A simple FACT being overlooked by BOTH candidates: Unless Healthcare is Free, it won't be Universal

[berni_mccoy]

I read on both Obama and Clinton sites that they will make healthcare available to all (no rejection policy) which is great. But they both talk about making it affordable. There are 40 million Americans in poverty and about as many without healthcare coverage. Unless healthcare if FREE, it's not going to be universal.

[joeybee12]

1. Are you saying free to everyone, or to a certain segment?

It ain't never gonna be free for everyone. Right now, there is the so-called "safety net" that covers the hardship cases, but while it's free care to those people, it isn't really free, because the costs are passed on to other taxpayers.

[berni_mccoy]

3. It should be payed for through Taxes, majority corporate taxes and the rest through income

No one should pay 'premiums' to a private insurance company designed to make a profit.

Do we pay premiums for police? Do we pay premiums for firefighters? Do we pay premiums for ambulances and paramedics?

[joeybee12]

7. True, but the systems for police and firefighters were never solely

created to make a profit, as were the insurance companies. We've let them get huge and powerful, and to try and change that overnight just ain't gonna happen. Below you say Hilary got it right in 1993, but I think she's learned that change never comes in such big, sweeping movements...they fought her tooth and nail over this. It's gonna happen slowly.

[berni_mccoy]

10. The LARGEST provider of Healthcare in the World is funded directly from taxes

Here's how you do it:

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service#Funding

The National Health Service (NHS) is the publicly funded health care system of England; it is a separate system from the other three national health systems operating in the United Kingdom which are responsible to their own devolved governments and have developed under differing legislation resulting in a variation of management and practice. All four services operate co-operatively without general discrimination toward citizens from each others' areas.
The NHS provides the majority of healthcare in England, including primary care (such as general practitioners), in-patient care, long-term healthcare, ophthalmology and dentistry (NHS dentistry is done by dentists in private practice doing sub-contracted work for the NHS). The National Health Service Act 1946 came into effect on 5 July 1948. Private health care has continued parallel to the NHS, paid for largely by private insurance, but it is used by less than 8% of the population, and generally as a top-up to NHS services.
The large majority of NHS services are provided free at the point of use to the patient and without further charge for in-hospital treatment and associated medication; other medicine might involve the prescription fee described below. The costs of running the NHS (est. £104 billion in 2007-8<1>) are met directly from general taxation.
The UK government department responsible for the NHS is the Department of Health, headed by a Secretary of State for Health (Health Secretary), who sits in the British Cabinet.
The NHS is the world's largest health service, and the world's third largest employerafter the Chinese army and the Indian railways.

[joeybee12]

12. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done, I'm saying you're trying to do this

in a political environment where there are politicians and their allies who will fight this now, like they did in 1993.

[berni_mccoy]

16. Your right. And it's even more reason for Unity and obtaining a Larger Majority in Congress

We won't do it until Dems control 2/3rd of Congress or until we have a Dem President powerful enough to push it through.

[UALRBSofL]

2. The way I interpreted it

Was Hillary wanted a mandated health care which meant universal health care. That's why the GOP candidates call it Hillarycare in a backhanded slap to her.

[berni_mccoy]

5. The term "Hillarycare" was coined on her first plan in the 90's when she actually got it right

Her plan now is much, much worse. As an example, look at Massachussetts forced healthcare system devised by Romney.

If you don't pay for insurance, you can be forced to pay a penalty.

Let's just pay for it through taxes and be done with it.

[jasmine621]

4. I think Hillary wants those over a certain income who can afford to pay

to pay. This would be a better selling point to the fiscal conservatives but in her plan it would be free to all at the poverty level and folks who like their insurance already and who can afford to pay will be able to keep their insurance.

[berni_mccoy]

6. No insurance company should receive premiums for providing coverage for health care.

Insurance companies are not necessary in a socialized healthcare system.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Yes yes yes!

Socialized medicine is the only way to go!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. but there are folks out there like me

who, if forced to buy health insurance will basically then have to choose whether to eat or pay rent to get by. I'm not at poverty level-just above it. I'm wondering if it is worth it to keep on working. Of course, with the economy tanking, I might not have to worry about my job much longer anyway.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. You got that right

I have no trouble using my tax dollars to pay for health care. I have a huge problem using my tax dollars to pay for Iraq.

That being said, I see both the Clinton and Obama plans as being nothing more than a windfall for the for-profit insurance companies. The other day at work I got a call from a health insurance salesman. Told her I wasn't interested. She said "Well, you are going to HAVE to get health insurance coverage soon whether you like it or not." I said I'd rather move to another country that has civilized rules about health insurance and hung up. But the smugness of her tone really set my blood boiling. So at least one segment of the insurance industry really thinks that, no matter who is elected, they will be able to force shoddy policies down people's throats.

[BootinUp]

13. No country has "Free" Healthcare.

ever heard of taxes?

[berni_mccoy]

15. That's exactly the solution that should be applied here (see several of my responses above)

No one should have to pay 'premiums' for coverage or to be healthy. Medical priority in this country is dictated by prices, not by medical necessity.

[TexasObserver]

14. Over half of bankruptcies for medical bills

When over half of all bankruptcies are caused by medicals bills that cannot be paid, one would think that would be sufficient evidence that many Americans cannot afford medical at any cost.

The Romney argument that "they can pay something" ignores the economics of those living in the bottom 20% of income. It's baby diapers and food, rent and electricity that these people must pay. It's blood thinners and bone medicines they must buy. You cannot ask the poorest to sacrifice more to fund universal medical.

People who can afford health insurance will have it because it will provide for better doctors, better hospitals, private or semi private rooms, or other such features the uninsured will not have.

Our health system is sick, and the reason it is sick is because the likes of the Hospital Corp of America have made the pure pursuit of profit the primary objective of 98% of the hospitals out there.