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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:01 PM
Original message
obama will cut nasa funding, there goes Florida...
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 09:37 PM by cloud75
The Baltimore Sun Blog, November 20, 2007

Obama plan: reward teachers, lengthen school time

by Christi Parsons

Barack Obama is planning to unveil an education plan today that would make affordable pre-school programs more widely available and offer pay incentive programs for effective teachers.

It would also allow schools to lengthen the teaching day or the school year. The $18 billion annual program would be offset by savings and cuts in federal agencies, including NASA.

According to the Obama camp, the idea about teacher incentives is not the same thing as merit pay, a concept long opposed by teachers' unions. It would not be tied to test scores and would be available to districts that wanted to "innovate" with new programs.

The cost of the early education plan would come partly from delaying the NASA Constellation Program for five years, cutting costs in the government procurement process and auctioning surplus federal property. The Obama plan also cites "closing the CEO pay deductibility loophole" and ending the Iraq war as other ways to pay for the program.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/11/obama_plan_rewards_for_teacher.html
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not Merit pay??????? It sure sounds like pretty far down the slippery slope....
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 09:06 PM by Gloria
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Lengthen the teaching day? The school year?? Is he CRAZY?
No "teacher rewards" will sweeten that shit pie, sorry. Teachers like their vacations, and as it is, they take papers HOME to correct, many of them.

Do you have a link to the article?
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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. link
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Thanks so much--appreciate it! nt
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'd prefer he leave NASA out of it.
I'm a great supporter of the space program. It needs more money, not less.
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sfam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Absolutely agree
Yes, we need better support for Educations, but how 'bout we take that out of the 10 billion a month to Iraq vice NASA?
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. My thoughts exactly...
and welcome to DU!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. That, and Lieberman on a McCain =Lieberman ticket, means you can call FL for the GOP. Again. NT
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. school day and teachers pay are under local control
after you get past certain required minimums
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Not all states have teachers unions
and in those states, yes, you can set up federal mandates on school day length etc.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. apples and oranges
why don't you see if every state has a department of education
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. SO MUCH LIKE JFK
:rofl:
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. you're an ass
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. We went over this lastnight. But if you insist.
NASA is only one small section and like the military their votes are already considered Republican.

The agency has been militarized and politicized and cronyized to its own peril. It is incestuous with the hanging on of past "heroes" and a good housekeeping will do it good.

It is particularly funny that NASA is Republican since it was JFK that gave them their most famous mission. Since then it has not produced anything but budget overuns and late (I mean late) missions.

Here's a hint: all of you true rocket lovers go work for Rutan and get back to the true adventure. The parasites are killing the agency.



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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Note the citation: The Baltimore Sun Blog
It's a fucking blog post. So this person posts on a news papers blog then references it here.

WHERE'S THE BEEF?
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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. link
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. NASA remains on the forefront
of bearing witness to climate change and its causes. Recent controversy over Whitehouse suppression of NASA dara and opinion would seem to be inconsistent with your statement.

On the other hand I think if you are referring specifically to the manned spaceflight program, I would probably have to agree with you. NASA is by no means a monolith.
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never_get_over_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Big flaw in your thinking
it not just the folks who work at NASA but the whole freaking community around them that don't want jobs and such to go away from there - you know trickle down theory - what's bad for NASA is bad for the entire Space Coast of Florida - and oh did you realize Florida is a VERY important state in the general election - and oh by the way BARACK OBAMA WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER CARRY THIS STATE....

oh I can hear the robocalls now.....
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here is Obama's plan for NASA:
Over the decades, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has embodied the adventurous spirit that lifted this nation to greatness and inspired people around the world. Barack Obama believes that the United States needs a strong space program to help maintain its superiority not only in space, but also here on earth in the realms of education, technology, and national security. Over the years, NASA technology has been applied to improve everything from computers and medical technology to baby formula and automobiles. Work done at NASA, whether here on earth or in outer space, impacts the daily lives of all Americans.

Develop the Next-Generation of Space Vehicles: The retirement of the Space Shuttle in 2010 will leave the United States without manned spaceflight capability until the introduction of the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) carried by the Ares I Launch Vehicle. As president, Obama will support the development of this vital new platform to ensure that the United States' reliance on foreign space capabilities is limited to the minimum possible time period. The CEV will be the backbone of future missions, and is being designed with technology that is already proven and available.

Complete the International Space Station: The International Space Station is an example of what we can accomplish through international cooperation. Barack Obama is committed to the completion of the International Space Station.

Continue Unmanned Missions: Robotic missions provide a level of endurance and cost-effectiveness that is unsurpassed. The Voyager probes, launched in the 1970s, are still sending back data beyond our solar system. Closer to home, the Spirit and Opportunity rovers have been exploring the surface of Mars for more than 1,300 days, 14 times longer than their intended mission length. Along with Earth-orbiting platforms like the Hubble Space Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, unmanned missions have yielded some of the greatest scientific discoveries of the last century. Barack Obama is committed to a bold array of robotic missions that will expand our knowledge of the solar system and lay the foundations for further manned exploration.

Monitor the Forces and Effects of Climate Change: Barack Obama has proposed bold initiatives to put America on the path to stop global climate change. His administration will set standards based on rigorous scientific inquiry that, in turn, cannot take place without a capable space program. The task of researching and understanding the forces that affect our home planet will require a constellation of climate monitoring space platforms. As president, Obama will ensure that NASA has the funding necessary to play its part in the fight against global climate change.

Support Scientific Research: In the past, government funding for scientific research has yielded innovations that have improved the landscape of American life, technologies like the Internet, digital photography, bar codes, Global Positioning System technology, laser surgery, and chemotherapy. Today, we face a new set of challenges, yet the United States is losing its scientific dominance. Over the last three decades, federal funding for the physical, mathematical and engineering sciences has declined at a time when other countries are substantially increasing their own research budgets. Barack Obama believes federally funded scientific research should play an important role in advancing science and technology in the classroom and in the lab. He will work to diversify the makeup of the scientific community and provide federal research programs a much- needed infusion of funds.

Maintain Surveillance to Strengthen National Security: Orbiting surveillance satellites provide a vital way to ensure compliance with non-proliferation treaties and monitor emerging threats. For example, nuclear facility construction in North Korea and Iran can be closely monitored from above without the challenges faced by weapons inspectors on the ground. Satellites can be further used in the effort to secure loose nuclear weapons and materials around the world, an effort which Barack Obama has promoted aggressively in the U.S. Senate.

Keep Weapons out of Space: China's successful test of an anti-satellite missile in January 2007 signaled a potential new arms race in space. Barack Obama does not support the stationing of any weapons in space. He believes the international community must address the issue of space weaponization head-on and enter into a serious dialogue with Russia, China and other nations to stop this slow slide into a new battlefield.

Strengthen Math and Science Education: Fifty years after Sputnik, science and math education in American schools is facing a crisis. As the Gathering Storm report concluded, "danger exists that Americans may not know enough about science, technology or mathematics to contribute significantly to, or fully benefit from, the knowledge-based economy that is already taking shape around us." Barack Obama will make math and science education a national priority, and provide our schools with the tools to educate 21st-Century learners.

* Recruit High-Quality Math and Science Teachers: Barack Obama's will establish a Teaching Service Scholarship program to recruit an army of new teachers. These scholarships will prioritize recruiting math, science and technology degree graduates. Obama will create Teacher Residency Programs to train teachers using mentorship, graduate study and hands-on training to develop 30,000 teachers a year, providing additional teachers in math and science. In addition, Obama will devote $100 million a year to Professional Development Schools to help new teachers, or veteran teacher needing to hone their skills, learn from professionals in the field. Professional Development Schools will partner universities with school sites that exhibit state-of-the-art practices and train new teachers in the classrooms of expert teachers while they are completing coursework.

* Enhanced Science Instruction: Barack Obama will work with governors to create flexible and workable systems for the states to achieve the goal of ensuring all children have access to strong a science curriculum at all grade levels. Obama will also support state efforts to make science education a priority at the pre-K level.

* Improve and Prioritize Science Assessments: Science assessments need to do more than test facts and concepts. They need to use a range of measures to test inquiry and higher-order thinking skills including inference, logic, data analysis and interpretation, forming questions, and communication. Barack Obama will work with governors and educators to ensure that state assessments measure these skills.


http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=26647
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. link?
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cloud75 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. link
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 09:34 PM by cloud75
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. "auctioning surplus federal property."
Such as....
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. more educated kids will do a lot more for the future of our space program
than just funding it without educating the kids.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. I've got no problem with delaying Constellation. Manned spaceflight is now a waste of money.
Robotic spaceflight and pure science are useful. Manned spaceflight is not.

But I'm open to evidence suggesting otherwise.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I support both, actually.
I think the future of mankind is out there, which means we have to continue operations that expand our understanding of how we'll fare in the long run.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. Gut NASA? What about military spending?
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Tulkas Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. we need to rebuild the military after Bush's war, can't make big cuts there for years
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Are you serious? We account for half of the entire -world's- military spending
In other words, as much as every other nation combined. You'd argue we should increase the margin?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Obama wants to increase the military
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. He cuts NASA
It means one more person who will go to the GE and hold her nose while voting, if he gets the nomination. NO progressive can be a true progressive and do away with the space program. The Agency has been depleted repeatedly for the past 30 years and the disasters which have occurred during that time have been caused by all the cutbacks.

So let us give up on what was always a dream, anyhow. We made it to the moon, and now we can look forward to saying goodbye to all that program promised. Way to go. Perhaps a republican president might not be so bad, anyhow. At least whoever it is, isn't Bush.
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I agree, cutting NASA programs is not good
but the story doesn't say by how much. I think America needs to be investing in the sciences including NASA.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Here's his plan for NASA and it includes new space vehicles and unmanned missions:
Over the decades, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has embodied the adventurous spirit that lifted this nation to greatness and inspired people around the world. Barack Obama believes that the United States needs a strong space program to help maintain its superiority not only in space, but also here on earth in the realms of education, technology, and national security. Over the years, NASA technology has been applied to improve everything from computers and medical technology to baby formula and automobiles. Work done at NASA, whether here on earth or in outer space, impacts the daily lives of all Americans.

Develop the Next-Generation of Space Vehicles: The retirement of the Space Shuttle in 2010 will leave the United States without manned spaceflight capability until the introduction of the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) carried by the Ares I Launch Vehicle. As president, Obama will support the development of this vital new platform to ensure that the United States' reliance on foreign space capabilities is limited to the minimum possible time period. The CEV will be the backbone of future missions, and is being designed with technology that is already proven and available.

Complete the International Space Station: The International Space Station is an example of what we can accomplish through international cooperation. Barack Obama is committed to the completion of the International Space Station.

Continue Unmanned Missions: Robotic missions provide a level of endurance and cost-effectiveness that is unsurpassed. The Voyager probes, launched in the 1970s, are still sending back data beyond our solar system. Closer to home, the Spirit and Opportunity rovers have been exploring the surface of Mars for more than 1,300 days, 14 times longer than their intended mission length. Along with Earth-orbiting platforms like the Hubble Space Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, unmanned missions have yielded some of the greatest scientific discoveries of the last century. Barack Obama is committed to a bold array of robotic missions that will expand our knowledge of the solar system and lay the foundations for further manned exploration.

Monitor the Forces and Effects of Climate Change: Barack Obama has proposed bold initiatives to put America on the path to stop global climate change. His administration will set standards based on rigorous scientific inquiry that, in turn, cannot take place without a capable space program. The task of researching and understanding the forces that affect our home planet will require a constellation of climate monitoring space platforms. As president, Obama will ensure that NASA has the funding necessary to play its part in the fight against global climate change.

Support Scientific Research: In the past, government funding for scientific research has yielded innovations that have improved the landscape of American life, technologies like the Internet, digital photography, bar codes, Global Positioning System technology, laser surgery, and chemotherapy. Today, we face a new set of challenges, yet the United States is losing its scientific dominance. Over the last three decades, federal funding for the physical, mathematical and engineering sciences has declined at a time when other countries are substantially increasing their own research budgets. Barack Obama believes federally funded scientific research should play an important role in advancing science and technology in the classroom and in the lab. He will work to diversify the makeup of the scientific community and provide federal research programs a much- needed infusion of funds.

Maintain Surveillance to Strengthen National Security: Orbiting surveillance satellites provide a vital way to ensure compliance with non-proliferation treaties and monitor emerging threats. For example, nuclear facility construction in North Korea and Iran can be closely monitored from above without the challenges faced by weapons inspectors on the ground. Satellites can be further used in the effort to secure loose nuclear weapons and materials around the world, an effort which Barack Obama has promoted aggressively in the U.S. Senate.

Keep Weapons out of Space: China's successful test of an anti-satellite missile in January 2007 signaled a potential new arms race in space. Barack Obama does not support the stationing of any weapons in space. He believes the international community must address the issue of space weaponization head-on and enter into a serious dialogue with Russia, China and other nations to stop this slow slide into a new battlefield.

Strengthen Math and Science Education: Fifty years after Sputnik, science and math education in American schools is facing a crisis. As the Gathering Storm report concluded, "danger exists that Americans may not know enough about science, technology or mathematics to contribute significantly to, or fully benefit from, the knowledge-based economy that is already taking shape around us." Barack Obama will make math and science education a national priority, and provide our schools with the tools to educate 21st-Century learners.

* Recruit High-Quality Math and Science Teachers: Barack Obama's will establish a Teaching Service Scholarship program to recruit an army of new teachers. These scholarships will prioritize recruiting math, science and technology degree graduates. Obama will create Teacher Residency Programs to train teachers using mentorship, graduate study and hands-on training to develop 30,000 teachers a year, providing additional teachers in math and science. In addition, Obama will devote $100 million a year to Professional Development Schools to help new teachers, or veteran teacher needing to hone their skills, learn from professionals in the field. Professional Development Schools will partner universities with school sites that exhibit state-of-the-art practices and train new teachers in the classrooms of expert teachers while they are completing coursework.

* Enhanced Science Instruction: Barack Obama will work with governors to create flexible and workable systems for the states to achieve the goal of ensuring all children have access to strong a science curriculum at all grade levels. Obama will also support state efforts to make science education a priority at the pre-K level.

* Improve and Prioritize Science Assessments: Science assessments need to do more than test facts and concepts. They need to use a range of measures to test inquiry and higher-order thinking skills including inference, logic, data analysis and interpretation, forming questions, and communication. Barack Obama will work with governors and educators to ensure that state assessments measure these skills.
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
33. "The $18 billion annual program would be offset by savings and cuts in federal agencies, including
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 10:35 PM by Penndems
NASA."

Is he crazy? The entire federal government, with the exceptions of State and Defense, has been cut to the bare bone, for God's sake. We had to wait for three frappin' months just for a continuing resolution to pass through Congress and be signed off on by The Village Idiot.

I spent the entire holiday season wondering if our agency personnel were gonna get pinked-slipped (including yours truly), and this man is talking further reductions in government spending?

Forget it, pal . . . er, Senator Obama!
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