Bill Clinton is taking on the corporate media AND the right wing propaganda machine at the same time

[mtnsnake]

and what does the Democratic Underground do? It turns it's back on him.

The Democratic Underground, who unanimously has always despised and blamed the corporate media, says next to nothing on behalf of Bill, who told CNN to its face how shameful the media is for not covering the real issues. While he is slamming the media on almost every stop, he is also pointing out the evils of the Right Wing propaganda machine. Bill has the guts to use the same words we do, minus the cussing.

Well, in case you haven't noticed, the media is ganging up on Bill Clinton because they are shitting their pants that someone of his stature has SHAMED them live on TV. The corporate media is out for vengeance on him and YOU don't seem to give a hoot. We've never had anyone of Clinton's magnitude take on the corporate media like he is doing now, and all of a sudden the corporate media is not our enemy anymore....Bill is.

Spin it any way you want, because most of you on this forum hate the Clintons, but when it comes to how you whine about the corporate media and then turn your backs on Bill for trying to do something about it, you're as two-faced as it gets.

[Scout]

1. thank you, I saw the Big Dog taking the media to task, and I loved it! n/t

[rodeodance]

5. So did I and commented about it--only to get Rudely dissed

[mtnsnake]

26. Kudos to you, rodeodance, for fighting the good fight against the corporate media

and for not turning your back on one of our best. :toast:

[rodeodance]

60. most posts downstream are not interested in your issue, Instead it is bashing

clinton. sad.

and i raise a glass to you also.
best,
rd

[mtnsnake]

73. thanks, rd

I'm not surprised at the Clinton bashing here on DU, I'm just disappointed that they can't stop for a second and realize what one of our Democrats has done to the corporate media, shamed them in public for not covering the issues. Big Dawg deserves the credit FROM THEM for that, if for nothing else, but they refuse to do so. They'd rather be two-faced about the media than ever pay someone their due.

Thanks again.

[neutron]

124. The Right Wing has Shrewdly

penetrated high visibility Left Wing blogs where they've been
beating up on the Clintons for months.

[mtnsnake]

126. Yes, they most certainly have

and we don't have to look too far to see what you'e talking about.

Well said.

[ShortnFiery]

128. Yes, the Corporate DLC thanks you - no other can simultaneously Race and Gender bait while PRETENDIN...

to "keep to the high road." :crazy:

Lee Atwater is rolling over in his grave exclaiming, "Damn! That's beautiful, I never thought we could do THAT!?!

The best example of shameless Gender baiting promotion, IMO, came from a thread which implied that "HRC is all women" and we all should vote for her in order to honor the memory of Susan B. Anthony. :wow: :grr: :puke: PRICELESS!

Yes, without a doubt, the behaviors of many Clintonian DLC operatives rates perfect 10 on a DU "smarminess Scale." Yes, I do believe that you'd play off of "any damn potential prejudices" in order to WIN. :thumbsdown: :crazy:

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Amen!

We should be supporting him in his attempt to expose the right-wing propaganda machine for what it is.

And you are right--they are just attacking him.

[ProSense]

3. Bill Clinton is lying and whining

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4207289&mesg_id=4207289">See

[mtnsnake]

11. He was not lying when he told the media to its face they are shameful

He did not lie about that. I heard him do it with my own ears numerous times in the last few days.

[Lerkfish]

15. and why did he call them shameful? do you recall?

because they WEREN"T villifying Obama ENOUGH.

go back to the clip and find out.

[dsc]

that is an abject lie

He shamed the media for not covering the voters questions at that rally.

[Lerkfish]

21. I am not lying.

Bill Clinton targets media coverage of Obama
Posted: 04:10 PM ET

Watch Bill Clinton's comments Monday night.

(CNN) – On the eve of the New Hampshire primary, former President Bill Clinton criticized the media for not pressing Barack Obama more fully on Iraq, and accused the Illinois senator of shifting his position to reflect changing attitudes on the war.

"It is wrong that Sen. Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time, not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war," Clinton said at a campaign stop in Hanover, New Hampshire.


and, since I know you're a good christian, I'll be expecting a prompt apology for calling me a liar.

[dsc]

81. that is a different video

the one on CNN, the one mentioned in the OP, was after a meeting with voters which was about issues. Incidently, even this is merely asking that the media cover issues. I happen to think Obama's Clinton's, and Edward's position on the war are worthy issues. The press only cares about Edward's and Hillary's.

[Lerkfish]

95. my mistake

I hadn't seen the recent on and thought the discussion was about the one I linked.

mea culpa.

see? I know how to apologize. where's YOUR apology?

[AlertLurker]

83. dsc is right. It's an abject lie.

I LISTENED to EXACTLY what he said.

I didn't read about it in the M$M...

He never said anything about not pressing Barack Obama more fully on Iraq, he vilified the press about not covering the issues in favour of race-baiting and stated that the losers are the South Carolinan voters.

The quote mentioned in your post is from JANUARY FRIGGIN' SIXTH!!! The "Hanover, New Hampshire" part should have clued you in a bit:

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2008/01/president-clinton-sees-post-iowa.html

Wake the heck up, Lerkfish. You can't trust the M$M to report ANYTHING honestly.

(edited for profanity)

[Lerkfish]

97. no, I was mistaken

and you can take your slander of me and store it somewhere personal.

[AlertLurker]

104. Just because you are mistaken does not make it less of a lie.

I never slandered you, however. I never called you a liar - I assumed you were quoting the M$M and THEY (as per their usual m.o) were doing the lying. 100% of us have been duped by these scumbags at one time, or another.

You DO seem to be a wee bit hostile when confronted by the facts, tho...

It's Saturday - take a break, on me:

:donut:

[Lerkfish]

105. what I posted was NOT a lie

what I posted was the truth, I was mistaken only in thinking the OP was referring to the same incident I was referring to.

and what is this crap: "ABJECT LIE" AND "does not make it less of a lie" equals NOT calling me a liar?

piss up a rope., okeydoke?

YOU DID CALL ME A LIAR, ok?

and YOU KNOW FULL WELL I directly quoting BECAUSE I INCLUDED A LINK, right?

[AlertLurker]

108. Sure, you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to be nice.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liar

liar

Main Entry: li·ar
Pronunciation: \ˈlī(-ə)r\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lēogere, from lēogan to lie — more at lie
Date: before 12th century

: a person who tells lies


You originally posted:

"because they WEREN"T villifying Obama ENOUGH.

go back to the clip and find out.

That's a lie. It did not happen on CNN's Clinton clip, it happened three weeks ago in NH.


In your last post, you stated:

"YOU KNOW FULL WELL I directly quoting BECAUSE I INCLUDED A LINK"

Actually, THAT's a lie, too. You may have pulled a quote out of your ass, but you failed to include a link.


Telling lies makes you a LIAR, according to Webster. Congratulations. Live with it, and just move on, ok?

If being personally insulting after being called out after telling lies makes one an insulting liar, congratulations again.

You sir, are an insulting liar.


Feel better now?

:banghead:

[mtnsnake]

112. That's not fair

I've had my share of disagreements with Lerkfish, but I don't ever recall him being a liar, so I don't think it's fair for you to call him one. He already admitted he made a mistake as to the instance he though I was referring to in the OP, so how about we just let it go as that. No one likes being accused of being a liar, especially when the accusation is not true. This was just a mistake and he said so.

Peace

[Lerkfish]

118. well, he's right about only one thing: I forgot to post the link: here it is:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/08/bill-clinton-targets-media-coverage-of-obama/

I thought I HAD posted it because I directly copied and pasted it. Turns out I did forget to copy and paste the link.

however, he is wrong that I was lying. I WAS mistaken, I thought that was what the OP was about.


and to add: thanks mtnsnake. I may have done somethings wrong in my life, but I don't lie. I may be mistaken, as I was here, but I take my own integrity very seriously.

[AlertLurker]

120. Originally, I was referring to the M$M quote as the lie:

I thought I'd made it somewhat obvious with:

"Wake the heck up, Lerkfish. You can't trust the M$M to report ANYTHING honestly."

Then LF got accusatory and insulting.

I attempted to clarify what I was referring to, saying that I never called him a liar and was rteferrng to the quote. I even tried unsuccessfully to defuse it with a bit of humour:

"You DO seem to be a wee bit hostile when confronted by the facts, tho...

It's Saturday - take a break, on me:"

:donut:

Then he got nasty and insulted me further, so I just got pissy and literal.

I don't think that I've been unfair, I just refuse to be ANYONE'S punching bag. If someone's not going to accept an olive branch in the proper spirit, I'm just going to have to beat him over the head with it.

[Lerkfish]

121. olive branch? LOL!

you have a funny way of offering an olive branch.

done with you.

[Lerkfish]

119. here's the link

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/08/bill-clinton-targets-media-coverage-of-obama/

beyond that, you don't deserve any response.

[rodeodance]

62. oh, the 'SHAMEFUL' from big dawg to the media was SWEET SWEET.

[Rock_Garden]

4. You're right on target with this one, Snake.

[robbedvoter]

6. Yup. Some side with the media - cuz, heh, dude, it's the Clintons! Ponies, ya know?

I just answered a post saying that "media's mental illness is deserved by Clinton because of...wait for it...the BJ!
Oh, Mighty Clenis!

[Lerkfish]

7. really? seems more like he's attacking Obama, but hey, what do I know?

your perceptions do not coincide with mine.

[rodeodance]

10. its true, he took on big media this week and got mocked by many on du threads and there

were so so many threads doing the mocking and dissing.

[Lerkfish]

12. and why exactly did he take on the media?

what was the reason? Because of what they do, or as an opportunity to attack Obama?

answer honestly.

[mtnsnake]

13. He wasn't attacking Obama then. He attacked the media and the Right Wing directly.

and here on the Democratic Underground he gets zero credit for doing something we've all wished would happen. He took on the media all by himself.

[Lerkfish]

19. whom is Bill really attacking here? media or Obama?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/08/bill-clinton-targets-media-coverage-of-obama/

Bill Clinton targets media coverage of Obama
Posted: 04:10 PM ET

Watch Bill Clinton's comments Monday night.

(CNN) – On the eve of the New Hampshire primary, former President Bill Clinton criticized the media for not pressing Barack Obama more fully on Iraq, and accused the Illinois senator of shifting his position to reflect changing attitudes on the war.

"It is wrong that Sen. Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time, not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war," Clinton said at a campaign stop in Hanover, New Hampshire.

[robbedvoter]

14. He told the media they prefer to cover race issues instead of real issues and

are hurting voters in the process. Media attacked. And so did DU. Knee jerk reflex.

[Lerkfish]

25. link?

[mtnsnake]

31. Lerkfish, let me ask you this: Are you glad Bill shamed the media or not?

Regardless of what YOU think his motives were, are you glad he shamed the media?

[Lerkfish]

35. nice sidestep

no, you FIRST answer my question: WHY did he shame the media?

[mtnsnake]

38. Not a sidestep at all. Read the OP.

[Lerkfish]

41. sidestep again.

simply answer the question> I've provided a link to the actual attack on the media along with WHY.

[mtnsnake]

54. He shamed them because he thinks they're shameful. Otherwise he wouldn't have told them that.

I answered your question. My answer probably won't be acceptable to you and if it isn't, then I hope we can just agree to diagree and leave it at that.

[rodeodance]

8. REC.

[IndianaGreen]

9. Bill Clinton is the father of media concentration

He is the one that signed that odious telecom act into law which led to the mess we currently have.

[mtnsnake]

16. Changing the subject does NOT change the fact he is taking on the corporate media to their faces

[robbedvoter]

24. The only one doing so, BTW!

[Armstead]

27. That is not changing the subject -- It IS the subject

Bill Clinton has had many opportunities to both speak out and actually do something about media consolidation and the abuses of the public interest that result.

But he ignored the issue. The only time he speaks out is when he and his wife are directly attacked. The rest of the time he is happy to sit on the sidelines.

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. Same thing I thought.

That's not changing the subject -- IT IS the subject. :think:

But he ignored the issue. The only times he speaks out is when he and his wife are directly attacked. The rest of the time he is happy to sit on the sidelines.

Why is that so difficult for some too see? :shrug:

[Lerkfish]

107. blind partisanship

they want their candidate to win so badly they're willing to create fantasies within their own minds.

[robbedvoter]

20. because a GOP congress voted for it? Funny how he's responsible for all the

bad bills the GOP congress voted on, and NEVER credited with the good ones he CHAMPIONED (i.e economic stimulus)
Or Executive orders establishing national parks - he was raked over the coals by JFK lover Daniel Schorr on NPR!

[still_one]

69. are you implying that he vetoed the telcom act, and Congress over-rode his veto? /nt

[Meshuga]

52. Amen, and it is funny that he is turning on his baby now

Whatever it takes to go back to the White House is fair game...

[bluedog]

17. I was PO'ed by the remark from Cafferty

Totally out of line........


Yesterday...this was thrown in for ?humor? by Jack........



Here's the question: Should a former president be acting as a political attack dog on behalf his wife?

Go to CNN.com/caffertyfile. You can post a comment on my new blog.

I saw a funny bumper sticker the other day.

It said,******** "Vote for Monica Lewinsky's boyfriend's wife for president."************

BLITZER: Tough.

All right, see you in a few moments, Jack. Thank you.

[Maribelle]

34. The big dog is a guard dog. Always has been. Always will be. Try attacking his property

and see what happens.

[Cameron27]

18. K&R

(If you haven't watched Jon Stewart's take on this, go to Comedy Central and watch the clip)

[Armstead]

22. Where was Bill when it mattered?

Sure he's great at shooting back at the media when they go after him.

Why isn't he going after thenm for shutting out Edwards, Kucinich, Biden, etc. from any consideration as serious candidates earlier on?

Why isn't he going after them for their blackout of news coverage of ongoing media consolidation,the recent FCC gift to Big Media, as well as the media's earlier cheerleading for Bush and the Iraq Invasion?

And, fundamentally, where was Bill's advocacy and his veto pen when the awful Telecommunications reform Act of 1996 was being pushed through?

[Lerkfish]

28. Where was Bill during torture, lying about WMDs, shock and awe....

oh, that's right, he was drinking on Pappy Bush's yacht.

[Skwmom]

23. Bill Clinton uses the media to get out his race-baiting message.

[Armstead]

32. "I did not feed mud to that media. That's a lie."

[babylonsister]

29. Fuck Bill. He's damaging our party, and you want me to feel sympathy?

:eyes: I want him to sit down and shut up, as do a lot of people, but he's incapable of that. And his wife can't win without him. So who would you be voting for? Beats me.

[mtnsnake]

37. I'm just saying that because it's Bill, no one HERE seems to mind the evil media all of a sudden

I don't expect sympathy for him, not in the least because this is DU the place that hates the Clintons, but I would expect some back-up for one of our own people finally slamming the media to their faces live on TV. All of a sudden CNN is prized more highly now? :shrug:

[Armstead]

43. No it's Bill's selective outrage that pisses me off

[mtnsnake]

49. Of course

it's selective, and your point is well taken, but it's simply mind boggling that someone is finally saying the words to the media that we've always wished we'd hear, and because it's Bill...and because he's despised in general here...it doesn't count.

Joe Biden wasn't my top choice of a candidate, but when he said the things he did on TV about Rudy Gullinie, he was my hero for saying it. Bill just LEVELED the media, saying the same things WE'VE always said about them, and all of a sudden it doesn't matter that someone...ANYONE...said it?

[Armstead]

56. I'd be rah-rahing Bills shots at the media if....

He'd been supporting the advocates of media reform all along. If he'd been out there challenging the media message machine.

He could have done wonders for the fight against media consolidation and the abusive behavior of Big Media, if he'd spoken up all along.

Instead he was both silent and complicit when it mattered.

That long silence is why I have to discount his comments now.

Sorry.

[babylonsister]

47. I'm not even watching CNN, so your point is lost on me. I want

the Clintons to fight fair, but they're incapable of it. And that makes me nauseous.

[still_one]

50. He helped provide for the mass media merges and destruction of the fairness doctrine

what comes around goes around

[robbedvoter]

113. All is fair against the Clenis!

[indimuse]

116. how nasty!

You Obama fans are jealous of Big Dogs popularity and charm...cuzzzz... Michelle does not come close even in Harlem (saw the video!!) when shes trying to gain votes through her race baiting rhetorical..ass! Did you know she may be called to testify in the Rezko case...???

[cali]

30. People like Bob Herbert, Michael Crowley and many

other LIBERAL commentators are calling out Bill. So are Leahy and Clyburn.

Are they all part of the evil right wing? Of course not, and that kind of dents your entire argument.

[JTFrog]

33. JUST LEAVE BILL ALONE!!!!

JUST LEAVE BILL ALONE!!!!


Oh and as mentioned above, Bill laid the foundation for the "corporate media".

And what's this???? Prominent democrats who told him to STOP HIS ATTACKS ON OBAMA?!?!?

Key Dems Kennedy, Emanuel Tell Bill Clinton To Stop Obama Attacks

http://www.newsweek.com/id/96385

Talk about spin spin spin. JFC.

[Inuca]

36. "the corporate media AND the right wing propaganda machine "

BOTH? At the SAME time? Really? He must be SO tired!

Or maybe not. After at least 7 years of slumber with the enemy, he should be quite rested.

[mtnsnake]

40. That's right. Apparently you haven't heard him speak lately. nt

[Lerkfish]

42. oh, EVERYONE is hearing him speak lately

he's making sure of that because of his ability to GET PRESS.

[rodeodance]

67. you may be hearing but are you COMPREHENDING his message when he takes on the media?

[robbedvoter]

109. But the press is twisting his words. I saw the video of this and the Daily News

acrimonious spin.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. Clinton's taking on anyone who stands in his way

If that included a four year-old child, he'd destroy the kid as well.

It's what he does.

[mtnsnake]

44. Just another DU'er who doesn't give a rats ass that Bill is taking on the corporate media

all on his own, shaming the shit out of them on TV to the extent that they're out for vengeance like they've never been before.

[Lerkfish]

51. again, answer the question; WHY is he taking on the media?

out of some altruistic concern for the population? or the advancement of his wife's candidacy or to attack her opponent?

if, as you seem to suggest, its altruism, then WHERE THE HELL HAS HE BEEN for the last 8 years?

[mtnsnake]

55. I answered your question upthread.

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. Get over yourself

Your hero worship is embarrassing at best.

[robbedvoter]

45. MSM is suddenly popular on DU as they coddle one candidate. Only Rush still

remains to be quited here in support of Obama (he is supporting him!)
Coverage:

Obama: 47% positive, 16% negative.
Clinton: 27% positive, 38% negative.
McCain: 12% positive, 48% negative
Giuliani: 28% positive, 37% negative
JEDNE

Net numbers

Obama +31
Giuliani -9
Clinton -11
McCain -36

[still_one]

46. he helped create it with the telecommunication act of the 90's which he signed

and supported

He also signed the welfare reform act, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act, which effectively repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, and his support of deregulation with his good budy ken lay

please tell us bill how you "feel our pain"

[mtnsnake]

57. Someone else already beat you to it upthread, but thanks for changing the subject

The subject here is that he crucified the fucking corporate media to their silly faces and he took them on all on his own. Turn your back on him for anything else you don't like about his past, but I don't understand how any Democrat can turn their back on him for this.

[still_one]

68. "crucifying" him for enabling the very thing that he is speaking against

ironic isn't it?

appreciate the note about the upthread though, I obviously didn't catch it, or was typing too slow

[JTFrog]

48. KEY DEMS TELL BILL CLINTON TO STOP OBAMA ATTACKS

http://www.newsweek.com/id/96385

Prominent Democrats are upset with the aggressive role that Bill Clinton is playing in the 2008 campaign, a role they believe is inappropriate for a former president and the titular head of the Democratic Party. In recent weeks, Sen. Edward Kennedy and Rep. Rahm Emanuel, both currently neutral in the Democratic contest, have told their old friend heatedly on the phone that he needs to change his tone and stop attacking Sen. Barack Obama, according to two sources familiar with the conversations who asked for anonymity because of their sensitive nature. Clinton, Kennedy and Emanuel all declined to comment.

[Bonobo]

53. Too bad he's no running for office. Oh, yeah. He is. nt

[pdxmom]

58. He's not taking on the media. He's using the media, as he's always

done and he is doing it beautifully once again.

[mtnsnake]

63. What world do you live in?

He's not taking on the media

That's the most bizarre statement on this thread.

[pdxmom]

71. Saying "shame on you" isn't taking on the media. That was getting

in the soundbite heard around the world. He got his point out where he wanted it. And the next day, Hillary was on all three morning shows. The Clinton's are excellent at using the media. They don't like them, but they know how to manipulate them. It's one of their greatest strengths.

[mtnsnake]

75. Good gawd as if that's all he said. I suppose it was his dummy who blasted them for not covering

the real issues this country is facing and not Bill who said all those OTHER things to their faces BESIDES the shame thing.

[Kahuna]

61. Please! Bill was playing another one of his games. I'm not

buying it.

[mtnsnake]

65. Are you saying he didn't take on the media??

Gimme a break, Kahuna.

[Kahuna]

85. Bill Clinton is trying to do the typical repuke tactic of, LOOK OVER THERE!..

Don't look at what I'm doing. You may be gullible enough to fall for it but I don't believe that most people who viewed that pathetic display fell for it. 'Obama is out to get me.' I didn't think even you would fall for that one. :eyes:

[The_Casual_Observer]

66. The "progressives" on DU would rather vote to lose.

That way it's all about a stolen election and being done in by the system. Nitwit "progressive" Clinton bashers aren't ever going to be happy with anybody who'll ever actually get elected. They even bash Dennis Kucinich for having been pro-life at one time.

[still_one]

77. Some may be Clinton bashers, but do you think it might be their policies and votes?

Under Bill Clinton there was the welfare reform act, the deregulation of banking, energy, and telecommuication industries, and the trade agreements which facilitated the off-shoring of U.S. jobs

Hillary voted for the IWR, the Patriot Act, and the Kyle Lieberman Amendment

To me just those issues represent very bad judgement

I don't want anymore bush's or Clintons in the White House

[The_Casual_Observer]

79. Didn't you hear? Both parties are the same.

You think those things weren't going to happen if somebody else was President?

[still_one]

80. Yes, there are some issues that differentiate both parties, but with lobbyists

and career politicians the issues that differentiate them, become more obscure

[Lerkfish]

96. I though Clinton was the most progressive candidate

:shrug:

[rodeodance]

70. Craig Crawford on MSNBC: media has mental illness about the Clintons.

x-posted--as it belongs here.

.........


Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Craig Crawford on MSNBC: media has mental illness about the Clintons.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4208565#4208565
4208565, Craig Crawford on MSNBC: media has mental illness about the Clintons.
Posted by chimpymustgo on Sat Jan-26-08 08:05 AM

They always believe the worse - would believe the town drunk if he said Clinton had poisoned the water in Obama districts. Says the media responsible for the injection of race - not Clinton. I think he's right.

[Bread and Circus]

72. Bill Clinton is no victim and no saint. If you actually read up on

him and his wife you'd know better.

[mtnsnake]

87. I've seen you in numerous threads telling posters to read up on the issues

as if you're God's gift to political wisdom. Fact is, this post is about what Bill did to the press this week. If you don't think that was him who told the media to their faces that they should be ashamed of themselves for not covering the REAL issues this country faces, then prove me wrong on THAT before you go preaching your string cheese rhetoric about reading up on the issues. You need to learn to STICK to the issue at hand before preaching that anyone should read up on things as if they're ignorant.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[southern_dem]

74. No Bill

is playing the media like a fiddle. He is a master and does a great job of it. Nothing wrong with that, I think it would be an asset in November.

[Zodiak]

76. "Whine", "two-faced"?

These are terms that spinners use, not those that wish to engage in honest discussion.

A message board is tone-deaf, so the term "whine" is not appropriate because you cannot determine a person's tone from text. It is only a term used to infantilize your opponents.

And what exactly is "two-faced" about consistenty not liking the Clinton's? (notice I didn't use "hate", which is another charged word that has no place in an honest discussion).

The Clintons (since now they apparently are both running) have created this media with the stroke of a pen, so I have a hard time believing that they are "taking them on". They're taking alright....taking donations from the media conglomerates...remember Murdoch? They are too self-serving, too corporate, too DLC for many DUers...that is why we do not like them. This has nothing at all to do with whining, hatred, or duplicity.

That's your "spin" on it.

So try again, but this time try without the insulting premises.

[mtnsnake]

78. It's as two-faced as it gets

Sorry if that bothers you, but it's fact. On one hand we've always complained about the corporate media and how evil they are. On the other hand, someone...Bill Clinton...says the words we've always wanted to hear, and all of a sudden the media is fine and Bill is the enemy. That might not be two-faced in your view, my friend, but in mine it reeks of it.

(on edit: changed "world" to "view". sorry about that :))

[Zodiak]

91. Find someone here who says the media is fine

Then I will begin to entertain your premise. (actually, you will have to find more than that since you said "many")

I will agree that many of us think that Bill is the enemy....Hillary as well. We have been debating that issue here for years ad nauseum.

No one here thinks the media is fine. You are spinning again.

[mtnsnake]

94. That's my point, Zodiak. No one here DOES think the media is fine

Yet, when a Democrat..ANY Democrat..shames the media and tells them the same things we at DU always say about them, the same people turn their backs and choose to bash him instead, only because it's Bill Clinton, rather than back him up for confronting the media as he did this week.

[Zodiak]

99. Well, I'm not backing him up.

Because he created that media, his wife accepts donations from them, and he has been completely silent about this issue for years and years until of course, his own personal interest is hindered by the media.

We do not trust him, any more....we just don't.

That is not being two-faced. It is not trusting someone who has shown absolutely no reason to be trusted.

It is difficult to believe that someone who created an entity and has benefitted from the largesse of that entity to suddenly be against said entity. He is lying in the bed he made, and a lot of us feel it is just deservation, not a clarion call to back him up.

The same can be said about NAFTA, globalization, the Iraq War.

If the Clintons are against the big media ignoring the issues, then let them do what so many candidates have done in the past....publically promise to break big media up. THAT is addressing the issue.

[mtnsnake]

102. You explained your reasons nice enough

Don't back him up. No one is forcing you to, and we can agree to disagree.

[Zodiak]

103. That we can

I really wish I didn't fall out of love with the Clintons, but I'm too populist, too idealist to stick with them. And I freely admit that I adhere to ideology far tighter than I do party.

[sniffa]

82. Jeez, more whining from the Clintons.

They're such spineless crybabies.

[mtnsnake]

84. Only you could interpret someone taking on the entire media as being "spineless"

but you just can't resist, can you.

[Kahuna]

86. Only you would interpret Clinton trying to move the goal post as taking

on the entire media. I mean really. This is the silliest thing I've read in a long time.

[mtnsnake]

89. Of course it's silly to you.

Am I supposed to be shocked or something? lol

[Kahuna]

90. 'Obama is out to get me, and you guys won't report it..' Give me a

fuggin' break. That's taking on the media?? In your universe dude.Not mine.

[mtnsnake]

92. Even the Clinton naysayers won't agree with you that he said anything of the sort

when what he really told them was that they should be ashamed of themselves for not covering the real issues this country is facing.

Nice try, albeit a feeble one.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

88. Only you could defend the Clintons' pathetic whining.

But you couldn't resist, could you?

[robbedvoter]

93. Nope. other people remember the big picture too. Even you will . Soon.

[vssmith]

98. Where was he when Kerry was getting swiftboated?

[Kahuna]

101. Doing nothing so that Kerry could lose. That way Hillary could run in '08.

I thought everybody knew that. :hi:

[Lerkfish]

106. brilliant!

and likely accurate.

[robbedvoter]

110. Where was Kerry? And where is my 2004 vote?

[mtnsnake]

111. Kerry couldn't even stick up for himself, so Bill gets blamed for not being his babysitter

Figure that. What a bizarro world some of these people live in.

[robbedvoter]

115. Yup. "they'll say we are crybabies" was more important to Kerry than my vote

But somehow, it's the Clenis's fault he conceded.

[indimuse]

114. THanks for the post mtnsnake!

It's a shame..I'm hearing on some very unfair Bill and Hill attacks from fav talk radio as well..Ed Shultz has been ruthless and Randi has made me quite mad lately! It's very sad to see this happen to President Bill Clinton ...It's not like the RW haven't ripped him and Hillary daily for years.
Bill has to take the opportunity when given to keep it honest and focused on what does matter ...this primary election thus far has been a MSM free for all!

[mtnsnake]

117. haha, my pleasure!

:hi:

[SecularNATION]

122. Fuck Bill Clinton

Bill Clinton is only going after those who would keep him and his wife out of the White House. One of the main reasons we HAVE the concentrated corporate media we do, is Bill Clinton. He helped consolidate it by signing the telecommunications bill.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnsnake]

129. Good question

How have the left wing blogs become so wide open for Trolls?

As long as the extremists from the left have the same motives as the extremists from the right, in causing the demise of the Clintons, the trolls seem to be tolerated with half open arms. That's the only reason I can think of, because it's as obvious as the day is long that the left wing blogs are infiltrated.

[ShortnFiery]

123. Bill Clinton is now behaving like a shameless horse's ass. Time to drag your bloated "big dawg"

off of the National Stage before he shames both "our party" and "our nation" irrevocably. :thumbsdown:

"Woof Woof, Vote for my wife! Woof! Woof! The press is unfair! Woof! Obama stole my shoe!"

Yeah, Big Dog, take your medication and then sit your shameless ass down - The American People have grown tired of your OLD TRICKS. :thumbsdown:

[mtnsnake]

130. You sound exactly like a rightwing Republican with the hatred you always spew toward our Dems

I don't know of ANY Democrat who lives and breathes as much hatred towards ANY Democrat as you do.

[annabanana]

127. Edwards supporter here agreeing with you 100%!. . .n/t

[mtnsnake]

131. thanks, annabanana

I think most Democrats do. Thank goodness DU is not a real reflection of how most Democrats feel. lol

[AJH032]

132. yep

but don't expect to find much love here for pointing out the truth. As is the case with (most) people, (most) DUers will be hypocritical when it serves their purposes to do so, as can easily be seen here.

[B Calm]

134. Bill Clinton helped to create the corporate media...

[Lerkfish]

135. deregulating FCC rules on ownership has created the situation we now have

so, yeah, I think you make a good point.

[killbotfactory]

136. What a hero

What treasures should we pile at his feet for his brave and selfless sacrifice?

[PresidentObama]

137. Hypocrisy doesn't bother some DUers. It's about blooding the opponent, Democrat or not.

For example, Obama called out Edwards on some outside group 527 he had no part in and had no control over. The DUers here from the Obama camp jumped all over Edwards, and posed fake outrage and blasted Senator Edwards.

But when the hypocrisy came out that Obama was benefiting from outside groups, his campaign let out a focus group tested press release on it, Obama was silent, and the Obama supporters at DU who bashed Edwards for this were either quiet about it or turned it back around on Edwards avoiding the hypocrisy.

It's amazing how little DUer's care anymore about the truth.

It's who can lie, distort, and attack other Democrats the most.

And it's disgusting to watch.

Especially against Bill Clinton, who saved the Democratic Party in 1992.

And saved the country from 1993 through 2000.

[HughMoran]

138. Agreed

DU has turned into a right-wing hate-fest recently. It's despicable.