I'm ready to declare that I will definitely vote for the nominee, Clinton or Obama.

[More Than A Feeling]

After observing the debates, I have concluded that there is no way either Clinton or Obama could back away from the policies that they have espoused thus far in the general election. For that, much of the credit goes to my boy Johnny E. His bold, progressive policies have inhabited the brains of the other candidates via osmosis, and the transplant appears to be long-lasting. I'm sure Edwards would want me to vote for the nominee as well.

Furthermore, there is no reason for them to back away. Triangulation is not only not possible, its unnecessary in this political climate. It's a defensive rearguard action that was a response to Republican domination. Democrats are not on the defensive in 2008. I would suggest that the Republicans are far more guilty of it this time around. That's why their base is so disgusted. There isn't a pure conservative in the bunch, whereas both Obama and Clinton, style and corporate ties aside, could be fairly characterized as proud liberals.

Instead, we can fairly expect that Democrats will focus on pinning the failed Republican policies of the past seven years on McCain or Romney, rather than Sistah Souljah'ing us, their base. This is not to their credit, but to ours. We have become too numerous, too well-connected, and too important a source of campaign funds to ignore or belittle. This is another source of my hope. We are not going away, and nor will our money. We have a well-demonstrated taste for primaries, with a fair amount of success, and that isn't going away either. There is nothing to stop us from recruiting even a presidential primary challenger to a sitting Democratic president, to force a return to the left in the event of post-election base betrayal.

It is this last alternative that I would urge on those who are less sanguine than myself about Clinton or Obama, rather than refusing them your vote. By giving them your vote, you are binding them to represent you, and creating a claim upon their loyalty. If they do not satisfy that claim, they owe you a debt which can only be satisfied by voting and funding for their rival. But if that claim is never made upon them, and they win anyway, why then, what have they to fear? Take comfort in the motto, "More and Better Democrats!" The more comes when we regain the presidency from a Republican, the better comes in the primaries, and when we replace a sitting democratic president, with an even more loyal and wise alternative.

If what I have written moves you, if you feel as I feel, then we can look forward to a happy, successful, and united progressive movement that I have great confidence cannot be stopped by a worn out, failed conservative movement. This election is only the beginning, but it is still a beginning. That means that happier progressive days are surely ahead, and our country and planet can be healed, if we stick together.

[vi5]

1. I can't get past Kyl-Lieberman....

...honestly this is my big sticking point especially with regard to Clinton. It's bad enough that she won't admit that her war vote was wrong, but to fall for the same gambit AGAIN is just telling to me. Yes, I've heard the spin and the rationalization and all the other excuses on this but the fact is that either she was gullible enough to fall for the same trick she fell for on Iraq AGAIN, or she knew it was bunk but made a military decision based on her own political expediency.

Either way I just can't get behind this.

And no it's not an ednorsement of Obama. His middle of the road maneuvering on this isn't all that much better to me, it's just not as blatant as Clinton's.

[More Than A Feeling]

2. You don't have to. I haven't forgiven her either.

Nor, to make it plain, does anyone have to forgive Obama his ex-gay ties. I haven't forgiven him that, either. Someday, making such a vote, and having those ties, will be instant political death among the majority, not just we activists. I long for that day, but it is not this day. We do what we can with what we have now, and plan and work for better representatives, and a better democracy in the future.

[vi5]

3. I'm just tired of hearing "trust us".

I'm not falling for it any more. I'm not saying 10 months in advance what I definitely will or won't do come November. But I'm also not going to commit to voting yet again for someone who I have massive, massive issues with in the hopes that they're going to do the right thing for the country when time and time and time and time and time again I get kicked in the teeth by doing so. I'm done with it.

I'm not voting in the primary, period, for either candidate. Neither has earned my support or vote I"m afraid (I'm sure they'll each get over it). I can see myself being convinced to vote for Obama in the GE but I honestly can't say that about Clinton.

[More Than A Feeling]

4. Don't trust them. Trust yourself, and your fellows in the progressive movement.

As I said, we are not going to stop holding either accountable. Being merely a slight improvement over Republicans is not enough: We demand freedom, security, and opportunity for all Americans. And we shall have it, from Clinton or Obama, or from their successor, if they fail to satisfy.

[Zenlitened]

11. Well said.

Don't trust them. Trust yourself, and your fellows in the progressive movement.

Not a cult, but a cooperative project. Backing a candidate does not mean we surrender our own responsibilities to them. It means we've hired them to do a job, and we'll continue to supervise their performance to make sure they're getting the job done.

K&R for a spot-on OP and thread.

[More Than A Feeling]

12. That's exactly how I feel: we build together.

Thank you for reading, kicking, and recommending!

[Meshuga]

5. After watching the debates I am also comfortable with both candidates

Nicely put as usual, H&E! :thumbsup:

I will judge them by how they perform in office. Four years of McCain scares the shit out of me and giving McCain a chance to win in November by not going to vote or by voting green is plain STUPID!

On Edit: I recommended this thread BTW.

[More Than A Feeling]

6. Thank you kindly, MrWiggles! n/t

[shenmue]

7. I will too.

I support my candidate, but I have respect for the other one as well, and I will not stand to see America stuck with the same party again. Thanks for a good post. :patriot:

[More Than A Feeling]

8. That's great to hear, and thank you for reading! n/t

[Serial Mom]

9. We all have to, in order to preserve better court appointees!

No matter who is the nominee, we all have to consider that in the next 4-5 years, 2 or 3 Supreme Court justices may retire.

And think of all the Federal lower court appointees we need to have appointed by a NON RWer!!

Otherwise it is bye to the Bills of Rights!

[More Than A Feeling]

10. Hope that Kennedy or one of the conservatives are among them.

Or else the appointees a Democratic president would make will merely be treading water, as the Court continues to overrule fundamentally progressive precedents without saying that that is what they are doing.