Apology to Dean supporters

[WilliamPitt]

I was way out of line last night. Sober, but way out of line. :)

Yes, some of you people piss me off. You will again tomorow, and I'll likely piss you off, too. But my thread last night was over the top and uncalled for, and I apologize.

(For the record, Admin is not making me do this or anything.)

[Padraig18]

1. Apology accepted.

It takes a big man to apologize publicly, Will. I, too, have said some things I now regret having said, and offer my apologies as well.

LET'S EVICT THOSE REPUBLICAN BASTARDS FROM THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE!

:hi:

[wryter2000]

2. Hey, I missed it

How come I always miss the good stuff?

I tell you what...you're forgiven as long as your guy beats Bush.

Gooooooo, Kerry!

[WilliamPitt]

4. I'm glad you missed it

You would not have liked it.

[mistertrickster]

7. Without a little ranting and raving, life wouldn't be worth living.

I always look forward to your thoughts, whether here or on Truthout.org.

[salin]

3. Maybe ya'll can help me keep something more positive

going - that maybe will foster folks starting to be respectful... in the face of the gazillion (or so it seems) sniping threads on the front page this morning... I have to go off-line but kicks for this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x426648 and any other more positive threads (ala how we work together... or the thread on being won over by Kerry... etc.)... 'twould be nice... think of it as penance :D

[WilliamPitt]

6. Actually

I think I'm going to make myself scarce for a little while around here. Karmically, though, you have my support. :)

[salin]

12. I need the physical

help along with karma (we all need good karma)... some folks have to keep that thread (or others like it) kicked up.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. done

[VelmaD]

19. "Around here" meaning GD:Primary...

or "around here" meaning DU generally?

I don't think I even have to tell you I would miss your presence around here and so would a lot of other people. :)

But you gotta do what you gotta do for yourself.

BTW, good on ya for the public apology. :hug:

[liberalnurse]

5. Yes you were.......

I'll consider your apology over a period of time....to measure your sincerity. You tend to have favor with select peers. You don't really get the feedback that the offended party would want to share on the board.


Thanks :smoke:

[WilliamPitt]

11. Suggestion

taken. :smoke:

[jamesinca]

8. I did not see the post

It does take a lot to apologize, that is truly a reflection of your character. Regardless of the comment, today you are the better person.

[Fenris]

9. William

I was surprised by the severity of your post last night. I cannot say that I disagree with your main point, but I do not think it's a good idea to give your detractors red meat either. Perhaps the best thing to be when you are on the winning end is gracious and sympathetic.

Although, as a caveat, I also think some on this board invite wrath sometimes.

Onward to victory.

[JI7]

10. it was WAY out of line

while there were and will continue to be supporters of dean and other candidates who will never accept kerry the fact is that most supporters of howard dean were very kind yesterday and continue to be. they mostly said they will not only vote for kerry but work hard to get him in office. that thread was offensive to these people.

in the future i suggest either responding to anti kerry threads in that thread itself, or replying by posting something pro kerry or in defense of kerry rather start a thread attacking supporters of other candidates.

[meegbear]

13. Link?

Enquiring minds wanna know.

[salin]

15. now there is a surprise

where was the food fight... where was the food fight... am I too late? :evilgrin:

[meegbear]

16. I just got here!

I overslept! Yeah, that's it!

[Cheswick2.0]

14. Oh for God's sake, who cares?

LOL :eyes:

[w4rma]

18. I care.

Thank you for starting this thread, Mr. Pitt.

[revcarol]

17. I'm still angry at you.

You didn't bring the Sam Adams beer to the party.

[wndycty]

20. Big of you Will. . .

. . .during the primary process and lot of blood was shed here on the DU. While in poor taste, I don't have a problem with your thread from last night as I am sure many of us wanted to do the same thing against supporters of one candidate or the other, but did not have the guts or were not drunk enough (grin). I also applaud you for apologizing and starting the healing process. At this point it is important for the DU and all Democrats to move forward and support the ticket.

John Kerry has an excellent shot of winning and its important for us to realize the larger objective of removing Bush. Anytime wasted on further trashing Kerry or any of the Democratic candidates is time that could be invested on winning the White House. At this point our biggest challenge is not George W. Bush, its uniting the party and the DU and keeping our eyes on the prize. As a Clark supporter (now 100% behind Kerry) who has lashed out at other candidates' supporters I extend an olive branch to all camps so that we can work together and TAKE BACK THE WHITE HOUSE!!!

[wndycty]

21. PS--Most of us owe each other apologies. . .

Thanks for taking the lead will!

[littlejoe]

77. Amen, brother. I'm guilty too.

[chocolateeater]

22. Apology accepted.

But you are not the only one who posted on that thread who needs to apologize. We will not Beat Bush by being petty and cruel to each other.

[VelmaD]

23. You are correct...

and I wait with eager and hopeful aniticipation to see if the other offenders are big enough to come and apologize.

[chocolateeater]

38. I hope they do too. n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. Good of you Will

I never was a Dean supporter though I was sympathetic to him. I agree with your hind sight call about your earlier thread. I can understand how wrote it, but it was a mistake. Mistakes are common, apologies aren't.

[dave29]

25. "I drive a Dodge Stratus!!"

I only hope someone gets my reference from a more famous "Will".

That was the vibe I got from you last night Mr. Pitt. Pretty sad.

Thanks for apologizing, I only wish you didn't have to do it all the time.

This isn't Will's Cathartic Underground.

[wndycty]

27. Lets not act like Will is the only one who has had reason to apologize

Many of us have crossed lines multiple times. It just time to accept apologies and move on.

[dave29]

28. Thanks for the advice

and I accept your apology.

[NoPasaran]

26. I think I was drunk (We won VT!)

But still sensible enough to hide that thread. Gotta love that feature.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mistertrickster]

32. Dude, that's harsh.

You can't mean that.

[VelmaD]

33. I really hope that was a poorly timed joke...

because otherwise you are a grade-A jackass.

Funny how some people have to be obnoxious even on a freakin' apology thread. Sheesh. :eyes:

[deutsey]

39. That's big of you, William

:thumbsup:

PS: OOPS. I responded to the wrong post...I didn't mean for this to go here!

[mistertrickster]

30. I just read the post--it wasn't that bad. If that's what your apologizing

for then I owe you an apology because my response to one of your pro-Kerry posts a couple of months ago was that Kerry had already lost and Dean was the man, and YOU should get over it, hehe.

Funny, somebody forgot to tell the voters.

Anyway, things are gelling pretty fast these days, so come the convention this is all going to be ancient history.




:)

[CWebster]

31. 'Til the next one.

[lojasmo]

34. Yay

I guess you must have gotten some sleep.

[edzontar]

35. Thank you, Mr. Pitt.

I am not pissed at you today.

That took courage.

I hope that some of your colleagues will also see the wisdom in mending rifts and rebuilding our coalition.

[RKO]

37. You're thread was much needed WilliamPitt.

Hopefully those who read it realized the truth of it and will move on now.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

41. "The floggings will continue until morale improves"

Team Pitt Philosophy.

:)

[KoKo]

45. The "Floggings will continue...???" "Team Pitt Philosophy?" WHAT???

I don't believe you said that? That's not a "winning philosophy" that I know of, unless "The Passion" has gotten to you and you are now identifying......Sheesh........:eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

46. Gimme a J!!

J!!!

Gimme an O!!!

O!!!

Gimme a K!!!

K!!!

Gimme an E!!!

E!!!

What's that spell???

JOKE!!!

As in, "That post was a joke. Check the sig line of the person I replied to."

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

54. I don't feel like a loser, and I am not pathetic either.

You are right, Julie.
I don't feel laid waste to either.

Such a sad description of us, really. I feel like we are still fighting, Julie, don't you?

:hi:

[Missy Vixen]

88. Me, three

>Such a sad description of us, really. I feel like we are still fighting, Julie, don't you?<

The other Julie checks in. Yes, you are right, madfloridian, and it continues.

There have been some utterly unforgivable things said over the past few weeks. There always seems to be an excuse for the behavior.

I'm tired of the excuses.

Julie

[Forkboy]

58. I stand by my deleted post from last week

regarding Will.

And you are totally correct Julie.

[Malikshah]

53. Bingo

Thanks Julie-- this has become a pattern. A tiresome one. One that is quite contagiouse too.

Oh well.

As long as we learn and remember.

[hippiechick]

62. Kudos

Thank you, Julie ... the "I'll huff and I'll huff and I'll blow your house down (til I get over my ego trip then I'll beg for forgiveness)" IS getting really old ...


Pitt, you have my utmost respect as a scholar, author and citizen activist ... but the grandstanding is a BIG turnoff.


:hippie:

[maxanne]

42. well

I'd have found your comments forgiveable if you were drunk - I have great affinity and empathy for drunks.

You were once a nice young man, Will. I hope you'll take some time to reflect on the things you said in that thread, and why you felt compelled to say some of them.

[LuminousX]

43. Ah, baby, I didn't mean to hit you, I won't do it again.

[VelmaD]

44. OK, that and the abuse comment from JNelson are way out of line

Arguing on a bulletin board is VASTLY different from actually physically abusing someone.

[unfrigginreal]

47. I wonder if being an online groupie is much different than offline?

Know anyone I can ask?

[ibegurpard]

48. ROFLMAO!!!

:yourock:

[hippiechick]

63. I wondered that myself ...

a time or two :evilgrin:


:hippie:

[VelmaD]

50. Not a groupie...just his friend

:eyes:

Friends stand up for each other. He would do the same for me.

[Forkboy]

61. It's good to stand up for friends

but that doesn't mean they are always right.When someone is blatantly wrong a true friend has the guts to point it out,not coddle them.

[VelmaD]

65. When my friends are wrong I call them on it...

Whether I have issues with Will about last night is immaterial at this point...if I did I don't think a thread where he's trying to apologize is the place to air that out in public.

[JNelson6563]

78. No, no difference

There are personalities who like to dominate, manipulate and psychologically abuse. Then there are personalities who are drawn to those. Often times those drawn to abusers were in some way abused themselves. Remember, humans are drawn to what is familiar. Even if it's not something normally considered pleasant, we're often prone to stick to what we know. It's less scary than the unknown.

Both personality types are worthy of pity and in need of help.

Julie

[VelmaD]

81. While what you said is technically correct...

I sincerely hope that post was not in any way, shape, or form directed at me given that the initial post about "groupies" seems to have been aimed at me.

My presumption that some people on this thread do know Will has been pointed out to me but I know for a fact that you do not know me.

[JNelson6563]

116. Nope I don't know you

It's behavior types I am familiar with. ;-)

Julie

52. reasonable people can differ

So I'll take the risk of commenting.

The question is whether a pattern of behavior in one venue is analogous to a pattern of behavior in another. Since I don't know Will, I wouldn't know in the specific case here at hand.

On the general point, however, I think that at least in a relationship, verbal abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse.
In some sense, DU & the members here are in a relationship. Each member to a differing degree of course. Since it is my understanding that DU has as one of its seminal premises an attempt to create a safe haven for discussion, it should not be a surprise when individuals express concern about the tenor of such discussion or take personal offense.

On either side of a quarrel.

[VelmaD]

64. Now this could be an interesting conversation...

maybe for a completely separate thread. I do not consider myself to have a "relationship" with the vast majority of my fellow DUers. I think there is a substantial difference between relationships in real life and what happens online. For one thing it is very easy to walk away when you don't agree with someone online. If people don't want to listen to me or Will or whoever then they don't have to. There's not even the possibility of coercion or threat.

I do agree that one of the goals of DU is to create a safe space for liberals to come together to talk. But I don't think that's the goal of the people beating up on Will in this thread. I too often see people on this board who claim to support the idea of a safe space...but only when it's for ideas that that they agree with. If they don't like you or don't like what you have to say they can be as nasty as all get out. My personally I'd rather have an open dialogue than a safe one. But that's just me.

I feel like I'm rambling...like I said, this is probably a topic for a completely separate thread and a day when I've had more sleep. :)

69. I'll let you have some sleep

if that's what you need.
:)

[VelmaD]

70. Thanks...unfortunately I'm at work for several more hours...

and contrary to popular belief us State employees do actually stay awake on the job. :)

I had a rough day yesterday and a rougher night last night for reasons totally unrelated to the primaries. I may well be be meaner on this thread than I intend to be and if I am I apologize. I have a much shorter fuse when it comes to percieved attacks on my friends than I do when people pick at me.

I'm more than willing to have the conversation at some point though. I'm a people watcher at heart and I find the dynamics of DU endlessly fascinating and I have lots and lots of thoughts about it. :)

[Malikshah]

55. It's not really out of line

The pattern is the same--

Physical abuse
Mental abuse
Emotional abuse

Yes--they are different, and the issues must not be oversimplified, but the pattern of "sorry, my bad" followed soon thereafter by yet another attack, followed by another apology, etc.

After a while--folks need to take a long hard serious look at the M.O. and act accordingly.

I do not believe that there is any accusation of physical abuse being made--but rather that the pattern is quite similar.

And as for this is political discussion--

Well, guess what? Well over 10,000+ have died due to politics in the last couple of years. Politics is not "just politics" anymore.

Any abusive patterns need to be recognized and addressed.

[VelmaD]

67. If you are capable of being emotionally abused...

by someone you don't even know on an internet bulletin board then...you know what, I don't even know how to end this sentence without being a bitch. So I'm just gonna stop there.

[Malikshah]

72. Actually, your enabling of the actions

Does more than enough for me.

The pattern of attacks, if you would take the time to read my responses, was what I was focusing on. These patterns are quite similar in the forms of abuse I mentioned. I also did not equate the diatribe with these kinds of abuse-- I equated the diatribe/apology pattern, though.

There *is* a difference.

[hippiechick]

73. 'by someone you don't know on an internet bulletin board' ...

... that's presumptous of you. Many of us do actually know the author in question.


:hippie:

[CWebster]

56. But the apology wasn't directed at you.

[VelmaD]

57. That is completely beside the point

[CWebster]

71. no it isn't

your efforts to coddle Pitt diffuse the intent of the apology. Along with the other posters on that thread who supported him throughout and continue the same sentiment here.

Most likely, the motivating factor for the apology was fear that the thread might be passed along. Some never learn.

[VelmaD]

74. Couldn't think of a non-obnoxious subject line

There is a difference between coddling Will and calling some of you on your behavior in this thread. Comparing a fight on an internet board to emotional abuse seems a little far-fetched to me. The attempts at amateur psychology on a person you don't know seem a little far-fetched to me.

Read my one post on the thread from last night...it pretty much sums up my opinion on this matter.

That said, I have already stated previously on this thread that I got very little sleep last night and may be being meaner than I intend. If I am I apologize. I have a thinner skin when it comes to attacks on my friends than attacks on myself. But you have to add everything up - in the last 18 hours people have accused one of my friends of being an alcoholic and have made snide comments regarding how he left his last job all without a shred of evidence. And then more of you came along and accused him of being abusive. I hope you can understand how I might be just a wee bit testy about it.

[Forkboy]

59. no Velma

the pattern is EXACTLY the same.

[SidDithers]

111. Maybe, but then you hit ignore. and the pattern goes away...

That's a bit more difficult in real life.

Sid

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VelmaD]

76. I have a degree in Social Work...

I know there are abuses other than physical.

[dave29]

83. Maybe you can explain this pattern then

1) Make offending, offensive or inflammatory Post on DU
2) Accentuate it by being rude to those you have offended
3) Defend your position to the point of absurdity (creating other threads that are a response to a response in your original thread)
4) Fall Asleep
5) Wake up the next day and apologize
6) Say you are going to take some time off from DU
7) Come back a few hours later, defending your behavior
8) Within a few days make another offensive or inflammatory post

It's been a pretty clear pattern for Will, and a few others around these parts - including Dean supporters.

[VelmaD]

85. Well, it's pretty unethical for me...

to go around playing shrink on my friends. :)

If you really want to know why Will does the things he does...ask him.

[dave29]

87. my turn to apologize

I really don't mean to drag you into this. You've done nothing wrong - and on the surface I appreciate Will's apology. It's just it really is a pattern for him - and it gets pretty old.

I admire you sticking up for your friend. I would do the same.

[VelmaD]

90. I apologize as well...

I'm not being the nicest version of me today. And I appreciate your apology a lot. Don't sweat it - I generally drag myself into these things.

I guess where we disagree is on the way we percieve the pattern of behavior that accompanies Will's posts. I've seen people manage to have flamewars with him while he was not even on the board. I think there is a small coterie of people on DU who would argue with him if he said "the sun rises in the West".

I really do think perception plays a big part in things. I usually find Will amusing when he's ascerbic - probably explains why we're friends. Other people can look at the exact same posts and think he's being an obnoxious ass. I don't know how to reconcile those two opposed worldviews.

[nofurylike]

51. thank you, Mr Pitt. i admire you again. :) n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

60. William

it was really nothing :) (as the Smiths once sang)

[nolabels]

66. The William Pitt Institute of Higher Learning

I love this place, and what ever you did, I am very pissed off about :D

A MASSIVE, RIGHTEOUS DU PROJECT - HERE AND NOW
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=386951

[Sushi-Lover]

68. Good apology

My view is that perhaps last night was like the primary bachelor party. Everybody has to get it out of their system one last time before the day when they know they will have to show up at the wedding and take the ABB vow. I'm still working on the mental transition from I don't like Kerry for reasons X Y Z to Kerry is our champion in the fight and if I'm polishing some other guys armor I'm not helping the situation.

[WilliamPitt]

80. No, actually it is because I am an abuser.

If you were here, I'd slap you around.

:)

Confused? Check out some of the half-assed psychoanalysis going on in a few posts above.

[VelmaD]

82. Yup...and apparently I'm...

either a groupie or a victim...not sure which. :eyes:

[Malikshah]

91. No, you're a friend sticking up for a friend

Nothing wrong with that in principle.

But to ridicule and rail against those of us that notice a pattern of action and are sick and f*&^ing tired of it-- that's taking it a bit far.

Can folks actually step back and look at what they are saying and gauge the repurcussions of their actions?

Apparently some can't.

[VelmaD]

105. Sorry but I don't think I've ridiculed anyone today...

And as I have stated before, there is more than one pattern that can be inferred from this whole situation depending on one's POV.

I get tired of being repetitive so I will point yet again to my only post of the flamewar last night - it states a lot of what I think about the people who seem to follow Will around just to fight with him.

[Malikshah]

106. Please see below

by someone you don't even know on an internet bulletin board then...you know what, I don't even know how to end this sentence without being a bitch. So I'm just gonna stop there.

There are others, should you like more examples.

I've made my point as have you. Sorry things could not be reconciled.

[VelmaD]

107. The whole point of not finishing that sentence...

was so I wouldn't say something really really offensive. I was trying to be snarky and cute at the same time and obviously missed the mark.

I'm sorry it can't be reconciled as well. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing if we can find a way to do it without being disagreeable. And I'm willing to try if you are.

Maybe we just need to do what LynneSin and I do whenever the subject of football comes up and just take a time out. :)

[Malikshah]

108. I'm game if you are

As long as I don't have to stand in any corner. I just hate that.;-)

[VelmaD]

110. Hee...when I was little my momma...

would always send me and my brother to our rooms and tell us we could come out when we thought we "could act right". I'm thinking we need her around here as a mod sometimes.

I suffered something worse than standing in the corner. I was off this thread for an hour and a half because I was stuck in a staff meeting. Eep. :)

[dave29]

84. If you want full-assed psychoanalysis

I suggest you see a shrink

[Forkboy]

92. This is why some people have a hard time taking you seriously

the most half-assed thing in this thread was the apology that started it all (little smile included).

[WilliamPitt]

95. The little smile

was an acknowledgement to the folks whose only rejoinder to my post last night was to accuse me of being an alcoholic. It was funny, kinda not. If I'm an abuser here on DU, I sure have a lot of company.

[Forkboy]

96. You totally miss the point of the abuser thing

also part of the pattern.

[nolabels]

101. That never worked for me

If this was a Referral about me, I probably might be deserved. I really do come here to learn though. The reference and inference was to the point you really can't learn unless things that don't work are encountered (learning from mistakes, I make them all the time, so slap me again).

I really did mean it as a compliment, and had no idea what went on last night (at work). This is kind of like a button, I read the word Dean and I automatically assume somebody on the attack, so I usually avoid it like the plague. I don't know if it that will ever heal for me and maybe others. I am sorry for you that you find people like me (who can be a little crazy sometimes) that support Dean somebody to be angry with.

I probably would have never made it to this board if I hadn't read a Truth-out by you a long time ago.

At one time I remember you supporting Senator Kerry, I would assume you still do. If this is true, and you would not like me not to put junk or other things on this board(It was the norm here for while). I also don't like putting things up that seem immature. To me the games are over and if you would like my real support for Senator Kerry just give me the word.

It won't be missed I can promise you

P.S. If I don't hear from you, I also will stop posting here at DU
Thank you, and have a good day

[WilliamPitt]

102. It wasn't a referral about you

Read the rest of this thread.

[JNelson6563]

117. You make an excellent point

No, actually it is because I am an abuser

Your words Pitt, not mine. Here's more of your words to help you back up your self-assessment (in case anyone missed them last time):

I can't wait to watch people like you get turned to ash by what is coming at you in the general election. You're pathetic, unable to recognize good press and interesting allies when you see them, and you are going to get laid waste. Win or lose, you are in for a rough road, and I'm going to laugh my ass off watching you. Pathetic. Totally pathetic.

Isn't the written word a beautiful thing? You can refer back to it as often as needed. :hi:

Julie

[DoNotRefill]

79. Unfortunately, Will...

Issuing an apology, while a very nice gesture, can not call back words spoken in haste and anger.

I accept your apology, but will never look on you in the same manner again.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SiobhanClancy]

98. As a human being...what???

What kind of a human being are YOU? A creature of perfection,I don't doubt. I'd be a bit less judgemental,if I were you,and as for these amateur psychologists.....:puke:

[Forkboy]

99. I'm glad you regonize perfection when you gaze upon me

:eyes:

[SiobhanClancy]

100. If I recognize perfection when I gaze upon you.....

it would be my own reflection bouncing off your shiny nose:)

[Forkboy]

103. OMG

Someone finally posted a funny insult to me!

:toast:

That was a good one :)

104. & finally

some humor

[JVS]

86. I'm so sick of these apologies that are a way of getting pats on the back

There have been a series of them in this forum from many different posters, but they are all about the same. Here's the basic run down.

person A: I'm sorry but screw you, I'll do it again! :P
person A's friend: It took a real big man to do that!
Person B (not A's friend): I have difficulty accepting this apology
Person A's friend: you're being petty not to take this heartfelt apology
Person C: Wow I am impressed that person A had the character to apologize
Person Name Removed: post deleted
Person A: I think I'll continue engaging in the behavior for which I have apologized.
Person D: Well then does that mean you are not sorry
Person A: How dare you accuse me of that! How dare you question my integrity!
Person E (another friend of A): It's no big deal, you are forgiven
Person F: hey Person E, weren't you doing the same thing as A for which he/she is now apologizing?
Person E: that's not the point.
Person G: You must accept apologies. To do otherwise is wrong. Even if you doubt them you must accept them.
Person H: These apology threads seem like a thinly veiled attempt to get around the rule not to carry flamewars into new threads.


End result: Flame war reignited.

Parting comment: Think before you type inflammatory garbage in the first place, and if you really are sorry just cease posting the crap. Apologies of this sort do not convey any regret and look like a ploy to have your ego stoked. It is possible to stop doing bad things without making a grand gesture of it.

Edited for typo.

[dave29]

89. Wisdom

It is possible to stop doing bad things without making a grand gesture of it.

So rarely seen around these parts.

Thank you.

[Malikshah]

94. Bingo II: Electric Boogaloo

*Best Valley Girl Voice*

Oh my Gawd! You mean, gasp, a pattern??

Thanks for this-- this is so very spot on.

Guess, I could throw in some self-esteem-based analysis, but that would just start another war.

Thanks, JVS -- a clear voice in the murkiness of GD2004P

[regnaD kciN]

97. I'm sorry...

...so sorry
That I was such a fool
I didn't know
Love could be so cruel
Oh oh oh oh uh-oh oh yes
You tell me mistakes
Are part of being young
But that don't right
The wrong that's been done
(I'm sorry) I'm sorry
(So sorry) So sorry
Please accept my apology
But love is blind
And I was too blind to see.
Oh oh oh oh uh-oh oh yes
You tell me mistakes
Are part of being young
But that don't right
The wrong that's been done
Oh oh oh oh uh-oh oh yes
I'm sorry, so sorry
Please accept my apology
But love was blind
And I was too blind to see
Sorry

Sing it with Brenda, Will! (Anyone know of a nearby karaoke bar?)

[Uzybone]

109. Geez

some of you people are very close to the edge. Now wonder a moderate governor from a nondescript state that nobody knew so easily convinced you that he was going to change the world. Seriously, take a break from DU (and maybe the internet) for a while.

[legin]

112. Hedgehog

:P

[legin]

113. You need to form a 'Hedgehogs Anonymous'

'cause there are a few others here too. :P

[nomatrix]

114. Wait a minute

"The constitution gives every American the inalienable right to make a damn fool of himself."
-- John Ciardi

I am not a supporter of Dean, but was encouraged by his actions. He motivated, spoke out, & gave hope. He was not going to go the distance.

The same is true for all of the other candidates. They also made it very difficult for Rove & Co. to strike. I think they got out the same message in different ways that one candidate would have sounded like a raving lunatic and would crash and burn before the end.

There has been a lot of tension building up on these threads, and I think many have been affected by the differences among us.

Other than the candidates supporters, there are lots of different people here. Some are not American citizens, some are in high school, some voted for Nader, some are brand new to elections, new to this board, and some are just disrupter's.

I would hope that everyone realizes that no matter where you live, the world cannot survive 4 more years, this country cannot afford 4 more years, and I wish everyone who posts on this board could use all there energies to get that message out there.

[goobergunch]

115. Filed.

Judgement deferred for seven days.

[RummyTheDummy]

118. You shouldn't apologize

You reap what you sow and the Dean people sowed plenty of bad karma this summer and fall.

I didn't vote for Kerry, but it's amusing to see them suffer.

(ducking for cover)

[mzmolly]

119. Allow me to apologize in advance ...

for what Im about to say.

First of all, for a writer, it would appear that you lack basic comprehension skills? Allow me to elaborate on my original message.

Here is YOUR post...

"Dean lost.

Edited on Wed Mar-03-04 02:29 AM by WilliamPitt
Time for coping skills.

Time to be a Democrat.

I'll coddle Edwards folk, because their pain is fresh.

But Dean-or-die folk have been out of it for weeks.

Dean lost.

Time for coping skills.

Time to be a Democrat.

My inspiration for this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&...

Actually, I stopped reading your threads so long ago, I was unaware of my apparent *inspiration* for your latest rant... wish I could say I was flattered :eyes:

Allow me to reiterate the obvious message of my thread.

Dean lost-He's no longer a candidate, so move the f-k on...stop bashing Dean/Edwards etc.. as they are not in the race... understand now? I would ask who it is that needs "coping skills"?

In fact, here is MY original post...

What's with the continued venom and bullshit directed at Dean here?

Might I suggest to the geniuses who start these divisive threads, that this is not the best way to gain support for your candidate?

Adding, the anti Edwards threads tonight were equally offensive, and I'm not an Edwards supporter.

All I can say is ... Will your a genius! :hi: ;)

Oh and, Apology accepted.

[DannyRed]

120. Will,

Graciously said.

May I make a suggestion?

You are an excellent writer and political analyst. Your instincts and research skills are well-displayed in your work, your editorials, and your interviews.

I have read a lot of them - truthout, buzzflash, commondreams and etc.

My suggestion is based on the idea that the best form of apology, one that strengthens and cements the general emotions and ideas expressed in words...is concrete action.

In terms of concrete action, well, this is a mostly anonymous forum...so concrete action would involve writing something (which, as I said, you are very good at)...so...why not cement and solidify and augment your apology with a positive action or two?

My suggestion for a positive action involves the following:

1) You are clearly not a Dean supporter and you have had some hard questions and criticisms for the candidate. On the other hand, you have ALSO clearly expressed admiration and respect for the candidate and the campaign he helped create.

2) While you expressed that admiration, it is also clear that for a number of reasons - some apparently personal - you became extremely angry with some particular Dean supporters and a particular...errr...brand?...style? of Dean supporter.

3) It is also clear that you hold dual loyalties to the Idealism of Kucinich - whose positions jibe with nearly everything you have written for public distribution, AND to the pragmatic, "classic liberal Democrat", electable Kerry - whose positions and record is in some cases at odds with your political stances, but is a strong candidate who is far more likely to support "good" than "evil".

Given those three factors, why not attempt to write a strong editorial that outlines what you most liked and dislike about Dean, what you most liked and disliked about his campaign and his supporters, and (here is where I think the positive contribution can be most effective) how you think Dean, the Dean campaign, and the Dean supporters can 1) contribute to the general cause of the Democratic Party in terms of Kerry and the upcoming downticket elections, 2) Keep true to the campaign and the candidate while doing so, and 3) continue pushing for positive, inclusive, widespread growth, evolution, and change in the Democratic Party in the longer term.

Give us your advice, tell us what YOU think you would like to see. Tell us how we can help you achieve your goals, tell us how we can grow and shape what we have helped make into a positive force for progressive change.

If it is well written, not condescending, and heartfelt, I think that such a contribution would be extremely valuable on a number of levels:

1) Practical - you have good political instincts and positions, and you write well and organize your thoughts well. We are serious about change, and serious about change withing the Democratic Party - we want the Democratic Party to be BETTER, to SUCCEED, to attract MORE people from a wider spectrum. Help us!

2) Personal - your intellectual contribution would go a long way toward helping many of us feel better (waaaaaaa, our candidate lost), both about the general process and the general results, and about the tone of some of your...errr...less well-considered ... statements.

Anyway, my $0.02...and apology accepted.

Cheers.