What are the minimum qualifications to be president?

[MagsDem]

Or are there simply none? I am wondering, because you'd think there would be some, besides being able to make a good speech, but we seem to be going down the same road republicans did when they nominated George Bush. They put a guy in office that was wholly unqualified for the job, and the country has suffered since that day as a result.

I was speaking with an Obama supporter yesterday, and when I told him that I did not think Obama was qualified he asked why. I pointed out that his only federal campaign experience was against Alan Keyes, who couldn't be elected dog catcher in Illinois, and that Obama's only federal office had been as a senator since 2005 -- that he wasn't even halfway into his first term.

This person was shocked beyond belief. He had assumed that Obama had much more experience, and that put an end to his support for Obama. The country should have learned the lesson of an unqualified president. And I think the rethugs will make a huge issue of his lack of experience if he is nominated. It will be how they take the factor of McCain's age and spin it to their advantage. And when people find out that Obama has little to no experience that would qualify him for president it will be President McCain who we are looking at.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that if Obama was white most of you on DU would not even be considering him given such a lack of experience. He doesn't have the campaign experience to win, and he doesn't have the job experience even if some miracle happened and he did win.

Leave it to the democratic party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This is the first election in 8 yrs where we actually have a good chance of taking the presidency. But not going to happen if we put up, as our candidate, the first black man, who also happens to lack a credible experience to qualify for the job. He was asked to wait until he had at least one term as senator under his belt, but his ego just wouldn't allow it. Now the media has sucked you in, and because of it we will lose again.

It's almost enough to make one renounce politics for good. It's been hard to be a democrat for many years because our representatives in congress have kow towed to the rethugs, and just generally acted spineless. If we're going to be stupid too, well it may just be time to throw in the towel for good.

[backscatter712]

1. The Constitution's quite clear on this.

Article II, Section 1

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States."

Amendment XXII

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once."

[MagsDem]

3. That's about eligibility, not qualifications

Try again.

[backscatter712]

28. Qualifications:

Enough skill, experience and talent (or money and chutzpah) to convince a majority of participating citizens to vote for you.

The Constitution leaves that part fuzzy.

[MagsDem]

Well then Bush was over qualified, would you say?

No, I don't think you would say that. You know that statement you posted is bullshit. But you want Obama, because he is a fairy tale. So you check your brain at the door.

[backscatter712]

70. Bush is technically qualified.

We both know he's a horrible President.

Like I mentioned later, qualifications are fuzzy. Abraham Lincoln had very little experience, but he's remembered as one of our greatest Presidents. At the same time, Cheney and Rumsfeld have longer resumes than anyone in DC, I'd say they're better suited for a prison cell than the White House or the Pentagon.

Oh, and can we have this discussion without insults?

[rjones2818]

38. Actually,

that's qualifications too!

[NightWatcher]

4. yep, 35 and born here

I get kinda nervous with Bill wanting to get back in the WH, he already had his turn

[MagsDem]

25. You also need a dictionary

You too, are confused between the words eligibility and qualifications.

[Occam Bandage]

27. You might want to actually read that dictionary before you keep embarrassing yourself.

[MagsDem]

44. Just for you then:

Qualifications: A quality, ability, or accomplishment that makes a person suitable for a particular position or task. 3 a: a quality or skill that fits a person (as for an office) <the applicant with the best qualifications>


Eligible: permitted under the rules

[jakem]

8. can we make one more little amendment?

'No moranic, secret-drunk, born-again but still sinnin', hypocritical, draft-dodging, oil-money perverts"

[NightWatcher]

11. nope, that part is up to us, the voters to keep that from happening

[jakem]

34. have we not yet proved that this democracy thing isnt working out so well?

i mean, i like the idea of it... but it doesnt have enough experience. it has not been vetted.

maybe in 400 or 800 years.

[MagsDem]

37. We have more media than we do democracy

I think the media can give democracy a kick in the ass. Obama is a fairy tale created by the media. He'd be laughed off the stage and given no press attention whatsoever if he was white. Or if the media pointed out his thinner than thin resume.

[jakem]

43. aw thats a bunch of crap.

the media does what people let it. it plays to a disinterested and uninformed public.


Obama is succeeding because he cuts through some of the bullshit that has turned so many people off of politics.

[MagsDem]

51. I don't see that

What I see is a guy that is completely unqualified to be president. A difference in ideology didn't cause 911 or a failure to find Obama, or huge deficits, or many other problems this country faces. Incompetence caused that.

Obama has no demonstrated competence in anything other than being able to deliver a speech well that was written my someone else. He gets his butt kicked in every debate, his judgement is certainly questionable. He hasn't ever run against a credible opponent. But we are going to hand our chance at the presidency over to him? Because he makes good speeches? I can't see it.

[jakem]

54. exactly it.

i think it is a problem of 'vision'

this pretty well sums it up:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4310277&mesg_id=4310277

[MagsDem]

59. Anyone can have a vision, and there is nothing special ....

about his. In fact most of his "issue position" have been part of the democratic platform for decades. He has no demonstrated competence in being able to enact the same damn vision we have been hearing about forever.

[jakem]

64. i disagree

his community organizing, and his campaign organization disprove this.


While his senate qualifications are good, they are not stellar. face it, few are. it is not a political body that is built for stellar performances.

i trust he has what this country truly needs, whether it knows it or not.

[MagsDem]

68. Your trust = blind faith

And that is what Obama supporters are going on.... blind faith. He is the worst possible candidate in the race, other than Mike Gravel. Our base is setting us up for another fall. As fucking usual.

[jakem]

74. bullshit. the quality of the candidate is central.

Clintons invented 35 years don't make her a better candidate.

Her political and financial ties make her ethically suspect.

Her political manipulations are nauseating.


Ill take a good organizer with a vision over a crony any day.

America needs a break.

[MagsDem]

77. Obama is just as much a crony as well

You must live in political fairy tale land.

He doesn't take PAC money, right? Except he's raised 4.5 million of it for other candidates. $350K just for Joe Lieberman alone.
He doesn't take lobbyists money, you think? But they bundle it for him just like every other candidate. Where do you think he gets all that money? He doesn't have crony's on the side? No, just writes letter so slumlords can get money, and does sweetheart land deals with them. That's NOT political manipulation? Dissing Clinton for her Iran vote and not mentioning that he didn't even show up to make a vote on that is not political manipulation?
He's a "community organizer" huh? How many community organizers do you know that live in 2 million dollar homes? I've never met one that did. Nor do most senators.

Stop living in la la land. Enough with the holier than thou stuff. This is politics in America. He is no innocent.

[jakem]

81. not saying he is perfect, just better.

the jesus meme is the fantasy, and one that only HRC followers are promoting.


I dont believe in innocents in politics. But i do think he has an ethical backbone that HRC does not.

Dont get mad because he is playing the game too.

[MagsDem]

88. Really? Show me a letter she has written for a slumlord

Chicago politics is about as slimy as you get, and when the media strips of the teflon the rethugs are going to eat him for lunch.

[jakem]

90. ok, i am going to go back to my life now...

lets just agree that i am not going to agree with anything you have said, or are about to say...

[MagsDem]

95. Well of course, as soon as I ask for an example....

You claim Hillary is some kind of crook, but like the right wing and the media for 8 yrs when Bill was president, you can't present a proof, or even an example. The right wing has infected the left with their irrational hatred of all things Clinton. It's pathetic.

[Occam Bandage]

2. 35 years old, born in America, lived here for 14 years, elected to the office.

[MagsDem]

7. Eligibility does NOT equal qualifications

Is that the problem here? Are we really dealing with people so simple minded they don't even understand the concept of being qualified to be POTUS?

[Occam Bandage]

10. You asked what the minimum qualifications were. That's what they are. You didn't ask

what the optimal qualifications were.

[MagsDem]

15. I think you need a dictionary

Those are not qualifications. That is what you need to be eligible to run. You might want to look both words up in the dictionary. They are not the same thing.

[Occam Bandage]

20. "A condition or circumstance that must be met or complied with."

Example: fulfilled the qualifications for registering to vote in the presidential election.
(American Heritage Dictionary)

Don't tell people to consult a dictionary before you do so yourself.

[MagsDem]

47. Bzzzt.... try again

Qualifications: A quality, ability, or accomplishment that makes a person suitable for a particular position or task. 3 a: a quality or skill that fits a person (as for an office) <the applicant with the best qualifications>


Eligible: permitted under the rules

[Occam Bandage]

89. You pick one definition, I pick another.

[MagsDem]

97. Reality has a liberal bias

... so I'll go with mine, the actual definitions straight from the dictionary. ;)

[John Q. Citizen]

32. There are no qualifications except as specified in the constitution. It doesn't matter

if your husband used to be the president or not. It doesn't matter if you voted for an unnecessary war against a defenseless country that sits on a shitload of oil. It doesn't matter if you have the blood of a million Iraqis on your hands or not, or if you used to be a Republican but are now registered as a Democrat.

It doesn't matter if your big campaign issue is you keep saying over and over how qualified you are.

So no. There are no qualifications to be President.

Got it?

Good!

[MagsDem]

49. Got it -- Obama supporters say you don't have to be qualified to be President

Thank you so much for clearing that up. It explains a lot!

[John Q. Citizen]

60. Everyone says it, not just Obama voters, If experience matters so

much, then McCain is a lock where you live. He's got far and away more experience than either Hill or Obama.

And if Hill wins the nomination, that's who you will get. McCain. So if that's fine with you, vote for Clinton in the primary, and we can get McCain for president.

Here's why:

All those peace activists in the urban areas aren't going to get up and elect a hawk.

The black vote will be animic for Hill.

Hill doesn't do too well with independents. But McCain does well with them. Also, the independents who voted Democratic in 06 realise they got burned, and they aren't going to show up to vote for a hawk.

The evangelicals will come out to vote against Hill. She energizes them far and away more than McCain does.

So remember, winning the battle doesn't equal winning the war.

[MagsDem]

65. I don't vote in rethug primaries

I vote in democratic primaries. I think a black guy will energize rethugs just as much as Hillary will. Most posters on DU are naive to the bigotry against blacks. Latinos will vote for Hillary as will women in droves. Obama will get the normal dem share of women, but he will not get the latino vote at all. That will go to McCain.

So, given that the media has made sure my only two choices will energize the right wing against us, I am back to the experience. He has none.

[rjones2818]

41. No...you don't understand...

Since the Constitution does no list any qualifications, the Natural born citizen, lived 14 years in the country and 35 when taking office are the qualifications.

DUH!

:banghead:

[rjones2818]

46. Which means Constitutionally that

anyone who meets those standards is qualified to be president. Period. Founders gave us lots of leeway on how to fuck ourselves over or take care of ourselves.

[Cant trust em]

5. I don't think it's a secret

that Obama doesn't have a lot of experience. I always thought that most people were hammering this.

[MagsDem]

12. Maybe on DU, but not the people I talk to in real life

I will admit, Clinton pretty much has a lock where I live. But when I do speak to Obama supporters most are completely unware of the fact that he does not have much of any experience. This will be hugely exploited by rethugs, I am sure of it.

[Kittycat]

23. OHHH - so we ignore his work in IL. Great, then we can Ignore much of HRCs work as well.

Starting with her time in the white house being first lady, not the president.

[MagsDem]

30. He doesn't even have much experience in Illinois

You realize that, right? And do you forget the aspect of being able to run a winning campaign. This is exactly what I said when Kerry ran. Kerry had never faced a credible opponent in MA. He did not know how to run a campaign. But hey, we nominated him anyway. That time it was because he was a 'war hero' -- this time it's the black guy.

It's like we prefer to nominate myths and fairy tales, rather than a credible candidate. And it's why we don't win. This time will be the same.

[Occam Bandage]

33. If he beats the übercompetent Clinton campaign machine, I think it'll prove he's capable at that.

[MagsDem]

53. Well the super Tuesday polls show that has a long shot

Thank goodness.

[Orangepeel]

72. well, *that's* silly

If Clinton can't beat Obama in the primary, then she's not a better campaigner. If she can't beat him, given how "unqualified" you think he is, he must be doing something right.

I supported Edwards, who had the best message, but not the best campaign. If Obama can pull it out, more power to him.

[MagsDem]

83. I think she can beat him and will

But Obama has a definite advantage beacause the media wants the fight to be against the first woman and the first black man. Obama is a media creation, and had he been white he would have been laughed off the stage by now.

[Cant trust em]

31. This is what Bill Clinton's been commenting about.

I guess your experiences have been different than mine but I thought that with his age and his youthful look more people would assume that he was inexperienced. I figured that the Clintons had been pushing this pretty hard.

That being said, here's an interesting article I found. It's exit poll data about what values Republicans and Democrats indicated they were looking for in a candidate. Here is the Reader's Digest version.

Republicans say - Top candidate quality: shares my values 37%, has the right experience 30%,
Democrats say - Top candidate quality: bring about needed change 50%, has the right experience 21%

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/29/early_exit_polls_change_vs_exp_1.html

[backscatter712]

26. Cheney & Rumsfeld have more experience than almost anyone else in the Beltway.

Those two have been playing the game since the 70's. That doesn't make them decent leaders...

[Cant trust em]

35. I love that talking point

to me, that one is a knock it out of the park statement. Experience don't mean shizzle.

[lurky]

6. "natural born"

No C-Sections or In-vitro babies?
:evilgrin:

[no name no slogan]

13. Or hatched from space alien eggs

which is why Schwarzenegger is disqualified.

[lurky]

19. So that's why he's not running!

:rofl:

[stray cat]

9. you never even have to have shown competency in anything

[lurky]

14. Should there be a civil service exam?

Like they give to cops and firefighters? That would be funny if their answers were made public!

[MagsDem]

17. You do to get my vote

And I hardly think I am alone in this.

[TwilightGardener]

16. Did you ever read a post that had so many overwhelmingly stupid points, you

don't know where to begin? That's where I'm at here. Oh wait, I'll take on one point: "He was asked to wait" to run for President--by whom, the Czar of Presidential Elections? By Hillary and Bill? WTF? He can do whatever the fuck he wants--what does that have to do with anything? If he wasn't a good candidate, he would have washed out months ago. Instead, he's raised almost as much money as Hillary and is within striking distance of the nomination--hee hee!

[MagsDem]

22. By the democratic establishment....

... and by the way, he gave his word that he would. He broke his word, obviously. I'm not sure why some are all gung ho for a person that simply cannot keep their word. It's another mystery.

And I am sorry, but it's absurd to say "If he wasn't a good candidate, he would have washed out months ago" -- he is a media creation.

But you are avoiding the question... and I suspect that will be the case for everyone that supports Obama. Because you know, in your heart, he does not have the experience or qualifications to president. You are caught up in your media creation and you don't want to use logic or reason.

I tend to think cooler heads will prevail, and he will not be our nominee. And if he is, he will undoubtedly lose. It's pretty sad that we will be throwing away our best chance of the presidency.

[TwilightGardener]

42. First of all, I don't give a rat's ass about what the Dem establishment wants--

second, Ted Kennedy encouraged him to run in '08, so apparently there is some discord in the Dem establishment even if what you say is true. Third, don't even TRY to project your opinion about him onto me ("you know in your heart...", "you are caught up in the media creation...")--it's silly and senseless.

[MagsDem]

56. He broke his word -- he is not a man of his word

Got it?

[TwilightGardener]

66. LOL! He PROOOOMMMMIIIISSSSEDDDD!! You sound like a whiny teenage girl.

[MagsDem]

79. He made a committment and he broke it.....

which makes him untrustworthy as far as I am concerned. Hillary made the same promise to her constituents when she ran for her first term as senator and she kept it.

[TwilightGardener]

92. When you see a chance, take it. He changed his mind. And I'm grateful he did.

[MagsDem]

98. I prefer a candidate that can be trusted to do what he pledges

[gravity]

45. Ted Kennedy says Obama is qualified

And Ted Kennedy is more qualified than you

[DJ13]

18. He's got the BEST qualification of anyone running this year

He hasnt been in DC for years and years, and he's not beholden to major industry PACS like Hillary.

Couple that with a sharp mind, and a good sense of right from wrong (something the Clintons arent known for) and he's more qualified than you will ever admit.

[TexasObserver]

21. To paraphrase Keanu Reeves' character in parenthood

Any butt reaming asshole can be president. There are no qualifications, only getting the office assuming the constitutional requirements are met.

If Bush can be president, theoretically, anyone can be. If you picked someone with a lottery, you'd end up with a better president than Dubya.

[Clarkansas]

24. I would vote for inexperienced Abe Lincoln over experienced Dick Cheney

any day of the week. I have seen Hillary's "experience" in action, and I don't like much of it.

[MagsDem]

57. Obama is no Abe Lincoln

Abe Lincoln had 26 yrs experience as a legislator prior to running for president. Do you just parrot whatever the Obama camp tells you, or do you know how to think for yourself?

[Clarkansas]

91. 26 years as what specifically?

Do tell, genius.

[MagsDem]

96. You want me to write a Lincoln biography?

Try Wiki, it's your friend. However, if you really want to understand the history of that time and Lincoln's role in it I would recommend "A New Birth of Freedom: Abraham Lincoln and the Coming of the Civil War." It's excellent. :)

[Barack_America]

29. Yeah, when have we ever elected a guy with experience only in IL state legislature?

When have we ever elected a guy with experience in IL politics, but only a short period of experience and the national level?

Oh wait, we have....Abraham Lincoln.

Well no matter, he was a crap President anyway, right?

[MagsDem]

55. you don't know your history, do you?

He was elected to the Illinois state legislature in 1834, and president in 1860. Do the math, please.

[Barack_America]

73. Um, he ducked out of politics for a good chunk of time....

in that time period. You did know that, right?

[MagsDem]

85. Read a book, because now you just sound stupid

I mean really, to claim Obama has anywhere near the political experience Lincoln had when he ran for president is just absurd. Did the Obama people tell you to say that? Because I hear it a lot from Obama people. It makes you all look like you don't know anything about history. Give it a rest.

[Onlooker]

36. White, male, Christian, wealthy

At least that's a historical view

[MagsDem]

61. So black, male, Christian and wealthy....

Is all you're looking for? After Bush I am looking for experience.

[Onlooker]

63. No, I was simply answering the question ...

... But I like Obama only because he's run a far better campaign. The Clinton campaign has made lots of mistakes. The best campaign will win in November, not necessarily the best candidate.

[MagsDem]

71. He hasn't run a better campaign -- the media has coated him with teflon

And they will strip it away in a heartbeat if he gets to the general election.

[jakem]

39. apparently you need to be at least 5'7"

poor Kucinich...

[David Zephyr]

40. Only 2 requirements to be Prez: Your last name must be Bush or Clinton

Two requirements. That's it.

[anamandujano]

48. Since W, a pulse suffices. /nt

.

[MagsDem]

50. Apparently!

[OneStepBeyond]

52. Does it matter?

I'm not being fatalistic but if you look at this http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm it will be close not matter who the dem candidate will be. OK, yes I know polls are crap but this really makes my stomach turn. Here I was thinking that we were finally going to get rid of these idiots. With most of the country acknowledging that Bush is a loser and with all the Republican scandal and corruption, how on earth can this election be a close one?? I don't think I can take another Florida or Ohio and 4 more years of sh*t.

[CreekDog]

58. Well he would be qualified if he were First Lady for 8 years

apparently. ;)

[MagsDem]

62. He'd be qualified if he spent a bit more than 2.5 yrs working

in federal government. And yes, if my only other choice is someone that has spent 35 yrs working in government, I would take her over 2.5 yrs any day.

[CreekDog]

67. So I guess governors are not qualified, by your reasoning

like Bill Clinton was not qualified in 1992. correct?

[MagsDem]

80. Governors with experience are very qualified

Bill Clinton had been a governor for 12 yrs when he ran.

[CreekDog]

82. But you said federal government experience

based on that standard, he was not qualified.

and Obama has 8 years in the State Senate + 3 in the US. HRC has 7 in the US Senate.

[MagsDem]

101. You don't think Governors have experience with the federal ...

government???? Maybe that's the problem. Obama supporters just don't have a clue.

[CreekDog]

102. Ah, so you can't win an argument without lying about what I said

Nice comeback.

You said federal experience of which Hillary has 7 years. Bill Clinton had 11 years state government.

Obama had 3 years as a Senator and 8 years in state government thought not as governor.

I think 11 years, whether Bill's or Obama's is more than Hillary's 7 years.

Not that I'm making this decision on math alone.

I'm deciding because I don't think Hillary makes good decisions and I don't think she has good political instincts.

[Shine]

69. Is that REALLY true, that Obama was asked to wait until he'd had more experience under his belt??

:shrug: do you have evidence of that?

not being confrontational, just genuinely curious...

I'm an Edwards supporter who is undecided which one to vote for.

[MagsDem]

75. He admitted so on Meet the Press, where he publicly

stated he had no intention of running until after his first term as senator was completed. There are transcripts of those shows available. You'd have to find his appearance from (I think) his first appearance on the show. Naturally, he failed to keep his word on that. His word doesn't seem to mean much of anything to him.

Did you also know that he didn't even show up for the vote on Iran that he constantly criticizes Hillary for? That is another choice one that most Obama supporters don't know about.

[Shine]

87. Hmmmm...well everyone is entitled to change their mind, afterall

I pretty much take the word of most politicians with a HUGE grain of salt, Obama, Clinton, even Edwards, to a certain degree.

I was an Edwards supporter and I'm left disappointed HE didn't keep his word to ride it out til the convention...or hell, at least Super Tuesday.

I think cynicism is ugly, but it's hard to avoid in this day and age.... :(

[thoughtcrime1984]

76. Minimum of 8 years as First Lady

Right??

[MagsDem]

78. So you think she spent her time picking out China patterns?

Really? She has spent 35 yrs working for childrens issues, poverty, healthcare. She has spent 8 yrs in the senate alone. It's just not credible to claim she does not have vastly more experience than he does.

[scheming daemons]

93. My wife is a surgeon....

....does that mean that *I* am qualified to operate on you?

[MagsDem]

100. Well, to follow your analogy......

You'd have more experience than your gardner if you spent 35 yrs doing research for her and he didn't. :)

[radfringe]

84. in regard to reagan and mccain's the minimum qualification is

breathing

[JVS]

86. Wrestle Chuck Norris and win

[scheming daemons]

94. Ability to garner 50% + 1 delegates in the primary, and 270 electoral votes in the GE

that's it.

The ability to mobilize enough voters to win. That's the only skill necessary.

[MagsDem]

99. So, what you're saying is that incompetence is okay?

So you don't mind Bush's incompetence that caused 9/11, or his incompetence at catching bin laden, or his incompetence with the federal budget. Incompetence is fine with you, and you do not hesitate to support a candidate with no demonstrated competence in federal government?