Kucinich is out; tell me who to choose, without arguing electability

[undeterred]

I am open to all.

[thunder rising]

1. Do you really need somebody to TELL you who to vote for? It's really a personal thing ya'know

[undeterred]

20. I really am at kind of a loss.

And at this moment I am more open than I have been in months. Once there were eight. Now there are 3 that I really don't want, but I will vote in the primary, so I would like to hear positive things.

[Kucinich4America]

2. Edwards is the most progressive of the three

At least in his rhetoric. Much of which he borrowed from Dennis.

[OmahaBlueDog]

3. I think Edwards is your logical choice

[SoFlaJet]

4. ABHRC

that is if you want to see a democrat in the Oval Office and not John McCain or Mitt Romney-which is what will happen if she is the nominee-it's not just about "electability" it's about half the country hating the Clintons and not wanting them back in power to continue this divisiveness between the parties

[Mme. Defarge]

5. Obviously

not Hillary.

[Cleita]

6. For being closest to Dennis's principles, Edwards of course.

Clinton and Obama are centrists and will not effect the change this country needs like Edwards has the potential to do.

[OzarkDem]

7. Edwards is most progressive; best health care plan

His plan is the one most likely to get us to a single payer system, but still get past Congress.

[Barack_America]

8. I can't tell you who you should choose.

But if you have any questions about Obama, I'll do my best to answer them.

Best of luck in making your decision!

[undeterred]

14. I would love to hear 3 good arguments why I should vote for Obama

that have nothing to do with electability. I know most people think Edwards is the logical succesor to Kucinich voters. But I see that he has reinvented himself so there is a trust issue there.

[Barack_America]

60. I guess I would have to know what your top issues are.

I don't really want to argue for anyone to vote for anybody, but I'd be happy to present Obama's positions.

[undeterred]

64. Ending the occupation in Iraq

and rebuilding our military

Balancing the budget, reducing the deficit, redirecting funds toward basic human needs like providing access to health care for all

Improving the economy and making sure there is a safety net for the unemployed and the retired

[sniffa]

9. Lee Mercer, Jr.

Everyone will get a check from the government for $350K, and he will end all wars including the 50 Years War.

[undeterred]

25. What is the 50 years war?

Is he gonna fix your keyboard?

[sniffa]

29. I don't know what war that is.

But he's going to end it. And my keyboard can be replaced with the money we're getting once he becomes President (all three).

[NoPasaran]

74. The Fifty Years War is what's left

After subtracting the Thirty Years War, the Seven Years War, and the War of the Spanish Succession from the Hundred Years War.

[geiger]

10. Obama; he's got the temperment and quiet confidence in his core beliefs

He's talking intelligently and diligently about all the issues, and he takes on his detractors philosophically, not personally.

[LordJFT]

11. Obama's the only candidate left who opposed the war in the beginning

when it mattered

[undeterred]

15. In Illinois.

[LordJFT]

23. what's your point?

If you're accusing Obama of pandering his district was more moderate than Dennis's.

[undeterred]

35. No point.

I lived in his neighborhood until 2000. I knew he was a professor at the University of Chicago Law School. I met his wife in front of the grocery store, and signed his petition to run for Congress in 2000 (and voted for him). But I did not know he was an elected state official (mine) until after I moved to Wisconsin and he became big news.

I'm just saying he wasn't in national office when the war started. He was highly respected and well thought of at the University of Chicago (which has contributed enough crap to the US government that its high time they contribute something really good.)

[papau]

12. Going from left to right - its Edwards, then Hillary - but the favorite is the more conservative O

[undeterred]

16. Do you think Obama is more conservative than Hillary?

Why?

[papau]

48. The small step approach that was in the Spring 07 interviews and again in the Newyorker

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar?printable=true

He tends to underplay his knowledge, acting less informed than he is. He rarely accuses, preferring to talk about problems in the passive voice, as things that are amiss with us rather than as wrongs that have been perpetrated by them. And the solutions he offers generally sound small and local rather than deep-reaching and systemic. Take a recent forum in Las Vegas on health care. Here are Hillary Clinton and Obama speaking about the same subject, preventive care.

Despite the criticism he has received for being all inspiration and no policy, Obama has so far stuck to what appears to be an instinct that white papers belong on Web sites, not in speeches.

In his view of history, in his respect for tradition, in his skepticism that the world can be changed any way but very, very slowly, Obama is deeply conservative. There are moments when he sounds almost Burkean. He distrusts abstractions, generalizations, extrapolations, projections. It’s not just that he thinks revolutions are unlikely: he values continuity and stability for their own sake, sometimes even more than he values change for the good. Take health care, for example. “If you’re starting from scratch,” he says, “then a single-payer system”—a government-managed system like Canada’s, which disconnects health insurance from employment—“would probably make sense. But we’ve got all these legacy systems in place, and managing the transition, as well as adjusting the culture to a different system, would be difficult to pull off. So we may need a system that’s not so disruptive that people feel like suddenly what they’ve known for most of their lives is thrown by the wayside.”

[undeterred]

50. I heard someone say that they thought he would make

a perfect Supreme Court Justice rather than a president. He has a brilliant legal mind and he tends to weigh things very carefully - and despite the fact that he has much more charisma than most judges or justices- his way of thinking so deliberatively is oriented more toward that kind of problem solving than the kind of thinking you do in the presidents office.

I thought that was a really interesting comment and it comes to mind now every time I hear Obama- he might be an excellent SC justice or AG, but is his thinking geared toward presidential decision making.

Although I don't like the KIND of decisions Hillary might make, I feel like her WAY of thinking might be more like the the way presidents are supposed to think.

Did I just say that?

I'm not sure I have a handle on Edwards style of thinking, but he is a lawyer too, and its that confrontational trial lawyer style that has made the corporations terrified of him.

So, yes I really am open to this.

[papau]

72. based on policy and the decisions and degree of push I want-Edwards then Hillary - I fear the bipart

bipartisan concept is a another way of saying the Brown decision's "deliberate speed" - but while holding to principle (Obama says he will not violate his principles and I believe him - but I fear he would not be adverse to VERY small steps).

[ellisonz]

13. Obama doesn't just talk the talk, he's walked the walk.

[undeterred]

17. Because he's been an activist?

By the way, I went to his church in Chicago on Christmas day 10 years ago. My friend and I were the only white people. Serice lasted 3 hours. Those black folks sure can worship! Jeremiah Wright is really something.

[ellisonz]

49. Yes, and he has a strong progressive legislative record.

He's actually reformed lobbying in Washington, HRC and JRE, not so much.

[begin_within]

18. Edwards.

[undeterred]

19. I am from WI and a Feingold follower of course.

He has been asked who he is endorsing, and he says he is considering Clinton and Obama, which shocks the heck out of me. Edwards positions are the same as his, but they were his first, and and I think that aggravates him. It amazes me that he would consider Hillary. But he is never an easy man to figure.

[yardwork]

21. Whomever you support, try to do more good than harm.

With some of the so-called supporters around here, we don't need Republicans.

[AndyA]

22. I think you should spend some time at each candidate's site and go from there.

No one should tell you who to vote for. No one truly knows how you feel on the issues, this is something that you personally must decide for yourself.

Sometimes, you have to decide by process of elimination. A candidate will do or say something that you just can't tolerate, and you check them off your list.

Decide what's most important, what you can and cannot tolerate, and do a little research.

The one to support will come to you.

Good luck in your search! :)

[AtomicKitten]

24. Obama.

He was right on the Iraq war from the beginning; both Clinton and Edwards wrong.

Clinton then went on to vote for K-L.

Edwards' record as a Senator was quite moderate; he has changed his platform to populism.

Obama has a very liberal voting record, more so than the other two, despite the factually incorrect assertion otherwise.

Good luck on your choice.

[BenDavid]

26. if you want flash and dash with no understanding of what this

candidate really believes then choose obama and listen to one of his speeches. You will sooon see as so many of us have that obama's passion lay in his next speech.....

Now if you want someone that is qualified to be president and EXPERIENCED to be president and one which lets you know how she stands on the major issues and will discuss them openly, then I say HRC. You do not have to like HRC in the terms to have a beer with, but one that you can trust to lead this country, then HRC is the one.

I did not write edwards because he is heads above obama and of the three I suggest you look at hrc and john edwards

[cyclezealot]

27. Kucinich is on our primary ballot still.

and they are and will be Kucinich votes. No one else comes close.

[undeterred]

62. He will still be on ours too.

But what purpose would it serve to vote for him now?

[cyclezealot]

63. Because we are voting for what it is we believe in

and a leader that does not fail. No one else comes close. As Kucinich says. He read the Patriot act. The others obviously did not. and I don't forgive; even if in November we will have to vote for the lesser evil choice. If it were not for Kucinich on the ballot, we'd like to vote for a write in or none of the above.

[undeterred]

65. Feingold read it too, and he is even better than Dennis.

Feingold-Kucinich. There's a ticket.

[cyclezealot]

79. Feingold was an early favorite

Had he run as we had hoped, probably DK would have chosen not to run himself. Stupid people, its not vanity , its issues. None compare. Feingold is a favorite. I'd have to research Feingold's record to see if it can compare with Kucinich's. People say, you have to compromise.
On the Patriot Act, Trade, and Empire. NO one should not and we won't. Not in the primaries anyway.
A message from the hearts of California Kucinich supporters. Carry on.
************************************************************************************************************
"Californians for Kucinich. "

Vote for Dennis Kucinich on Feb 5th.

Dennis is on the California Primary Ballot. Here are some reasons you should still vote for him:

If Dennis Kucinich gets 15% in a Congressional District, we, the people will have delegates at the Democratic Convention where we can push for the issues Dennis has so bravely put forward during this campaign.
A vote for Dennis Kucinich is a way of showing the corporate-controlled media that they are not in control of the people. WE decide who our candidates are - not them!
A vote for Dennis Kucinich will show the leaders of the California Democratic Party that we are furious that they have conspired to keep Dennis out of the campaign; excluding him from the debates and sending out a mailer for the primary that omitted Dennis Kucinich.
Help Dennis Stay in Congress!

We have seen many times that Dennis Kucinich has stood alone to speak out for truth, justice and peace in our House of Representatives. Now, the Democratic Party and corporate special interests have put up four competitors and tons of money to take Dennis out of Congress. Please do whatever you can you help keep our voice in the People's House. Go to www.kucinich.us to make a contribution or help the campaign.

This is the Start of a Movement.

This is not the end of a campaign, it is the beginning of a movement. We have all learned so much from this campaign about organizing and communicating. Now we are ready to turn those lessons into something bigger that can propel our nation in a new direction. Dennis Kucinich has been our inspiration and guide. Now it is up to all of us to build on it - from the bottom up.


Please go to www.integritynow.org to sign up to be part of the national movement that is evolving from this campaign. Here in California we are planning to keep our DK Teams going beyond the Primary. I hope you will join us as we re-invent the way we "do politics". We will be using the NetRootz tools to stay in touch. If you don't want to continue hearing from me and your local DK Team, please use the unsubscribe below to remove your name from our list. And if you are getting this email as a pass-along and want to be on our list, please go to www.California4Kucinich.com to sign up. Over the next few weeks we will be changing the name and evolving our mission.

Thank you!

It has been a pleasure working on this campaign and getting to know the most amazing people. I wish I could personally meet and thank all of you. Your phone calls and emails and good wishes have helped me through the challenge of running a campaign while going through chemotherapy treatments. Without all of you, all of your prayers, and inspiration, and help, I never could have done either. You'll be hearing a lot more from me over the coming months and I hope to hear from you!

In peace & hope,

Jeeni Criscenzo


Jeeni Criscenzo
PO Box 927, Oceanside, CA 9204

Keep the issues alive

VOTE KUCINICH

[Yael]

28. Edwards is standing and giving a voice to the very people Dennis stands for

[Yael]

30. If you like **DRAMA** and want all of that back in Washington, HRC would be the choice

Depends on whether you are looking forward or backward.

Then again, Dennis threw his support to Obama, so there is that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Gravel is closer to Kooch than any of the others.

[lastliberalintexas]

34. Really?

Tell me more. I keep hearing Gravel from so many Kucinich supporters, but I personally can't get past the "Fair" Tax issue to even look into him any further.

[undeterred]

36. I thought he was out.

Or maybe he's just been locked out so long it feels like it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Here you go.

[lastliberalintexas]

41. But I really don't see how anyone who supports the "Fair" Tax

could honestly be considered that far left. The last progressive tax we pay in this country is the federal income tax, and he wants to replace it with a federal sales tax (which most economists say would have to be in the neighborhood of 40%). That, along with continued support of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, is a dealbreaker for me.

I'll have to look further into his policy stands, I guess.

[lastliberalintexas]

32. A brokered convention

and the nomination of Gore/Dean. :)




Yeah, I'm joking. Sort of.

[undeterred]

37. Kirsten Gore and Jimmy Dean?

:shrug:

[lastliberalintexas]

39. I could go for that

I hear she had really nice parents. And we might even be able to win the southern redneck vote if we give away free sausages. :)

[undeterred]

42. I started feeling old when I ate at a Jimmy Dean restuaurant

and the waitress asked me if I wanted the Seniors plate. I was barely 40, but I guess when you're 18 in Florida, everyone over 30 looks retired.

[sandnsea]

33. Constitutional Amendment making health care a Right

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet90/summary/900SJR0048.html

Free public college for any student with B-average
Principles that Obama supports on education funding:
Fund public school education in Illinois by increasing certain state taxes and decreasing local property taxes.
Provide state-funded tuition and fees to any Illinois student who attends a public college or university as long as they maintain a B average.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Education.htm

Check his record yourself
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet90/sponsor/OBAMA.html

He's the only one with this kind of record.

[undeterred]

40. Wow. That is impressive.

I'm so embarrassed that he was MY state senator when he did this and I wasn't paying attention. I probably voted for Obama then. I was studying for my MCSE and Clinton was in office... it took Bush to make me a politically aware activist.

[sandnsea]

44. I don't know my state legislators really well either

But that Constitutional Amendment impressed the hell out of me. Very few politicians will take that step. I am working income and I recognize the details in his plans that show he gets it. Waiting to implement mandates is key, and not relying on tax credits is another. I really think he will make big changes in this country for that very reason.

He's also the one that got murder interrogation video taping in your state, not that you'd ever need it, but he did it to protect the rights of death row criminals and went out on a limb to do it, that says something to me too. He's got the guts and the heart.

[undeterred]

46. I remember the fight about the death penalty

that was going on in Illinois at the time. I know some of the activists who fought to have Governor Ryan put a moratorium on it, something he can be proud of despite the scandals that plagued his administration. There was a doctor who worked in the prison system for years who also fought for this. And I also know a family whose child was killed by someone on death row- the killer was not executed because of the moratorium, but he died in 2002.

[jackson_dem]

73. It also isn't true

-snip-

By the time the legislation passed the Senate, in May 2004, Obama had written three successful amendments, at least one of which made key changes favorable to insurers.

Most significant, universal healthcare became merely a policy goal instead of state policy - the proposed commission, renamed the Adequate Health Care Task Force, was charged only with studying how to expand healthcare access. In the same amendment, Obama also sought to give insurers a voice in how the task force developed its plan.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/09/23/in_illinois_obama_dealt_with_lobbyists/?page=2

[2rth2pwr]

43. Don't be so open minded that your brain falls out

How long has the campaign been going on? You're asking anonymous posters at an internet forum to tell you how to vote?

What, are you 14?


Why don't you just flip a coin?

[davidwparker]

45. Edwards

[Pushed To The Left]

47. Well, Barack Obama is the only candidate of the remaining 3 who opposed the war from the beginning

Plus, Dennis Kucinich urged his supporters to make Obama their "second choice" during the Iowa caucuses.

[undeterred]

51. That's true.

Though he said it wasn't an endorsement.

The war is crap.

I do like listening to Obama.

[ErnestoG]

52. Get on the Obama Express

He's really all we have. The guy not only has his shit together, he is being acknowledged almost across party lines as someone who "inspires to the higher", and his likability doesn't hurt either.

[harun]

53. Edwards and/or Obama

I think both of them will have a policy of working not just to make rich people in this country more rich but work to give more middle and lower class people a shot at better: education, health care, work place, environment, etc.

My most important point for them is they will both work towards a foreign policy that isn't as Imperialistic and Fascist as the one we have now. While I don't expect a big change from either of them I think Hillary would continue with the same foreign policy B*sh has had or make it worse to prove she is not weak.

So I really like them both. With Obama doing so well in the primaries I think he will have no problem in the General Election. I think his VP pick will be very important and after thinking about the best choice for some time I still can't come up with who I think would be the best choice. I would actually like to see Russ Feingold as his pick for VP but I don't know who Obama likes to work with in the Senate. If he likes Biden that would be a great choice too.

[robbedvoter]

54. Gravel is not on my ballot - so I am voting Hillary. My reasons here: (see if it fits)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4231971&mesg_id=4231971

[sandnsea]

56. You've always been for Hillary

At least be honest about it. That would sound a whole lot better than that blowing in the emotional wind stuff that you just posted. Especially the Reagan stuff, which has been debunked so thoroughly that it's stunning to me anybody continues to post it.

[unapatriciated]

55. I'm a Kucinich fan who went Edwards

and I beleive in his message and that he is clearly the best of the three
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vZxOYF9ZAe0

[undeterred]

58. thanks

now I need to change to the computer with audio! (although I can see his passion)

[smalltowndem]

57. Edwards

I'd say Edwards.

[undeterred]

59. Welcome to DU!

Glad you made it. :hi:

[JVS]

61. Obama spoke out against the war while the other candidates were voting for it

[zulchzulu]

66. If the war is your issue, then Obama is your only true choice

Both Edwards and Clinton signed on for the war. Apologies or not, that is a critical mistake that shows a complete lack of judgment.

As for Obama voting for war funding, he wasn't going to just have the troops that Edwards and Clinton are complicit with putting in harm's way be left unprotected and without funding for the support they need when they return, should they not be in a body bag.

The war vote has cost this country a lot more than thousands of innocent deaths and trillions of dollars. The lack of judgment to know what happens when you unilaterally invade an Arab country and not have an exit plan and frankly not do your homework on the obvious bogus intelligence by the Bush administration is enough to not give either Edwards or Clinton a free pass. We will be paying for that decision (apology or not) for decades.

If you need to know what Dennis Kucinich would think, look at what he said in Iowa:

"I hope Iowans will caucus for me as their first choice ... But in those caucus locations where my support doesn't reach the necessary threshold, I strongly encourage all of my supporters to make Barack Obama their second choice."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004103369_campdig02.html

[rjones2818]

67. Let's see...

Are you for Universal Health Care minus the inusrance companies? You're not going to get that from the big three.

Are you for getting the troops out of Iraq ASAP, and not as a redeployment to Kuwait, etc.? You won't get that from the big three.

Are you concerened that 'free trade' has continued to rip our economy, particularly the manufacturing base, to shreds, and that NAFTA, the WTO and the new FT agreements willl just continue the same course? The big three want to 'fix' the agreements, not scrap them.

Are you pro-impeachment? The big three aren't.

The list goes on and on, as you know since you had the good sense to be a Kucnich supporter.

The only Dem left that might make more than window dressing changes is Mike Gravel.

Me, I'd say write Dennis in or vote for him if he's on your ballot.

[undeterred]

69. He's still on my ballot and on my heart;

If you don't vote your heart, then your heart never wins.

[rjones2818]

70. It's better to vote for something you want and not get it

than to vote for something you don't want and get it.

[Tulkas]

68. An Anti-Establishment Candidate, maybe one with a shot at winning

[rjones2818]

71. There's only one of those, right now,

and he's a Repug.

[Tulkas]

78. IMO both Edwards and Obama are "anti-establishment" compared to Clinton

I wasn't counting Ron Paul, sorry

[unkachuck]

75. '...open to all.'....?

....may I suggest you do what I'll be doing....I'm going to write-in:

*** Irving R. Levine ***

....to be our nominee, and/or if necessary, President!!!

[LittleBlue]

76. Base it on what they did before national office. BO is the only one who

was against the war before it begun. It shows a clear conscious.

[New Dawn]

77. Edwards is the best of the candidates who can still win more delegates

That is who I will be voting for.