Now there are two choices. Help me decide.

[Andrea]

With John Edwards out of the race, there are two viable choices. Please post your reasons for your choice. If you choose number two, please indicate what country or countries you favor.

[MrCoffee]

1. Now that's a legitimate post-Edwards poll!

:rofl:

:applause:

[Levgreee]

2. Viva la revolution!

I have faith in Obama that he will try his hardest to change the sick state of politics, and of our country in general.

BUT, if he betrays that faith, I'll join you on the rooftops.

[OzarkDem]

3. Take a break

save your money. Enjoy your life and try not to be shocked when the Democratic Party Clown Car of 2008 finally lurches over the cliff.

If you're eligible for the draft, you may want to consider moving out of the country or going underground.

[K Gardner]

4. I'll try for revolution, but am keeping an open airline ticket to Italy just in case!

[Andrea]

5. I'm kicking this because

I really want some responses!

Come on everyone, what do you say?

[Dogmudgeon]

6. Revolution is so much fun!

Millions of people dead.

Death squads, right and left.

Massive destruction of our already crumbling infrastructure.

Environmental mega-damage.

100 years of political grudges.

Five million aging boomers pretending they're John Lennon.

Probable invasion from several of our "friends".

World financial disaster as the dollar becomes worthless.

Do you think The Eeevil Hillary or the Cult of Obama are any worse? I'll take messy, unsatisfying Democracy every time.

--p!

[Andrea]

9. All those things are objectionable

But do you think we will avoid them if we DON'T have a revolution?








(BTW, the faux John Lennons might be fun.)

[Yuugal]

14. Open your mind

Not every revolution has to be violent. IMHO we need a revolution in our party where the poor stay home and let the dem party leadership know they wont get away with any more corporate turds running for office. 4 more years of hell, but we have already been going downhill for 30 years. Then maybe we get a shot at someone who cares about those of us who are poor.

[tavalon]

36. And what if what yyou are actually seeing in this country,

is fascism in the guise of democracy. It won't be four years. Oh, shit, it really is going to suck if Nader really was prescient.

[bvar22]

38. A REVOLUTION has occurred in Venezuela,

and in several other South American countries over the last 10 years.
It has been bloodless and orderly (for the most part.)

[southern_belle]

7. Europe - perhaps Sweden or France n/t

[Andrea]

10. The Scandinavian countries

have strong civil liberties and good democracies. I'm not sure how they will fare when the polar ice cap melts, though.

I can't move to France because I feel silly speaking French.

I absolutely love Italy, but I would have to be apolitical if I moved there (there government is chaotic).

Canada seems a practical choice and the people are so nice.

Argentina is really intriguing. They have a great culture.

But, if I go with revolution, maybe I could get MY country back.

[cascadiance]

30. Canada's nice and close by... Australia or New Zealand sound nice!

Canada's close by, if I think that somehow our country might get restored in my lifetime, British Columbia (aka Vancouver) sounds nice.

On the other hand, now that John Howard's gone from Australia, I wouldn't mind looking into going there. Nice and isolated from whatever some fascist regime might try and do to its neighbors here (which might victimize Canada at some point). I think it would be fun to party with Peter Garrett now (Mr. Midnight Oil made their new environmental minister).

I think though Australia would be the choice if I felt that I was going to leave permanently and not come back.

"How can we dance when our beds are burning!..."

[Andrea]

46. Vancouver sounds really nice,

but Toronto is closer for me. So I'm not sure yet.

[redqueen]

8. Love this! I'd leave the country IN A HEARTBEAT if I could...

:loveya:

[Andrea]

20. Thanks. Where would you go?

[redqueen]

22. Ireland or somewhere the UK...

preferably Ireland. :)

Got any ideas yourself?

[Andrea]

24. My top contenders are

Canada, Argentina, UK, Norway, and Italy. But, I'm open to suggestions.

I'm also all for revolution if we have a chance of reaching a tipping point.

[Andrea]

11. I'm kicking this again!

Please check in. Let's hear your reasons.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Tunisia

Because it has great beaches and wearing of the veil is forbidden by law.

[New Dawn]

13. I voted revolution

That being said, if Scotland secedes from the UK I'd definitely try to move there. It is a pretty left-wing place btw. The Conservatives only won 16.6% of the vote there in the last regional election.

[Andrea]

15. That's interesting!

Scotland appeals to me because my mixed heritage has a lot of Scots in it.

[New Dawn]

42. Same here

I have a Scottish surname.

[Andrea]

16. Kicking for your responses

[smokey nj]

17. Revolution.

[readmoreoften]

18. There are people who are really beginning to take a critical look at what we mean by democracy.

I think this election cycle is the beginning of the end--or maybe even the end--of a reasonable ability to believe that what we have is a functional democracy. The votes are digitally controlled by central tabulators. The candidates are fabricated by the media--made, defined, and broken by the media--a media owned wholly by massive corporate interests. The fact that Edwards was doing so well IN SPITE of the little media attention given to him goes to show the impressive weight of his campaign.

Does democracy mean equal rights for all? Or simply pluralism: "a marketplace of ideas" where those with the most money buy the ideas that serve them and lord those ideas over all citizens. We've been operating on the notion of "the market will take care of itself"...meaning if things get bad enough a majority will vote against the bad political product.

But advertising works. People vote for the bad product. Good products get lost in the shuffle.

When it comes to the range of politically possibilities, there simply isn't much difference between Hillary/Obama and McCain. All three are center-right. Obama is closer to McCain than Clinton. Edwards is not too far off from any of them, but far enough to at least make a difference. Obama is disturbingly high on the authoritarian scale.

http://politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

To gauge the extreme global move to authoritarian capitalism, these are some good images:

http://politicalcompass.org/extremeright
http://politicalcompass.org/euchart
http://politicalcompass.org/canada2005 (note: the conservative party is not far from the standard dem in Canada.)

In my opinion, it's time to go beyond faith in voting and imagine a new kind of militancy: one similar to the right's revolution in the 70s. Unfortunately we don't have the monied interests to pursue our revolution. I think the first thing we need to do is examine what means we have available to us to push for authentic democracy, as opposed to market democracy. We still have the universities (sort of). We have labor (which needs to be reinvigorated). We have the internet (at least for now). And we have allies in other nations.

I think the time is coming.

If we could "have" the Democratic party, I'd love that, but it seems committed to its rightward slide.

[Andrea]

21. Great points

I think it is high time that we all begin to explore these issues. Examining what means we have available to us is a logical starting point. Let's get going on it.

[cascadiance]

31. Perhaps its now time for a general strike!

Though my guess is that we'll have to wait for the effects of a new depression to really set in before we can get massive participation that would be necessary to make it effective.

[Andrea]

41. Right now I think people are too fearful

Those that still have jobs are terrified of losing them and would not participate. We need to start, though.

Maybe we should have a mock state funeral in D.C. - for the Constitution.

[SeattleGirl]

19. Revolution, baby!

Not saying that it's not tempting to leave, but as my husband told me once when I was tempted to give up, I can't leave because I am a fighter.

I know that the M$M will now really bury Edwards, but he brought so much to this race; I heard echoes of his talking points from McCain and Romney both yesterday (and no, I don't think they would really follow up on them, just sayin').

We can still demand that the voices that Edwards stood up for, spoke for, are heard. Clinton and Obama both pledged to Edwards to make ending poverty a central theme in their campaigns. I don't know yet who I am going to choose between the two, but I will keep speaking up for those who would otherwise be silenced.

[FredfromSpace]

23. Revolution, but hold on to that ticket...

Cause ya still might need it.

With Edwards out, I have no more interest in this race AT ALL.

[Andrea]

25. I don't know who is recommending this, but thanks

This post has four recs now - 1 more for the Greatest page.

[Seabiscuit]

26. You say you want a revolution well, you know we all want to change the world

You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right ...

Beatles - Revolution

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. ...

:thumbsup:

[Andrea]

29. I'm afraid we are looking at destruction either way

That line, "Don't you know it's gonna be alright", I wish I could believe that.

[Lilith Velkor]

28. Ireland. n/t

[windoe]

32. Fight or flight--

I guess fight wins!! The good news (besides Ghouliani dropping out today) is: We the People outnumber the fascist criminals, as of today.

[Andrea]

48. Right, fight or flight:

the natural responses to fear.

[Der Blaue Engel]

33. I've been thinking about Sweden

My mother's family is from there, and I really like that part of the world. Probably way too cold for me, with my Seasonal Affective Disorder, but if the time comes to bug out, I'm seriously considering Sweden.

(Note: I don't think that time has come yet, but I'm very concerned about what the Bush admin has planned for the rest of their term.) :scared:

[Andrea]

40. But how can we tell when the time has come?

I don't want to wake up one day and realize I missed my chance.

Sweden has a very high ranking for democracy with he UN.

[tavalon]

34. Hilarious

I was going to explain to you that there aren't two choices and that, in fact, this choice was made long ago and that Fascism arrived quite a bit ago, under the guise of Democracy.

Then I looked at your poll and while I laughed out loud, I also ache.

[Andrea]

45. Thanks

When times are dark, it's time for dark humor, right?

[Critters2]

35. Canada. The prairie provinces. Lost of open space. Just what I love! nt

[rosesaylavee]

37. And where do we go that doesn't

hate Americans, where the economy and jobs are not going to be effected by climate change, where we will ever feel at home again? I do have this conversation with my husband... in theory as we don't have the money to make the leap. I just can't think of leaving when the country needs caring residents who will work for changes needed.

Revolution is the only way.

[troubleinwinter]

39. Edwards "out of the race"? Where do you get that? He did not withdraw. He suspended his campaign.

[Guaranteed]

43. Over John Edwards?

Sounds like you fell pretty hard.

He was just some dude- obviously very talented, but he was playing politics just like the other two.

[Andrea]

44. That remains to be seen

You may be right, but I hope you are not. Nonetheless, this is where we find ourselves now. Do we vote for the female corporatist or the male corporatist or whichever lunatic corporatist the Rs put up? Not good enough for me. I'm a patriotic American and as such, I support the Constitution. That's what I fell for.

[FrenchieCat]

47. I'm surprised you didn't pack your bags and leave right around

2001. That would have been a great time.

Otherwise, you are sad....and yes, you should leave right away!

:hi: Bye!

[Andrea]

49. I hope you don't think

that you could upset me.

And yes, I have been considering this since December, 2000. The problem is, I love my country too much to give up without a fight. It's just so hard to know when the fight is utterly hopeless.

[Bjornsdotter]

50. I'm a dual national

...so Sweden would be my choice. I've encouraged both kids to move there, one probably will and it would be very easy as half of my family is there. It's just a matter of getting my husband to move there.

Cheers

[Andrea]

51. Others have mentioned Sweden, too

I'm putting it on my official list of countries to look into. Thanks.

[Andrea]

52. One more kick

Before I finally go to bed