Obligatory handshake post:: Did Hillary try to shake hands with Obama?

[Armstead]

Much is being made of the fact that Obama didn't approach or chake hands with her.

But did she make any pro-active effort to approach him at any point last night?

Enquiring minds want to know.

P.S. I've posted on several substantial issues-based threads todat, so I guess i'm entitled to a little bit of slumming.

[fenriswolf]

1. here is a question

how hard is it to tap someone on the arm to get their attention then offer your hand?

[napi21]

9. If she had done that, some here would be accusing her of assaulting him!

For goodness sake people, let it rest now. It appears to be one juvinile mistake but certainly not a BIG ONE! If that's the ONLY mistake either of them make over the next 9 months, I'll be shocked! Both of them ARE human ya know, and everybody makes mistakes.

[Missy M]

2. He had his back to her so how could she?

[tyne]

7. You mean

when he was talking to Claire as the picture clearly shows?

[MADem]

3. He and Ted were side by side. She headed towards them and he turned away. NT

[lapfog_1]

5. See the SECOND photo of the incident.

Same event, different perspective. Different interpretation.

Even the physical distance between Obama and Clinton is much larger that what the 1st photo suggests.

[MADem]

12. Photo schmoto--the press were there. A hundred of them. They all say the same thing,

pretty much.

I'll take a hundred eyewitnesses over one moment in time. They didn't "interpret." They wrote down who approached, who turned away, who stared off into the distance, who else shook hands with Clinton, and who was rescued from standing there and sulking while this was going on by Claire.

Please. You're flopsweat desperate. I think I will take the play by play descriptions of the reporters over your invented account, thanks anyway.

[lapfog_1]

14. Eye witnesses?

You see the press corp all around them?

Really?

The SOTU is crowded, there is very little press (other than official photographers) ON THE FLOOR.

The press is in the gallery. And that's a LOT farther away than either photographer.

Any PUNDITS that comment on it are simply looking to make a story. Stories sell air time and ink. Clearly the actual speech by shrub didn't give much of anything to write about or yak about. So there is the photo.

Now there is another photo. The second photo shows the same incident from a different perspective shows exactly what Obama said, he was talking to Claire McCaskill... and he was NOT in between Kennedy and Clinton, that was a trick of perspective from the first photo.

[MADem]

17. You cannot possibly be that....unschooled. Or maybe you CAN.

The press gallery is the best seat in the House.

Guess where the photographers were?
Why do you suppose we're looking DOWN on them in those shots?

For people who don't seem to "care" about this matter, you seem awfully .... upset and determined to tamp down discussion.

Every reporter has essentially the same story, with a few minor additions or subtractions. One reporter noted that another reporter indicated that Obama's behavior was "childish." Did the reporter "make that up?" Is it time to pull out a sweaty victim card?

They ones that wrote about it thought it was of sufficient note to mention it. And plenty wrote about it.

Give it up. Obama behaved badly.

[lapfog_1]

26. You are a desperate idiot.

I've been in the gallery of the U.S. House.

Those are not close enough to hear what was said or even who was talking.

You'd need binoculars to even see lips moving.

You folks are the ones that keep posting this "insult" story over and over.

Does even ONE story say that Hillary addressed Obama or offered her hand to him?
Why would it be up to OBAMA to offer to shake hands with Hillary?
She did NOT approach either Ted or Obama, she came over to talk to someone else?

Even the story you so proudly quote says this.

So why was this an insult?

[MADem]

29. Using the schoolyard "rubber glue" tactic with the "desperate" word, there, eh, hotshot?

You read those stories, and you get back to me.

I've provided you proof. Your desperate asking of questions to try to make me do your homework for you ain't gonna cut it.

It's up to you to refute it, and waving a picture against the reports of the Washington Press Corps (LIARS!!! ALL LIARS!!! And they HATE poor Barack!!!! They have it IN for him!!!! WAAAH!) doesn't cut it.

If you don't understand that when someone walks up to you and you turn your back and stare at the wall, that's a "snub" well, I cannot help you.

You are frantic to believe, so you just keep on believing. There, there, now...!!!!

[lapfog_1]

34. Frantic to believe what?

You are the ones frantic to find anything negative to say about Barack.

Look at the number of your posts here.

Smells of desperation to me.

I'm not calling all of the reporters LIARS, just people looking to sell a story. Certainly there was nothing noteworthy in the actual SOTU. So they are looking for a "Britney" story. And this one photo (which is what they are writing about...) is what they got.

When the incident happened before the SOTU, did any on air pundit say anything or even remark on it? And remember that, of the SOTU audience, OBama and Clinton would be the TWO MOST WATCHED. I remember Keith and Tweety going on and on when OBama entered with Ted Kennedy... and later when Hillary entered. So why didn't they catch the incident LIVE when it happened? Why did it wait until the photo was shot up to them?

Oh, because it wasn't a big deal until a "controversy" could be created.

Or are YOU so naive that you think the press wouldn't create a controversy where there might not be one?

[MADem]

37. No I am not. I am speaking about a specific issue.

But you're out there with the broad brush, I see!

I watched on CSPAN where there are no reporters.

You read the news accounts, from a variety of reporters. He did it. He probably regrets it.

[Labors of Hercules]

Now that's just plain bullshit.

Who's firsthand account do you have to go on? The press wants a story and will get behind whatever any one of them says so they can get one.

[MADem]

18. The CNN reporter's account, which I posted in this thread.

Now retract that "bullshit" assertion or I'll have to return the favor.

[JackORoses]

10. you have the facts wrong. Kennedy is the one who approached Hillary.

Obama turned to talk to McCaskill.

[MADem]

13. WRONG. Hillary APPROACHED. Ted REACHED across. Nice try, though.

Before the President entered the House Chamber for the State of the Union address, Clinton took a seat three chairs and an aisle away from Obama. While members of Congress were still greeting one another, Clinton crossed the aisle to speak with Democratic Rep. Jim Langvin of Rhode Island, a Clinton supporter. He was seated in front of Obama.

While Clinton was bent over talking to Langvin, who has been in a wheelchair since age 16, the senator sitting next to Barack Obama watched Clinton intently. It was Sen. Ted Kennedy, who had made a splash by endorsing Obama earlier in the day.

Here’s where it could have happened.

When Clinton straightened up, Kennedy quickly reached across Barack Obama to shake Clinton’s hand. She took it. As they spoke, Obama turned away. Then the senators seated to Obama’s right – Ben Nelson and Ken Salazar — both shook Senator Clinton’s hand and talked to her. Instead of doing the same, Obama turned to look at the back of the room. Sen. Claire McCaskill, who has also endorsed Obama and was seated next to Kennedy, reached across the Massachusetts senator — who was still talking to Clinton — and tapped Obama (still twisted toward the back of the room) on the shoulder. McCaskill engaged Obama in conversation until the moment passed.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/29/state-of-the-union-awkward-moment/

[JackORoses]

15. your quoting an initial report which has since been updated by the AP

Kennedy offered his hand to Hillary.
She was not the initiator.

And it is clear from multiple images of the incident that Obama was actually not between Hillary and Kennedy. He is behind Kennedy, facing Claire McCaskill. That is conveniently cropped out in the version which you Hillarites are bandying about.

Find a real leg to stand on.
Look at what your Campaign has become.
If this is all you have to attack Obama with, then you are in really bad shape.

[MADem]

21. You can't read. Sound it out now, kiddo--the part where she CROSSES THE AISLE.

Hillary APPROACHED. What, Ted has big rubber GUMBY arms that stretch twenty feet?

:rofl:

What a load of anxious WHINING!!

You guys aren't gonna win this thing with this kind of crying and prevaricating...it's pretty pathetic. Desperate. Convoluted and determined, but poorly articulated, virtually unsourced and lacking logic.

I gave you a report. If CNN isn't good enough for you, go look at the Sun account where the reporter noted the "childish" comment.

What are you talking about.... "my campaign?"

See, you're erroneously assuming I am a Clinton supporter because you are so fucking DESPERATE to attack when you have no defense!!!

:rofl:

[lapfog_1]

23. Hillary didn't cross the aisle to see either Ted or Obama.

See went to see one of her supporters.

Read the story you posted. Ted reached out to her to shake hands. Barack was talking to Claire McCaskill AS THE SECOND PHOTO OF THE SAME EVENT CLEARLY DEMONSTRATES.

[MADem]

25. Thus Spaketh the DU MINDREADER! And you know this through your POWERS, I assume!

:rofl:

What, you think when someone crosses an aisle, they're only allowed to talk to one person...in a wheelchair?

[lapfog_1]

28. Just quoting the story YOU posted

you know, the one that says Obama turned to look to the back of the gallery when Ted was shaking Hillary's hand? That one.

You look like a fool here.

[MADem]

32. No, I don't "look like a fool here." I look like someone who backed up what I asserted

with a citation. I came with facts.

You can't say the same, though, can you? When the "Mean press" card fails, you frantically try to take a portion of the account out of context, as if no one will notice.

But they do.

I'll tell you, though, from where I sit, your attitude is reflective of this image:



There, there, now...

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

39. Nice subject line there...real classy.

Did you learn that kind of I used the same story YOU posted... idiot. response technique from your candidate?

You try reading the full cite in context. A few reads and it might sink in. Or maybe not.



You can't refute, so you attack.

The "Let me change the subject, maybe no one will NOTICE!" gambit!

Sorry, I noticed!

Heckuva job, there, Brownie!

[MADem]

33. Doubleclick

:rofl:

[JackORoses]

41. Hillary crossed the aisle to talk to a man in a wheelchair.

While she was doing this, Kennedy approached and offered his hand.

You seem to be the one desperate to attack, Ma'am.
Why is that?

[MADem]

42. The guy in the wheelchair was right BY Kennedy. She left her seat and crossed the aisle.

After talking to the guy in the chair, she straightened up, they looked at one another and he REACHED out -- not "approached." He didn't move a foot. He moved an arm.

She was the one who put one foot in front of the other and put herself in proximity to them. She left her seat and crossed the aisle.

Read the accounts, and stop playing word games. It's plain as day what happened.

I'm not "desperate to attack" at all, I simply have respect for the accounts that the reporters have provided, which are from all spectrums of the political sphere, and all say the same thing.

It's not the end of the world, but it IS indicative of maturity, grace, class and composure--Obama flunks on all counts. His immaturity is likely a part of why Kennedy has subsequently come out with that 'clarifying' statement, too about Senator and President Clinton--because he is getting a fucking EARFUL from his constituency, as is Kerry.

[lapfog_1]

16. But that is an account by someone NOT actually there

isn't it? Someone sitting in the gallery.

Someone that made up some stuff based on what he or she thinks they saw and, probably, AFTER they viewed the first photo. Someone looking to sell a story.

Were they close enough to hear what was said? Could Obama be looking somewhere OTHER than what the author of this story says... "back of the room"... really? How do they know where he was looking.

[MADem]

19. You're funny. Desperate. Flopsweating. Torturously trying to make this go away.

But funny.

And here you go, playing the "The Press MADE IT UP!!!" card.

Do you realize how absurd your posts are? The whole gallery was TALKING about it. You go do your own homework, now.

Or you keep insisting it never happened, if it makes you feel better. We know otherwise, though.

[lapfog_1]

22. I'm trying to "make it go away"?

Really? I haven't commented on this AT ALL, not until just now.

It's the Clinton supporters here who keep posting this over and over and over like it's some big deal.

Why? Are things getting that desperate over at Camp Clinton?

I saw the SECOND PHOTO and it shows a much different situation that gives a different interpretation. If the second photo was the only photo, this wouldn't have been a big deal to anyone. You folks are trying to create an "insult" where there wasn't one.

And if there WAS in insult, I think it would be OK given how Hillary has run her campaign.
(But that's just me, Barack has more class than I do)

[MADem]

27. Ha!

Sorry, jujitsu only works if your opponent is resisting.

You guys are digging this massive, gaping hole all on your own!

Oh, that Camp Clinton remark was adorable, but I'm NOT a Clinton supporter--just someone who dislikes blatantly unfair treatment along with bullshitting!

Heckuva job, there, Brownie!

Read the reports from all those "lying" reporters, who surely "have it in" for Obama...

:rofl:

[lapfog_1]

31. You are the one with no less than 10 posts here

in this thread alone. Out of 28 so far.

So who is resisting?

You dislike blatantly unfair treatment... so I'm sure you were all over the Nevada caucus voter suppression issue, as well as the "Hillary is trying the change the rules to get the Michigan delegates seated now" issue. Those are both blatantly unfair to the other candidates. They are both worthy of Karl Rove or his mentor, Lee Atwater.

Or is it only the superficial crap that you care about?

BTW, when Obama announced that he was running for President, Hillary went out of her way to snub him on the floor of the Senate... I'm sure you were all over that blatant unfair treatment of Mr. Obama. Right? Can you find the post that you made on the topic back then?

[MADem]

35. Ha! You keep chasing me round, and getting angry because I answer you!

And now it's MY "fault" for focusing on "superficial crap?" And if I don't attend to the issues YOU find near and dear, I am somehow wanting?

What, you can't walk and chew gum at the same time? Is there a new rule that everyone has to follow your lead? I must have missed the memo!

Are you a "One Issue Voter" too? Because two or three issues might be too taxing?




There, there, now...

[lapfog_1]

38. Reuse of the same photo over and over shows just how

uninventive you are. I mean at least come up with something more original.

Back to my ignore list.

[MADem]

40. Awww, getting edgy?

Thanks so much for putting me on your ignore list. You lack the intellectual rigor to engage in any sort of substantive discussion, and your lockstep adherence to your chosen candidate even in the face of his less than stellar behavior is sadly telling.

You do know that if you SAY you are going to do it, you have to actually do it.

[MADem]

20. doubleclick

:rofl:

[featherman]

4. It's not about what happened or who had what intent

It's about perception. And Clinton certainly won this round judging from the version that shows up here and there in the MSM and on the View, etc.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. Heavily aided by an ambitious photographer and media pundits. nt

[tyne]

8. The picture clearly shows this...

“I was surprised by the reports this morning,” Obama said. “I was turning away because Claire asked me a question as Sen. Kennedy was reaching for her. Sen. Clinton and I have had very cordial relations on the floor and off the floor.”
Barack

[MADem]

24. She didn't ask the question until Ted was DONE with HRC, and two others

were shaking her hand...she "rescued" him from an awkward situation. She had to TAP him to get his attention!

Now he's a bit of a bullshitter, too! Hand that man a shovel so he can dig with greater efficiency!!!


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/29/state-of-the-union-awkward-moment/
His adviser came up with a totally DIFFERENT excuse:

When Clinton straightened up, Kennedy quickly reached across Barack Obama to shake Clinton’s hand. She took it. As they spoke, Obama turned away. Then the senators seated to Obama’s right – Ben Nelson and Ken Salazar — both shook Senator Clinton’s hand and talked to her. Instead of doing the same, Obama turned to look at the back of the room. Sen. Claire McCaskill, who has also endorsed Obama and was seated next to Kennedy, reached across the Massachusetts senator — who was still talking to Clinton — and tapped Obama (still twisted toward the back of the room) on the shoulder. McCaskill engaged Obama in conversation until the moment passed.

It all lasted less than five minutes. Neither acknowledged the other all night.

UPDATE: Speaking about the moment Tuesday morning, Obama advisor David Axelrod said in an interview on MSNBC the Illinois senator was not trying to snub Clinton.

"I think he knew that Senator Kennedy and Senator Clinton were friends," he said. "This was obviously an awkward day from that standpoint, and I don't think he wanted to stand there while Senator Kennedy was greeting Senator Clinton. And I think that was an appropriate sentiment."

[edbermac]

11. Slap my hand, black soul man...

[Rageneau]

30. I think Obama and his supporters are stunned to be getting criticized at ALL

BO has been given -- not a free ride -- but a free ride in a sedan chair by the corporate media. They have spun him like Rapuntzel spun gold from straw, while simultaneous excoriating the Clintons for the least indelicacy of expression.

Until last night, Obama has been treated as if he could do no wrong, so now that he has, neither he nor his supporters can face the concept of owning up to a mistake and asking pardon for it. Like Bill Clinton did

[MADem]

43. I think you hit the nail on the head with that analysis. NT