Skull and Bones is not an issue.

[Exultant Democracy]

I feel silly even having to post this, but many people here seem to be coming to many erroneous conclusions about Kerry and his relationship with Bush because of their Skull and Bones connection.

Now listen up, if there is any connection from S&B with Bush and Kerry it is only one of hate over the direction in which the club has gone.

The alumni had a huge battle years ago, which hamstrung the organization, on if they should let women join or not, Kerry was for women membership and Bush was against. Now Skull and Bones is a derelict club and the alumni don't even help pay for the Booze, like the alumni for almost ever other society on campus.

The fact is that Yale is full of talented people. Every single club and frat has a long list of prominent alumni, this is not because of any nefarious plots, but because of the talented pool from which they draw their membership.

[LynneSin]

1. It's only an issue because we make it one

I agree with you 110%

[bryant69]

2. Yes

But conspiracy theories are more fun than facts.

By the way did you know George W. Bush and John Kerry may have helped create the "New" Coke by adding the secret ingredient; Alien Blood harvested at Area 54! Incredible if true.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Gman]

3. The same people making an issue of S&B

would see a sinister connection of they both belonged to Sigma Epsilon.

[Exultant Democracy]

5. Haha I forgot that

Sig Ep is a joke at Yale. I guess that isn't really fair, but getting kick off of campus (and general anit-frat feelings) has hurt all the frats a lot. Most of the houses now are crappy, little and dirty. It used to be thay you would have a nice big house with a cook and maid service.

[seventhson]

8. Not true. Sigma's members did not finance Hitler

or destabilize democracies and assassinate democratic presidents.

Skull members DID do that.

[Gman]

21. Oh yeah? Well I know some Sig Eps

that have committed crimes against nature with small farm animals!

[JNelson6563]

4. I agree for one reason

If Jr wasn't also a member the reich-wing would have a field day. Since Jr is also a member what can they say??

Lucky break IMO.

[seventhson]

6. That is total Bullshit

For one thing booze is not allowed at their debates twice a week.

The issue of females was NOT a major turning point between the evil and good members -- and these issue is not so much the CURRENT members AT YALE as students but the CURRENT Members and their associations who have goner into the world of politics, warfare, intelligence and banking, i.e. Bush and Kerry.

Dubya came AFTER Kerry at Yale.

And there is no "alumni" of Skull. It is a "Society" with membership for LIFE.


I urge folks to read this article for the truth about skull:


http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc808.html

[Monte Carlo]

10. That source is total BS.

Guerrilla News? Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

[deutsey]

13. What is BS?

The site or the author and book being discussed on the site?

I don't find Guerrilla News unreliable, but Robbins was recently interviewed on Democracy Now as well.

I think she's a source that should be taken seriously. She isn't a "conspiracy theorist" but, from what I understand, takes issue with the undemocratic nature of influence and access to power that S&B has had (and continues to have) in American society.

Such as:
So what is the prevailing wisdom around Skull and Bones? What is some of the mythology?

People generally believe that Skull & Bones operates a secret world government, that it controls foreign policy, that it’s a wealthy landowner that guarantees its members power and financial security for life. They believe that members are associated with the Nazis, that they controlled the atomic bomb, and that they lead the nation into war every chance they get.

And so from your research did you find confirmation to these theories?

I was actually surprised because there was a lot more basis to these theories than I had expected. For example, members of the Skull & Bones did indeed oversee the deployment of the atomic bomb. They did choreograph the Bay of Pigs invasion. They did fund Hitler when they could. But it wasn’t the organization pulling the strings. It was the individual members. There are cliques within Skull & Bones that tend to gather together and elevate each other to power and then exert their control and influence… It’s not that Skull & Bones as an entity is specifically and directly pulling the strings. It’s that individuals within the secret society are pushing each other to positions of authority and working their influence from there.

Describe how they have stayed so powerful?

...The purpose of Skull & Bones is to get its members into positions of influence and power within the country and they have managed to do that. And once they get to those positions they automatically hire other Bonesmen. We saw that with Averell Harriman, we saw that with Henry Stimson and we see that now with the Bushes. I think Skull & Bones is making a comeback these days, not only because of the Internet and because people sort of spread the rumors about Skull & Bones, but also because of the Bush political dynasty and I think George W. Bush is certainly the classic example of this.

[Exultant Democracy]

12. Well buddy

and Alumni is any one who has graduated from college. Since there are so many more of them (then active undergrad brothers at Yale) they are the major governing force.

As for the booze part, every Thursday night all the societies get together with each other and drink. Most of them drink for free because alumni pick up the bill, the S&B on the other hand do not so if the currently active undergrads want to drink they have to do it on their own dime.

The issue of females was huge and split the membership permanently and is the reason that it is currently underfunded. The bad guys could not stop women from joining but they were damed if they were going to continue to support the undergrads.

If Skull and Bones is so powerful then why do the members of almost all of the other societies take better care of their undergrads?

[library_max]

20. The Stonecutters' Song, from The Simpsons

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscars night?
We do! We do!

[PATRICK]

7. Finally a couple of relevant facts

Rather than nebulous grave alarms of mysterious authority. It sidetracks from the whole issue of where our ruling elites gather for their sheepskins, a generic concern since all types of liberals and cons pass through the halls. BCCI is a lot more disturbing as a watering hole for special interests normally locked in war.

[Monte Carlo]

9. More than the revolving door between the Pentagon and defense contractors?

I think not. Why look to Skull n' Bones for the grand conspiracy? We have the Military-Industrial Complex right in front of us

[kiahzero]

11. Why look at Skull and Bones?

Because being LaRouche-Lite is so much fun (Oh my god, is the Queen of England a member of S&B?).

[Exultant Democracy]

14. Maybe we should blame the stock market crash on them too.

Wait that would be some groups at Stanford fault. Oh my gosh, if you look at the people that took the same course with the same teacher in computer science at Stanford you find that an amazingly high number of them went on to become Internet millionaires.

One of the guys that started google was a Stanford wrestler, I think that the Stanford wrestling team is just a cover for a group bent on world domination by controlling the flow of information on the internet.

[He loved Big Brother]

15. Riiight

I'm sure Skull & Bones is completely benign.

[argonne]

16. 99 % of the voters

don't know or care about S&B.

[deutsey]

17. 99% of the voters

don't know or care about a lot of things, unfortunately.

[GreenArrow]

18. it IS an issue

but it won't be.

[salin]

19. Correction:

to SOME it is an issue... and perhaps because to many others it isn't... it probably won't be an issue (per the campaign.) The latter situation (it not working as an issue) may not be the outcome of a grandconspiracy... but instead a rejection from others who do not believe it is the issue that some folks seem to believe.

[GreenArrow]

24. well, that could apply to any issue then

People will gravitate to the issues that are important to them, and weigh them accordingly. Very few people are going to look at "Skull" at face value and see anything in it that effects their everyday lives, so most will reject it out of hand, or accept it as simply the way business is done and see nothing wrong with it. Both arguments appear regularly on DU.

Even if "Skull" is not some sort of self-concious grand occultist conspiracy, it is still applicable as an illustration of the way power and power relationships work in this country. That is an issue, whether people percieve it as such or not, and if the country is to grow into a deeper sort of democracy, it is an issue that will have to be dealt with eventually; it won't be this election.

[salin]

25. I would agree with that last part

there is a whole body of literature on something called "networking theory" in organizational studies literature. How elite groups form networks (by birth, place of attendance, joining of clubs, etc.)... and from those networks are more likely to hire... work for... invest in.. invite onto boards... the folks that they have the most familiarity with (from the various networks, many of which are interlocking networks). It gets much harder for folks without access to those networks (and working somewhere for a while with folks - is much less access on the network than growing up with... going to school with and then working together)... will have a much smaller chance of knowing about specific jobs, positions on boards, etc.

Interesting though the weakness in organizations that do not recognize and try to counterbalance the over reliance on relatively closed networks, is that there is less critical views of particular policies or business forcasts (or whatever the core of the organization is focused on), there is less ability to get a broader array of ideas and discourse. The best point in case... is this current administration and their approach to just about everything led by narrow ideology, political consideration with an aversion to policy talk or criticism of policy directions.

I don't know, however, that we have evidence, that Kerry suffers from the same degree of insularness (sp?), or only operates within a closed set of networks and has thus shut out additional views, opportunities, ideas. Indeed when considering his career compared to bush's (how many times did others have to bail bush out... which meant external intervention?) they appear to have followed very different courses. This is why I am more likely to discount the degree of "danger/concern" simply based on affiliation with this society. That is not to say that understanding the dynamics is not wise... or to say that some in this (and similar societies) may rely upon these networks much more seriously and with more potential deletorious effects.

[cosmicdot]

22. well, maybe one of our fair and balanced journalists will pose a question

should a face-to-face debate between all the candidates occurs before election day ... what an opportunity that would offer to finally denounce S&B in front of the world ... especially, if none will volunteer such information, and be done with it ...

[Exultant Democracy]

23. What is there to denounce?

They joined a drinking club in college.

[He loved Big Brother]

26. No.

Phi Beta Gamma or whatever frats on campuses are drinking clubs.

There's no way no how you can convince me S&B doesn't have secret ulterior motives that most likely have more to do with lining the pockets of the elite, shaping the world as they see fit to line those pockets, and little to nothing to do with the common good of people as a whole.

It won't stop me from voting for Kerry, but talk about holding my nose while I do so. The *ONLY* reason I am voting for him instead of staying home is because I do *not* want crotchfruits, and my right to choose is threatened if Bush wins again. But I'll be more than holding my nose while voting for Kerry...I'll be clutching my stomach and suppressing bile from rising, because he was my second-to-last choice before Lieberman.

He isn't Bushlite, but he *was* a Bush enabler. He sat out on some votes that I would have preferred he showed up for as well, if for no other reason than to display his stance to the public.

Anyway, the idea of a secret society like Skull and Bones doesn't mesh well with my beliefs about which direction humanity should progress toward. But I don't think it will be an major issue. Kerry has much bigger fish to fry.

[Exultant Democracy]

27. OK I know a thing or two from observation

This is how it works at Yale, some people join frats but some don't. Then you spend the next 4 years drinking with the frat. During your senior year almost everyone (many people that didn't bother with frats) joins a secret society.

Different societies have different rules and therefor different character. Some of them have all of the members from the previous class get together and decide as a whole who to "tap" for the next years class, these clubs are obviously a lot closer and tighter but are also more prone to going defunct.

Some clubs on the other hand allow each individual senior to "tap" their choice for a replacement. The brotherhood does have a right of refusal, but it is considered very poor from to refuse a someone that another member "taps." (this in fact is what lead to the huge schism in S&B when a brother taped a girl)

In most cases societies that work with the method of individual selection of candidates are far more robust, but less unified in their world view. Unfortunately for S&B the issues that came up with allowing women to join lost the society a lot of support and right now they are struggling on campus.

The real story is that if you get 7 Yale seniors (at least one with a tie on) in a room together on a Thursday night with some beers and you have a secret society, and if it last for any measure of time you will be able to form all kinds of crazy theories about them trying to take over the world when 15% of them end up in positions of power. This isn't because they are really trying to take over the world, but because of the talent pool from which they draw upon.

[LTR]

28. S&B is irrelevant

I was in a college fraternity, and it didn't warp me one bit. I actually got a lot out of it.

What were you all doing when you were 18 years old? Maybe not on the same level as jerking off in coffins, but I'm sure there were some embarrasing things you all did.