I'll vote for Obama

[maddiejoan]

if he's the nominee.

It won't be enthusiastically.

Sorry. folks --but when I hear his message of Hope and Unity, I feel left out.

Obama says to his flocks that they should "embrace the gay community", but I don't feel embraced. I feel excluded from his message.

He's demonstrated with McClurkin and Caldwell his ability to reach too far across the divide to really ever include me. It makes his inspiring speeches ring hollow in my queer little ears.
And please --before someone chimes in with --but Hillary has homophobes on her campaign --EVERYONE has homophobes on their campaign. Our country is littered with homophobes.
It spans across all racial and gender divides. It's been said on the board that there are decent evangelicals (black and white) that are not homophobic, and this is quite true.

That's why it's maddening that Obama has seen fit to use the ones that ARE homophobic "ex-gays" and leaders of the "ex-gay" movement to have a voice in his campaign. He has done so without talking about the damage that the "ex-gay" movement has done to LGBT youth. Yes --it's true, he is okay on LGBT rights. He is about the same as Edwards and Clinton in fact --but his willingness to work with people who believe homosexuality is a "sinful choice", without educating them to the contrary is meaningless. It's a gesture. And it's dangerous --very very dangerous to even allow that opinion to fester on the political landscape.

So I'll vote for him.

That's the sad part. He knows I have no other option if he's the Democratic nominee.

The prospect of a Republican in the Whitehouse is worse -- At least that is what I HOPE.

[boston bean]

1. You are a better person than he is. He doesn't believe his supporters

will be able to bring themselves to vote for hillary.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Really?

Where do you get that idea?

[boston bean]

18. right from the horses mouth. don't you pay attention?

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. I guess I don't

Feel free to provide your evidence whenever you're ready.

:hi:

[boston bean]

24. you got it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCk5-J2QPsE

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Eh...seems like a fair question

:shrug:

[boston bean]

28. WTF i just gave you the link with him saying that.

[Occam Bandage]

32. A lot of his supporters are first-time voters or crossovers. I think it's fair to suggest

that those people would not back Sen. Clinton in the GE.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. I saw the link

You proved to me PART of your claim: Obama questions whether Hillary can bring all of Obama's supporters to the general. This is a little different than saying he believes his supporters will not vote for Hillary.

As I read it, Obama is saying the following: If I am bringing in independents, moderate GOPers, and new voters to the primaries, it's an open question whether they will stick with the Democratic nominee should that nominee be Hillary Clinton. If Senator Clinton's support resides mainly with core Democratic constituencies, then it is likely those people will vote for the nominee regardless.

This seems like an accurate assessment of the demographics, not like some moral failing on his part. Would you disagree with his assessment?

That said, most of Obama's supporters on THIS BOARD are hard-core Democrats and left-leaning independents, so it would seem MOST would vote for Hillary Clinton in the general.

[boston bean]

35. When the fuck will you obama supporters just take what he says

instead of making it what you thought he meant and try to portray it in a better light.

Most o supporters are blinded bye the light. I hope they get their vision back soon

[alcibiades_mystery]

Oh please

You can continue to be the one portraying YOUR negative interpretation as "just taking what he's saying," but honest people know that they are both interpretations. You are being dishonest.

Now, you can explain why your interpretation is better than mine, or you can dispute my interpretation on its merits. But you give up the field and show yourself to have no argument when you pretend that yours is NOT an interpretation at all. It clearly is.

[Marie26]

42. You, sir, win a pony! nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Ah ha

:shrug:

[ursi]

2. sometimes it seems ironic that only Clintons & their supporters can hope

[maddiejoan]

19. not sure I understand --

is that a dig?

[msongs]

3. exactly nt

[journalist3072]

4. I won't vote for him under any circumstances. If he happens to be the nominee, I'll either

sit this one out...or vote for the Republican nominee.

I really have no respect for Obama and the way he's run his campaign.

[neutron]

5. My feelings exactly

He has run a shrewd campaign.

[maddiejoan]

8. I respect your stand

But for me as a transgendered woman, a Republican in the WH is always trouble.

I came out of the closet as a transgendered woman in 1993, a far safer prospect under the Bill Clinton Presidency.

Why? Simply because a Democrat as President is ALWAYS a safer environment for queers.

It goes beyond legislation --it goes to the mood of the country.

The President sets TONE.

I'm not enthusiastic about the tone that Obama will set for LGBT, but I'm scared out of my mind about the tone set by anyone in the Republican field of candidates.

[yardwork]

43. I agree with you completely. Anyway, this primary season is not over.

I congratulate Obama and his campaign for their big win in South Carolina. However, SC will not support the Democratic presidential candidate in the general election. Those electoral college votes are guaranteed to go to the Republican candidate.

I'm sickened by Obama's pandering to the worst kind of homophobes - people responsible for the deaths and misery of millions of young people in our nation. I'm even more sickened by the dismissals of this concern on the part of his supporters - supposed "ambassadors of hope."

But I'll never, ever vote for a Republican and I won't vote third party or refuse to vote. Any Democrat in the White House is better than any of the Republicans running.

Obama knows this, of course. He knows that he can beat up the queers to get the homophobe vote, and we'll vote for him anyway. To win, he figures he's got to lure the homophobes to his camp. Such is politics in these times.

[cboy4]

50. So true yardwork. And the apple doesn't fall far from the

tree when it comes to some Obama supporters.

In fact, one just used the word "lifestyle" to describe us, before the poster changed it do to protest.

What a shame.

[yardwork]

52. Lifestyle, en? I'll give them some "lifestyle."

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. I hoipe, then, that you will vacate these boards if he wins the nomination

If you're not voting for the Democratic candidate, period, then I don't know what to tell you. You will be condemning the very LGBT youth the OP rightly seeks to help to a lifetime of discrimination, given the way the courts are likely to turn in the next 4-8 years. It's an absolutely disgusting thing to say, and immoral in the extreme. Your so-called righteousness on the primaries is exposed as little more than fangirldom and petty vindictiveness.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. OK so you are a Republican?

never mind

[journalist3072]

23. Registered Independent, who left the Democratic Party in 2005 over my fustration

with the fact that only one U.S. Senator (Barbara Boxer) had the courage of her convictions, to sign on to the House's objection of the certification of the Ohio electors.

[tekisui]

7. Thank you. I would vote for Clinton under the same circumstances.

I have trouble with his attitude towards the GLBT community, as well. We will have to exert great pressure on him for that.

With a substantial New Majority in Congress, strong Progressive voices could push him in the right direction.

I applaud you for acknowledging the real enemy is the Pukes.

[jefferson_dem]

10. I appreciate your statement, maddiejoan.

And applaud you for making it.

[maddiejoan]

13. You're welcome

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement, and I'm overcoming quite a lot of trepidation on my part to make it.

But there it is.

I HOPE if Obama becomes President, that the rest of you will support ME when I hold his feet to the fire on LGBT issues.

[gateley]

56. You have my support -- I'll do whatever I can.

We also need to get more Dems in Washington. This has been a process (much like "getting to" the place where we have someone other then all white men running for President) -- it's my hope that the process is moving forward in your favor, and that it will grow exponentially. Hang in there - we're with you!

:hug:

[Bread and Circus]

11. As an Obama supporter I want to thank you and admit that

putting McClurkin onstage as a spokesman was the wrong thing to do.

Whatever personal issues he might have, Mr. McClurkin should not have the temerity and ignorance to tell others how to feel about their sexual orientation. Misguiding others based on his religious "faith" is particarly horrendous imo. Religion and spirituality should be about love and unity, not tearing ourselves apart.

I can't pretend to act like I know about the struggle of gays and lesbians but I definitely know there is pain caused by prejudice, ignorance, and hatred.

In the end we are all just people, brothers and sisters and that is what should be honored.

On balance there is no perfect candidate running and for me Obama's overall message and way of running his campaign (despite some serious mistakes) have spoke the most to me. Different candidates speak to different people's aspirations and dreams.

I dream of a more unified country that gets together and solves its social problems, hopefully to allow more people to live more peacefully, well, and prosperously.

I can't say I always live up to those ideas here because this place, as loveable as it is, can be super duper infuriating - especially because people on ALL sides are not being honest about a lot of what is and has been happening.

I appreciate your honesty.

Anyway, FWIW :hug:

[yardwork]

48. Thanks, but you underrepresent McClurkin's behavior.

McClurkin's substantial income derives precisely from his campaign against queer people. Homophobia is not his hobby - it's his job. He's an entrepreneur who has become rich and famous by destroying the hope of millions.

For Obama - supposed bringer of hope - to embrace McClurkin and others like him is the worst kind of cynicism.

Thank you for post, though. If only the rest of Obama's supporters would recognize our point, there would be a lot less anger on this board.

[LittleBlue]

12. I really don't think you have anything to worry about. For BO, it's just a politically

expedient thing. You can't trust anyone after they've gone into politics. Look at Hillary: she used to embrace a totally different form of healthcare. I would be willing to bet she didn't change her mind on that because someone presented a better argument. Her current form of healthcare is not nearly as good as her first, but it is politically expedient. I honestly don't believe Hillary wants to reauthorize the Iraq war, but it is politically expedient.

Those pastors are there to convince Republicans to cross over, I think. If you look at his background as a typical teen, atheist, and constitutional lawyer, these don't equate to religious fundamentalist or anti-gay. For many churchgoers, it's more like a social club.

I'm sorry we left you out on this one. I hope we can try better next time to include you! :D

Signed,

BO supporter

[Kahuna]

14. I said that I wouldn't vote for Hillary. But after seeing the repuke debate

the other night, I've changed my mind. :scared:

[Benhurst]

15. I'll vote for him, too. But my vote won't count here in

North Carolina thanks to the winner-take-all nature of the Electoral College.

Despite yesterdays Democratic Party, South Carolina will go Republican as well if he is the nominee.

[mondo joe]

16. Me too. I'll plug my gay nose and vote for him. I can choose the lesser of two evils. NT

[sufrommich]

17. As a straight woman,I agree with you.

This guy just screams"republican lite" to me. I'll vote for him if he gets the nom,but I won't feel any sense of satisfaction as a Democrat at all.

[calico1]

20. Ditto..

The only things that keep me from sitting out the election if he is the nominee is the Supreme Court and the fact that I consider voting an important civic duty.

[Bluerthanblue]

25. Well, Maddiejoan, I can't

fault you for your honest feelings. I'm sorry that you feel excluded. I wish there were some way to change that.

I honor your decision to be willing to vote for Obama despite your own personal mis-givings, if the need arises. That cannot be an easy choice.

I don't view Obama's stand on GLBT equality in the same way as you, but that doesn't really matter.
I personally believe that you as a person and the oppression and prejudice against GLBT people is important to him- in spite of that foolish and mis-guided McClurken event. It was a bad mistake. But my beliefs don't change anything for you.

I will say- that regardless of who becomes president, I will stand beside you and all our brothers and sisters in the GLBT community in fighting against homophobia and towards true equality - however I can.


I wish you hope- and comfort- and peace~

blu

[flpoljunkie]

27. Have you read this excerpt from Obama's speech in Atlanta on MLK day, January 22nd?

It is no small thing for Obama to give this speech to black leaders in Atlanta on this particular day.

For most of this country's history, we in the African-American community have been at the receiving end of man's inhumanity to man. And all of us understand intimately the insidious role that race still sometimes plays - on the job, in the schools, in our health care system, and in our criminal justice system.

And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we're honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation.

So let us say that on this day of all days, each of us carries with us the task of changing our hearts and minds. The division, the stereotypes, the scape-goating, the ease with which we blame our plight on others - all of this distracts us from the common challenges we face - war and poverty; injustice and inequality. We can no longer afford to build ourselves up by tearing someone else down. We can no longer afford to traffic in lies or fear or hate. It is the poison that we must purge from our politics; the wall that we must tear down before the hour grows too late.

http://www.barackobama.com/2008/01/20/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_40.php

[maddiejoan]

31. Yes, I've read it

I even addressed it in my OP.

People in the "ex-gay" movement say much the same thing. Obama's use of such phrasing did very little to comfort me.

[MoonRiver]

29. I'll vote for him too, but I don't think he'll win the general.

We are at serious risk of 4 to 8 more years of a Rethuglican administration. :cry:

[libnnc]

30. Here's what gets me with our candidates

Why has it always been up to the WIVES of these candidates (with the exception of Kucinich) to make inroads with the LGBT community? Remember when Teresa Heinz Kerry made her "Mamma T" speech to gay activists (it may have been a PFLAG group)? In essence she said to those whose families did not support them because of sexual orientation "You all can call me Mama T". Same thing this election cycle. Elizabeth Edwards made an amazing speech to LGBT activists in CA last year (I think...may have been late '06). Will we see Michelle Obama address the mistakes that their campaign made? I don't expect Bill to go out of his way anytime soon.

It just frustrates me that so often, our candidates aren't comfortable dealing with our issues to our faces. And they expect me to give them my time, money and my vote?

Cheeky ones, aren't they?

[maddiejoan]

34. When Hillary was First Lady

it was her marching in Pride Parades and meeting with LGBT groups.

She doesn't need a woman by her side to move her in the right direction. I've heard her speak on LGBT issues in person.

She gets it.

[libnnc]

37. I know. That's the only thing that eases my mind about her.

Democratic WOMEN "get" it. The men (with the exception of Kooch)....not so much.

[mondo joe]

39. They remind me of parents of gays I've seen time and time again.

The moms get it, the dads not so much. At least to start out.

I know that's not always the case - in fact my in laws were the exact opposite. But of the families I've known, it was the most common dynamic.

[libnnc]

40. My mother is the exception of course -- a hopeless case

Refuses to acknowledge my relationship. It's been 15 years now. I finally gave up just before Thanksgiving. We haven't spoken since then.

She's a die-hard Dem but can't get her head around "teh gay" thing.

[mondo joe]

47. Sorry to hear it! My mother in law - may she rest in peace - started out similarly

when my partner came out, but she eventually improved. His dad was a sweetheart who asked him if there was a book he could read so he could understand it better.

[mondo joe]

36. We're just votes and a generous cash source way too often.

We've got to to figure out better options.

[maddiejoan]

38. We should refuse

to cater, decorate and entertain at their inaugural celebrations.

That'd learn'em.

[Mz Pip]

62. LOL!

Remember the first Bush Inaugural Ball? THere was one venue that had bales of hay scattered around. There might have even been some livestock. They served bison for the dinner. It seemed so in your face redneck Texas bullcrap (probably some of that was used for ornamentation.)

I can't imagine Obama, Hillary or Edwards doing anything like that.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[terrya]

41. You expressed my feelings about Obama far better than I could.

I don't think Obama really knows how abusive, how dangerous, the "ex-gay" movement is. He "strongly disagrees" with it like it's some policy position...quite frankly, I wish he would do some more reading about it. It's diametrically opposite the clip I saw yesterday of Hillary Clinton talking about GLBT youth. I heard her and thought that she got it...not something I get when Obama hires people like Donnie McClurkin. And I fear that with his win yesterday, his campaign will be more willing to use these people.

Like you, I'll vote for Obama in the general election. But I do with mixed feelings. Deep down, I think Barack Obama thinks GLBT people really don't matter in his America.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. seconded. my 'lifestyle' is important to me.

[Marie26]

46. Any Dem is better than a Republican

I firmly believe that. But Obama's stance on LGBT issues is definitely troubling. In his SC acceptance speech, he mentioned every group of Americans that he is going to unite & represent - Women & men, blacks & white, Latinos & Native Americans, and even Republicans & independents. But he didn't mention gays, not once.

[terrya]

51. That's sad.

No, wait...that sucks.

That's almost a "fuck you" to GLBT people.

[maddiejoan]

53. His speech last night

is the reason I made my OP.

[Arugula Latte]

49. That's how I feel about Hillary. nt

[Lerkfish]

54. good for you.

my assumption is that we would all vote for the nominee, so why announce it?

oh yeah, so you could trash him at the same time.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

58. psst. come here

"That's why it's maddening that Obama has seen fit to use the ones that ARE homophobic "ex-gays" and leaders of the "ex-gay" movement to have a voice in his campaign. He has done so without talking about the damage that the "ex-gay" movement has done to LGBT youth. Yes --it's true, he is okay on LGBT rights. He is about the same as Edwards and Clinton in fact --but his willingness to work with people who believe homosexuality is a "sinful choice", without educating them to the contrary is meaningless. It's a gesture. And it's dangerous --very very dangerous to even allow that opinion to fester on the political landscape.
"

how is this NOT a slam?

oh, thanks for your concern about what should be shoved up "mine". I call em as I see em.
If your post was sincere, you'd have left out what I quoted.

[maddiejoan]

59. Thank you

for trivializing my concerns.

[Lerkfish]

60. thanks for jumping to wrong conclusions.

I have been very vocal about my support for gay issues.
I'm not trivializing anything about equal rights.

all I'm doing is pointing out that your thread is disingenous at best.

that has nothing to do with your concerns, which are very valid, but with your backhanded methods.

for the record, I personally don't like any of the top three's stand on gay rights. I much preferred Kucinich's.

so, stop trying to mischaracterize things you don't know about.

[maddiejoan]

61. and now you have done it again.

You don't know me.

Don't accuse me of mischaracterizing you --while you get busy mischaracterizing me.

[hulklogan]

57. With Senator Obama in the White House, GLBT Americans will be invisible

or maybe if we're good and keep our mouths shut while embracing the people who want to kill us, we'll get a nice pat on the head. Or maybe mentioned in one clause of one sentence of one speech at one church.

I'll probably vote for Senator Obama too if he wins the nomination, but I hope he doesn't expect me to support his administration beyond that. Quid pro quo, Mr. Senator.

[mondo joe]

63. But ex-gay America will have a seat at the table. What a shit-fest. nt

[Bluebear]

64. You said it.

[MzShellG]

66. What is it that you expect Hillary or Edwards to do....

For the GLBT community that Obama wouldn't do? Honestly.

[AX10]

65. Obama talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.