The Media killed Dean.

[HiramAbiff]

And there is nothing we could do about it. They savaged him because they hated him. They hated his clear voice, they hated his righteous anger, they hated his distain for tyrany.

The Media will now try and kill Kerry. The long knives are coming out. You will never see a savaging like the one we are about to witness. If you thought what happened to Gore was bad, all you need to do is wait.

We Dean supporters need to take ALL the energy we threw behind Dean, increase 100-fold and fought like we have never fought before - behind Kerry.

Fight tooth. Fight Nail. Fight like berserkers. Fight like it is the end of the world - because it will be if George W. Bush is given office again through judicial corruption, purging of voters and electronic vote manipulation.

Give everything you can to Kerry. Money, energy, love, hate, anger, joy, passion. If you gave Dean $50, give Kerry $100.

If one million of us give Kerry $100 a piece, we can match the Republican Blood Money.

If we are to go down at the hands of tyrants, we need to take them down with us. For the sake of the future. This is it. We will not have another shot.

[democratreformed]

1. I hereby promise to give as much as I can when I can

Right now, I'm a little low. But, it should get better soon.

[mac2]

2. Dean lost because, he was Dean....

[nofurylike]

4. petty timing. throw away magnanimity, ah. sad. n/t

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

61. He lost maybe because he had guts and was original....

and quite frankly, most americans are not ready for that.

[nofurylike]

3. THAT is THE POINT HiramAbiff:

"Fight like it is the end of the world - because it will be if George W. Bush is given office again..."
!!!

thank you for crystal clarity


peace!

[Demobrat]

17. So Bush will run on fear of terrorism

and the Dems will run on fear of Bush. Me, I'm buying land in Costa Rica. Adios.

[HiramAbiff]

22. Bush will run on the bloodied backs of the American people,

dead soldiers, oil and Machievelli. He is going to destroy Kerry with the help of the Media. The butchery starts now. Maybe you should give Bush your knife.

[Demobrat]

24. Can't.

I'll need it to open coconuts.

[cosmokramer]

5. You are kidding, right? HE WAS A BAD CANDIDATE. Period.

[Malikshah]

7. That kind of sentiment is not needed

The thread is pointing out a key element from the past election.

Sorry that some folks can't get past their pettiness to see that.

[cosmokramer]

18. Neither is your 'blame the media' sentiment.

It is ridiculous. Dean had mistakes and misteps galore! Blaming the media is just silly.

[Demobrat]

19. So the media wasn't ignoring Clark.

I didn't think so.

[cosmokramer]

32. What does Clark have to do with the ridiculous theory that the Media...

...destroyed Dean?

The media didn't destroy Clark, and they didn't destroy Dean.

In fact, all through December, Dean got a free ride.

Was Clark ignored? Maybe. But it was up to his campaign to garner media attention, and they did not effectively accomplish this.

It wasn't the media's 'fault'. Just like Dean's demise was not the media's fault.

Dean killed himself, and Clark's campaign killed Clark.

[Malikshah]

40. Your argument is weak

What's next-- the "whine" image...

Your attack on Dean was gratuitous--hence my response.

This sort of sentiment is counterproductive for all--and should not be allowed to go by without reproach.

Dean's out of the race--has been for a while--and yet you feel the need to attack him more. Where else have we seen *that* method used?

[cosmokramer]

52. And you need to continue to 'attack' the media and blame it on them...

...which should not go without notice.

Dean DID HIMSELF IN, not the media. That isn't an attack.

That is fact.

[CTLawGuy]

82. so, when the media played an admittedly distorted clip

of his IA speech, that was all Deans dault :eyes:

[Indiana Democrat]

23. "Pettines"???

How about REALITY??

Oh woe are the Dean supporters...Everyone is against them.

WHA!

[Malikshah]

41. Woe is you

And your apparent desire to kick dean and dean supporters.

They lost-- another candidate has got the nomination-- and yet you still feel the need to go on the attack?

It's actually quite pathetic--and quite scary, in fact, as this method has been used of late against others.

[HiramAbiff]

12. While Clark on the other hand...

The Media loves our bickering. The Media loves our division. The Media is coming after Kerry. Now.

They have built him up over the past 8 weeks, and now they are going to tear him the fuck down - savagly, gleefully and brutally.

[ShimokitaJer]

26. So I guess we don't need to worry about the media?

Since Kerry is a "good candidate," nothing the media does to him will take hold? I suppose Gore too was a "bad candidate" and thus deserved to be saddled with lies like Love Canal, inventing the internet, etc.? Certainly, Kerry has nothing in his voting record that could be misconstrued as changing his position on an issue, and the media will thus be united in singing his praises as a counter to the Karl Rove smear machine.

You may think what you will about Dean' qualities as a candidate, but if you think his fall from perceived frontrunner to "desperate loser" in the space of the week between Iowa and New Hampshire had nothing to do with the media's treatment of him, then you are extremely naive. And if you don't think the same thing could happen to Kerry, you aren't paying attention.

[Darth_Kitten]

63. So why did everybody copy him?

Including the frontrunner. :) Is your candidate worse then, since he dropped out before Dean? Just wondering? :shrug:

[Guaranteed]

88. Good question. nt

[daveskilt]

70. whether you think that or not - why alienate his fabulous supporters

They are absolutely amazing. Activism on a scale rarely seen - now lets see them working for Kerry (whether they like him or not) as so many of them are now doing. So why rub salt in their wounds.

Dean was great for politics, great for the party and great for America. He wasnt my candidate, but I wish he had lasted longer because he shaped the race in many good ways

[Guaranteed]

87. PERIOD! Oh...and your reasoning?

That's right, you don't have one. Just call him "unelectable" and leave it at that.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Video killed the radio star...

Sorry. No offense, or even substance, intended. The thread title put the song in my head. :)

[VelmaD]

9. ACK

Phillybri got "Father Figure" stuck in my head on another thread and now I'm gonna have that circling in my brain with "Video Killed the Radio Star" all afternoon. *pokes brain with ice pick to MAKE IT STOP* ;)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. you can't rewind we've gone too far

oh. ah ah ah oh. :hi:

[West Coast Democrat]

14. For some reason your post reminded me of........

something I heard one TV pundit say......he compared Dean to a bad internet date....the person sounds really good online, then you get to know him in person, and he then he isn't so great afterall.

[David Dunham]

8. I'll give Kerry $500 gradually over next 4 months.

[liberalnurse]

13. The DLC and media killed Howard Dean.

I won't give kerry once red cent. He wants to go it alone with his rich insiders, then let him.

[Demobrat]

15. Kerry the pushpolling plaigarist

will not get a dime from me. And no, he will not get my vote. No more lesser of two evils for me. That's over.

[HiramAbiff]

20. Maybe you should just give money to Clear Channel or CNN

That is the best way to ensure Kerry dies a quick death.

[Demobrat]

27. I couldn't care less what happens to Kerry.

And I'll be keeping my money in my pocket from now on.

[HiramAbiff]

35. If Kerry loses, your money will start going to propagate religious ideas

that you do not adhere to. Your money will continue to underwrite international corporations, your money will continue to support the "biggest tactical blunder in history".

Taxes are going to be raised no matter who gets into to office this year. No jobs, no revenue. No taxes on coporations, no revenue. All the tax breaks enacted under Bush have underwritten factories built in India. Corporations are international, you are not. You are stuck here in this country that is just another source of labor that cannot compete because we are too expensive.

Don't think you are going to keep what little money you have now.

[Old and In the Way]

30. 'cuz you got principles!

Must be lonely at the top of Mt. Righteousness

[Demobrat]

47. Not at all.

I'm in excellent company, actually.

[emulatorloo]

34. repug dirty tricks to split dean and kerry camp

reread lies and the lying liars who tell them; you will see it fits the pattern to a capital T.

as to plaigarist - Dean is a democrat, Kerry is a democrat. Their message is the message of the democratic party. Neither of them originated it, and thank god they both have that message

[Demobrat]

51. So it was Repubs who ran the Osama ad.

And Repubs who called Dean supporters at 4am. Bull. Kerry is as bad as Bush.

[emulatorloo]

60. Kerry Campaign Denounced Osama Ad - Robocalls standard Repug Pot Stirring

Robocalls were repugs - it is standard repug operating procedure. Like I say, reread Lies and the lying liars who tell them. . .standard repug pot stirring.

thread re Kerry campaign denouncing Osama ad here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=315016

[regnaD kciN]

84. So, are you saying...

...that the "diehard Kerry supporters" who seem to spend most of their energy trashing Dean (even after he left the race) and his backers are really Republican plants trying to prevent us from forming a united front? Interesting...it would seem like there are a number of prominent long-term DUers (I'm sure some names come immedately to mind) who must really be Bush moles. Hmmmmm...

[ArkDem]

16. AROD

.

[Indiana Democrat]

21. DEAN KILLED DEAN!!!!

Good GOD!

Believing in conspiracy theories is SO 9-12.

[deutsey]

25. There were certainly missteps and mistakes by Dean

but I think it's been more than established that corporate media was pivotal in destroying Dean's candidacy.

There were other reasons, too, but, honestly, I'm not dwelling on the past. I'm more interested in maintaining the sizable grassroots involvement that I helped to grow in my community.

[chocolateeater]

28. Did you read the whole post

or just the headline? He is trying to get fellow Dean supporters to support Kerry. That is what you want, isn't it?

[Indiana Democrat]

31. What I REALLY want is...

...for all this defeatist CRAP to GO AWAY!!!

If we're to believe the Big Bad Media took Dean down, based on his numbers before they launched their conspiracy, Senator Kerry doesn't stand a chance...He'll lose by 20 points!!

DEAN destroyed DEAN!

Kerry will WIN for Kerry!

[deutsey]

36. "Kerry will WIN for Kerry!"

Let's hope he wins for the rest of us, too.

[chocolateeater]

45. It is not Defeatist to plan for hostile Media.

Kerry will have one advantage in dealing with this, that Dean did not. He will have the party united behind him. Even so, we will have to fight to get our message out.

[janx]

66. That has absolutely nothing to do with the point of this thread.

Or do you not realize that?

[Darth_Kitten]

68. Kerry's support is still soft.

Dean's never was. :D The media did tear Dean down, I mean why go after Dean's alleged verbal missteps when they had Teresa Heinz Kerry to go after? ;)

This is fun. :evilgrin:

[RetroLounge]

71. Careful with that truth

"Senator Kerry doesn't stand a chance...He'll lose by 20 points!"

The preceding was an example of taking quotes out of context. We now return you to our regular Dean bashing.

[HiramAbiff]

29. And Kerry will die too

Watch. The fix is in. We don't stand a chance. No money, no media, no hope.

Haven't you witnessed the "build up/tear cycle" enough times to recognize a pattern?

[Indiana Democrat]

33. If you believe that then...

...I've got no time for you or your kind.

[HiramAbiff]

37. I don't care if you believe me or not

All I ask is that you fight as if I am right and everything depends on ripping down the tyrant currently in office.

[Crunchy Frog]

46. So, he is advocating fighting tooth and nail

for Kerry against a media machine that has a proven track record of tearing down Democrats, and you find that objectionable because he originally supported a different candidate? Whatever.

If you don't believe what he says about what the media does to Democrats you might be interested in reading What Liberal Media by Eric Alterman, as well as Al Franken's book. They both talk alot about how the media savaged Gore and gave Bush a free pass, with alot of documentation.

Those who don't expect the media to begin tearing into Kerry are in for a rude surprise soon I think. They would do it to any Democratic nominee. I agree that we should all be proactive on this and support Kerry any way we can. Even if we did support someone else.

[janx]

65. Exactly, Crunchy!

That seemed to be the point of this thread, didn't it? People get off track so often during these discussions.

The media had a large hand in wasting Howard Dean. It has been known to trash our candidates before. And it will undoubtedly trash Kerry with a vengeance. We should be prepared.

Just because Kerry received huge financial support from the media for his primary run, it doesn't necessarily follow that they won't savage him badly. They'll take money wherever and whenever they can.

Kerry needs, more than anything, a HUGE rapid response team to deal with media. Dean had one, but it wasn't big enough to counter what they eventually did.

[salin]

50. question... do you think Indiana will go for Kerry?

because the perspective of how hard folks have to work... (including watching and responding to type of media coverage) is different in close states (having lived in Michigan and California during the two Clinton campaigns) than it is in a state with no shot at the top (as has been the case when I have as I will this year vote in Indiana). That different perspective might be contributing to the poster's message, and to your response.

I could be wrong... but I don't see Indiana going for Kerry - or any democrat. Good shot at Kernan, shoe in for Bayh, and we will see on down the ticket.

[Old and In the Way]

39. That's the attitude Hiram!

Start the mantra early and repeat often, "Kerry can't win".

Disregard the fact that Kerry has 9-10% lead on Bush. Forget that people want Bush and this war profiteering administration out.

I hope you won't be disappointed when your predictions are dashed by the voting decisions of the vast majority of Americans who want change.

[emulatorloo]

38. Thanks for your post - I appreciated it

Will do what I can, am way short now, but things will be better soon. And can certainly give my time.

[w4rma]

42. I am in full agreement, HiramAbiff. The GOP has already started saying

that this will be the dirtiest election in recent history. And I believe that they will endevor to make this the dirtiest election in recent history.

And to the, imho naive, folks on this threa who think that the media is neutral. Ask yourselves what liberal political commentator is on TV right now? None. How big is the market share of Clear Channel and how much CC airtime is given to liberals vs. conservatives? about 50% market share and the ratio of airtime for conservatives vs. liberals has to be like 100 to 1 in favor of Rush, Hannity, O'Reily, Savage, etc.

[tobius]

43. "media killed Dean", bush=end of the world ??

where do you go from there, not much more hyperbole left.
go down at the hands of tyrants....we will not have another shot.

Your one step away from swallowing one of the many hip conspiracy theories floating around.

[ibegurpard]

44. With more than a little help from the Democratic Party power-brokers

On edit: And partly because of this, the nominee they backed won't get a fucking dime from me.

[ozone_man]

48. Kerry is not worth fighting for.

He lost my vote for sure when I discovered that he had a hand in that Osama ad. The IWR vote and his buying the election with his $6M dollar house mortgage sealed that decision. Not a nickel of my money will go to paying Kerry's mortgage for him. I've got one already.

[Nederland]

49. Question

I understand disgust with being involved with the Osama ad, but what's so bad about putting up some of your own money?

[ozone_man]

54. Kerry cancelled the investment I made

in Dean by underhanded politics and using $6M of his own wealth instead of raising money from small contributors. I could never support such a scoundrel anymore than I could support Bush with contributions.

[Nederland]

55. Its HIS money

What gives you the right to tell him what he can and cannot do with it?

[candy331]

57. Fear! fear, fear, and more fear is ruling the country now

just jump on the bandwagon of fear and step right in line with all the rest of the fear mongers. If a nation of almost 300 million people lay down and let one man ruin it then so be it. All of his (Bush) enablers are the real problem with few "free from fear" advocates standing up in opposition. Only we the citizens have the power to take back the country and secure real change and until we realize it we are the real losers.

[molly]

62. OMG - come back tomorrow and read your own post

[ArkDem]

53. Please! Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion!

Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who.

[Nederland]

56. Monty Python Rocks (nt)

[ArkDem]

89. astute observation...

.

[earthsea wizard]

58. This Is EXACTLY What I Saw When I Wrote That DU Is Pushing Me Towards Dean

The original poster is trying to build bridges, and some people aren't interested in bridges. They want to gloat, to feed on sorrow and destruction, to stop the foundations of coalitions.

This is why Dean supporters will find it hard to support Kerry.

[Vittorio]

59. Dean killed Dean.

It's time to move on.

[MessiahRp]

64. This reminds me of the WWE "Bret Screwed Bret" argument

:)

Oh and I totally agree with the Dean killed Dean thing. His personality was too raw for most voters and that whole "Presidential" appearance vibe is a big deal. If you don't sound "Presidential" and dignified, forget your chances no matter how much your anger can galvanize and organize a party.

That's the brunt of it.

Rp

[janx]

67. But that's not even close to the original point of this thread.

.

[Vittorio]

80. Vinnie Mac screwed Bret.

:)

[solinvictus]

69. Kerry vs. Bush

My issue with John Kerry is that he's a heeled insider much like Bush who was born into privilege. Much like 2000, we the voters have a choice between two children of wealth. I've become disillusioned with the entire electoral process because of this.

[George_Bonanza]

72. I agree that the media killed Dean, just like they killed Gore...

But where I disagree strongly is that the media had a secret agenda, atypical from their other, routine tear-downs against Howard Dean. I feel that that is simply a last-ditch attempt to gain some kind of self-righteous pomp out of a great campaign that fell down very quickly. Look, the media loves tearing down guys. They almost did it to Kerry, they did it to Gore, and they've done it many more times. But unless there's something more than resentment and anger, the conspiracy theorists need to provide more solid proof that the media purposely went after Dean for reasons other than that he was the clear and cut front-runner raising records amounts of cash. And no, gut feelings are not reliable sources.

You must also remember that Dean's post-Iowa tirade was hugely popular on late night comedian shows, where a lot of the more uninterested voters get their early primary news. So perhaps it's more right to blame Stewart, Leno, and Letterman rather than CNN.

[janx]

74. They "almost did it to Kerry" ??

They haven't even started.

That's the point!

[George_Bonanza]

75. Yes they did

By ignoring him in favour of Dean during the summer and fall of 2003, and by propagating the typical labels of being aloof and elitist.

[janx]

78. You have NO IDEA of what is about to happen.

That's the point of this thread.

[RummyTheDummy]

73. Oh dear God. Another one of THESE threads.

Good to see Dean supporters have come to grips with his failure as a campaigner.

[dionysus]

76. ah, you got the cup of salt to rub into our wounds...

makes you feel good, eh? we must not be real dems?

[Tank in Texas]

77. The Media and the DNC Boss System...

... killed Dean, Gephardt, Edwards and Clark. We really need to change the Primary system the next time around. Did McAullife really pick the right guy? Who knows.

I hate it that Kerry seems to be peaking NOW rather than later in the year. I hope that the Dem nominee can get a big boost from the convention in August. Wouldn't it be interesting if we captured Osama about that time...

[Walt Starr]

79. Kerry gets my vote by default

Nothng more, nothing less.

Just one vote, that's all I have for the man.

[Northwind]

81. I would not piss on Kerry if he were on fire

I certainly will not give him money, or anything else.

[Voltaire]

83. HEY!

That's what I always say about BUSH!

[Northwind]

85. Well, there's no discernible difference between them.

So why not?

[Maddy McCall]

86. Dean killed Dean.