the Obama "throw one minority under the bus to appeal to a bigoted majority" strategy

[IndianaJones]

seems to have worked well in South Carolina. Will it have any negative consequences? I am beginning to doubt it.

[Occam Bandage]

1. Thank you for your assuredly-genuine concern.

[jlake]

2. Thank you for not caring about the GLBT community.

[KittyWampus]

4. if you really cared you condemn Hillary's pandering to same bigots

[mondo joe]

6. Identify it please.

[jlake]

8. I'd like a link to where she shared her stage with an ex-gay homophobe

and then refused to apologize.... and then did it again.

[Windy]

13. Will Bill apologize for DOMA? Has Hillary decryed homophobia in African american churches?

the answer is no...

[jlake]

17. I am not really interested in what Bill has to say. Hillary will repeal it.

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2007/06/19/1

[KittyWampus]

14. like I said, it's okay because she "only" appears at fundraisers held by bigots, puts their quotes

on her webage, attends prayer meetings in DC regularly with them....

[jlake]

18. Okay, so by your own admission she doesn't do anything that comes close

to what Obama did (and does) .... thanks :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[KittyWampus]

28. and by your own admission, she's guilty but you're happy to excuse it. Hypocrite.

[jlake]

32. Nope. I never got a link to any of your claims and have no reason to believe them.

[Solon]

11. Quite a few of us have, and it seems not to matter...

You guys still excuse Obama, as if he were any different from Hillary.

[Windy]

7. Ask your candidate how she feels about DOMA

The Defense of Marriage Amendment that her very vocal hubby supported!!!

[mondo joe]

12. She's said she'd sign off on repealing it. So have Edwards and Obama.

[jlake]

16. She disagrees with DOMA and would work to repeal it.

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2007/06/19/1

What's the big O gonna do?

[jackpan1260]

22. It's so nice that you and Hillary really care

:sarcasm:

I am voting for Obama. I will never vote for Hillary.

[jlake]

27. Hillary cares. She is the only candidate who has spoken about caring for GLBT youth.

It brought tears to me. We need a president who cares about us, and understands the feeling of not belonging.

[Occam Bandage]

30. Which is why she is in favor of gay marriage, right?

[maddiejoan]

34. She sees the issue of gay marriage

as a State's issue --and she sees the Federal Government as having to recognize them.

[Occam Bandage]

37. Heh. States' Rights, eh? The same lovely dodge used by Ron Paul re: abortion.

[maddiejoan]

41. As a NY Senator

she was solidly behind legalizing same-sex marriage in NY, and unlike Edwards or Obama --she has not publicly stated opposition to same-sex marriage.

[cali]

45. Really? Prove it. Provide one link to where Hillary stands up for

same sex marriage.

[Occam Bandage]

47. Article from during the NY gay-marriage push: "Clinton silent on same-sex marriage"

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/07/08/BAG1FJRO7Q1.DTL&type=politics

Just another Clinton dodge.

[niceypoo]

56. No silence whatsoever

She has long maintained that it is a states rights issue.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/degeneresclinton08/">Mrs. Clinton also said she thinks defining marriage should be a state matter, pointing to states like Massachusetts, Vermont and, most recently, a county judge in Iowa, that have allowed gay marriages or civil unions

Nice try posting an article from July 2006, typical Obamite dodge

[Occam Bandage]

60. Um, since we're talking about whether she

"strongly supported" NY's gay-marriage push in 2006, I think a July 2006 article is actually quite warranted.

[maddiejoan]

63. She has stated quite clearly that she does not oppose Spitzer on this

How is it a dodge?

<snip>
"My position is consistent," she said. "I support states making the decision. I think that Chuck Schumer would say the same thing. And if anyone ever tried to use our words in any way, we'll review that. Because I think that it should be in the political process and people make a decision and if our governor and our Legislature support marriage in New York, I'm not going to be against that... So I feel very comfortable with being able to refute anybody who tries to pit us or pit me against Eliot."

Asked several moments later by Gary Parker, the Greater Voices leader who chaired the meeting, to clarify that point, Clinton reiterated, "I am not going to speak out against, I'm not going to oppose anything that the governor and the Legislature do."
<snip>

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2006/10/like_the_human_.html

[Occam Bandage]

66. How is "I'm not going to take a stand on this" not a dodge? You tell me.

[maddiejoan]

68. where does she say that?

typical word twisting.

[Occam Bandage]

25. Oh, wait, on which GLBT policy issue do Obama and Hillary differ?

That's right, none.

[maddiejoan]

31. Somethings go beyond "policy"

Obama invites bigots onstage to pander to homophobes

Obama has publicly stated he has religios objections to same-sex marriage (despite the fact that his own church has no such objections)

[Occam Bandage]

36. Yes. Bullshit faux concern.

Tell me, what are Hillary's objections to gay marriage?

[maddiejoan]

39. zero

she sees it as a states' issue.

and my concern is not bullshit or faux.

But I thank you for dismissing my views.

[Occam Bandage]

43. "If you go the next step and say, 'But I want what is called marriage,'

you're going to have a problem."

She's not in favor of gay marriage. She's not opposed to gay marriage. She dodges the question every time it comes up, and "states' rights" is the oldest dodge on civil rights issues.

http://gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17379741&BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=568864&rfi=6

[mondo joe]

48. That's a strategic point, and one many gays recognize as well.

So is the state issue.

[Occam Bandage]

49. So she's only for expedient civil rights? Nice dodge.

[mondo joe]

51. Not at all. She's not opposed to equality - she's talking process. And it's not

a point I can disagree with. Civil Unions, while not the goal, are a step toward the goal.

[Occam Bandage]

52. Huh. So she's for the exact same thing Obama is, then. And dodges gay marriage each time.

What a fighter.

[mondo joe]

54. There's at least one difference: the statement about being opposed to same sex marriage

vs not being opposed to it.

I recognize they don't seem different to you. To me, they do.

[Occam Bandage]

55. But she has been opposed to it in past, and now won't say either way. Strange to see

a Clinton supporter holding a "present" vote as superior to the wrong vote.

[mondo joe]

57. Even if they are no different, some of Obama's activities diminishes him for me.

I'm not unhappy with Obama because I'm a Hillary supporter.

I'm a Hillary supporter because I'm unhappy with Obama.

That was my sequence.

[Occam Bandage]

59. Well, certainly you're allowed to make your own decisions.

[maddiejoan]

61. Exactly

she doesn't oppose them --she considers it a States' issue.


Here's a good article on the differences between Clinton and Obama on same-sex marriage

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/27/45319/5621/407/444024

[jlake]

33. Hillary genuinely cares about my community and will make it a priority...

anything Obama says has to be taken with a grain of salt due to his penchant for political expediency.

[Occam Bandage]

38. Which is why she's against gay marriage, right?

[jlake]

40. She is not against gay marriage. She is personally for it, and believes it is a

state's rights issue. Unlike Obama and Edwards who oppose it.

[Occam Bandage]

50. She hasn't come down solidly yet this campaign. She dodges the question every time it comes up.

[Little Star]

64. Look at the other four fingers pointing back at you & your candidate!

[Occam Bandage]

67. Um, yes. My point is that there is no difference between the two on LGBT policy.

[mondo joe]

70. There's more to life than policy. Among them, the "bully pulpit" and

other factors that, for me, loom large.

[Bluerthanblue]

62. has her stand changed just recently? according

to everything I've read, she stands (personally) against gay "marriage"- but wouldn't oppose it.

here is a link:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2612368

Oct. 27, 2006
Font Size

Sen. Hillary Clinton will not stand in the way of New York's governor and legislature if they want to enact a same-sex marriage law, though it is not the position she supports, the New York Democrat who is running for re-election said today in Syracuse, N.Y.

Clinton said that she favors civil unions, not same-sex marriage.


"I put forth my position, which is in favor of civil unions," Clinton said. "But the political process will decide what New Yorkers want to do."

Gay marriage has become a hot issue in New York because the Democratic candidate for governor, Eliot Spitzer, who is well ahead in the polls, has pledged to sign a bill legalizing gay marriage.

When Clinton campaign spokeswoman Jennifer Hanley was asked by ABC News whether the senator would vote for a same-sex marriage law if she were in the New York State Legislature, Hanley said: "She's not going to answer a hypothetical like that."

Clinton's spokeswoman would also not say whether the former first lady would consider New York's enactment of a same-sex marriage law a step in the right or wrong direction.

On Wednesday, Clinton told a group of gay and lesbian leaders: "I think that it should be in the political process and people make a decision and if our governor and our legislature support marriage in New York, I'm not going to be against that."

The senator's comments came in response to Larry Moss, a Democratic state committeeman, who asked her: "How do we keep your words from being cover for conservative Democrats who want to compromise with Eliot and say, 'Just say do civil unions?'"

Clinton answered by saying of herself and New York's other senator, Democrat Chuck Schumer: "I feel very comfortable with being able to refute anybody who tries to pit us or pit me against Eliot."

Clinton's remarks from Wednesday were quoted Thursday in a story by Paul Schindler in the Gay City News, and were confirmed to ABC News by Clinton's spokeswoman.

A lot of words- but not a firm answer.

Pretty similar to all the candidates stands.

[KittyWampus]

3. But it's okay with you Hillary appeals to same bigots cause she does it more quietly?

[Apollo11]

5. Your "convince people that Obama is a hatemonger" strategy

seems to have run into some problems. Is it because the evidence sugggests otherwise? I am beginning to think so.

[WillParkinson]

10. Evidence?

Is lip service evidence?

How about McClurkin followed by grouping up with yet another "ex-gay" ministry?

[Apollo11]

23. If you ask me - all religious beliefs are BS

But I am not the one who is running for President.

Barack Obama is a candidate for the Presidency. He is also a Christian.

He is trying to win votes from other Americans including many who are Christians.

Last time I checked - most American citizens call themselves Christians of one kind or another.

So it would be kind of crazy for any candidate to offend or exclude the religiously-oriented.

Even if they believe in a lot of stuff that if you ask me is totally fucked-up. Like the book of Genesis, life after death, immaculate conception, the great flood, reversing sexuality by means of prayer, or whatever.

[WillParkinson]

73. So it's OK to throw people under the bus?

That's pandering. Pure and simple. And certainly not the work of someone who wants to unite people.

[mondo joe]

74. If the only way you can appeal to Christians is using "ex-gay" bigots, it's

pretty damn sad.

Last I checked there were a lot of Christians who don't buy that BS.

[Occam Bandage]

29. But it worked really really well for them in SC, didn't it? Oh, wait. They got destroyed.

[mondo joe]

71. And it might destroy them on Super Tuesday. Or not.

Depends what strategy works.

[maddiejoan]

35. Obama is not a "hatemonger"

He's a panderer --and I wonder at one point the pandering will stop.

[sunonmars]

9. wont work in a lot of other states

I personally know a lot of people who've seen right through what he did in SC and aint happy with it.

[IndianaJones]

15. he saw the results of a September poll on the issue and ran with it...

Any means necessary.

[lwcon]

19. Could you provide a little documentation there, friend?

I will note that this quote from a DUer shows the Obama Fan Base's enthusiasm for that strategy:

"I would gladly sacrifice 80% of the atheists if that is what it takes."

___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[IndianaJones]

24. I'm sure you are familiar with McClurkin and polls that show the feelings toward gays...

of the majority of Obama's support in South Carolina.

[lwcon]

58. A succinct statement with quotes and analysis is always good

If you can.

Lord knows, Obama is overplaying the Jesus card, with that brochure of his:
http://www.correntewire.com/obamas_response_to_being_accused_of_being_a_muslim

[Solon]

65. I can give you a brief timeline of sorts...

Obama was sponsoring a "community outreach" tour of Gospel Singers in South Carolina. One of the acts was one Donnie McClurkin, who was an admitted "ex-gay" and homophobe, who called homosexuality a curse, etc. At least 2 other acts also have made homophobic remarks in the past.

At the time the tour was scheduled, Obama's campaign apparently wasn't aware of this. Several GLBT civil rights groups then contacted the campaign and told them about McClurkin and the others, and asked that they be removed from the tour.

Obama issued a statement saying he disagreed with McClurkin(whatever that means), but was NOT removing him from the tour. Obama assured the GLBT community that McClurkin was only going to sing on the tour, not say anything about his "ex-gayness" or whatever.

Tour went off without a hitch, except that McClurkin MC'ed the event, and was allowed a half hour where he claimed that through the grace of Christ, he was "saved from homosexuality", to a packed audience of people who roared their approval in a manner that is best described as something akin to a Klan rally.

Obama wasn't there, except through video conference, mentioned that McClurkin, and a couple of other singers, were some of his "favorite acts".

After that, Obama again reiterated that he disagreed with McClurkin.

I think that sums things up.

[ecstatic]

20. Edwards on Gay Marriage at Faith Forum

John Edwards was faced with the issue of gay marriage, that he avoided the day before. He was asked at the Faith & Values Forum aired live on CNN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV-OQtCvhUo&feature=related

Is this excusable?

[GalleryGod]

21. Are any of you Hillary Supporters actually in a HQ or phone bank actually helping her campaign?

I think her time has passed, and her window has closed, however... Sen. Clinton's campaign has,by far, the most LOCAL HQ's across the nation...if I had endorsed her candidacy...I'd be WORKING for her campaign in an HQ or at a local phone bank, or getting lawn signs ON lawns..or stuffing mailers..or organizing young, energetic First Timers, how to Do It best.

If you've logged time at Hillary HQ in the past week..check in and "Testify" as I do below!

***********************************************************************
Me? I logged over 30 hours at the Camden, N.J. Obama HQ last week.
Talk? Yes! The Walk? Indeed!
***********************************************************************
BONUS: I have all my (college) students "in the field" working on campaigns of their choosing. Each student had to provide me with their contact/mentor with their chosen campaign.*

* A 5 page paper of their personal experiences is due on Friday,February 8th, 2008





Welcome to the Field, Ted !

[meow mix]

26. wow @ you hillary supporters..

not surpised in seeing more threads like this, talk about spiteful and sad

[GalleryGod]

42. Might be "Keyboard Kommandos",Friend

The Lion of Winter has returned to the field of battle...Hoo-Rah!

[mod mom]

44. woah...if that isn't a bait and switch.

[cboy4]

46. K&R

[BenDavid]

53. since when has referring to somebody’s past admitted drug use

been a racial slur? More racist, I would say, to equate drugs with blacks, and that’s what the Obama campaign is doing, not the Clinton one.

As for Mrs Clinton’s statement that Martin Luther King’s dream of racial equality was realised only when President Johnson managed to get the 1964 Civil Rights Act through Congress? No more than fact, surely; an attack on Mr Obama’s lack of experience, certainly, but hardly a slur upon King. Mr Obama’s campaign is twisting things so that a comment about any black man is a comment about him, just as any attack on him is an attack on all black people. I ask again: who is playing the race card here?

[IndianaJones]

69. I have no idea what you're talking about. nt.

[mondo joe]

72. I'm a Clinton supporter because I was disgusted by Obama. Not the reverse.

Just saying.