"Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion."

[Occam Bandage]

"It's important in my case to have a personal relationship with the Lord, so that I pray daily and I feel that relationship all the time. And when I'm faced with difficult decisions, which I regularly am, I very often go to him in prayer."

"No. My praying is more conversational than that. It is me explaining to God what I am going through, what our family is going through, and asking him to help me see the way, to do what's right.

And asking him also, which I do regularly, to allow me not to focus on myself and my own selfish desires. Because I am a sinner and selfish, like every human being on the planet."

"Yes, absolutely. Every day. Every day. Because I am like anyone else. I revert to bad, selfish behavior. I try to make myself not do it, but I'm like everybody else. Sometimes better; sometimes worse. And I think there's not a single day goes by that he doesn't feel some disappointment in me. But, he doesn't give up on me--never gives up on me."

"I don't think separation of church and state means you have to be free from your faith. My faith informs everything I think and do. It's part of my value system. And to suggest that I can somehow separate and divorce that from the rest of me is not possible...freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion."

"I think that one of the things that's happened on some of the hot cultural societal issues is that those issues have been used to create a wedge, in some cases, between people of deep faith and the Democratic Party. And I think one of our responsibilities, one of my responsibilities as one of the leaders of the Democratic Party, is to bridge that gap that has been created."

"Allowing time for children to pray for themselves, to themselves, I think is not only okay, I think it's a good thing."

"You know, of course Ten Commandments Displays wouldn't offend me, because I'm Christian."

"Without faith-based groups there is no support for the poor. It's just that simple. And the poor would not survive without the existence of good, effective faith-based organizations."

"You asked me very early in this interview whether faith plays a role in my views...It does. It plays a very powerful role."

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/213/story_21312_1.html

Guys, every single viable candidate brings up God and Christianity. They all pander to the religious. Singling out one is dishonest.

[niyad]

1. sorry that is EXACTLY what it means. (who make that idiot remark?)

[Occam Bandage]

3. Click the link. John Edwards.

[Kolesar]

6. that was hard to stomach

And I did not click on the videos. Somehow, Democrats have to get the the criticism of greed, lying, and warmongering that is the failing in (gop) politics.

[algol]

16. Does Hillary think this also?

I can't find where she's said it, but Bill did back in 1994

"First I say that this prayer breakfast is an important time to reaffirm that in this Nation where we have freedom of religion, we need not seek freedom from religion."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2889/is_n5_v30/ai_15204274

This statement always bothered me. Being an atheist does not make me a part of a religion, its where I am after rejecting other people's religions.

[robbedvoter]

2. Except my man Gravel. And separation of church-state is freedom FROM religion

The prayer question at the debate - he was the only one who said" I think we need less prayers and more love and empowerment of the people"

[Nailzberg]

17. We unitarians tend to be the best at separation of church and state.

[Occam Bandage]

4. All those Edwards supporters upset about Obama's religious statements are MIA, I see.

[ThatPoetGuy]

8. I'm not missing in action.

I'm an Edwards supporter. I think Obama's religious, right-wing rhetoric is repulsive. He uses church speech in almost every sentence. His long speeches are straight from the pulpit of some Baptist minister. Fired up, ready to go. He refuses, consistently, to talk about issues, choosing instead to frame everything in religious terms; his followers are even trained to speak of their conversion narratives rather than their candidate's policies.

Here John Edwards was interviewed by a religious publication about his personal beliefs. They asked him what he believes, and he answered them. His answers are good ones.

They asked "What parts of American life do you think would most outrage Jesus?"

And Edwards answered, "Our selfishness. Our resort to war when it's not necessary. I think that Jesus would be disappointed in our ignoring the plight of those around us who are suffering and our focus on our own selfish short-term needs. I think he would be appalled, actually."

That's completely different from the constant pandering and scumbaggery we see from Obama, day in, day out. He talks about God and Jesus more than GW Bush and Mike Huckabee put together. It's either the most cynical, dishonest campaign I've evr seen, or he really does believe these things. It would be scarier if he really is the psychotic, born-again zealot he's claiming to be.

And here is a religious publication, asking a candidate about his personal beliefs. And they're good ones. Here's the context of that quote the OP misrepresented:

"I do believe in the separation of church and state. But I don't think separation of church and state means you have to be free from your faith. My faith informs everything I think and do. It's part of my value system. And to suggest that I can somehow separate and divorce that from the rest of me is not possible. I would not, under any circumstances, try to impose my personal faith and belief on the rest of the country. I don't think that's right. I don't think that's appropriate. But freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion. And I think that anything we can do to promote the idea that people should express their faith is a good thing."

Oh look, he supports freedom of speech. He supports freedom to practice your own religion in your own way and not have anyone persecute you for it.

Barack Obama's constant bible-thumping has made it clear that he wants to impose his belief and his faith on you, and on me. He thinks women should only be allowed to have abortions if their choice is "prayerful." Go ahead, find that in its full context; it's even worse than the line by itself. His response to the McClurkin fiasco deliberately made it unclear whether he thinks "our gay brothers and sisters" are all sinners who need to be forced to repent.

Either Barack Obama is a phony Christian, or he's the most obsessive Jesus-freak who has ever run for President. I certainly hope he's a phony Christian.

[durrrty libby]

9. I can't stand that sickening pulpit speechifying Obama does

[Occam Bandage]

11. How about that pulpit speechifying Clinton does?

[durrrty libby]

13. Worlds apart.

[Occam Bandage]

15. Your standards? Yes.

[durrrty libby]

26. Obama is JFK Obama is RFK Obama is Bill Clinton

Pick a persona a and stick with it. How about just be Obama

because he looks ridiculously arrogant comparing himself to these icons

[Occam Bandage]

27. Why are you bringing up JFK/RFK? Are they linked to Obama that closely in your mind?

[Occam Bandage]

10. Okay, so it's fine to selectively pick out

the Jesus-freak Obama quotes, and ignore the progressive Jesus quotes and context and all that jazz there...but when it comes to Edwards, we have to make sure to give some context, and buttress it with less-offensive quotes, etc., etc.

Just more double standards from Edwards supporters, I suppose.

[ThatPoetGuy]

18. Not in the least.

I've watched Obama's speeches, in full, and read the text of them, in full. The man terrifies me.

Obama's religious quotes, IN CONTEXT, are scarier than they are, out of context.

Read his response to the McClurkin thing. He bent over backwards to make sure he left his statements open to interpretation by every fag-bashing, gay-hating cultist in the world. None of the right-wing Christians would have a problem with anything he said. He deliberately didn't say that gay people have a right to choose whom they want to love, he deliberately didn't say that gay people aren't misguided sinners who need to be re-educated into society.

Edwards' quotes, in context, are pretty darn cool.

[Mythsaje]

5. Yes, they all do it.

Yes, singling one out for doing so is hypocritical.

And, yes, it's still nauseating.

[Sam Ervin jret]

7. Freedom Of Religion means freedom from the State making a State religion

It by extension means that if you choose as your "religion" not to have any "religion" you are free to do so.

To say that Edwards is pandering to anyone when he admits he is praying or when he answers a question about religion or faith based groups he gives a positive answer is to say the least being anti-faith. Is that what you really what to be?

you really what to be a society that outlaws faith?

Or do you want to be a society that allows for the open and honest and respectful exchange of ideas and the acceptance of faith or lack there of which every American is entitled to.

Disrespecting people of faith is no more correct than state sponsored religion. Intolerance is the issue.

intolerance of ideas, intolerance of differences, intolerance even of the most minute of differences.

Do I think the ten commandments should be in the court room, no, I think the Bill of rights would be more appropriate and is a historically more direct link and legally more salient document to be there. But does the ten commandments bother me? No what bothers me is the way they have been misinterpreted and used by both the contemporary church and the politicians.

If you want the commandments, you better be ready for the REAL ones. Like: THOU SHALT NOT STEAL did you know that if that was in the court room no person could ever be put in prison for going on your land and eating food that they needed. (how do you think walmart would like that?) Now they could not walk away with all your stuff - but eat and take a rest yup that's legal. According to the 10 commandments.

Oh and no more shopping on saturday or is it sunday (or anything else for that matter)

Oh what about those commercials? They do nothing but cause people to covet thy neighbors stuff. Out they go.

i wouldn't worry too much about the 10 commandment s being put in LAW.

Let's get to the point. People of faith, some do good work, some are a$$holes. What a surprise.

People who have no faith, some do good work, some are a$$holes. Again what a surprise.

No one tells the other what to believe or not to believe. And by the way, I know it's annoying to have people try to "convert" you but it's just as annoying to have people with less education than you, who have NEVER studied a single science let alone spent their lives studying many tell you "science proves that God does not exist."

Really? Got the math equation for that?

Open your minds and your hearts.

[bluedawg12]

28. Funny, I thought the politics of the religious RW was dead

a minister was just talking about it with Jon Stewart- he is moving on to the politics of poverty and the environment.

But not our guys/gals- a day late and a dollar short in pandering?

BTW- freedom of religion should guarantee everyone the right to pray, or not pray, to believe or not believe.

What a moronic litmus test this is: what if a candidate has a deep and abiding faith in Amon Ra, the Sun god? How long would that be taken with respect. This is to say, be free to pick your dogma and catechism and leave others pick and chose theirs. that, is nt an assault on faith, it is in support of the right to be free.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/05/closing_one_door_opening_anoth.html

May 03, 2007
The Beginning of the End of the Religious Right?
By Cal Thomas

[mondo joe]

12. They all bring up Christianity. They don't all give platforms to "ex gay" bigots

or tell us we're supposed to pray on our personal matters.

Thanks for evading the actual issue.

[NJObamaWoman]

14. Burn him at the stake. He's an evil Christian.

My God it seems the DU is all anti religion in any form. Yet these same people aren't slamming other candidates...no just Obama.

[Jamastiene]

24. That's because Obama gets on his knees and

sucks up to homophobes every chance he gets. The other Democratic contenders don't do that.

[ThatPoetGuy]

19. Here's the difference between Edwards' message and Obama's:

Edwards wants fundamentalist Christians to be more like liberals.

Obama wants liberals to behave more like fundamentalist Christians.

[Occam Bandage]

21. I would say that both want the former. Obama's most "outrageous" quote

(that is, his abortion one) came as he was explaining to the 700 club how the religious might still support abortion rights.

[Jamastiene]

25. Beautiful.

I wish I could nominate a post that is not an OP.

:thumbsup:

[More Than A Feeling]

20. I notice you had to go to an expressly religious site to get

Edwards' religion stuff. With Obama, (and Hillary?) you don't. IMHO, Edwards brings it up the least.

[ThatPoetGuy]

22. It's not even that the OP had to GO to a religious site...

the site had ASKED DIRECT QUESTIONS about Edwards' religion. He answered them.

Suppose you have two friends who are salesmen -- Johnny and Barry. Johnny sells pots and pans, and he thinks they're swell -- but he never mentions them unless you ask him to talk about his pots and pans. Barry is more aggressive than that, he sells silverware, and he talks about it non-stop: "I bet your life would be much better if you bought some of my silverware!"

Here's something scary: I bet, if you lined them up side by side, you'd find that Barack Obama talks about his Christian beliefs MORE OFTEN THAN RUDY GIULIANI TALKS ABOUT 9/11.

[Occam Bandage]

23. The most frequent problem I have heard about Obama's views is

"OMG I'M SICK OF RELIGIOUS VIEWS INFESTING OUR POLITICS I BET HIS RELIGION WILL TAKE OVER HIS POLICIES." Well, no. Obama, when he talks about his religion, sounds exactly like Edwards when he talks about his religion. Obama talks about it somewhat more frequently, but then again he also has the problem of running against the "Muslim" slur. And, frankly, he doesn't talk about it that often. It's noteworthy that the vast majority of the outrage here is over only a handful of Obama quotes, spanning his entire political career. Rudy comes out with another 9/11 comment every time he opens his mouth.