Super Delegates: Won't Let the People Make That Stupid Mistake Again by Nominating A Liberal

[orleans]

"The 1972 Democratic National Convention produced George McGovern as the Democratic presidential nominee. Although he won the nomination by a wide margin, he lost the presidency in a landslide to Richard Nixon, winning only one state and 37.5 percent of the popular vote. Because of this, the Democratic Party instituted super delegates as a safeguard to guarantee party control over the nomination process. Political experts say this system was put in place so the party could avoid a mistake by voters in nominating a candidate. "

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:BuQe2E0HbvAJ:www.kptv.com/politics/15065561/detail.html+superdelegates&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=26&gl=us

yes, we wouldn't want another liberal getting the nomination, would we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern

so, thank you superdelegates for being the 796 parents i never had.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate

[Faux pas]

1. Everyday my heart gets a little more shattered. I wanted to

start a class action suit against boosh, et al, for stress. Now I should file one against my own party?? Forewarned is not always forearmed if there's nothing that can be done to stop something from happening. Now all the in-your-face shoving of hrc and obama down our throats makes perfect sense.
:nuke:

[orleans]

2. when i read about the purpose of superdelegates

and then see the impact msm has to marginalize candidates, i wonder why i would vote in the primary at all.

does our vote matter at all? it doesn't look like it.

[Faux pas]

3. I don't think our votes have counted since Kennedy.

This needs more recs, and I'm only allowed one.

Did you see this thread:
If you believe the media manipulates campaigns, sign this please!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2789511

[orleans]

4. thanks. and thanks for the link to that other post n/t

[Faux pas]

8. You're welcome, for sure orleans.

:)

[Triana]

9. SIGNED - click on "join this action" on the Right to sign on to the lawsuit (n/t)

[Faux pas]

40. Thank you for the extra info. We don't want anyone here to miss

out on this petition.

[orleans]

6. malloy is talking about voting for kucinich if his name is still on the ballot

or edwards

i'm thinking i'll sit out the primary

[tavalon]

15. Of course it does.

I wrote something before the primary "race" heated up in which I said that HRC was anointed already. I lost that perspective after the Iowa caucus, I'm embarrassed to say, and actually joined in to the dog and pony show for a bit. I'm going to "vote" but I'm chagrined that I got taken in. It will be nice to have a female President on the eve of the end of our nation. It would have sucked to have our full run, never selecting a female or a minority. So, she has my "vote" but not my heart.

I use parentheses a lot in this post because I hate being lied to and I hate lying to others. The terms "vote" and "elected" and many others of that ilk had and have no place in fascism and even though this brand includes the illusion of choice, I won't lie for them.

[K Gardner]

5. K&R. It has all been decided for quite some time now.

[izzybeans]

7. "avoid a mistake by voters"

That's what Putin's doing too.

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Yet the superdelegates were dumb enough to give Mondale the nomination

Who lost by almost as wide of a margin as McGovern did. Both party insiders and party outsiders can pick losing candidates. Hart would've been competitive against Raygun in '84 and would've crushed Bush in '88.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

12. BINGO FOR YOU, REMEMBER THE MEDIA IS THE PROPAGANDIST

[HowHasItComeToThis]

13. BINGO FOR YOU, REMEMBER THE MEDIA IS THE PROPAGANDIST

DON'T KNOW HOW I GOT A DUPILCATE, BUT IT IS TRUE

[MonkeyFunk]

18. No

the superdelegates did NOT give the nomination to Mondale. He won the primaries.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. They had the option to throw it to either candidate

And they picked Mondale.

I'm not saying that Hart won more primary delegates or that he was cheated out of the nomination. I'm saying that it was a brokered convention and they had the option to throw it either way. They threw it to a 49 state loser.

[Hart2008]

21. Hart won more primaries. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

22. Doesn't matter really

It was a brokered convention. Hart won more primaries, Mondale had more pledged delegates. The super delegates had the option to throw it either way. They threw it to the 49 state loser.

The point I was making is that party outsiders don't have a monopoly on picking 49 state losers. Party insiders can be just as bad at picking nominees sometimes as well.

[Hart2008]

24. The super delegates were with Mondale from day 1. They didn't wait for the convention to choose.

Some people prefer to lose elections in order to keep their own power base.

The purpose of the super Delegates was to pick a winner. They ignored the polls showing that Hart was a much stronger candidate.

I won't argue with Monkey Funk, because he likes to nominate 49 state losers.

He is in the Clinton camp now.

[MonkeyFunk]

26. The superdelegates went

with the candidate who won the primaries. What's wrong with that?

You want the 2nd place guy to get the nomination?

[Hippo_Tron]

28. He was short the needed amount of delegates to get the nomination w/o super delegates

Mondale didn't win a majority of delegates he won a plurality and a plurality does not a winner make as per the rules.

[Hart2008]

30. Mondale kept losing primaries, but gaining delegates.

He sucked up almost every super delegates there was, plus delegates from folded campaigns.

There were also three primaries where he lost the beauty contest, but got the most delegates from the caucuses.

It was an insiders game for Mondale. I have yet to see any evidence that he had more pledged delegates.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. Mondale had 2191 delegates at the end

Hart has 1200

But why does it matter? You think Hart would've beat Reagan in '84?

[Hart2008]

36. Yes, and at worst it would have been close, no 49 state loss.

Polls after the New Hampshire primary and at the convention showed Hart beating Reagan while Mondale was a sure loser. Yet the superdelates, who were created to prevent another 49 state loss, choose the 49 state loser, Mondale. Mondale's loss was even more lopsided in the Electoral College then McGovern's, and was worse considering that the Dem's retained control of the Senate after Nixon's '72 landslide.

The reality ia that Reagan wasn't all that popular before the '84 election.

The '82 recession was the worst since the Great Depression.

It was Mondale and the people who shoved him down our throats who made Reagan look good so good and created this myth around him.

We've been through this argument in another thread.

After the final round of primaries with nearly all of the 500+ superdelegates in his pocket, Mondale was still 40 delegates short of the nomination. After he locked up the 40 more delegates, others jumped on his bandwagon at the convention.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. You keep ignoring my point -

Mondale won the "popular vote", as it were. The superdelegates went along with that choice.

You're arguing that the superdelegates SHOULD have ignored the popular choice and chosen Hart, in a thread that argues superdelegates are, by nature, undemocratic.

But the superdelegates have NEVER given the nomination to anyone other than the winner of the primaries. So you're arguing that they SHOULD be undemocratic, and actively so.

[Hart2008]

41. YOU are ignoring my point. The superdelegates didn't do the job for which they were created.

The purpose for which the superdelegates were created was to prevent another electoral disaster like '72. My point is that by choosing Mondale, who lost 49 states in the largest Electoral College defeat in U.S. history, over Hart, Jesse Jackson, or even John Glenn, (who won more delegates in the primaries than appear on the final convention vote), the superdelegates failed to fulfill the role for which they were created, i.e., to prevent another embarrassing, lopsided Presidential defeat. To wit:

1984 Rules: In 1982, the DNC adopted several changes in the nominating process. They had been proposed by the party's Commission on Presidential Nominations, which was established in 1980 and led by Gov. James Hunt of North Carolina. The party created a new group of "SUPERDELEGATES," party and elected officials who would go to the 1984 convention "uncommitted" and cast about 14% of the ballots. (This was a continuation of the effort to bring the experienced, more MODERATE members of the party to the convention to act as a "ballast" against the passions of other delegates.)

In 1984, this had the effect of stabilizing support for "establishment" candidate Walter Mondale over "insurgent" candidates Gary Hart and Jesse Jackson.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/conventions/chicago/facts/rules/index.shtml

You keep ranting about how Mondale "won" the popular vote.

I am still waiting for you to explain how Mondale won the popular vote.

Hart won the most primaries. John Glenn and Jesse Jackson were also winning delegates.

The only online resource I have found about the '84 primary states,

Hart won a primary in Wisconsin but Mondale won the caucus; Jackson was ahead in the first caucuses in Mississippi and Virginia but much of his support was concentrated in a limited number of counties and in later stages Mondale won). Usually, by the time of the convention, many states' delegates have been switched to the obvious front-runner, so maps based on convention votes would appear less competitive.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/8088/Dem1984.html

Again, by the time of the convention, many states' delegates have been switched to the obvious front-runner, so maps based on convention votes would appear less competitive.

You post no authority to contradict this. Your only citation is the Wikipedia convention final votes, WHICH DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT MANY STATES DELEGATIONS WERE SWITCHED TO MONDALE BY THE TIME OF THE CONVENTION. You ASS/U/ME that the final convention delegate vote totals were constant throughout the process, when in fact they were changed.

Your assumption is incorrect, as is your "spin" on my point is something different than what it is:
Without the superdelegates, we probably wouldn't have got stuck with Mondale. Hart and Jackson combined for more non-superdelegates than Mondale had at the convention. (I am ignoring what happened to the delegates for Glenn and others that Mondale never "won" in primaries.) Without the superdelegates, Mondale would have needed to cut a deal with Hart or Jackson for their support, or lacking promised patronage, Mondale's delegates might have deserted him for a more electable candidate.

The superdelegates now exist to put a stamp of approval on the party's nominee so that simple minded people think that nominee "won" a majority of delegates, when he clearly did not. When that superdelegate selected nominee loses 49 states, or an otherwise winnable election, the system is not working since the idea is for the party to select a nominee who can actually win an election.

You of course have a different opinion. You want to defend the process that gave us the worst defeat in the Electoral College ever.

:dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce:

[MonkeyFunk]

42. Because they didn't have a crystal ball

they didn't know the future outcome.

And why are you harping on who won the most states? That's the most idiotic argument there is. Should we change the presidential election to just whoever can win 26 states? No. Land doesn't vote, people do.

So Hart won a bunch of smaller states. So what? Mondale won the vote, and the delegates. The superdelegates did the RIGHT thing, even though it wasn't what you want.

And how do you know Hart wouldn't lose 50 states? You can't say they did the wrong thing based on the outcome months later. they elected the candidate who got the most votes - that's democracy for ya.

[Hart2008]

43. You want to defend the process that gave us the worst defeat in the Electoral College ever

Mondale started out with over 500 superdelegates before the first caucus in Iowa. They affected everything, including other caucuses and primaries. Democracy is that everyone starts out at 0. When one candidate starts at 0 and the other starts at 500, it isn't democracy.

When those 500+ superdelegates ignore the polls and nominate the worst possible candidate, only an idiot would say it was the right thing to do.

Stupid is as stupid does.

:dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce::dunce:

[MonkeyFunk]

44. HE WON!!!

He won the votes of the people!!

God, this is the most insane debate I've had here in a long time, and over a 24-year old grudge!

And FYI, I voted for Hart that year.

[Hart2008]

45. Mondale lost 49 states. HE LOST! THE PARTY LOST!

Mondale won the delegates, but not the votes.

The superdelegates didn't do the job they were created to do.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different result.

Dem's don't know how to win Presidential elections.

The party won more when there were real fights at the conventions.

Some of us want to win elections.

[MonkeyFunk]

31. yes

he was 40 short

Mathematically, if EVERY superdelegate had gone to Hart, Hart could've gotten it.

But that was never gonna happen. Mondale had been VP! He got the lion's share of the delegates during the primaries.

I find it odd that in a thread complaining that superdelegates are undemocratic, that someone's arguing that the superdelegates should've overturned the will of the voters in '84 and installed the guy who came in 2nd.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. No it wasn't a brokered convention

The last brokered dem convention was in 1952.

Mondale had secured more than enough delegates before the convention.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. Correct about the convention but Mondale was short the delegates needed to secure the nomination

[MonkeyFunk]

32. yes.

40 short. Hart was many hundreds short.

The winner got the nomination.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. I believe he had many superdelegates in the total that left him 40 short

And unlike other people on this thread I'm not arguing about how democratic or undemocratic the process is. I'm just pointing out that both the establishment and the grassroots can wind up backing complete losers.

[Hart2008]

37. Correct, Mondale started out with over 500 superdelegates. He was still short at the end in June.

After the last day of primaries, California and New Jersey, Mondale was 40 delegates short. He get 40 more superdelegates then to lock up the nomination.

[MonkeyFunk]

23. So?

Mondale won more delegates. A lot more.

[Hart2008]

29. Bought off, perhaps, but not won. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

33. In the primaries...

you know, where people vote... Mondale won a lot more delegates than Hart.

[Hart2008]

38. No, Hart won the primaries, 26. Mondale won the caucuses and the superdelegates.

In some states, the state parties nullified the primary results, won by Hart of Jackson, in favor of caucuses which Mondale won. So people's votes didn't count in Wisconsin, Virginia, and elsewhere.

The party also changed the rules after the '84 race, which benefited Jesse Jackson in '88.

[readmoreoften]

11. So really only people in South Carolina, Iowa, and New Hampshire vote for our candidate.

Then the Superdelegates are chosen and the anointed insider does one round of boxing and then plays dead. And I'm getting heat for questioning whether I should vote for a presidential candidate when I vote for my local Dems?

I've been playing a slot machine that rigged to never pay off.

[tavalon]

16. It's one of those "just in casers", like choosing to "be saved",

just in case the religious whackadoos are right. "Vote" for the Democratic "candidate" and then look for ways to subvert the fascists who have infiltrated all the areas of our government and media. The long term solutions no longer come from the ballot box (if they ever did) but just in case the Democratic whackadoos are right, it's well, pretty benign insurance.

[arikara]

14. That's disgusting.

Makes a mockery of so-called "democracy". Not that the word has any meaning anymore but still...

[New Dawn]

17. "Superdelegates" -- another US anti-democratic "tradition"

Just like the "Electoral College" selects our president, rather than nationwide popular vote deciding the outcome!

[my3boyz]

20. I tell you...

if Obama wins the most amt of delegates (but still relatively close to Clinton) and she ends up taking it because of Super Delegates boy will the party be a mess. I can GUARANTEE African Americans will think they took it from Obama and would not show up to vote in the general election. Hillary would have no chance of winning with AA support.