The nomination's simply come down to this: Hillary supported Bush's war of choice; Obama opposed it

[Unsane]

Which is EXACTLY what it should be coming down to. BO showed foresight and leadership, while Hillary sided with Bush. FACTS

[Maddy McCall]

1. I'm looking at an assortment of issues that really matter.

This is ONE of them. It's an important ONE. But it's not the ONLY ONE.

[Unsane]

4. It's the most important issue of our time.

[emilyg]

23. So is feeding my family.

[TexasObserver]

32. Likewise. I'm more concerned about going forward.

I think Hillary has followed instead of led on Iraq every step of the way, including up through this campaign. Yes, she blew it on the IWR vote, but so did a lot of Democrats. When they caved in fall 2002, I knew we were done. Bush and Rove had put them on ropes with the Peace Party label, and most Democrats decided they would not risk being seen as anti war a year after 9-11. Kerry and Edwards both voted wrong, too.

I'm not really concerned that she doesn't apologize for the vote, either. I am concerned that she's far too chummy with the same people Bush is chummy with, that she seems to have fallen into the rut of not making waves on Iraq, and lacks commitment about really putting a stop to it. She's had to be pulled every step of the way, and that ain't good.

[IndianaJones]

2. if you start enough threads on it...you may start to believe that. nt.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. Kick!

For the insane. :kick:

[Clintonite]

5. Surley we aren't that stupid.

[tekisui]

6. Well, didn't we know it would come down to this?

They are very close in positions, platforms and voting history. They differ a few places. Mainly, style, appeal and the IWR vote(and Kyl-Lieberman).

That is it in a nutshell.

Obama has the edge.

[Captain Hilts]

7. In casting her vote she EXPLICITLY warned against pre-emptive war AND removing Hussein. nt

[Metric System]

8. He wasn't even in the Senate at the time. I think this argument would be fair only if he had been.

[Barack_America]

9. She will not admit that it was a mistake.

I think that has become the bigger issue.

[CreekDog]

10. Biggest decision of her career was voting to authorize that war

Probably biggest mistake in decades. Yeah, I would say it's relevant to consider.

What is more important than that? A health care mandate? Positions on illegals' driver licenses? Get real.

The war is the big deal and though we can't undo that vote, we certainly can question the judgement of those who voted to authorize it.

[Unsane]

Yep. The Iraq War has changed the trajectory of this country.

And she fucking blew it.

[Barack_America]

11. It may have gotten her another term in the Senate...

But it very well sink her bid for the White House.

She seems to be very goal-oriented, focused only on achieving the next step. It's like the campaign tactics she has now chosen to use. If she gets the nomination, they very well may sink her in the GE, because she's disenfranchising blacks, youths, etc. But right now, all she can think of is the nomination. And she must sink Obama to win the nomination, so these tactics are justified.

[CreekDog]

12. Well, I think HRC THOUGHT the vote was necessary to win the White House

It turns out to have been a liability politically and since it was a bad decision, for once the fates are seem to be treating her fairly by not rewarding her bad decision.

[Barack_America]

17. That could be.

It was almost certainly necessary to secure a second Senate term, which was necessary to eventually win the WH.

In any case, I agree. She made this decision for her own political gain, and I'm glad that it backfired. But the said thing is, that all she really needed to do was to admit that it was a mistake.

She couldn't do it. Strikes 2 and 3.

[CreekDog]

20. I agree but her advisors probably told her that if she said "mistake"

It would be in ads over and over until November, if she made it that far.

The alternative is that she really doesn't believe she made a mistake and as president wants the same authority that she gave to George W. Bush. That's exactly not the lesson she should have taken from the Iraq War. The lesson should be that they should be a check on executive power because it's so dangerous when used wrongly. It bothers me that she won't admit it's a mistake not because of honesty but because it was truly a mistaken position and I want a president that believes it was a mistake and that opposing it from the start was the proper thing to do.

[kerstin]

29. I think you're right. She's afraid of looking like a "flip-flopper."

(Or her advisers are anyway.)

[CreekDog]

30. Thanks for the thoughts

Nice to have an actual conversation on here. :pals:

[kerstin]

31. I had someone respond "bullsquish" to me in another thread

for stating a neutral point of fact.

I wonder if that's any relation to "bat squeeze"?!

(I thought about letting him know he can cuss for real around here but didn’t want to give him any ammunition!)

Cheers, matey. :toast:

[jasmine621]

13. Obama wasn't in the Senate to vote. Bottom line. nt

[Unsane]

14. He spoke out against it at the time, when it was politically unpopular. BOTTOMLINE.

The sign of a true leader.

[Whisp]

15. that's how I see it.

Hillary did not come off looking good tonight. no matter what CNN says.

Obama pwned her.

[dailykoff]

16. It'll cost her one race. It cost a million Iraqis their lives.

But what's a few dead Mulsims when there's a chance to get back in the limelight?

[Barack_America]

18. Indeed. Thanks for mentioning that. n/t

[Unsane]

33. Thanks for remembering them. God bless.

[Auntie Bush]

19. What about health care? That doesn't matter?

[Yossariant]

21. Wrong. It's not even the second concern for voters.

It's been trumped by the economy and healthcare, and often immigration, for a while now.

Do your homework BEFORE you post, please.

I haven't been here very long, but I am very surprised at the amount of misinformation in this forum.

[emilyg]

24. Thank you.

[emilyg]

22. I don't vote on one issue only.

[suston96]

25. No it hasn't. Read what the people say: it's the economy and health care...stupid!

Listen to your candidate. It's not about the past. It's about the future. But feel free to tell him he is full of shit and that he should dwell on the past.

Ask him about Rezco. Ask him to post all his Campaign Finance statements back to his Illinois political career through the US Senate election.

Go ahead. Make my day....ask!

[dailykoff]

26. We're talking about the Democratic primary, not the general.

She's toast and she should be.

[suston96]

27. Yeah, the Democratic Primary which your candidate says is about the future and not...

...about how or why 77 senators voted for a resolution to use force if diplomacy and inspectors failed.

The entire galaxy knows that Bush lied to everyone to start a personal war and fabricated intelligence to convince the Congress to get that resolution.

It was not a blank check. That is language used by those who cannot find solid support for their candidate.

[sandnsea]

28. 4 years of support

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4327894&mesg_id=4327894