You know what? We're really NOT "one America"

[Bake]

I just saw Barack Obama's ad, from his Dem convention speech (I think), saying, "We're one America..."

But we really are divided. It's nice to wish we weren't, but we are. It's nice to have a vision of one America, but that's not the reality.

It's just not. John Edwards is right. There are (at least) TWO Americas. That's what we've got to deal with. I don't think Barack can bridge that gap by wishing it didn't exist.

Bake

[gateley]

1. My take is the wealthy THINK there's One America, the rest of us know that isn't true. nt

[jackson_dem]

2. Who do you think gave Barack $100 million?

[cynthia]

14. Today I got an expensive glossy Obama "magazine" in the mail

I live in a Super Tuesday state, and got a flyer for Hillary and this huge "magazine" thing with lots of pretty pictures, not much substance. All I could think was, How much money is this guy spending, and where is it coming from?

[mathewsleep]

3. obama was referring to

democrats and republicans. not rich and poor. he's meaning is that both the parties want the best for america and that we shouldn't hate the other side for having different ideas, no matter how idiotic.

edwards means rich vs poor. which i agree with him on. the rich people do live in a different america. i wish barack would mention this. but i don't want him to be thought of as stealing edward's thunder.

[Two Americas]

10. that is the difference right there

Do we see the divide in the country being about wealth and power?

Or do we see it as being about "values" and "positions" on isolated issues?

Either of the two creates a context within which we view all of politics.

Historically politics has always been about wealth and power. The right wing propaganda machine has shifted the very definition of politics away from that - "don't look at who has the wealth and power and how they are getting it!" - to a gaggle of issues they created out of thin air - abortion, gays, guns, and other inflammatory and emotionally charged and divisive issues.

I believe that within the context of politics that is about wealth and power - economic injustice and anti-democratic structures and actions - all of the hot button cultural issues will fade and that the progressive efforts in those areas will easily succeed.

In the absence of that proper political context, we are wrestling with content and the context is hidden. The people who control the Republican party, and whose interests the party works so hard and so effectively to protect and advance, don't care about the cultural war hot button issues. They are just using them to distract and divert the people so as to divide and conquer them.

[zanne]

4. Obama believes that WE CAN BECOME one America.

He knows we're far from that point, but we can get there if we're not so afraid to work for it. If we want to make that happen, we have to BELIEVE it can happen. That's what he's talking about. People work harder for things they believe in.

[jackson_dem]

6. MichiganVote is right. That has never happened. More false hope from Obama

[Bake]

8. Like I said, it's a nice VISION

Just like MLK's dream, which has YET to be realized. We've got a long way to go on both counts.

Bake

[redqueen]

13. MLK III : "My father was not driven by an illusory vision of a perfect society."

"He was driven by the certain knowledge that when people of good faith and strong principles commit to making things better, we can change hearts, we can change minds, and we can change lives."

[zanne]

22. AMEN, redqueen.! nt

[redqueen]

23. Actually I was thinking of Obama's "vision" as the "perfect society"...

we're nowhere NEAR uniting this country... we can't even unite this fucking party.

[zanne]

25. He's no Utopian...

He's realistic enough to know that we can't have a perfect society. But he's courageous and hopeful enough to know that we can be a much better country than we are right now, with less alienation.

[redqueen]

26. Yes, we can... but not by pretending to have much in common with repukes.

The entire party is corrupt... if their hands aren't dirty, the've enabled the crimes of others in their party.

I can't get into his "one america" thing... I just can't. I know he says that the repuke electorate doesn't see it that way... but I don't think that's the case...

I think they don't care... they hate dems, they had progressive values... there is no way to reach middle ground, after decades of us moving to their side... it's long past time we stopped trying to woo them to our side, and stood up for our own principles... not that I'm saying he's not... it's just...

*sigh*

I don't know... I'm tired and rambling and not thinking straight... sorry.

:(

[ClericJohnPreston]

28. "courageous"

Where do you get that from...."courageous"? What has Obama done that is in any way, "courageous"? JFK enlisted in a War he could have easily avoided with his wealth, then fought bravely, and was a true War Hero.

As much as I don't like him now, even Kerry had courage.

You just start singing these platitudes without justification.

Don't you see Obama is a blank slate, to which you project context and meaning on his glittering generalities?

It's only when posts like yours are written, that we can easily witness the emptiness of Obama's "vision". It has to be filled with the hopes and dreams of his supporters, because it is an empty promise.

[Maven]

16. Why would we WANT to be "one America?"

Different people believe different things, that's why political parties EXIST. To represent different factions and interests. There are coalitions of diverse groups within each party but there are core principles each party embodies that the other party doesn't. It will ALWAYS be that way, as long as there are issues in controversy. The idea of "one America" is a hollow, feel-good idea sold to people who don't follow politics closely. It's a disingenuous ploy to give a positive glow to Obama's candidacy while actually saying nothing that matters to those paying attention.

"...we have to BELIEVE it can happen"

Is he a candidate for president or the frigging tooth fairy?

[Two Americas]

18. not defined

No one (very few) define what they mean by "America." No slam on anyone in particular. A longing for unity, or for one America is understandable, but that does not examine who is preventing that and why and how. What is "America?" The most successful and prosperous among us? The trend setters, the winners, the most dominant, while those left behind are presumed to be defective or unqualified in some way?

It is as though we told a group of kids who were being plagued by a bully among them "come now children let's get along." That is the best thing for the bully because it equates his predations with the efforts of the others to protect and defend themselves and allows him to continue terrorizing the rest of the group. Sure the kids want peace, they want unity, they want an end to the strife and uproar. But they want an end to the strife being caused by the bully. Asking them to reach out to the bully for the sake of peace is to ask them to render themselves vulnerable and defenseless.

When people do not talk about or acknowledge the bullies among us, yet call for unity and hope and peace, I am suspicious. That serves the bullies, sooner or later and ultimately and with certainty. The bullies love unity, just so long as the people are not united against them.

[AdHocSolver]

39. Let Obama sell that vision to the Walton family. n/t

[MichiganVote]

5. Never has been.

[FrenchieCat]

7. That's the hope....that we can be one America.......

and that is what we should work toward. Or do you want to continue to have a divided America? Would that work better for you? :shrug:

[Bake]

9. I'm dealing with reality.

As long as there's Hate Radio, there will be two Americas. As long as "liberal" is a dirty word, there will be two Americas. Until MLK's Dream is realized, there will be two Americas.

Wake up. It's all about money, power, and human nature. Jesus said, "The poor will be with you always." We have to appeal to Americans' better angels, their better nature, the America that we all hope like hell really exists, where people don't leave their fellow citizens to die in the flood waters of New Orleans, in the deserts of Iraq, and in the ghettos of every major city. I'd like to believe in that vision. But we're a long way from that. Edwards is the ONLY candidate seriously addressing that issue.

Bake

[FrenchieCat]

19. Edwards really hasn't done as much as you say.......

other than say stuff.

Like now, I think he needs more support, so he's for single payer health...although that's not what he offered as part of his plan.

Edwards has been running for President forever. I hope that if he doesn't win, he hangs it up this time.

[redqueen]

21. I hope that you don't support Gore as a candidate. (nt)

[zanne]

24. We've let dirty politics make us cynical.

In a way, Bush and his cronies have won because they've taken our hope. We have to have the courage to regain it and own it again.

[ClericJohnPreston]

29. Frenchie

and the Straw Man.

BFF :rofl:

[AdHocSolver]

41. Tell Obama to sell that vision to the folks who live in gated communities. n/t

[redqueen]

11. Thank you!

*sigh*

[jasmine621]

12. OK, so who is lying?

I know, Hillary is lying about this.

[Bake]

17. You can judge for yourself

But anyone telling us there is only one America at this moment is either lying or sadly deluded. All you have to do is look around. The conservatives and the neocons want us (liberals/progressives) either exterminated or relegated to the dustbin of history. We have to fight fire with fire. This is not the time to "wish" there was one America, this is the time to fight for our country.

I think Edwards, for one, is telling the truth. I'll leave the judgment of who's lying (or, to be kind, mistaken) to others.

Bake

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. We are so severely fractured, it's not even funny. And the Repubs

would love for us to take the submissive role and forgive them without waiting around for them to admit how wrong they were in following divisive policies, and for publicly expressing divisive opinions, which they still hold.

[mondo joe]

20. He's naive. Watch how quickly he slips when challenged into standard political

bickering. Nothing wrong with playing politics and playing hard - but he ought to know who he is.

[Bluerthanblue]

27. so, if there is no hope of "one america" why vote at all? Why prolong

this farce?

Why not simply nuke ourselves????

I'm not playing around, I'm completely serious.

If we are a nation divided against ourself, and there is NO way to fix this- no reason to even try, then I'm out.

I've had enough self-destructive living already. I'm done.


~

[ClericJohnPreston]

30. So

Believe what the first snake oil salesman is selling. They always need a complicit mark.

[Bluerthanblue]

33. they are all snake oil salesmen if

what the OP says is true.

it's all just a bullshit contest.

promises- promises- promises.

Clinton taunts Obama for not having her "progressive" stance- That is because he isn't offering quite the "pie in the sky" campaign crap that she is- but it is all just talk and empty promises.

A GOOD politican, a GOOD leader, may not make the dramatic changes that people on either side of the isle wants, but a GOOD leader, narrows the gap between the two extreems. ( IMO- 50yrs of living on this earth)

~

[AdHocSolver]

42. Edwards' message is FDR's message: "you were given a raw deal -- now, create a NEW deal! n/t

[ClericJohnPreston]

31. Obama's

whole campaign is based on the Country standard, "wishin and hopin".

It is a like a mirage, non-existent! All form and platitudes, no substance. That is why his empty-headed minion are always invoking "words" with no substance, repeating sloganeering, as if it were substantive.

As pointed out in another thread, that is why Obamatons cannot tell you what Obama is for, without a LINK. There is nothing to grab onto. This is what frustrates those of us a little more demanding of a candidate than accepting a canned message.

It is all empty rhetoric; the blander and more generic the better. Like a blank screen, it allows his followers to project what they want to see. Why do you think he uses rhetoric like dream and wish?

Yeah....keep wishin and hopin.

[Nedsdag]

36. So, what are your solutions?

Keep the divisions? Continue to keep apart?

This web site has become a depressing place to come to.

[Bluerthanblue]

38. your last line speaks

to me.

I need to step away.


peace~

[Bluerthanblue]

37. "Empty retoric" or meaningless promises-

which one is better?

Hillary wouldn't deliver on her promises.

Demand all you want from your candidate. And those with little conscience, or those so hell-bent on getting elected will feed you just what you want to hear.

Maybe you just like being outraged, or disapointed- I don't.

I don't want empty promises- or prognosises of a cure, when it is terminal.

Obama encourages the HOPE in people. The idea that maybe we don't have to think in such polorized ways- "us" vs. "them"-

Hillary would be 4yrs of * type discord and division, with the republicans scheming and working to get their people back in the house.

And we, the plebes, the average jane/joe, would be dragged through the crap yet again-

The only candidate to speak about bridging the gap between "them" and "us" is Obama.

It may not seem like much to you- or fit your desires, but Hillary's agressive, antagonistic determined attutide will only deepen the divide, and ultimately contribute to our complete implosion.

~

[Rydz777]

32. There are more than two Americas, and the next President is

going to find out just how many there are.

[stravu9]

34. Correct!

WE Need John!

[FrenchieCat]

35. Call Edwards and let him know right away.....

Cause he agrees with Barack!

[CK_John]

40. We are actual 50 little americas. n/t