Is DK still running? Why?

[Jack_Dawson]

Dude. It's over.

Worry about staying in the House. That's where the party needs you at this point.

[Goldom]

1. so Kerry doesn't move to the right?

[Jack_Dawson]

2. Isn't it too late for that?

[goodhue]

no

[KerrySupporter]

3. i don't know but he needs to get behind kerry now!

kerry is the one and now it's time to finance him and put him in office with no opposition. if you are not with kerry then you are with bush. no room for argument this time. kerry is the one and we must support him at all costs.

[lams712]

4. I respectfully disagree....

....DK should stay as LONG AS HE DAMN WELL FEELS. If you don't like it, ignore him.

Hell, most Kerry supporters don't think much of him anyway, so what's the harm in him staying?, especially since he's such a "non-factor".

[For PaisAn]

36. You're right

DK should stay as LONG AS HE DAMN WELL FEELS.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

11. Oh baloney.

Kucinich will support Kerry after the convention

For now tho, let Kucinich & Sharpton run. The primarys arent officially over, and if people want to vote for K or S so what?

[Goldom]

5. he doesn't HAVE to do ANYTHING

But guess what? He will be behind kerry IN NOVEMBER. Contrary to what the news tells you, we haven't had the convention yet. Those delegates mean more than just a % vote. This is the -primary-. NOT the GE.

[no name no slogan]

6. Kerry needs 999 more delegates for 1st round nomination

and there's also 20 more states who have not yet cast their primary votes.

This thing ain't over yet. DK still has a lot of money, and can afford to campaign until June.

There's a time to get behind the nominee, but now is not that time.

[boxster]

16. Wrong.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/

He has 1557. He needs 2162.

[jsw_81]

40. It's over

Kucinich would have to win 95 percent of the remaining delegates to beat Kerry.

You're beyond clueless if you really think that Kucinich has a chance.

[redqueen]

7. Platform. Delegates to influence the platform.

Can we just get a big banner at the top of the screen that says that until the primaries are REALLY over?

:eyes:

[jsw_81]

41. Kucinich has 18 delegates

To influence the platform, you need to have hundreds of delegates. The Kucinich people won't have any power at all this summer.

[redqueen]

77. You don't think the Dean, Sharpton, and Kucinich delegates will be

likely to band together to influence the platform?

NO MEDIA CONCENTRATION - FAIRNESS DOCTRINE NOW

SINGLE PAYER UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE


Hmm, what else did these three true reformers agree on?

[DFLer4edu]

8. DK all the way!!!

Ok, well, not all the way, but Kerry's victory is a huge victory for DK because it frees up liberals in remaining states to vote for him. Instead of making a strategic vote for either Kerry or Edwards, they can vote for him and influence the party platform. DK knows what he is doing.

[revcarol]

9. Lydia where are you? $5.00 more for Dennis.

this is really getting old.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Brings me up to $10 for March

:-)

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

10. Is he going to debate Kerry in future primarys

....I wonder if he and Sharpton are going to debate Kerry in some future primary? Are we almost running out of primarys, tho?

[no name no slogan]

15. There's 20 primaries left, including Texas and NC

and I doubt Kerry would debate DK and AS, as they'd shred him on the issues.

Don't hold your breath for another debate, though...

[scarletwoman]

12. Are you trying to close off freedom of choice? Why?

You got a problem with the fact that other folks may have other ideas that they'd like to see go forward?

Dude, it's democracy. Get over yourself.

sw

[Jack_Dawson]

22. You're right, I'm anti-democracy

Verrrrry perceptive. :eyes:

[scarletwoman]

25. You asked, "why?" So I answered. (n/t)

[bobthedrummer]

47. Jack, since when would 60% of the primary voters and delegates

decide anything-this is a process that continues to the convention, right?

[rucky]

13. DK is helping more than you know.

He has to say he's in it to win. We have to say we're supporting him to win. And yes, there were moments that I believed he could possibly win, and I always hoped that miracle would happen.

Well he's not going to win & he's still in & we're still supporting him. It's not because DK & supporters are stupid, delusional, or anything like that at all. Nor are we hindering the unified Kerry front strategy. So i'll throw it back to you, because I know you're no dummy: why do you suppose he's still in it? Feel free to assume that DK & supporters are capable of wide vision and long-term strategy for the good of the entire party.

Nobody's sweatin' DK's congressional seat & Kerry's not sweatin' DK, so relax. Everything is coming together quite nicely (better if DK was closer to 15%)

Hint: Prayer for America : DK - Contract For America : Newt

[Jack_Dawson]

14. Well I'm sweating the congressional seat

And I have no idea why he's still running. A vanity candidacy I guess. Hey whatever I couldn't care less what DK does as long as he doesn't lose his seat.

JD

[rucky]

18. Edwards gave up his seat

much more precious.

DK won his congressional primary 85%. he's going nowhere, tho sources close to the campaign say he's running for Governor.

"vanity candidacy" - yeah DK's so vein. I don't mean to be dismissive, but I don't have time to spell it out for you, so please keep thinking about Newt & how he shifted the entire country further to the right & made many wingnut ideas mainstream. And think about Reagan's 11th commandment. And nevermind if you don't understand it. just don't fight it too hard - concentrate on Bush.

[Ediacara]

38. what if you threw a governor election

and no one came because it doesn't happen until 2006.....

[revcarol]

21. You might want to check out that other hit thread,

the one where it shows DK's seat is safe...wouldn't want to let FACTS get in your way, now, would you?

Just look at the issues that are on the table now because of
DK: universal health care, the WTO & NAFTA, Diebold(DK filed suit against them and won) and voting systems, free college education, raising the minimum wage, media consolidation reversal...and the list goes on.

If you want ISSUES, THE IMPORTANT ISSUES, discussed and brought to the fore, send a couple of bucks to Dennis, because he's still out there fighting for US.:think:

[TheWebHead]

17. E-G-O

It's apparent with these dating game appearances, posing with supermodels, that he's in it for himself and to stoke his own ego. I only hope he doesn't leave the Democratic party with an enormous campaign debt.

[scarletwoman]

19. You obviously don't know a THING about Kucinich!

Have you heard him speak? Have you read his position papers? Have you listened to any of his supporters explain why they support him?

Furthermore, he is spending his OWN campaign contribution money, the Democratic party isn't funding him. Do you even know how campaigns work?

Sheeeeesh... :eyes:

[Jack_Dawson]

23. I have no idea, please enlighten me

Like I said, I don't care wtf DK does as long as he keeps his seat.

[scarletwoman]

26. There have been HUNDREDS of posts from DK supporters for months!

You can go to his website: http://www.kucinich.us/ and read up.

What I don't get is, if you don't even know what his candidacy is about, why do you take it upon yourself to post a thread calling for him to quit?

It's fine by me if he doesn't interest you -- which would seem to be the case if you've remained oblivious to all the discussions about him here over the last year.

But how about showing a little respect for Dennis and the people who support him by considering the possibility that he and we DO know what we are doing and why we are doing it!

sw

[Kanary]

35. I think he knows, scarletwoman...

I think it's his mission in life to be the burr in the saddleblanket.

Y'know, making waves as best he can...

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

[Kanary]

34. You don't ....care?

You...really....don't...care?

Interesting why you keep beating this dead horse, then..

For someone who doesn't care, you seem to....

care...

quite....

a bit......

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

[goodhue]

71. Kucinich is the most selfless person I have ever known.

Seriously. The laughable EGO claim is media propoganda and indicates a lack of familiarity with his true persona and motivation.

[rbnyc]

81. He's doing it for me, not for himself.

As for his dating game appearances, he has taken coverage where he can get it, and I thought they were good humored.

[wuushew]

20. Was your CA vote for Clark or Kerry just curious

n/t

[Jack_Dawson]

24. Clark

But Clark knew when to get out and wasn't going to jeopardize a seat in Congress. But hey whatever if DK's seat is safe, knock yourself out.

JD

[Dhalgren]

28. He isn't running for himself

or for his own advancement. He's running to save the country - he won't quit.

[Vittorio]

29. Amen. Some people just don't know when to quit.

[Dhalgren]

30. You're right - why not read your own post.

.

[Forkboy]

31. As long as he's pissing off the stick-up-the-ass Dems

I'm all for him staying in.

[Kanary]

32. Same tune

That dictatorial one you keep humming.

Do you really think you have the power to tell others what they should do?

Time for another song, dude. This one's getting scratchy.

Kanary

[youngred]

33. so when are you taking down your Clark avatar?

he still has money and a message, why the hell not?

[Jack_Dawson]

37. Clark rules

Why would I take down his avatar? Look while I'm impressed with Kucinich's loyal following, I seriously don't understand why he is still running for president. And admittedly, maybe I haven't been through enough election cycles. We all know he's not going to win anything, so why bother? Why not at this stage just go back to helping Ohio? Seriously I'm just asking.

[youngred]

44. Why Bother

First: He's another highly critical voice against Bush who can flank for Kerry.

Second: He has a message about change which is bigger than the Presidential election.

Third: He has promised his supporters that he will stay in it til the convention and can still pick up a lot of votes in remaining primaries and act as a broker for the left at the convention.

Fourth: Why should he drop out? He's no threat to Kerry and is about building the party not taking it down.

Personal Note: Clark does indeed rock.

[Jack_Dawson]

74. Fair enough

Thanks for breaking it down for me. :toast:

[mvd]

39. He's not spending much money, for one

And I think it's good he remains visible as long as he leaves Kerry alone. He's the best on so many of the issues IMO: trade (why give corporations a chance to make out first,) health care, enviornment, social security (increasing the interest rate on the trust fund,) Department of Peace, more economic fairness, abortion, death penalty, education (people can point to whatever they like, but I'll point to his involvement in the Better Classroom Act, the Expand and Build America's Schools Act, and Head Start), and on and on. Plus, he should have a prime role at the convention.

[spychoactive]

42. The Kindest and most Hopefull voters deserve to be heard...

beyond a shadow of a doubt us 'kucinich kids' (sorry skinner) have been among the most upbeat and positive folks on this site...

it's about believing in something and then actually having a candidate to reflect those beliefs...very refreshing...

he deserves my vote, and he deserves my respect...many many others in pennsylvania feel the same way and just because our primary date renders it moot, we deserve to follow thru with this and cast a vote that we believe in not just a vote we believe will win...

one love
spike
DK-PA-04

[Indiana Democrat]

43. Who cares what Kucinich does?

He got creamed in his own home state...He doesn't matter.

[youngred]

45. helpful

always a passionate voice for the whole party unifying behind your candidate :eyes:

[charlie]

46. Why you do, of course!

Crack open any Kucinich thread and you're in the middle of it, squalling about how you could care less about what he does. You're in L-O-O-O-V-E.

[Indiana Democrat]

76. Liar.

Or would you care to prove your absurd charge?

Here's a hint: You can't.

[charlie]

79. To borrow your one-note trope

"Face reality." You're always around, you adore the man. Admit it.

[Indiana Democrat]

83. I do like him...

...but unlike others, I don't pretend like he's actually electable. (Outside of his congressional district).

[redqueen]

78. LOL!

Thanks, I needed that. :D

[bigtree]

48. DK is the only candidate advocating the total repeal of NAFTA

the WTO, the Patriot Act, the IWR. Without the pressure from Kucinich, Splinter interests like Nader will rightfully gain ground, taking the heart of our party's energy, our liberalism, outside of the Democratic arena as an opposition instead of a strength for Democrats. A strong Kucinich with a bagful of delegates rolling into the convention will allow Kerry to adopt these concerns into his platform and future debate. The campaign between now and the convention and the votes that Dennis recieves will give legitimacy to his concerns and bolster Kerry as it will keep him from being drawn to the right of the debate by Bush.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigtree]

70. Feel better?

You must have sooo much experience in these matters. To view the DK campaign as some threat is looney toon logic.

[Jack_Dawson]

75. That's actually a great argument

Taking away the Naderite looney tune vote is worthwhile.

[TrueAmerican]

49. DK needs to get out and back Kerry NOW!

The Democratic Party doesn't need a party spoiler who sole purpose is to hold the Democratic Party hostage due to blackmail and intimidation.


So DK stop your bitchin and get in the Kitchin and start bakin your brownies.

[youngred]

51. This shows a complete ignorance of Kucinich and his goals

and posts and sentiments like this are exactly why the Democrats are losing their base.

[TrueAmerican]

52. The base is not left wing

The base is moderate. Get a clue.

[youngred]

54. bullshit

Pure and utter ignorance of accepted fact of political science and history of the party system...perhaps you ought heed your own advice.

[TrueAmerican]

55. So you are saying because we being moderates

We aren't Anti-Bush? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhttttt.

[TrueAmerican]

56. The base got 6 percent in his own state.

Is that the base we really want to go by.

[youngred]

58. I didn't say you weren't anti-Bush

you read that into what I said (foolishly).

As far as base I'm talking about the progressives of the party who are the heart of the party. The majority of the electorate may be moderate, but you have no concept of what a base is. I refer you to your own advice. Right now your childish slams are just divisive and ignorant.

[TrueAmerican]

61. The base is the strongest foundation and usually the majority

That's what we moderate liberals are. So don't try to blackmail us or you're issue will never see the light of day. The republicans are handicapped by their extreme religious right wing nuts. The Democratic Party doesn't need the same from the extreme left.

[youngred]

68. In a two party system

The people generally fall into a bell curve distribution. Except for extreme outliers the edge of the curve is considered the base of the party as it identifies with the major ideas and platforms of the party. They do not represent a numerical majority, yet they are the most likely to vote, volunteer and donate. Alienating a powerful and active base is a surefire way to electoral disaster. Why are the Republicans so strong of late? because they spent time and effort wooing that "fringe" and using them as footsoldiers in the fight against the left. The Left which had traditionally counted on unions to act this part are suffering from the decline of Unions in this country (coincidentally many of the Unions are the fringe left you speak about so derisively). The base is in the wing of the partiess not in the fairweather moderates who by definition will switch parties at any time they feel like. However, alienating, attacking, ignoring and mis-treating the left is a good way to watch that very important 6-20% that you seem not to care about and wish would get lost leave your party or stay home. You are preaching the (failed) idea of third way politics. We don't want to be bullies, but we aren't taking shit anymore. It's time for the Democrats to re-find their base and strength and present a clear alternative to Bush and the Republicans.

Welcome to Political Science 101

[no name no slogan]

72. You need us more than we need you

The grassroots progressives are the ones who are reaching out to disaffected voters AND potential Nader voters, getting them to vote for our nominee.

The only thing the "moderates" have succeeded in doing is shut out the progressives, making them bolt the party for the Greens, or just causing them to stay home on election night.

Don't believe me? Then look at the record low voter turnout numbers we've had for the last twelve years. Almost 50% of eligible voters stayed home in 2000, because there was little REAL difference between Gore and Shrub on several MAJOR issues: NAFTA, the "Drug War", the death penalty, "welfare reform", etc.

If you insist on pissing on the ideas we bring forth (and our dedication to a party that only seems to give a rat's ass about our wallets and our vote), you will continue to lose to the Repubs on election day.

In my state, a ragtag bunch of amateurs with NO money from national, NO professional politicians and almost NO coverage by the media amassed 17% of the vote. We also got several of our people into leadership positions at the local party level.

We KNOW how to get people energized and motivated, and how to get them to participate. But if you don't want our help (as is apparent by your posting), then I'm sure many of us would be glad to step aside and let you do the work.

[goodhue]

53. yes

Kucinich is currently campaigning in Florida for a 2nd full day. Then he will be in Texas. He is running to promote the progressive vision of the coming transformation and steer the party towards the issues his campaign embodies. See http://www.kucinich.us/issues/.

[TrueAmerican]

57. He needs to get out and support Kerry

No need the hold the rest of the party hostage to his bullying.

[IrateCitizen]

59. (sigh)

Whether one believes that DK should stay in at this point or not, it is posts like this that leave me shaking my head.

Bullying and badgering is not the way to bring others around to your point of view. I have not seen any "bullying" by Dennis Kucinich in this campaign season. I have seen someone presenting an alternative vision from that being put forward by the "mainstream" candidates, but I have not seen bullying.

Demands like this one though, could easily be seen as bullying. If I could translate the above post, it could be summed up with "my way or the highway."

It doesn't influence people, nor does it help the cause of unity that you seem to care so much about.

[TrueAmerican]

64. I guess you need to step back and see DK supporters think

they have a right to pull Kerry away from his base (the moderate liberal). Without the base of the Democratic Party, Kerry has no chance of winning. The six percent of Ohio will not be enough.

[IrateCitizen]

73. No, I don't. I only need to recognize "bullying" when I see it.

That was the purpose of my reply. And what you have exhibited on this thread is nothing short of bullying.

Perhaps such concepts as honest, vigorous debate are no longer in vogue, and perhaps I am a throwback -- but I still happen to hold the belief that we can disagree with each other without the need for ridicule or extreme condescension.

Apparently you do not, and that is the difference between us.

[youngred]

60. HAHAHAHA

Bullying, eh?


Look, either DK is fringe and doesn't matter or you need him...why should he and his supporters be bullied into towing the line and kow-towing to Kerry? DK isn't out of the race and has every right and indeed duty to stick around

[TrueAmerican]

62. Face it. He's out.

He has no chance of winning and the more he and his gang of bulliers whine, the more they will be disowned by the majority.

[youngred]

63. He's a bully! He's a Freak! He's a Fringe! No One Likes Him!

just keep repeating the mantra and you'll convince....yourself.

Go ahead with YOUR Bullying and then you can attack us all as disloyal traitors when the progressives stay home because they're not wanted.

[TrueAmerican]

65. Stop calling yourself Progressives.

True Progressives are people like me that include tolerance for the whole party, not just the small fraction who refuse to face reality.

[goodhue]

67. We don't deny reality.

Just because Kerry is likely to get the nomination does not mean that supporters of other candidates have to get on board before the convention. The campaign is about changing the democratic party from the ground up and Kucinich supporters are doing just that in MN.

[youngred]

69. I'm perfectly tolerant and accepting of the moderates

its the moderates that don't seem to like me...as is perfectly evidenced by your posts

[goodhue]

66. MN will likely be sending nine DK delegates to Boston

And there are hundreds of Kucnich supporters here in MN who aspire to such a role. Whining bullies tends to describe the other two camps here in MN, and certainly not Kucinich supporters. But thanks for caring.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CalebHayes]

82. They have a good reason. I just talked up to someone high up in the camp.

[The Blue Knight]

84. Liberals need moderates more than moderates need liberals? LOLOLOLOL

Who cost moderates the '00 election?

Liberals sick of the DNC centralizing.

Just who needs who here?