Why do these anti Kerry threads continue?

[chyjo]

Kerry will be the nominee and I am sick of tasting other peoples sour grapes. I thought that when the nominee was decided this forum was supposed to unite but it seems more like it is a place for sore losers to grand stand. anyway here is to Kerry in 2004 the rest of you can take your bratty self indulgent Nader vote.

[hippiechick]

1. way to win friends and influence people, dude ....

:eyes:


:hippie:

[chyjo]

6. it is always funnt when liberals

take a page out of Robber Barons quote books.

[hippiechick]

10. is that all you got ?

:puke:

:hippie:

[chyjo]

12. yup

quoting Carnegie does not impress me. All apologies!

[Ysabel]

44. "liberals"...

hmmmm - interesting...

[paulk]

55. is it really about winning friends and influencing people?

The posters on this board will have no effect on your life in the long run - whomever sits in the White House after November, will...

[liberalnurse]

2. He was shoved down our throats ......

We are just vomiting now......

[eileen_d]

4. ..... and it shows.

:puke:

By the way, that original post is a tad inflammatory. ;)

[CWebster]

5. LOL

:hi:

[lancdem]

7. By whom?

The voters in dozens of primary states?

[salin]

14. my guess

is less talking about the voters in the primaries... and more about the endless sniping between kerry and dean folks. Just a guess.

[CWebster]

20. My opinion of Kerry hasn't changed.

His supporters have nothing to do with it.

[salin]

25. but aren't a whole lot of the

sniping threads - keeping things stoked for a whole lot of people. I can't even count on my hands the number of times in the last week alone that I have read different people making statements about supporters of candidate x or y (most often going back and forth between dean and kerry) making it 'impossible' to support that candidate. Not trying to say there isn't unanimity here... but that we as a community have built up animosity that folks feel compelled to continue... and then wonder why the tone persists.

[liberalnurse]

16. Those votes where what I call the .....

McDonald voters. They don't know any of the issues, they just vote for a familiar name...then proudly wear a little sticker on their lapel to say "I voted today". Many of them may not even show-up come November. I can't see kerry inspiring them at all.

[eileen_d]

21. It's easy to slap a label on people who disagree with you

But it's not a very convincing argument.

If people voted for Kerry in the primaries -- and they were motivated enough to show up for the primaries in the first place -- why on earth wouldn't they vote for him in November?

[liberalnurse]

26. I asked people who were registered to vote, such as

co-workers, folks going to the polls, what they knew about kerry. They couldn't name one issue, but they heard the name......

Voters have been mobilized by the media impact of the Democratic Primaries; that will change now. All we have is kerry's drone tone to fight *bush.

[eileen_d]

32. You are really grasping at straws

We all know that many voters are not experts on issues. But if they are showing up to vote for a Democrat now, what exactly will stop them from showing up to vote for a Democrat in November?

"Voters have been mobilized by the media impact of the Democratic Primaries; that will change now"

So once the primaries are over, Kerry won't get any media coverage? The general election of 2004 doesn't rate as news, and will not mobilize voters? :crazy:

Edited to note that the primaries aren't over (I haven't voted for Kucinich yet) and clarify my final sentence.

[liberalnurse]

35. I think you will be greatly surprised.

Only time will tell. kerry needs folks like me, who mobilize grassroots voting. I'm going to work on local campaigns and sit out the kerry movement on principle.

[eileen_d]

39. "Kerry needs folks like me"

Riiiiiight. Kerry needs people who "mobilize grassroots voting" by calling people who vote for Kerry "McDonald voters" and belittling them for wearing "I Voted" stickers.

Good luck with that! :eyes:

[liberalnurse]

47. My assessment is an accurate one.

Do the survey yourself. And be honest. Interview the everyday voter, not the ones who go to rallies ...but the ones who would rather watch "Survivor" than a speech by a candidate.

Go into a nursing home, interview the nurse aids, nurses and kitchen help. When you go to the grocery, ask the clerks, ask at the laundry mat or at a school function......You'll see.

I dare ya.


And yes, kerry needs folks like me. I donate to the max and am out in the field, educating, motivating and enlisting the voters.

[sangh0]

81. WHat's your assesment of those who abandoned Dean

At one point, Dean was polling in the 30%-40% range in the first two states (IA and NH) and then he dropped. Were all those Dean supporters "McDonald's voters"? IOW, was Dean surge of support based on "McDonald's voters"?

If yes, what does that say about Dean's grassroot movement?

If no, then who abandoned Dean? The die-hards?

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

48. Kerry sure as hell doesn't need people like you

Believe me, he has more than enough enthusiastic organizers. Mabye you didn't notice how he absolutely rolled the other "candidates".

[liberalnurse]

51. Well, he better cause people who ditch

dedicated democrats will be coming up short in November.

[Evil_Dewers]

63. cause people who ditch dedicated democrats

You seem more dedicated to contributing to Kerry's defeat (on principle, of course).

How sad for you.

[liberalnurse]

72. kerry is the looser, which really irritates me.

[Evil_Dewers]

77. kerry is the looser

Well, just as long as he isn't a "loser" in November, I don't care how loose he is.

[kiahzero]

87. Is that like an "unsticker?" (n/t)

[Evil_Dewers]

62. kerry needs folks like me, who mobilize grassroots voting

"I'm going to work on local campaigns and sit out the kerry movement on principle."

Having principle is wrong if that principle is flawed.

[liberalnurse]

74. I won't respect this nominee enough to give my hard earned

time or money. He wants to be an a elite demi-god of the democratic party ....then so be it....he does it with his insider rich buddies.....He is not a true reflection of the American demorcat and he can't beat *bush, mostly due to his arrogrance with the simple man.

[BL_Zebub]

45. That's an easy one to answer....

....many of the primary voters were Republicans, stacking the deck, so to speak, in Junior's favor. They won't be voting for Kerry in November.

[Evil_Dewers]

57. many of the primary voters were Republicans

But they tended to vote for Edwards.

[liberalnurse]

75. Excellent observation.

I noticed that too. Edwards was really loved here in Dayton.

[Evil_Dewers]

78. Edwards was really loved here in Dayton.

McCain got a lot of support from Dems and moderates when he ran against * in the GOP primary.

In the end, it didn't help him win the GOP nomination, though.

[Evil_Dewers]

61. I can't see kerry inspiring them at all.

I see ABB inspiring them.

[ramapo]

15. Shoved down our throats?

Kerry got more votes, way more votes than any other candidate. If you add up all the votes, Kerry likely got more (or close to it) than all the others combined.

That's hardly shoving a candidate down the people's throats. Nobody was forced to vote for Kerry.

Kerry wasn't my first choice but he has won.

So we can choose to support Kerry or help reelect GWB. It's a simple choice.

[Loonman]

31. That's as opposed to:

"If you don't support Dean you aren't a liberal, anyway"

[salin]

40. thank you the two of you

give a demonstration of the self-perpetuating dynamics of which I speak. Funny thing - is that everyone feels so self-righteously justified with not an ounce of responsibility for their role in continuing the dynamic.

[Evil_Dewers]

60. He was shoved down our throats

Hey, I know how you feel. I supported Bradley over Gore.

But I still voted for Gore in the GE. It never occurred to me to vote for Nader or write in Bradley.

I guess I'm not a true liberal or "stupid."

[lancdem]

3. The situation might be different in a few weeks

Some people who strongly supported other candidates are not quite ready to switch their allegiance.

[eileen_d]

11. That is a very diplomatic way of putting it!

Artist-formerly-known-as-diplomats! :hi:

[salin]

8. Sadly... long tradition here

tit for tat spite threads... nasty posts... and folks using broad ugly generalization about supporters of other candidates.

Its like rabbits.

As long as there are taunting threads and posts coming from one direction there will be taunting threads in response coming from the other direction and then a round of sticking poles in eyes from the first direction and so on and so on... kinda like... oh the following language: "take your bratty self indulgent Nader vote."... will just keep the self-righteous sniping cycle going and going.

Go figure.

Been observing and commenting on this ugly, repetitive and completely counterproductive dynamic for a long time. Take it for whatever it is worth.

[chyjo]

18. God forbid

I make Nader Supporters feel uncomfortable. That is my worst nightmare.

[salin]

22. the problem is it isn't the Nader votings you are

catching here... if you look at the responders.. it comes from supporters who feel attacked (and also do some attacking)... based on not being (yet) behind Kerry... and thus inclined to respond. It is all part of the typical broad swiping snide tactics that keep the type of negative/complaining threads that you don't like to see going.

Play into the dynamic... sure... just don't turn around and complain about the dynamic.

[Atlant]

9. The vinegar was being handed out long before Kerry was annointed.

And it was being handed out by the carboy to other candidates'
supporters. Don't expect it to stop now just because "Mr.
Electable" has been annointed.

Atlant

[redqueen]

13. There's this 'X' thingy? On all the threads? Have you seen it?

Try it!

There's also this neat sleeping person icon on each and every post. Click it!

:nopity:

[Iverson]

17. failure to applaud Kerry = Nader vote

There is something bratty and self-indulgent there, but it's not what you originally supposed.

[liberalnurse]

29. No it does not.

Nader is not the issue.

[AntiCoup2K4]

19. There's no nominee until July

And I speak for nobody but myself. Kerry has betrayed his party, his country, and his so called, much exaggerrated "liberal voting record" since the Bush coup.

I'm now supposed to forget all that and call him the Messiah?

I don't think so :grr:

And the pro censorship attitudes of people like yourself sure as Hell aren't gonna win me over.

[chyjo]

24. I don't expect to

then again I suffer from the sad fact that my candidate did not quit on me like Oh say Howard Dean. How does it feel to support a quitter? Tell me please?

[liberalnurse]

33. You don't have your facts at all.

Gephardt, Clark, Lieberman; and soon to be Edwards they all quit. Dean has only suspended his campaign...and continues to gain delegates for the convention.

[chyjo]

37. Yup

Dean will win the nomination any day now. Right? Keep the faith! He won Vermont and as goes Vermont so Goes Utah! He didnt Quit he only suspended! he is so confident he stopped showing up for debates! YAY Dean!

[liberalnurse]

49. You slam Dean with inaccurate data.

You stand corrected.

[Evil_Dewers]

56. Dean has only suspended his campaign...

There are a lot of dead enders in Iraq who blow themselves up out of frustration because Saddam is gone.

[RetroLounge]

66. We wouldn't know.

Dean didn't quit.

[liberalnurse]

30. Agreed.

:yourock:

[jamesinca]

34. You mean get over it and quit crying in your tea cup

I loved it when Kerry said that also. The only reason I will vote for Kerry is because I like Bush even less. I understand the whole thing of a vote for somebody else is an indirect vote for Bush. I understand that Kerry is probably better than Bush. I understand a lot of things. I understand also that I don't care one bit for John Kerry. I have made it a point this morning to be mean and hateful toward Kerry, but I figure he deserves nothing but that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Kerry has betrayed his party, his country, and his so called, much exaggerated "liberal voting record" since the Bush coup."


I agree 100% AntiCoup2k

[WI_DEM]

23. soon enough

DU will impose the general election rules--be patient. However, remember that we are still allowed to criticize Kerry's campaign in a productive way even when these rules take place--we don't have to all fall in line and endorse everything he says.

Also--maybe more respect would come your way if some Kerry people weren't so obnoxious to supporters of other candidates.

[Lorien]

50. Indeed

every Dean supporter had more than their fill of incessant blm attacks.

[DuctapeFatwa]

27. They are just people who oppose bush's policies, as well as bush

Plenty of time after the election to let the Patriot Act take care of them, whoever Diebold smiles on.

[Dhalgren]

46. I agree with you DTF.

Democrats have got to come to grips at some point that this isn't just about personalities. This is about the way the country is operated. Kerry has got to go deeper than "I could do exactly what Bush is doing, only do it better"! That is the bullshit that drives so many of us crazy! We don't want the Democrats doing what the Bush Empire is doing! We want a fundamental change in the direction of this nation, not just a change of Emperor!

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. The process is not over yet

For all we know, Dean, who is still on the ballot, could pick up a few states.

Dennis and Al could do well, too.

Just wait til we get to the end of the process, and then see if Kerry is the nominee.

[Anwen]

36. So...if we don't tremble with joy at the thought of Kerry...

that automatically makes us bratty, self-indulgent Nader lovers? Interesting.

You may be sick of tasting sour grapes, but I find poor winners even more repulsive.

[Tom Rinaldo]

38. Hopefully people are just getting stuff out of their system

A lot of emotions have accumulated over the last year. This is still a relatively harmless time and way to dump it. Kerry was not my guy but he is now. Far as I'm concerned I will gladly give anyone who needs it a week or to to rant and rave if that is what it takes for them to get beyond it and on board for the Fall campaign to oust Bush. It's ugly yes, but no one is dishing any dirt that the Republicans can't get their hands on anyway. Yell now if needed, and hopefully we will all be ready to unite well before the Convention.

[PVnRT]

41. Which ones?

Care to provide evidence of this epidemic? Or did you just find one thread and decide to start a thread you knew would be flamebait?

[salin]

42. funny thing this epidemic... haven't seen one of these threads

(one sarcastic one went up long after this thread began)... all morning... but TWO threads decrying them.

Seems more that the message's point is to sow disention even if on the surface it isn't there.

[Iverson]

43. a modest dissent

The purpose is not to sow dissention. Rather, the purpose - misguidedly - seeks to exhort readers into unanimity of thought. Since Nader is even more of a bete noir than Bush around here, we are supposed to be cowed into becoming Kerry enthusiasts.

It is a fancified combination of bandwagon and appeal to ridicule.

[bobthedrummer]

52. I'm an independent-I don't belong to any political party

I did vote for Nader in 2000, he's not a player this year ABB.
ABB ensures your vote, we don't have to go ga-ga for Kerry-I voted for Kucinich, so did my wife, for instance.
ABB pledge is for Democratic vote only not false enthusiasm for John Kerry.

BTW, your old red herring-Ralph Nader, he's just not worth mentioning here anymore-so grow up!

[ibegurpard]

53. Because a not-insignificant number of people hate his guts.

eom

[KaraokeKarlton]

54. Don't hold your breath

Hell will freeze over before I ever support John Kerry.

[Evil_Dewers]

59. Hell will freeze over before I ever support John Kerry.

I'm sure George Bush thanks you for your support.

[RetroLounge]

67. Wow, How original!!!!

not...

[Evil_Dewers]

80. Wow, How original!!!! not

Wow, you really are retro. "Not" went out of style in the early 1990s.

[KaraokeKarlton]

86. Excuse me, but the fact that I don't support Kerry does NOT

NOT mean that I support Bush. I support neither. I don't support Nader, either. Seeing as I am an Independent it's pointless to act like I "owe" Kerry my vote. I owe him nothing. I don't like him. I don't like Bush either. If the Democratic party wants to secure my vote then they need to nominate someone I like, period.

[Ysabel]

58. scowl...

n/t...

[deutsey]

64. Because we're not like the Republicans

We are the ones who are supposed to like diversity of thought, not marching lockstep behind The Chosen One. I think Kerry supporters should be making the case why people should support Kerry, not expecting everyone to jump in line.

BTW: I've always said I'll support the nominee, so this isn't coming from sour grapes.

[Forkboy]

65. Ah quitcher bitchin

[Nicholas_J]

68. Kerry really doenst need the votes of those with sour grapes

Every poll being taking now shows the he is capable of beating Bush in November without them. The national polls are of registered voters And Kerry is seen beating Bush by a significant margin in polls that include Democrats, Republicans and Independents.

Also these polls reflect a great deal of crossover veote, and indicated that while Bush will recieve a crossover vote of 10 percent of Democrats, Kerry is recieving a crossover vote of between 12 and 15 percent of Republicans, a big minus for Bush, a big plus for Kerry.

The percentage of the sour grapes contingency is quite small anyway, and will amount to far less of a factor than the crossover vote.

In fact, in every poll since New Hampshire, those who voted for Dean indicated that Kerry would be their second choice at three times the rate of Kerry supporters who selected Dean as their second choice.

I am amazed how many people truly beleive that the U.S. should be run on some sort of dictatorship principal with their candidate being shoved down the throat of the majority of Americans to the degree that conspracy theoris must be formed as to why their candidate was not swept into the nomination. With results as low as Deans, the fact is that the American public did not want Dean shoved down their throat, rather than the reverse. The real world, Occams Razor must be applied. THe simplest answer is always the correct one. And the simple answer is that the disconnect between Dean's record and his campaign platform became wider and wider as Dean was subject to more exposure. Kerry's record stood up to that exposure, and his platform is a mirror of his 35 odd years of public life. COnsistantly consistant.

[DuctapeFatwa]

69. Nor does he need the votes of those too poor to scrape up even a few

thou to invest. And he doesn't need the votes OR the money, if they have any, which they usually don't, of those who do not support the crusade.

[molly]

73. Just waiting for an excuse, huh?

[DuctapeFatwa]

79. I do not now nor have I ever needed an excuse to oppose imperialism

No matter what pretty words it is wrapped up in.

[deutsey]

70. Bush hasn't even started yet

Remember how Dukakis was leading Bush I at first. I'm not saying Kerry is another Dukakis, just pointing out that we're going to need everyone who opposes Bush to vote for the nominee. Even then, it's not certain we'll oust Bush. Gore won by half a million votes and would've taken Florida if tens of thousands of Democrats weren't prevented from voting. I find your faith in polls, especially this far away from November, naive.

[Dhalgren]

71. Thanks!

I thought Kerry was going to need every vote he could possibly get, but now I see, from your sage post, that Kerry doesn't need any or our...tainted?...support. Thanks alot, that really frees me up to write in the candidate in Nov. that I've always wanted. Thanks, phweeuee! That is a load off!

[sangh0]

82. Gee, and it seems like only yesterday

you were saying you would vote for Kerry if he is the nominee. Now that it looks likely, you're going to write-in

[deutsey]

83. I believe the poster is sarcastically remarking on the original post

:shrug:

[sangh0]

85. Would you believe that

I am sarcastically remarking on the Dhalgren's post?

[maxanne]

76. catch more flies

with honey than with vinegar.

Two weeks ago, it was endless ABB threads, attempting to bludgeon people into toeing the party line. Now what we see is go cry in your teacups we don't need you posts. Frequently the accusation is made that anyone who isn't falling into line is a Nader supporter to boot.

I haven't seen a handful of Nader supporters here. That's a meaningless accusation.

It's a shame that instead of crowing in victory and abusing others aren't trying some compassion, and understanding. Name calling isn't going to win anyone over. Telling people "we don't need you" isn't a recipe for electoral success. What some of you fail to recognize is that this isn't just a presidential election going on. There are other national, state, and local elections. It's my opinion that we need to oust as many Republicans as possible. Please - go tell my state party they don't need my vote. They seem to think they do. In fact, they seem to think I oughta run for office.

You can't beat people into submission. It won't work. Kindness and empathy are far more persuasive.

[info being]

84. The anti-Kerry threads will never stop...even after he gets elected

This is the Democratic Underground. A lot of us here care more about truth than anything else.

[littlejoe]

88. I haven't really seen any today.