obviously isn't there. For all I know, Obama sounds like he stated he didn't know the intelligence provided to the senate, but from what he had saw, it was not justified. If that's what he said, and you and I can both agree that's reasonable to expect from that comment, then he really isn't wrong. And those 3 words are pretty much just as insignificant as they really should be.

But that's just my take. :)

[The_Casual_Observer]

76. Never saw that quote before right now. It just sort of sums up the

what I've been noticing for a while about Obama, these "no votes" & "you can't catch me" non-specifics.

[Drunken Irishman]

77. But he gave a specific answer right after the quote.

Which seems to be glossed over by a few here. Maybe the "I don't know" was a dumb answer, but he didn't leave it at that. He essentially stated the case was not made. That's my point, if we're going to focus on this quote, we should at least focus on the last part of it, as well. Because I think, in context, it doesn't appear Obama is saying he doesn't know.

[The_Casual_Observer]

78. But now we're right back to the "vantage point of 2004" thing.

Maybe we should just say he was having a bad day & leave it at that.

[CyberPieHole]

54. yeah, it's always so much easier to take sides AFTER the deal is done...

but very much like Obama to skirt issues.

[The_Casual_Observer]

55. He snuck in another "no vote" - a "you can't catch me!"

[abburdlen]

59. You know he was opposed to the war

back in 2002.

Clinton's vote for the IWR was bad and trying to somehow make Obama into a flip flopper isn't going to negate the issue for Clinton. She voted Yea while he was speaking out against it.
Her supporters are better off following her lead and move the discussion over to how we're going to move forward.

[CyberPieHole]

62. He was "opposed" to a war he has been funding?

How does that work?

[JAbuchan08]

82. so is Hillary. She opposes the war yet votes to fund it

Hypocrisy thy name is Hillary.

The best reason not to vote for her opponents is that their records are *almost* as bad as her. At least her self serving calculations are consistent though....

[The_Casual_Observer]

63. Then why couldn't a simple "I'd have voted against it" suffice?

No matter what you say, that thing isn't good & you know it.

[cooolandrew]

72. In all fairness under huge public pressure I guess he wouldn't know but nonetheless he didn't have..

...to and spoek against that is historical record however way you look at it.

[ErnestoG]

79. Coulda Woulda Shoulda bullshit, again

I love how the Hillarites have to use subjunctive defense tactics to attack Obama. Well, he can use what Hillary actually SAID and DID, which goes alot further.

[CyberPieHole]

86. He said he didn't know...the Obamanations don't know how to read or are disingenuous.

The bullshit is coming your side.

[krkaufman]

84. Any reasoning person recognizes Obama's comment as being honest and genuine.

Given entirely different circumstances, NO ONE can ever say how they would act. However, Obama clearly stated, as you fairly included, from his "vantage point the case was not made."

The judgement and leadership of politicians like Al Gore, Howard Dean and Barack Obama were demonstrated through the only vote they had at the time, by publicly speaking out against the resolution. The fact that none were in a position to cast an actual vote on the resolution does not diminish their leadership in any way.

The judgement of those voting in support of the resolution remains in question, but their leadership is not.

[Harkpark]

85. Just being honest maybe

But he sure not need to say that ....
If you want make big deal out of it cool
Facts is 1) he again war from begining
2) Lucky him not having to vote

So me see that as an honest reply haha

[CyberPieHole]

87. True dat.

or 1)notz.

[Harkpark]

89. What you not agreed with point 1

Aaaah ok your choice

Truth out there

[CyberPieHole]

91. Naah I not agree wit point 1 but the rests of your post iz cool.

Welcome to DU.:hi:

[Harkpark]

97. Hehehe

:hug:

It is ok. We see what we want. Our eyes and brain.
Me see clip on youtube so me cool

But me say keep eye on ball
Important for Dem to win this Nov
Need change new direction
This road bad
Stich in time save nine

[anamandujano]

98. It bothers me that the bots allow him to be an apologist for Kerry

and yet think it's fine that he keeps attacking Hillary on the issue. Campaigning or not campaigning, he is clearly being inconsistent.

Where's the integrity?

[krkaufman]

101. For the archives... Hillary Clinton didn't read the Iraq NIE before voting for war.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10782562

At both debates, CNN's Wolf Blitzer asked the candidates whether they read the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq in 2003. A new book about Sen. Hillary Clinton says she did not read the NIE, a document so highly classified that even her senior staff did not have access to it at the time.

Blitzer asked Clinton on Sunday whether she regretted not having read it.

"Wolf, I was thoroughly briefed," Clinton said. "I knew all the arguments. I knew all of what the Defense Department, the CIA, the State Department were all saying. And I sought dissenting opinions, as well as talking to people in previous administrations and outside experts."

How could she "know all the arguments" if she nor any of her staff had read the Iraq NIE? As Mick would say... Dance, little sister, dance...!

One can speculate on what a Sen. Obama *might* have done had he been in the Senate to vote on the Iraq resolution, but the facts remain... Obama was outspoken against the war, while Sen. Hillary Clinton voted to support the war without the due diligence owed.

Thanks for the effort, Sen. Clinton.