McClurkin

[LoZoccolo]

[Occam Bandage]

1. Reagan.

[Colobo]

2. Rezko.

[CTLawGuy]

20. Rezko

the name makes me think of Rocksteady or Bebop from the Ninja Turtles cartoon. I dunno why.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Rezko.

[Critters2]

4. DOMA nt

[IndianaJones]

5. oohhh...a gay community marginalizing thread! nt.

[tammywammy]

8. Really?

I thought it was a make fun of DU and candidates at the same time thread. :shrug:

[IndianaJones]

9. McClurkin is only funny to Obama supporters. nt.

[Occam Bandage]

10. Thank you for your concern.

[IndianaJones]

11. thank you for your lack. nt.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Mine is genuine.

[IndianaJones]

16. it is evident your lack of concern is genuine. I haven't accused you of actually caring. nt.

[Occam Bandage]

17. Echo!

[tammywammy]

12. Did you see that the OP has started multiple threads like this?

[IndianaJones]

14. So its spam? nt.

[tammywammy]

18. Sigh

No, you're being purposely obtuse, especially since you also posted in one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4179200

See also:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4179227
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4179211

[jkshaw]

22. It's a joke.

[cboy4]

110. lmao nt.

[tammywammy]

6. K/L

[jackson_dem]

7. IWR

[mondo joe]

15. Obama's nominee for Surgeon General?

[CTLawGuy]

19. Notice how no one still cares

about McClurkin other than a few fringe activists on DU?

No mainstream gay groups that I know of have endorsed another in the primary because of this incident,
No mainstream gay groups have currently run ads condemning Obama and telling people not to vote for him,
No prominent gay activist is campaigning against him because of McClurkin or campaigning for a rival candidate because of the incident,
No gay rights groups currently protest him in significant numbers because of this incident,
No advocates for gay rights condemn him currently on news shows because of McClurkin.

Perhaps I am wrong, but only a loud few on this board still give a crap about Donnie McClurkin, and certainly none but a loud few give a crap to the extreme degree that we see from those fringe few.


Look if you don't want to vote for him because of Donnie McClurkin, fine. Nothing wrong with that. But I'm just pointing out, almost no one with any visiblity agrees with your continued obsession with this.

Now, let the flames begin!

[NMMNG]

23. Yeah, you just keep thinking that if it keeps you warm at night.

:eyes:

[CTLawGuy]

24. It actually does

thanks for noticing! The thought that most gay activists are reasonable is very comforting.

[hulklogan]

26. Obamanaut "McClurkin Ex-Gay Talking Point" #23

No GLBT people/friends/groups/advocates care about McClurkin except you uppity fringe gay homosexuals on DU.

We've heard it all before.

[CTLawGuy]

28. prove me wrong

NT.

[Occam Bandage]

29. Labeling it a "talking point" does not make it untrue. Although McClurkin is a huge issue on DU,

few outside DU--even and especially among GLBT advocacy groups--give a shit.

[hulklogan]

37. Pay attention to the real GLBT media

and you'll see the McClurkin issue hovering around every mention of Senator Obama. Just because we've given up on the fine Senator from Illinois doesn't mean the issue isn't still in the back of our minds.

[Occam Bandage]

44. "Real" undoubtedly being defined as "among the minority that care about McClurkin."

Gay newspapers endorsing Obama? Not real, apparently. Gay newspapers that believe that candidates ought be judged on their record? Not real, apparently. GLBT supporters of Obama? Not "one of us," apparently.

[hulklogan]

49. Did I say people weren't endorsing him or editorializing in his favor?

What I said was that the issue is always around whenever Senator Obama is mentioned in the GLBT media, and that can't mean that McClurkin has gone away as an issue in the GLBT community.

Examples:

McClurkin mentioned in Advocate profile of someone who is "leaning" Obama - http://election2008.advocate.com/2008/01/speaking-your-t.html

McClurkin mentioned in Edge Boston article about Obama's MLK day speech - http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=glbt&sc2=news&sc3=&id=55168

McClurkin mentioned in CampKC article about the election -
http://www.campkc.com/campkc-content.php?Page_ID=759

These articles were all on the first page of results from Google News. Do I need to go on?

[Occam Bandage]

51. And in none of those

does McClurkin appear to be an actual issue. In fact, in each of the three you've presented, the McClurkin affair is only brought up in order to be dismissed.

[hulklogan]

54. But is is brought up, meaning that it is still an issue.

If nobody cares about it, as you claim, why bring it up at all?

[Occam Bandage]

58. You found three instances of McClurkin being dismissed as irrelevant. Very convincing.

They're brought up because it was once a visible stumbling block among the GLBT community; it's noteworthy that in none of those articles is it treated as relevant. Everyone's pretty much decided it was toothless pandering and has moved on.

[hulklogan]

63. Or everyone has realized that Obama is out of touch with GLBT Americans

and some have accepted it as part of the package should they choose vote for him. I read it as a "buyer beware" message, like saying, "Even though AquaDots contain GHB, some people are still planning on buying them for their kids for Christmas"

[Occam Bandage]

69. All the polling I've seen shows Obama perceived as a leader on GLBT issues

by a majority of the community. Do you have any data showing otherwise?

[mondo joe]

92. There are no "leaders" in the way you are suggesting. We're not sheep.

Watch the money and votes.

[cloudythescribbler]

87. oops

[cloudythescribbler]

86. Links????

[hulklogan]

97. See post #49 n/t

[NMMNG]

48. The black LGBT bloggers certainly haven't ignored it

Pam's House Blend (Pam Spaulding) http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=mcclurkin&btnG=Search&domains=www.pamshouseblend.com&sitesearch=www.pamshouseblend.com

Republic of T (Terrance)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Arepublicoft.com+mcclurkin+obama&btnG=Search


Jasmyne Cannick
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:jasmynecannick.typepad.com+mcclurkin+obama&hl=en&filter=0

Keith Boykin
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Akeithboykin.com+mcclurkin+obama&btnG=Search

Rod 2.0 (Rod McCullom)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Arodonline.typepad.com+mcclurkin+obama&btnG=Search




It's not just a few lunatic fringe whackjobs here at DU keeping this issue alive. It's not just some black-man hating whiteys doing it either. Obama made a grave misstep that he failed to correct. Then he screwed up again with Kirbyjohn Caldwell because he just doesn't give a flying fig about LGBT people. Who knows what other ex-gay scum he has doing dirty work for him. Only time will tell.

[Occam Bandage]

52. While not meaning to offend the noble profession of blogging,

pointing to bloggers does not exactly counter the claim that the McClurkin "outrage" is at this moment confined to the internets.

[NMMNG]

56. Do you think those bloggers are confined to the internets?

Do you think their readers are?

Do you think neither the bloggers nor the readers vote?

There are very real people behind those computers, and they vote. They can also refuse to vote should they not like the choices they're offered come election time.

Something to keep in mind.

[hulklogan]

59. Senator Obama apparently thinks he doesn't need GLBT votes,

why should his supporters and defenders think otherwise? Obama is perfect, after all. :shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

61. I see no evidence of that.

http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome

[hulklogan]

65. A smile and a wave does not make a friend n/t

[NMMNG]

70. But he has an Obama Pride page

He loves us!

Certainly he'd never do anything to harm us *cough* McClurkin *cough* Kirbyjohn Caldwell *wretch*, would he?

[Occam Bandage]

72. So why does he have the page, if not because he wants GLBT people to vote for him?

[NMMNG]

79. He wants GLBT people to vote for him

He just doesn't give a shit about us.

[Occam Bandage]

80. That post was only challenging "apparently thinks he doesn't need GLBT votes."

[hulklogan]

99. I don't doubt that he wants GLBT votes and all the other votes he can get

including those of bigots, antichrist-ians, and republicks.

He seems to have calculated that he doesn't need the GLBT votes, however. What has he done recently for the GLBT community that indicates that he thinks we're a necessary part of his winning coalition? One clause of one sentence of church language in one speech on MLK Jr. Day?

[hulklogan]

73. And he so deeply cares about HIV/AIDS...

when it happens to heterosexual women or in Africa.

The love is so plain, it sure is hard work trying to ignore it.

[Occam Bandage]

74. Are you suggesting Obama explicitly does not care about HIV/AIDS among gays? How will you

back that one up?

[mondo joe]

103. Obama's concern about gays or AIDS is like a day after Christmas sale - priced to sell.

[NMMNG]

82. He so deeply cares about bigotry

When it happens to black people. Then he'll demand the firing of anybody who engages in it.

If it is done by a homophobe he'll hire the person.

[NMMNG]

64. St. Obama the second coming

Hope and Change, pass the Kool Aid. :puke:

[Occam Bandage]

60. Oh, sure they're real people. An extraordinarily small number of real people, who do not

represent the GLBT community at large, any more than Democratic Underground represents the Democratic party.

[NMMNG]

67. Keep marginalizing us. We're used to it.

Isn't it time for you to tell us to get under the bus? I'm sure I heard something about how we're going to lose the election for the Dems. :eyes:


Predictable, if nothing else.

[Occam Bandage]

71. Oh, I'm not marginalizing GLBTs. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I'm saying that you are marginal and as such not remotely representative of the GLBT community.

[NMMNG]

76. Arrogant and condescending much?

[Occam Bandage]

78. But not incorrect.

[NMMNG]

81. You don't know jack shit about the GLBT community

But enjoy being the quintessential Obama supporter. Ciao.

[Occam Bandage]

83. Then you don't know jack shit about me.

Ciao back at'cha.

[NMMNG]

31. The fact that most politicians and their supporters don't give a shit. is..

par for the course. Thank you for your non-concern. :sarcasm:

[hulklogan]

25. Maybe mainstream gay groups and advocates have realized that Obama doesn't really care

about the GLBT community and have moved on to other things. It doesn't mean we're not still outraged.

Senator Obama seems to have a knack for bungling things, "not anti-gay" fundraisers included.

[CTLawGuy]

27. actually yes it does

surely if a presidential candidate outraged you, you would at least say something about it, and if he REALLY outraged you, you might at least indicate a preference for another candidate.

[hulklogan]

33. What is there to prefer?

Both candidates polling over 20% demonstrate the same level of tolerance for the GLBT community. The silence on the part of the "mainstream GLBT groups" when it comes to HillBama is very telling.

[mondo joe]

34. Gays are making it clear - to each other.

Not much point in a protest in the age of the internet. We can communicate with each other more easily.

[Occam Bandage]

39. Ignoring the fact that you're proposing insular self-marginalization,

I frankly have yet to hear anyone give a shit about McClurkin, and I constantly hang out at the queer center. The fact that all candidates believe gays ought remain second-class citizens is a bigger problem.

[mondo joe]

40. Just watch how we vote and where we put our money.

:-)

[Occam Bandage]

42. I am. It doesn't support your theory.

http://www.baywindows.com/index.php?ch=columnists&sc=guest_opinion&sc2=&sc3=&id=54315
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=glbt&sc2=&sc3=&id=55168
http://www.chicagofreepress.com/node/175

[mondo joe]

46. Silly. Not one of those links shows how gays are voting or giving $.

A couple of essays or endorsements don't tell you anything.

[Occam Bandage]

50. Well, no exit polls have been done. The most recent poll I've seen shows Clinton with 63%,

Obama with 22%, and Edwards with 7%. Of all GLBT, only 21% claim their support is based on gay-rights issues. A majority consider Clinton and Obama both leaders on gay issues, though Clinton has a 10-point lead there; Edwards is considered a leader by a minority.

That support appears to be due to Clinton's long record of being positive on gay issues, and Obama's relatively short record, rather than any particular failing of Obama's. Frankly, there's no evidence that McClurkin is an issue at all among the gay community.

[Duncan Grant]

90. Let me assure you, the SF gay community is aware.

Whether or not it makes a difference -- who knows? But that doesn't change the fact that people are aware and they don't like it. FYI...

[hulklogan]

41. Most of us have better things to do than discuss the failings of Senator Obama

24/7. That doesn't mean we don't care.

[Occam Bandage]

43. Or, rather, it means that very few care about one instance of pandering

when compared to the records of the various candidates.

[hulklogan]

53. Or that very few of us care to discuss one pathetic instance of pandering

when we could be talking about Heath Ledger. I have no reason to obsess about McClurkin because I know the truth about Senator Obama - that he's tolerant of GLBT Americans, discusses us using the language of his church, and doesn't support full equality.

[Occam Bandage]

55. Which is a neat little theory, as it conveniently dismisses any need for evidence.

You may find it an issue, but you are not the GLBT community.

[hulklogan]

68. And you may think nobody cares, but you are not the GLBT community either

I've enjoyed this discussion. :thumbsup:

[Occam Bandage]

75. No, but I'm not relying on a generalization of my own feelings here.

[mondo joe]

30. You don't know a thing about the GLBT community.

Thanks for making it so clear.

[Occam Bandage]

32. And you presume to speak for GLBT people as a group?

[mondo joe]

35. Not at all. Just telling you that's how it is.

[Occam Bandage]

36. Not from what I've seen.

[mondo joe]

38. Doesn't surprise me.

[maddiejoan]

45. The fact remains

HRC and JRE picked up a large amount of LGBT endorsements.

Obama --not so much

[Bluebear]

62. "a few fringe activists" - - another assholish comment

[NMMNG]

84. Be quiet. You don't represent the LGBT community you lunatic.

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

88. Pipe down, you anarchist freak. What do you know about mainstream gays & lesbians?

:silly:

[NMMNG]

89. Apparently nothing. I'm marginal and irrelevant.

Or so I've been told. :P

[CTLawGuy]

107. prove me wrong

Who, from the world of people who spend their lives fighting for LGBT rights, has taken this McClurkin thing to the extreme that the keyboard commandos on DU have?

Obama detractors like to say that if Edwards (for example) had invited a KKK member to speak at a rally, THAT would be considered highly offensive. Thus the McClurkin affair warranted that same level of outrage.

But don't you think if Edwards did invite a KKK guy to speak, the NAACP would not have fully mobilized its political arm to advocate Edwards' defeat? Do you think that they would not have at least endorsed someone else, or held large scale protests of Edwards?

Why then, if McClurkin is just as bad as the KKK guy, is there no similar response from mainstream LGBT groups?

[Bluebear]

108. "keyboard commandos" - assholish comment #2. Ciao, have a great life

[cloudythescribbler]

85. This is an excellent point -- is there documentation? nt

[Duncan Grant]

91. You would be naive to assume that "mainstream" gay groups don't care about McClurkin or Caldwell.

Some of them do post here and others lurk.

May I ask why is it fringe or obsessive to speak out against right-wing Christian ideologues and ex-gay reparative therapy advocates aligning themselves with a Democratic candidate? I know you can't see it -- but there's something very wrong with this picture.

[LostinVA]

102. "a few fringe activists on DU?"

It's bad enough we're marginalized in American society... but it's disgusting to have it happen here on DU.

Shameful.

[Duncan Grant]

109. CBS news good enough for you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4193136&mesg_id=4193136

[BringBigDogBack]

21. present

[LowerManhattanite]

47. McLovin

[NMMNG]

57. Kirbyjohn Caldwell

[Hobarticus]

66. Funny...all the other one-liner threads sank like stones...

This one has legs here on DU, yet apparently "only the fringe" care about McClurkin.

[Occam Bandage]

77. You realize that we are the fringe, right?

[racaulk]

93. A hit and run post to stir up the pot and rub salt in old wounds?

The OP's silence throughout the rest of this thread speaks volumes.

:eyes:

[FredScuttle]

95. "stir up the pot and rub salt in old wounds"?

Obama started this shit by hiring an "ex-gay" clown to headline his campaign event and spit in the face of LGBT Democrats as well as straight Democrats who value equality for all.

It's amazing the power that the name "McClurkin" wields.

[Duncan Grant]

105. Seems blatantly disruptive, don't you think?

I would also like to see the LoZo drop in and defend this thread but it ain't gonna happen.

[DrFunkenstein]

94. Norman Hsu

Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie
Wang Jun
Johnny Chung
Liu Chaoying
General Ji
John Huang
Ted Sioeng

[IndianaJones]

96. this looks like it turned out to be a real funny joke. nt.

[William769]

98. Obama's biggest BIGOT! Go figure.

[mondo joe]

101. Oh he might not be Obama's biggest bigot. There's still Bush's "spiritual advisor"

to consider.

[chascarrillo]

111. Nice fact-checking.

Sigh.

[Buzz Clik]

100. Monica Monica. Vince Foster. FBI files. Travel Office. Monica Monica Whitewatergate.

[Bluebear]

104. VINCE FOSTER? Jeezum crow, what, did Hillary murder him?

[jlake]

106. The essence of Obama. Insincere, Irresponsible & Unsavory.

[chascarrillo]

112. McDougal.