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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:43 PM
Original message
Direction, And Howling at the Moon
I feel like a boxer without a corner man, a wide receiver, without a quarterback.

I’m not a leader, I'm a follower, and I’ve never made it my business to inspire. Now, I’m a boat without a mast, no rudder, no wind, no compass. Once again, in my life, I find myself without a clear direction.

So where is the fight now? I feel like there is a rock, where my heart used to beat. I’ve traveled thousands of miles, I’ve made thousands of phone calls, knocked on hundreds of doors, and I’ve been blessed to meet and know some of the most amazing people you would ever want to meet. Where do all of us go?

I’m a realist. Yes I know life goes on and you can lead, follow, or get out of the way. I’m going to need a couple of days to pick a direction though, and I will take my time charting that course, and I’m going to need to know who will surround me on this journey. Right now, I may be doing a little howling at the moon for the next couple of days, and I’m telling you, look out for me if there is one bad word posted about John Edwards here. You must know, I’m a fighter, who is itching for a fight.

I want to thank DU, and all of the great people here. You have given me a top-notch education in the short time I’ve been here, and I know, I could not have received this kind of learning anywhere else. There are some really amazing, inspirational people here, and while I won’t take the time to point you out by name, you know who you are. And now, I stand before you all, as living proof that knowing the score, doesn’t make the game any eaiser to play.

Knowing that John was never given a fair shake from the MSM, from the very beginning, does make this a harder pill to sallow. Understanding better than ever, the powers out there that are built only to rob us of our voices, makes it too easy to be silent, and withdraw. It’s too easy to just pull that lever, and keep your mouth shut. Maybe I’ll start another band, take up a real hobby, or just finally find a girlfriend. Maybe I’ll live some life.

I don’t know a lot of things. Most of you here know I never really went to school. I’ve never been the smartest person in the room, but I have been in many rooms, surrounded by many people smarter than myself. That’s how I always feel here, with you good people. And again, thank you all.

I’ve lost almost every battle I’ve ever fought, and now, here’s another crushing defeat in my life. I was behind Gary Hart, I loved Bill Bradley, and yes, I supported Howard Dean, so here’s a warning, you might think real hard about inviting me to your team, because so far, in my political picks, I’m a big fat goose egg. Yes, I wonder if perhaps my support is the kiss of death.
Often, late at night, when no one is there to see, I wonder what might have happened if I’d just won one of those battles. I wonder at what American might have been, but will never be. And in those wonderings, I’ve discovered something that I’ll pass on to all of you.

I’m not sure I’ve ever learned anything from winning. All of my scars carry a lesson and when I bleed out, knowledge bleeds in. It’s a tough, hard edged, and nearly impossible to gulp down knowledge, but it is wisdom nonetheless. It’s going to take some time, I’m not sure how long, to absorb what I’ve learned here, but I will come out smarter. I will come out of this better, and if we all take the time to take a real good look at this, we can all come out of this with a new direction, and a new dream.

The people I’ve met out there on the road in Iowa, in Nevada, and even here in California, the people I’ve truly become friends with here at DU are all friends of mine for life. No exceptions. I’m so proud of the relationships I’ve made, and the connections I’ve forged, and there is no way I would give up even one of you. My phone is ringing off the hook, my e-mail is chiming in every two seconds, and it looks like I’m not the only one thinking about the road ahead. So I’ll shed a tear, let a heavy sigh fall from my lips, and get up and start fighting again. What else would any of you expect me to do?

You people are the first real friends I’ve made in a long, long time. I keep you all, here, in my heart.

Good luck to everyone, and your candidates. Know that I type this through righteous, hard won, stinging tears. And know that I leaned, as a boy playing little league baseball, that when the game is over you shake hands, no matter who wins. To me, that is the true cornerstone of America. Winners and losers. I did just once, hope to be one of the winners. I’ve been called a fool, I’ve been called naïve, and I’ve been accused of being misled, and I want you to know, not one of my detractors deterred me for a single second. Many have tried to label me here.

But there was one person, here on DU, that gave me the label I like the best, and I now wear that label with pride. I am an Activist. Soon, I’ll act again.


The Carolinian

By the way, if this had been a fair fight, if we had had a level playing field, I think my guy would have wiped up the floor with the others. Sorry for the last dig, I pray you understand the place where it comes from, and forgive me my anger.

Peace,
Rocky
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. you're also a writer
and a damned good one. I don't know what else to say, rocky, except take your time.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks Cal, your words mean a lot to me.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 02:50 PM by asdjrocky
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R! Edwards would have kicked ass with a level playing field!
:grr:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks Blue State, the anger is starting to subside, now it's just the hurt.
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Beautiful Rocky!
One mistake in OP though....You are not a follower...You have been and you are a leader! :pals:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Wow, thank you so much lisa, you know I think you are a beautiful person.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Indeed! Rocky is a leader among Leaders!
To Rocky, :yourock:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
76. Thanks Blue State, I love that puppy by the way.
And no-

:yourock:
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. You are a true inspiration, Rocky.. a shining example of the activist advocate in all of us. I am
proud to call myself your friend, proud to have ridden along with you in this campaign. I don't know where I will go either.. if there is any fight left in me for this. Maybe I'll be out, with you, howling at the moon.

Life holds wonder and enchantment for those like you who are willing to experience it.. don't give up yet, you have much to offer !

All my love to you, dear Rocky..

KG
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks KG, it's been one hell of a ride, hasn't it?
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes, it was a hell of a ride
But I would do it again in a heart beat! Edwards had the right message, and as has been said already, if the playin field would have been even, he would have won! If we don't keep his spirit alive, and demand the same changes from who ever gets this nomination, we will be forced to be under the control of corporate america forever. John showed my one thing, don't give up, and I won't. I will not be voting for any candidates that want to kiss up to the corporate power that runs this country. From my local level on up to the top, my vote will be for those who will give us real change, not more of the same! We still have a vote, and we can make the changes by uisng that vote.

I am proud to have been on the same team as you, and all the other wonderful Edwards supporters here and on other boards I have posted on.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Thanks Andy, I don't know what I do today, without people like you man.
Let's keep the fight alive.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. It has.. and its not over yet :-)
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks Rocky.
K&R :kick:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Chin up Lugnut, tomorrow's another day, another fight.
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il_lilac Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. k&r
can't say more- I'm not as eloquent as you when I'm crying. Thank you
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Wow, that's one word I've never expected to be called.
Thank you so much, and hang in there.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thank you, Rocky.
Like you, I will need to take some time to figure out who to support. Right now, I'm too hurt to do that.

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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. I feel the same way, rocky.
:hug:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. A cyberhug to you today.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You're one of the good eggs. Thanks.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. ...
:hug:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Back at ya redqueen, and thanks for all the help.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. Rocky, you have been the source of my strength and an inspiration during this campaign.
In many ways , it was you as much as Edwards "who kept the dream alive". You are not a follower, you are a leader my friend and I would be proud to follow you aga.You understand and value the power of a dream and as they say in the commercial the value of that is "priceless". Bless you my friend and I hope we meet and find both answers and a direction together.I wish it wasn't too early for a drink!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. So when is that net roots convention? Man I need something to look forward to.
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paganlib Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. Beautiful......
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Thanks paganlib.
Remember, once we know what the job is, there'll be more work to do. Hang in there.
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thank you for your words, Rocky. This post means a lot to me.
I am now typing through my tears, too.

Much love to you.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Thank you Joolz-
Tomorrow? Another day, another fight.
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. But rocky
you ARE a leader! And a true patriot. :patriot:

And yes, a helluva fine writer!

Thanks so much for all you've done for John Edwards...and for us!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Well, thank you-
But don't follow me now, because I have no idea where I'm going.
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Alas, neither do I.
But you'll find your way, and so will I.

We just need a little time.

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iris5426 Donating Member (697 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
32. I got here too late and everyone has said all that ran through my head while reading...
Saracat nailed it, and I agree with others you are definitely an Eloquent Activist Writer, and it's a badge you should wear proudly (maybe get some business cards made too, those would be fun to hand out)(I would normally have put a wink in there but it's smiling and I'm not ready for that yet). You were one of the first people I considered a friend when I first came here, and I didn't really come here expecting to find friends. But the group of Edwards supporters here at DU (and really at least in the time I've been here I've felt we were led by you) are amazing, wonderful dedicated people. This is a really hard day, but at least we all have each other.

:hug:

:grouphug:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. And if I have anything to say about it-
We will always have each other. I used to think I wouldn't make friends like the ones I made as a kid. I was wrong Iris, I was so wrong.

You are all such amazing, caring, dedicated people. My heart always stirs when I think of any of you.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. Love ya Rocky -
:hug:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Right back at ya Hope, you know you are one of the very best eggs.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. No words...
other than thank you. And thanks to John and Elizabeth. And everyone else fighting the good fight.

:hug:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. And this fight isn't over, it can't be.
The ideas, the agenda, the real, true hope of the American people goes on. And so do we.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. And this fight isn't over, it can't be.
The ideas, the agenda, the real, true hope of the American people goes on. And so do we.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. Edwards had more support than the corporate bastards were willing to admit.
Look at all the questions about the primaries. So much suspicious shit going on it wasn't funny.

I have NO doubt that powers that be have STOLEN the primaries and they WILL STEAL THE O8 ELECTION TOO.

The system is broken folks. We are TOTALLY SCREWED.

Maybe Edwards realized it was fruitless to try and fight the corruption.

Or more likely.... the PTB threatened him. They are some evil MO FOs. Look no further than JFK. :tinfoilhat:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. It does make you wonder my friend, it does make you wonder.
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. I, too, am typing through my tears.
Rocky, your eloquence and heartfelt sincerity gives voice to many of us. And you ARE a leader. And the best non-educated writer I've ever seen. Many with PhDs could taken lessons from you. Thank you for all you do; none of it was in vain.

It's too early for me to decide what to do yet, but I do know this. I'm voting for John Edwards on Feb. 12.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Thank you for the kind words Nasty, and remember-
I couldn't spell Democrat before I came to DU! I've learned more here, from you good people, than I could have at any school.
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Tom Strong Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. "I feel like a boxer without a corner"
Quit wasting your time on DU and write some fuckin' songs, man!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. That's great man, I love ya!
I got a whole box of songs, wanna buy one?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
43. Rocky...
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 05:53 PM by CorpGovActivist
... the Shake Willy of DU, the Bard who took the lard out, no, you lead (past), you lead (present), and you will lead again (future).

You inspired. Leader.

You perspired. Leader.

You grew tired. Leader.

You conspired. Leader.

You got mired. Leader.

Don't retire. Leader.

:hug:

- Dave
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Wow, great words from someone that knows how to write em.
Thanks Dave, you are one of the very best. On a tough day, your kind words mean a lot.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Your Words...
... have given unending hope, eased hurts, and marked a Hanselpath and a Gretelgirder to a place you cannot go back to, but a place you can look back on: that place you started, and will never return to; you are of the forest now, and it knows you as its own.

- Dave
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. That's why I need you around CGA-
You can explain all the big words. You know, I hope to read a book from you one day.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Foreword Thinking...
... you write mine, I'll write yours. Deal?

:toast:

- Dave
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Done and done, buddy.
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Mark Twain Girl Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
44. This post means a lot to me. I've got a lump in my throat but I feel like I'm not alone
Thanks for this, friend. I'm proud of what we fight for, and I met so many people with hearts and guts who felt the same way. I don't feel like I wasted a moment of time or a dime of money. I'm proud to be part of this movement, side by side with so many great people.

This was the first time in my life I ever felt so connected to a dream for my country.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Now those are some true, and purposeful words.
We've not wasted a moment of it. And in the end, our voices will be heard. You put my feelings so perfectly into words when you said this-

"This was the first time in my life I ever felt so connected to a dream for my country."

I know just how you feel. And how can we let that feeling go away? Will the poor also go? The down heartened? No, they need us, we need us.

Fight the power. Keep the faith.
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
47. Chin up and keep putting one step in front of the other.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 05:50 PM by Tennessee Gal
My Dad, rest his soul, always said that to me.

We Edwardians will never give up on our cause, on what we believe is right for this country. There will be a place for us. I am convinced of it. Just don't know where or when yet.

* Had to edit due to tears.*
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G_Leo_Criley Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. So true ...
Your dad was wise Tennessee Gal. One foot in front of the other is all that we can do.

Right now I know that it hurts for everyone.

John Edwards is still a leader and it will become clear what his place will be in the coming days and what he would like his supporters to do. I believe that he'll have tremendous input into the Dem platform, especially in regard to issues of poverty and health insurance. So many other things too.

Today though is a day to let the sorrow wash over and make everyone stronger. Everyone is better for having listened to his message. Everyone is better for having witnessed the magnificent Elizabeth Edwards.

Edwards knows above all what he needs to do.


A hug to all. And Rocky... you rock.

:grouphug:

glc
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. Great words. Thank you so much.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Good words. I've been telling people to chin up all day.
It's time I do the same. Thanks.
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G_Leo_Criley Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. well you know...
Chin up is one thing, but it's ok to let the sorrow wash over you and feel it, and taste it and know it.

Sorrow itself is very transformative in its nature.

Just a thought.

:hug:

glc
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pamela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
51. Love you Rocky.
It been an honor, and a pleasure, being on the same team as you.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Back at ya.
And we'll always be on the same team. No matter what.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
53. Thanks, Rocky! Take a well deserved break
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 07:20 PM by OzarkDem
There's nothing left to do right now. We voters have no cards to play, the game has moved on to a higher stakes table.

Keep your ideals, you values, your dreams. We'll find another leader maybe in a year or so after the dream goes sour and people wake up again.

Just bide your time. Get involved with a issue focused, community based grassroots advocacy group and prepare to work on changing the system from the outside, in non-political ways. Its much harder than it used to be, but some marginal success is still possible.

Yes, its a big disappointment to realize the Democratic Party is no longer able to represent and advance the agenda of voters, but it will change again. Some day.

:hug:


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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Good advice, and I'm already looking ahead.
We have congressional races, and many, many local, important issues.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
60. "I’ve never made it my business to inspire"
You've done a damn good job of inspiring, I'd say. John Edwards already has my California primary vote - I mailed that ballot in and can't take it back now - not that I would at this point. That decision was due at least in part to your influence and your infectious enthusiasm for this champion of the poor and the working Americans.

Oh, and you are a winner - and you backed a winner. Getting any "unauthorized" message whatsoever out through the M$M censors and their paymasters is an awesome feat in itself, and one that wouldn't have been possible without activist supporters like you. Don't kid yourself - if your guy had not worked tirelessly to put fighting poverty, breaking corporate control of our country, and working for economic justice on the agenda, do you really think the issues would even be mentioned in the MSM? *Somehow* I don't think his dropping out of the race means he will abandon those causes. Perhaps John Edwards will now be in a position to do for the cause of economic justice what Al Gore has done for the cause of ecological responsibility.

Thank you, rocky

Thank you for all of the work you have put in to the struggle to make this country what it should be, what most of us want it to be, and for not giving up on us, or on yourself.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. That has got to be one of the best things-
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 08:29 PM by asdjrocky
Anyone has ever said to me. Your words really touched my heart, and I'm glad for whatever my words did to help you to vote for John. Something tells me, you would have figured out the right thing to do all on your own, just fine.

Thanks for the reply, and stay strong.
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
64. Oh Rocky!
I've been playing catch up from a long day at the ofice and just now read this. Your words really warmed my heart on a c-c-c-cold Iowa night. You are the BEST.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Thanks Inspired, so nice of you to say.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
65. This is a sad day.
For Democracy.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. One door closes-
Another opens. Let's be ready for what's on the other side of that door.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. I'm scared.
:scared:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. I'm with ya. We'll look out for each other.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
109. you said it Rocky
No one here need be alone again.

It is just amazing to me - we have so many good people who are genuinely fearful, and with good reason. And we have a political establishment, and that relatively small percentage of the population shilling for them, that is telling us that this is not rational or appropriate.
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cindydivine Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
68. Thank you, Rocky...
For articulating what I have not yet been able. This is a significant blow to us all and I know many of us tonight are left in tears, angry and wondering what to do next.

I have met so many great people through this, as we all have, and if nothing else comes of our time at least we have that.

John Edwards may not be elected our next President, but he will be my President and I will continue to look to him for inspiration. I will continue to look to him to give me the courage to believe in the good in people, to believe that things can truly get better.

Peace to you and yours.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Thanks Cindy.
I've learned some great things here. And one of them is Edwards Supporters are a bred of their own. Amazing friends.

Thanks again for the nice words.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
69. As one that I consider a huge asset in elevating the dialog here,
I wish you clarity of mind and spirit as you find your path. You made an immediate and positive impact with me as I read your rational posts. Be well and keep up the good fight. And also, may peace find all of us soon.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Good words. The agenda goes no where.
The Edwards message goes on. I don't know what the rules are, but from this time on, I'm an Edwards Democrat.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
71. Thank You Rocky for everything you did on behalf of
the Edwards Campaign and for us.
When I went to bed last night I was so excited to be seeing John live in San Jose this Friday. Then I woke up this morning and switched on the radio - for a while I literally couldn't breathe and then I let out a horrible wail. I think it hurts so much because I really didn't see this coming. It literally took my breath away.

That won't be an echo you hear tonight, it'll be me baying at the moon from the Oakland Hills - I think there'll be a lot of us.
:cry:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. We're doing some baying here as well.
It's a tough night for us all. We're getting a bunch of people together in Sacramento, just to say thanks to everyone. I'm hoping it turns out to be a night of drunkenness and many tears. You, are welcome to come, my friend.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. Something I never do is drink alone - but I'm doing it now. A
whole bottle of wine to myself - hic! My husband is currently in Canada, so I have no-one to hold onto, but I'm with you in spirit!

This one's for you John and Elizabeth

:toast:

and this one is for all my fellow Edwardians!!

:toast:

fuck it - I'm gonna have a hell of a headache in the morning!
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
75. For someone who says "never been the smartest person in the room",
It looks to me like you might want to consider exercising your anger with some writing. Put up a blog or even work on a book, and check back in here on occasion with a few words.

For your information, I am the original bearer of bad luck to football teams and political candidates. ;)

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. Wow, thanks.
I wrote a book once, then promptly burned it. Like Hemingway said, no one should read your first novel.

Once I figure out how to use these internets right, a blog is indeed on it's way.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #78
102. whatever you need
Anyway I can help. I am right there. You keep doing what you do, I'll figure out the internets for you.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
79. From Me to You... I Know The Feeling Of Never Really Winning... But THIS
ONE has HURT me most of all. My first REAL campaign was for George McGovern way back when, and then on down the line. I remember the night Carter won, but I also remember when he lost! I supported Bill Clinton, even thought I ALWAYS knew he was more to the right than I. I felt they treated him badly by going after him for most of his 2nd term, but I also had mixed feelings about it.

To me, as such an intelligent man, I would have thought he could have held back at least while he was a President. So it showed me that for his intelligence, he seemed not to have much common sense with that one.

John Edwards was "done wrong" from the "get go" and I don't know if I WILL recover. I'm older now, and perhaps have gained some insight. I think I have anyway. What I do know is that this has knocked me WAAAAAAY back. Since The Decider came along I've become much more cynical about so many things, now I must add bitter to the list. I don't like saying these things, I NEVER felt this way before when ANY candidate bowed out, but this one has cut me so deeply. My head hurts from the emotional ride since this morning.

But I do want to thank you for being so dedicated and in many ways one of the real "leaders" for John Edwards here at DU! There are more who did so much too. But I'll never forget our "Energizer Bunny" thread and how we kept it going. You going to Iowa and helping by working so hard. You have been a mainstay for those of us who desperately wanted and NEEDED John Edwards. I thank you for that. Perhaps you can pick yourself up and go on to the next time out. I don't think I can, nor do I feel I want to. I've felt that way for quite some time. I told my grandson that I knew what it was like to lose, and it had made me stronger because of it. I don't know what to tell him now. He voted for the first time down here in Florida. A weird place to start, but he voted for Edwards. A couple of people called me today, but most didn't because they "knew" I was unable to talk about it. My daughter and son and the rest of my family all supported Edwards too, but I know why they didn't call. I was always making sure they knew about what he was doing and the cheerleader of our bunch.

Time heals they say, but there are many things I've never forgotten. Still I got through. Now I just don't want to go through it anymore. I can no longer be the leader of "my" family and I need to pass the torch. It's too hard to explain stuff like this.

But you CAN write, you ARE a leader and you have given so much and I thank you. Good Luck to you. I'll probably check in from time to time, but this CUT really pierced to the bone.







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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. Please do check in.
Know that I read, and listened to ever single word. Give it a day. Give it two. And be good to yourself.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
80. Thank you for one helluva post, Rocky. You're a great writer!
:yourock:

I'm heartbroken I won't get to see him in San Jose on Friday, afterall. :cry:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. Yep, I was going too.
And no-
:yourock:
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #80
84. Me too - I'd booked into the Ramada so I'd be real early. When
I called to cancel, they said they'd had a slew of cancellations - so I guess I wasn't the only one. i just am so sorry i never got to see him in person.

:grouphug:
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
85. I'm with you, Rocky!
:thumbsup:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Ya know, there's gotta be something more than this.
We have to build on what we've done here.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
87. As far as "losing" almost all your battles
Probably something similar could be said about almost everyone who makes it his/her goal to get our country to live up to its ideals. This is a very long project which will probably not be settled in our lifetime.

So we keep on trying, and we do the best we can, trying to make our contributions wherever and however we can. That's all anyone can ask.

Yesterday was a very sad day. It will take me a while to recover from it.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #87
93. But today, is a new day!
Let's go do some good. Thanks for the post, your words meant a lot to me.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. Thank you for your thoughts on this -- it's great to know we're not alone
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
88. K&R! YES! Edwards would have knocked them all out of the box!
Nothing to forgive, I am still hurting & angry too, Rocky, and your post will help me to get through it. We do have to continue fighting for what we believe in. Very well said!
Thanks for writing this.
:toast:
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
89. Thank you, Rocky. For all you did and will do to carry the fight on.
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 09:34 AM by tom_paine
You are a true patriot, sir...and a leader. :patriot:

I wish I had more to say in that positive, upbeat way...but I don't.

I don't know why I am saying what I am about to say. In some ways it feels like I am pissing on your thread. Hell, I probably have that reputation here on DU, but I don't care what others think of me. It's too late for that, anyway.

But I need to vent. I need to say it. I need to speak it. Let me first say that I agree that on a level playing field, Edwards would have cleaned up. It was evident in the fact that in most if not all the post-debate focus groups and polls, Edwards kept winning, but gained nothing for it. Very much a "water flowing uphill sensation", but for almost a decade, really 25 years or more, "water has been flowing uphill" in this country...upside-down land, where winning debates and hearts gains one no traction in polls or votes, and that is only one aspect of hundreds of this Orwellian nightmare into which we have slipped. I could wear my fingers out typing and bore the hell out of you before I even named half of them.

Again I am reluctant to say these things because so many people are posting such positive things on this thread, but I have to say it. Our nation is no longer free. It is an illusion, a hologram, to quote Joe Bageant (if you haven't read him, you might want to check out www.joebageant.com for his unique insights), one in which people are not really central to the operation of the hologram.

There is no question now that anyone who professes assistance and aid to the American People in any way that challenges the status quo will not be allowed to gain the Imperial Throne (I can't bring myself to call it the Presidency, anymore, because it has as little to do with that era as Nazi Germany had to do with the Weimar Republic that preceded it).

We are a nation of used car salesman, as Hunter S. Thompson said many times before, but doesn't even come close to it. We are a nation of suckers and consumers, so accustomed to being lead around by the nose that we know no other way. The TV is God and we worship at the altar of addiction.

We are witness to the greatest era of marketing, advertising and PR the world has ever seen. We are the "marks" in the Greatest Sale in All Human History (Hitler and the Germans don't count - he had to use lots of violence to make his "sale", thus invalidating it as a triumph of pure selling; the best sales involve the sucker/mark gleefully buying into the ripoff). The selling of tyranny, totalitarianism, and Orwell's "1984" to the supposedly free-est people on Earth with the longest tradition of freedom on Earth.

And I am going to step outside political correctness to say what needs to be said: There was only one possible way the Bushies could make this election close enough to steal, and we are seeing it right now. Which was to maneuver through money and media an African-American or a female opponent. Once again, the Democratic Leadership has behaved as if they were run by the Bushies.

Such a sentiment is likely to get me flamed here at DU, but I don't care about that either. Reality sucks, but we dare not deny it.

I always said it was a good thing that John Edwards was the only one actually proposing to fight for us, and to take on the status quo that is strangling the economy, morality and soul of America, because if he, Clinton, and Obama, had been equally willing to do so, I would have defaulted to the "vote for the White Guy" position because we need to WIN, not make a noble effort in a doomed cause that is very likely the utter and final end of America as a free nation.

Demonstrating that is so would take another five pages of typing, so let me just address one aspect of dozens by saying: David Iglesias, Georgia Thompson, Paul Minor, and Don Siegelman. At every level of our nation, the System of Checks and Balances is breaking down in ways that are at the very least, tactical echoes of Hitler and the Nazis, Caesar and the Romans, Pinochet and the Chileans and what they did to their respective nations.

Hyperbole? Dear God help me and all of us, how I wish it was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

I am probably going to take some time off from DU, if I can, because I don't wish to demoralize those who wish to fight, for those who wish to keep believing that I and Naomi Wolf and Noami Klein and all the rest are wrong wrong WRONG. Truth be told, I would far rather we WERE wrong.

Because I am of the mind that this "election" is already over. The MSM has done it's usual job in selling us a bag of Bushie Lies, but this nation in so many ways, slithering just beneath the surface in the new "code" which gives Plausible Deniability (the mother's milk of tyrants), is as racist and sexist now, especially among the white population, as at any time since the late 60s.

No, the obvious signs aren't there, and the Bushies can't lynch African-Americans at will, though they have created a vote-suppression operation right in plain sight that steals millions of African-American votes before they are even cast (machine stacking, voter caging, and Voter Id to name three of the thousand cuts inflicted, and that is just what we know and is out in the open).

And if you think these zealous Bushie-Nazis were inspired to excuse their own criminality "to prevent a greater evil" of a Democratic President in 2000 and 2004 by suppressing, stuffing, and stealing votes, how zealous will they be to keep an African-American or a woman Democrat out of the Oval Office?

Answer: To heights of criminality and subterfuge previously unimaginable.

But the MSM tells us America is not racist or sexist anymore. The MSM tells us the under-30 crowd is going to carry the day against the entrenched people with all the power who have just gotten away with EVERYTHING for seven and more years. The MSM tells us... the MSM tells us... the MSM tells us LIES!

I am so sorry to say all of this to you, Rocky. I have been Paul Revere-ing for seven years and I have busted my ass in 2002, 2004, and 2006, as you are doing now. I am not advocating anyone give up, but there is really only one fight left to fight in this country.

And like in Germany 1933-37, it is a fight I am 95% certain we will never wage. It's too big and too scary and the corruption and totalitarian evil we face is too big and awful for people to even look it in the eye, let alone take the necessary action, such as national strikes, to stop it.

And every day it grows stronger, every day it interweaves itself into reality to the point where it IS reality, and reality is unreal. THIS in the end is why John Edwards could win every debate in post-debate polls, and gain no support from it. Reality cannot stand up against The Hologram.

In Amerika, no one can hear you scream.

Since you came onto this board, you have inspired me, sir, and here I am returning that inspiration with demoralization. I am sorry.

After 2006, when in accordance with the upside-down Orwellian world we inhabit, we won yet nothing changed, I was going to drop out and sit this one out. You inspired me to contact the Edwards campaign and if he made it past Super Tuesday, I was going to work for him in my home state.

Now? Clintobama has nothing to offer us but more capitulation and lies, more submission to the status quo, this grotesque kinder and gentler totalitarianism that has stolen America's soul. And they can't even win. They cannot deliver theft-proof margins of victory and the Bushies might not even NEED to steal and votes to win fairly.

Which means McCain is going to win in a punishing landslide in terms of the "counted" votes. That means we won't even get a brief rest from the vampirism before the next Bushie takes us to the Next Level of Tyranny...which was the most we could have hoped for from Clintobama anyway...a brief rest in which things slowed down, not turned around.

So again, thanks for everything Rocky, but as freedom-loving, Constitution-loving, Founding Fathers-loving Americans we were doomed from the start. This is the wrong time in history to be that when, like in the 1930s, totalitarian evil just kept winning and winning and winning and winning...

There is only one fight left to fight, and it is the fight that will never be fought because 99.5% of the Imperial Subjects of Amerika would rather damn generations unborn that sacrifice the tiniest thing now.

Sucks being in the 0.5%, doesn't it?
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. Holy wow -- is this inspired or what?
:applause:

You should make this its own thread to share the sentiment.

Just wow.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #94
107. Tom's da man!
Good lad that man.

Bravo Tom. Stay in touch if you go missing from here. You have mail
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
90. I know how you feel, Rocky. Take your time; do some living.
I liked Bradley; I was a complete Deaniac; the Edwards' campaign was inspired by the guy's heart and soul.
The remaining choices seem, well, just so political, if you know what I mean.

Take care.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
91. Wow! I've always wondered who was the other person who voted for those guys (besides me).
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 10:46 AM by lumberjack_jeff
Well said.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
92. Hang in there.
I feel as you do. I'm in CT and Super Tuesday is approaching. I have no freaking clue who to vote for.

Great post. I've enjoyed reading your posts here on DU. You like many Edwards supporters always took the High road.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. If you can still vote your conscience -- do it
It is a statement to the M$M, the party and John that his message was heard, received, and accepted.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. If I was voting my conscience it would be Kucinich.
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 01:11 PM by sellitman
The fact of the matter is a vote for someone not running pragmatically is a waste.

You can waste your vote and let someone else decide who wins but I won't.

The choices we have in life are complicated but I tend to try to keep my feet planted in reality.

Sometime reality sucks.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. Then vote for Dennis
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Like I said...
He ain't running.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. Good words, and thank you.
The Edwards people, are some of the best people I've ever met in my life.
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kelligesq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Still vote for John-give him the POWER - write the name in - or if you want Kucinich
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 01:30 PM by kelligesq
he may or not be on the list in the primary, some will let you write him in,
and some in the primary will not list him, then if your candidate is not on
the list in the General Election, WRITE HIM IN - it's been done since the beginning of elections.

Of course I hope you'll continue to support John and vote for him on Feb 5
here's why:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4309698
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G_Leo_Criley Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Can anyone clarify for me
Can John Edwards possibly garner any more delegates? As far as I know, he can't, but am admittedly unclear about this.

I am well aware that it hurts and will continue to hurt, that John has dropped out of the race. Is it smart for people to use their vote to make themselves feel better? Isn't it important to use your vote in helping to pick a Democratic presidential candidate? John Edwards is already in a position to have input in to the platform and will most likely be appointed to a cabinet position.

We are all in a position to exert pressure on the candidate to have John in his/her cabinet.

I am simply saying that there are now two possible Democratic candidates and that it would be a good idea to be in on the voting for which one it will be, and to let that person know how important it is to us that John Edwards be in the cabinet.


glc

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
103. that goose egg
Here is my track record, Rocky.

Robert Kennedy
George McGovern
Jerry Brown
Mo Udall
Jesse Jackson
Gary Hart
Bill Bradley
Dennis Kucinich
John Edwards

That is a lot of doors, a lot of phone calls. A lot of bitter disappointment.

Now, are we "losers?" I won't speak for myself, but I can say with no hesitation that you are not a loser, and that all of the folks on this thread are not losers.

That means that there must be something else at work, something much larger and more profound, something fundamentally wrong. Are we ready to challenge that yet?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. Wow, don't tell me your favorite baseball team is the Cleavland Indians?
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
105. I used to love that song "When you get lost between the moon and New York City"
and I thinkthat's where we are right now. Your grief is palpable. I am sorry that you are so hurt. Again.

When you are so down, it is hard to eventhink about coming back up again. But here is one little flotilla for your hope to rest upon: John Edwards' ideas will not just go away. We are all here as sentinels for them in this election and for the rest of our lives if need be. So our two candidates remaining know we are there, as sentinels of John Edwards' message and we are watching. We are waiting to see what they will do with them.

They may not mention them in the campaign. That's OK as long as they are there in the administration that one of them will get. We must make sure that our sentinel watch throughout the long night of this campaign will result in waking to a new day for our country.

My best to you, my friend. Va bene...
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
106. Oh Rocky,
:grouphug: Right now, I feel lost.

I feel like the fix is in and we have truly lost our country. IMO, Edwards was our only hope to fight against corporatism and corruption.

I've been called a militant and/or an activist for most of my life. Right now, I don't feel militant nor active. I just feel tired and sad.

During my youth, I saw leaders taken down with high powered rifles. It seems the leaders are still being destroyed sans the rifles.

Maybe America will have to experience the worst before her citizens begin to take back the country for "We The People".

Hang in there, buddy. We're all in this together.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
110. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you for caring about America
Thank you for joining us and inviting us to understand you. That all takes tremendous courage and devotion to the greater good.

I, too am feeling crushed now. Not young anymore, I had hoped to see Edwards turn the tide and start the restoration of the America I knew, the America I wanted to restore for the younger people coming up behind me.

I am feeling like a total failure now, but know we are not the ones who have failed. In my mind, I know the failure is the system that always picks class warfare tactics over decency and real justice. My heart, well, it feels failure and the cost is so very dear to a heart as old as mine.

Take some small spark of hope that you are not alone. None of us really are. The system is tuned to make us feel alone as that keeps most blind to the power of community. But none of us are alone. The sooner we really understand that, the better.

You are one man. You fought hard and have wounds to lick. There is no dishonor in any of that. But know this, and keep it alive in your soul. You are legion.

Be well, Patriot Rocky. Be well in your heart again soon. We have our comrades to lean upon when we struggle and limp from the field. We live to fight another day.

We are legion.
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