Need help from Kerry supporters

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

I had dinner tonight with some Libertarian friends. We both liked and supported Dean, but with him out of the race, I was trying my best to convince them to vote for Kerry and not some third party, but I couldn't. What are the best arguments I can use to persuade people to vote Kerry, besides the obvious one that Bush is terrible and needs to be voted out of office? BTW, these folks are under the impression that Kerry is Bush Lite.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. I want real facts that I can use to convince people for whom the ABB argument is not enough.

[Catholic Sensation]

1. If they're libertarian, explain that since Bush took office

the size of the federal government has increased, I believe, two fold.

Explain that Bush's gay marriage amendment involves the federal government in people's personal lives.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. They hate Bush, but

they don't see a reason to vote for Kerry. That is the problem. They are seriously thinking of voting third party because they don't see Kerry as any different than Bush.

[KC21304]

2. If they are enjoying Bush so much I wouldn't even bother.

If not, then it should be a no brainer. For all the libertarians I know the Supreme Court is enough.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. They hate Bush.

But they think Kerry is more of the same. Since I'm not up on Kerry's stands on things, I need help so I can tell them about Kerry's positions.

[seabeyond]

5. i dont know that you can

yet i would suggest to your friends to for a time open their minds and listen and watch the man for a little. cause i have seen since iowa, a shift in the man. i have watched him learn and hear dean and gain some insight, i have seen him listen and learn from edwards gain some insight, and i am sure he has done the same with sharpton anyway. and has been listening to the people.

i am seeing this man is seeing more and more the inside political he had been sitting in and the country is thirsty for something more. and he may, in his courage be able to shift self to a more independent, than political insider most are wary of

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Thank you

I will be looking as well. It seemed to me Kerry had taken some of Dean's fire and Clark's wonderful attacks on Shrub.

[Blue-Jay]

6. The "Bush Lite" argument is bullshit.

Is he an "insider"? Sure. Is it worth staying home or voting for a third party? Hell NO. A baby step is at least a step in the right direction.

Idealism is fine, but the reality of the situation is Bush or not Bush ,to simplify it. Look beyond IWR and Patriot for a moment... Kerry acted like the typical politician and sold out on those two issues to stay afloat, politically. It sucks, but that's the truth. Look at his previous record. Before 9/11, he was "our guy".

The "big picture" is now the important thing. Cast aside your biases, and do what's necessary.

[SerpentX]

8. Who takes their marching orders from the fundamentalists?

Those kOoKs love social authority.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Since my friends practice Native American religion

I don't think you can call them fundamentalists. :)

[SerpentX]

10. Between * and Kerry.

I don't know any real Libertarians who could actually be called fundamentalists in the religious sense. Well, unless you count objectivists ...

[union_maid]

11. As long as they're not voting Bush..it's not so bad

Kerry really is a liberal. He's a liberal who understands mainstream America. Libertarians are neither. A strong libertarian third party would be a challenge to Bush more than to Kerry. Maybe they could support one of those. If they're just interested in what we've come to consider basic civil liberties, though, they should support the candidate most likely to unseat Bush and that's Kerry.

[molly]

12. Tell them to think back where we were 4 years ago

where we are today and forecast another 4 years of w. That should do it.