Any Other CA Independents Have Their Vote Stolen?

[REP]

I've voted in primaries here before, though I am not registered with any party (I'm Non-Partison, or NP, in California). I'm used to being asked which ballot I wanted before I went in the booth.

Now we have those fucking touch screens, and I was not asked - I was simply handed an NP ballot. When I asked how I could vote in the primary - the reason I went to the poll in the first place - I was told I couldn't because I had cast my ballot and it couldn't be undone and I couldn't revote. The poll worker told me they had been instructed not to volunteer any information to NP voters, including asking which ballot they wanted.

I read the sample ballot front to back; I listen to NPR daily; I read this website. Until I got to the poll, I had not heard of this new procedure of giving NPs a non-primary ballot. My vote was stolen, and I am fucking furious.

[Dookus]

1. I'm confused.

did you expect to vote in the Democratic primary even though you're not a Democrat?

Open primaries were overturned by the courts here a few years ago.

[REP]

3. Wrong

At least according to the pollworker; if I had known to ask for a Dem ballot, I could have voted in the primary.

I have voted in other primaries here before, and was ASKED which ballot I wanted.

[Dookus]

6. ah, OK

it's now a "modified open primary"

The pollworker followed the rules to a tee.

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_decline.htm

[REP]

23. I Think I Know Why You're So Angry, Dookus

At first I thought that you thought I was somehow blaming pollworkers, of which you are one. After reading some of your other posts tonight, now I think the anger you've been directing at me has to do with the picture of Dr Dean at the bottom of my posts, and you have assumed that I would have been voting for him. Since you've labeled all Dean supporters in another thread as "whingers," you may have assumed I'm just another Dean crybaby, when if fact, my complaint is about the inability to revote a spoiled ballot and the new instructions given to pollworkers about not asking NP voters which ballot they want.

If I am incorrect in my guess of why you have displayed such anger toward me, I do apologize.

[democratreformed]

2. I would be furious as well.

Gosh, I don't even know what to say - that is so awful.

[theoceansnerves]

4. it sounds like you got tricked

technically i guess it's your responsibility to "ask" for the democratic ballot, but the poll worker surely could have mentioned they were handing you a np ballot...

[jansu]

5. My son had an absentee ballot and it did not have anything in it for who

he wanted as the nominee of any party! Are you sure that they did not change the rules in California about not letting Independents choose the candidates for President for other parties?

[Dookus]

7. According to the SoS's office

"Decline to State" Voters - Voting in the Upcoming Primary

If you are a voter who has declined to state an affiliation with a political party, you may be able to vote for a candidate of a specific party in the upcoming March 2, 2004 Primary Election. You may request, from your county elections official or at your polling place, the ballot of a political party if authorized by the party's rules and duly noticed by the Secretary of State. Click here to obtain county elections office contact information.

If you do not request such a ballot, you will be given a nonpartisan ballot, containing only the names of all candidates for nonpartisan offices and measures to be voted upon at the primary election.

[SerpentX]

8. From the Secretary of State's page:

If you are a voter who has declined to state an affiliation with a political party, you may be able to vote for a candidate of a specific party in the upcoming March 2, 2004 Primary Election. You may request, from your county elections official or at your polling place, the ballot of a political party if authorized by the party's rules and duly noticed by the Secretary of State.

If they say "You have to ask for the ballot", that seems pretty effin picky. I didn't change party affiliations in time, so my vote was goose-egged too, but at least I knew it ahead of time.

[REP]

9. I'm Moderately Well-Informed

and I didn't think to go the SoS's page; I thought any changes would be in the Information for Voters that is sent and I read. If I, a political hobbiest, didn't know I had to ask for a ballot, how many other NP voters got screwed, too?

[Dookus]

10. It's also stated on page 15 of the

voters guide that was sent to every voter. A whole page dedicated to it.

I was a poll-worker. There are very specific rules, and we had to follow them. If somebody DOESN'T ask for a primary ballot, what should the poll workers do? Ask them if they'd like one? Ask them which party they'd like? Then recommend one?

It'd go like this:

"I'm here to vote"

"I see you're an independent. Would you like to vote in a primary?"

"Uh sure, why not?"

"Which party"

"I dunno...what do you think?"

"I can't say"

"Which one's got that Dean guy?"

"I can't say"

"Whaddya mean, you don't know or you won't tell me?"

"I can't say"

etc. etc. etc.


Sorry, nobody's vote was stolen here, despite the OP's protests. The exact rules were sent to his house. He didn't read them.

[REP]

11. I'm Still a She

And the pollworkers could have done as they did last time: "Democratic, Republican, or NP ballot?"

Yes, I did read the booklet; I obviously didn't see it.

You obviously have your opinion; I have another point of view. You were wrong in your first response, telling me that NPs can't vote in primaries and you say you were a pollworker - then you find the information only after I point out the change in procedures that I think was underpublicized and poorly thought out. I read the damn thing and missed it; how many other NPs who didn't read it didn't get their chance to vote as well?

[Dookus]

12. Sorry bout the gender mixup

Yes, I was wrong. I corrected myself immediately.

The fact is, if voting in the Democratic primary is important to you, either register as a democrat or take the time to learn the rules.

Your vote was not stolen, as you alleged.

[REP]

14. I Think You Miss My Point

Yes, of course I'm not happy I didn't get to cast my vote. The larger issue, though, is that no doubt many other people who have various reasons for not registering with a party, also did not get an opportunity to cast their vote due to a change in procedure that was not well publicized.

My vote was stolen; had I screwed up a paper ballot, I could have revoted. Not with the new system.

I'm sure you feel as though I am attacking you, since I mentioned pollworkers. That is not the case. I am attacking the new policy of the Registrar of Voters, not pollworkers, some of whom are obviously not fully aware of all election rules and only follow the rules they are given, not make policy. The fact is, I don't have to register as a Democrat. I thought I had learned the rules; unfortunately, I was incorrect. Your snotty attitude has made me see the error of my ways and I am so truly sorry for forcing you to click on this post.

[Dookus]

16. Sorry, REP

but you approached this by saying your vote was stolen.

In fact, when we BOTH researched it, it turns out the poll workers behaved exactly according to the rules.

Nobody unfairly denied you anything.

The fact is, we DID approve open primaries a few years ago, and the courts overturned them. The current rules must be the result of that lawsuit.

*I* knew there had been a change to open primaries. If I were an independent, I would've looked it up.

[REP]

17. I Never Said They Weren't

In fact, when we BOTH researched it, it turns out the poll workers behaved exactly according to the rules.

Strawman much?

I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers. I'm not complaining about the pollworkers.

As for you knowing anything, I won't belabor the obvious by pointing out your post saying, in effect, just who did I think I am trying to vote in the primary when I'm not registered with a party. You were wrong, which you admitted as soon as I pointed it out.

I was denied the chance to vote the way I wanted to. If I had spoiled a paper ballot, I would have been given another one. I spoiled my touchscreen ballot, and couldn't do a damn thing about it. No doubt others had their votes stolen in the same manner.

[Mick Knox]

13. Thats total BS for your county!...

In my CA county... (we used punch cards) .. I was in line behind an Ind and they asked him which one that he wanted... just fyi.

[bobbyboucher]

15. This is my story.

When I got there, a different location for some reason, the two people in front of me were sent to a ANOTHER location. Being curious about that kind of shit, I asked them where they voted last time, and they said that "this is where" they voted last time. Funny, I didn't vote there last time, but they did, and I was in the right place and they weren't. What up?

Then they noticed that I was an independent and I asked what ballot. They said that I could have either ballot and I said Dem, they gave me a ballot based on that I suppose. Then after I was almost finished, using my "Instructions" that I brought from home, which contained the Repub areas too, I stopped and asked them if I should vote in the Repub part of my instruction manual and they said that I should vote off that one. But I didn't think that I was able to do BOTH. So, being a somewhat savvy voter, yeah right, I left the Repuke areas blank.

What the fuck was done with my ballot during counting I do not know. It was confusing and they weren't helpful at all.

If I would have voted in the Repuke area on a supposed Dem ballot would it have negated my vote?

My summaion is this: ASK ALOT OF QUESTION IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND AND DEMAND A CLEAR AND CONCICE ANSWER.

My summation: SOMETHING FISHY WAS GOING ON.

[bobbyboucher]

18. I think I might sue!

The people at my polling place, in retrospect, guided me to disqualify my ballot.

IS MY BALLOT DISQUALIFIED IF I VOTE FOR BOTH THE RPUB AND DEM SIDE OF THE PRIMARY?

I didn't, but they sure as hell guided me in that direction.

Any takers?

[bobbyboucher]

19. No wonder they were predicting record low turnouts.

They were counting on huge ballot disqualifications amongst independents. Covering thier asses in advance.

[REP]

20. Something's Not Right

Why were pollworkers being told not to ask, "Democrat, Republican or NP ballot?" to NP voters? Why were you told what you were told? Why can't the system be reworked so revotes are allowed if a voter spoils their ballot? Yes, there is a review screen, but that doesn't help if you realize you've been given the wrong ballot too late! (I thought there'd be a choice to vote in the R or D primary after the propositions.)

[bobbyboucher]

21. I voted on an opi-scan card, never before.

They didn't run my card in front of me, I put it in a box.

Looking back on it, there was one poll worker there who kept looking me in the eye because she knew that I was curious from the beginning and she seemed sympathetic. Yet didn't say a word.

There's something amiss and I think I know what it is. They desperately want that $15 billion loan to go through and Indys aren't for it.

[bobbyboucher]

22. Well?

Any answers or like experiences?

[Mick Knox]

24. Might try the IndependentUnderground.com Website..

I did not experience it... and aside from seeing an Ind get offered the one he wanted.. dont know of any probs.

[bobbyboucher]

26. Thanks for the pink response.

See you in Nov. Not.

[bobbyboucher]

28. What?

No pink response?

[Cleita]

25. Okay, I voted in the same place I have voted the last two times, but

I noticed that two churches down the hill from me and much closer than my precinct also had vote signs in front of them. This is the first time in a couple of years that these churches had been used as polling places. I thought it was odd, and now I wonder.

I also volunteered to work for the League of Women Voters yet everytime I called the woman in charge I was told how busy she was and that she would call me back. I don't know but I think it was the woman I was supposed to talk to. She didn't call back and of course the election came and went. Food for thought.

I find the local Democratic club in my area may consider me a bit radical, but I have decided to tackle my activism a different way and without their help.

[bobbyboucher]

27. Good idea.

You probably won't find too much help here because it seems DU is for the mostly DLC, fence-sitting such that Ralph warns everyone about. Not at all like the old days at DU.