Fact checking Hillary's fact check on Obama's statements

[ProSense]

Obama:

"It is time for new leadership that understands the way to win a debate with John McCain or any Republican who is nominated is not by nominating someone who agreed with him on voting for the war in Iraq or who agreed with him in voting to give George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran, who agrees with him in embracing the Bush-Cheney policy of not talking to leaders we don't like, who actually differed with him by arguing for exceptions for torture before changing positions when the politics of the moment changed," Obama said.

Facts, Hillary on Iraq:

The senator described her philosophy about military power as one rooted in pragmatism. Regardless of the pressure from some liberals and antiwar Democrats, Mrs. Clinton said she was skeptical about embracing hard timetables and cutting off financing in Iraq, for instance, because they were not practically feasible.

“I am not for imposing a date — certain withdrawal date,” she said. “But don’t be mistaken, I am for ending this war as soon as possible.”

Clinton to Back Iraq Deadline
In Shift, Senator Supports Measure Setting Withdrawal Date

By Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 10, 2007; Page A07

A vote on the Democratic-sponsored Iraq resolution expected to hit the Senate floor next week will mark the first time Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) has embraced a legislative deadline for withdrawing from the war-torn nation, a step she has consistently resisted to this point.

<...>

But the stakes are higher for some senators than for others. Clinton, the front-runner for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, has carefully laid out her Iraq views in a series of formal plans and speeches and has repeatedly rejected setting a deadline for withdrawal. Yet when and if she casts her vote, those pronouncements will be somewhat eclipsed by the Senate's binding action. That fact touched off an unusual scramble in which even Senate leadership aides are attempting to characterize Clinton's position as consistent with her previous views.

Fact: Hillary voted for Kyl/Lieberman

Fact: Clinton backs off support for torture

Fact, from Hillary's site:

Hillary has been consistent on Cuba. She has always been in favor of maintaining the embargo. Last year she said the US policy toward Cuba would not change until Fidel made changes:

Claim from Hillary's site:

More Negative Mail From The Obama Campaign, Another Misleading Attack On Hillary

Yesterday, on NBC Today, Sen. Obama claimed that "throughout this campaign, the tone that I’ve set has been a positive one." Nevertheless, Sen. Obama is launching misleading attacks Hillary in another negative mail piece, being distributed in Connecticut:

Fact:

Clinton: Rice linked Iraq vote, inspections:

Following up on what Ambassador Richard Holbrooke told us earlier this week regarding Hillary Clinton's vote to authorize the use of military force against Iraq, we asked Sen. Clinton today if it was correct that Colin Powell had persuaded her that the resolution could be a vote to avoid war rather than a vote for war.

She replied: "No, it wasn't Colin Powell. it was Condi Rice. Condi Rice told me specifically when I was still weighing all of the evidence, and I had been to the White House one last time -- I think, if I'm not mistaken, it was Oct. 8 -- and I'd had the whole presentation by the CIA and others and I hadn't asked any questions, I had listened. And I went back to my office, and Condi Rice called me and said, You didn't ask any questions, do you have any questions? I said I only have one: Will you use this authorization to put inspectors back in, so that we can find out whether any of this is true, how much WMD he still has or has reconstituted? She said, Yes, that's what it's intended to do. I think Dick might have gotten confused."

[Island Blue]

1. K & R.

[politicasista]

2. K&R

:kick:

[Roland99]

3. Make it a hat trick (so far). K&R

[usregimechange]

4. Good job!

[jefferson_dem]

5. Ace job, ProSense!

Gold star for you!

[ProSense]

10. Thanks! n/t

[agdlp]

6. Fact checking by argumenting for Obamas arguments ?

?

[ErnestoG]

7. Good post.

Especially the part about Hillary never bothering to even read the intel about the war that case doubt on the existence of Iraqi WMD.

I thought I knew all about her ignanimous stances on the war, but this just busts the levee.

[agdlp]

8. Fact checking anti fact checking on HRC fact check on Obama statements

1. Ombama claims, "It is time for new leadership that understands the way to win a debate with John McCain "

Answer:
So you think flip-flopping on Cuba (by the way, is questionnaire, is off line now...wonder why), 9 absent votes on National Security issues in Senate will do? Or perhaps someone that is intimidated by Iran so we change our policy to not condemn a country sponsoring Terrorism for what the president might do. It was not a vote for war, and never will be.
Or perhaps is it one that says

" My plan also allows for a limited number of U.S troops to remain and prevent Iraq from becoming a haven for international terrorism and reduce the risk of all-out chaos. "

http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/ObamaIsrael_2.htm

2. talking to leaders we don't like

Answer:

Sen. Obama then misrepresents Hillary’s position on diplomacy. Hillary criticized Sen. Obama for pre-committing to a personal meeting in his first year with "with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea." She never said that a president should only meet with America's friends. She also promised vigorous diplomatic efforts with all countries, friend and foe.


3. Clinton backs off support for torture

Answer: Mabye you should read your copy and paste sources first..she said;

""If we're going to be preparing for the kind of improbable but possible eventuality, then it has to be done within the rule of law

She said then that the "ticking time bomb" scenario would be a narrow exception to her opposition to torture.

"In the event we were ever confronted with having to interrogate a detainee with knowledge of an imminent threat to millions of Americans, then the decision to depart from standard international practices must be made by the president, and the president must be held accountable,"

4.Hillary has been consistent on Cuba. She has always been in favor of maintaining the embargo. Last year she said the US policy toward Cuba would not change until Fidel made changes.

Answer:
if you read page 41
http://www.hd.net/transcripts/2007IowaBrownAndBlackForum_1.pdf

Well I think we are going to have that opportunity because I believe that when Fidel Castro finally does pass there will be a tremendous pent up desire on the part of the Cuban people for freedom and for democracy. Certainly if they were to make steps right now to recognize human rights, to release political prisoners there could be perhaps some reciprocal action taken by the United States but until there is some
recognition on the part of whoever is in charge of the Cuban government that they have to move towards democracy and freedom for the Cuban people it will be very difficult for us to change our policy. But I look forward as president to perhaps being there when that opportunity arises. You know it’s tragic that in the last seven years we’ve lost. ground in Latin America. We’ve lost it as more and more countries have moved away from democracy authoritarian even dictatorial rule. We see what’s happening in Venezuela with the big power grab going on by Chavez and I hope that when I’m
president we can get re-engaged and we pay more attention to Latin America and we start building relationships again. I think that’s important for us and important for the people of those countries.

MN: (1:26:44) Thank you just a very quick follow-up. You said that the US may have
soon an opportunity but Fidel Castro is very strong. And if he does last into 2008, in January of 2009 and beyond would you normalize relations with Cuba.

HC: (1:27:01) No. Not unless he made or whoever was then the head of government
in Cuba made significant changes in the way that they treated their own people and I think that has to be a precondition.

[agdlp]

9. Obama March 2, 2007: My plan allows for a imted number of troops to remain in Iraq

That is why I advocate a phased redeployment of U.S. troops out of Iraq to begin no later than May first with the goal of removing all combat forces from Iraq by March 2008.

In a civil war where no military solution exists, this redeployment remains our best leverage to pressure the Iraqi government to achieve the political settlement between its warring factions that can slow the bloodshed and promote stability.

My plan also allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain and prevent Iraq from becoming a haven for international terrorism and reduce the risk of all-out chaos.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/ObamaIsrael_2.htm

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But what is a limited number ?
What kind of forces ?
What kind of situations should US forces engage ?
How long should they be there ?