@@@ OFFICIAL SOUTH CAROLINA CAGE-MATCH #4 @@@

[THUNDER HANDS]

[Warpy]

1. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sick of the Bickersons.

Edwards is getting sabotaged again.

[LSK]

2. pass the popcorn

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[ellisonz]

7. pass the beer

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. it's obama in the corner, with Edwards and Clinton pounding away

Obama fighting back, Clinton goes for the chair....

[tekisui]

4. Nasty Nasty Nasty.

[NJSecularist]

5. Now Edwards is attacking Obama

Wow.

[AGirl]

6. I've never thought I would see the day when Edwards stand up for HIllary..

[michaz]

11. He made a very good point, I don't think it was really standing up for Hillary.

[Windy]

20. He has to. he voted for the war and the bankruptcy bill... n/t

[HughMoran]

8. Edwards and Obama

:D

[Sparkly]

9. This seems to me like a golden opportunity for Edwards

but I don't know, I'm just sitting here worrying about them all.

[annabanana]

10. He's coming across like the Rational voice...

[Lugnut]

Yeah he is.

Go Johnny go.

[Politicub]

17. He really is

It's John's moment tonight.

It's hard for me to objectively evaluate Hillary's performance because I'm backing her for the primary, but she's coming across as strong and in command of the facts to me.

Obama seems young tonight, and not in a good way. Maybe green is the right word instead of young.

[annabanana]

12. Here comes health care.... everybody ready?

[sniffa]

13. MANDATES OR ELSE

[ellisonz]

14. Hillary running for Class President.

[ruggerson]

15. Relax you guys - the Repukes have had just as volatile debates

[michaz]

21. That's the point. Hillary and Obama are acting worse than the Repugs.

[ruggerson]

26. No they're not

there have been two or three Repuke debates where they have been literally at each other's throats.

[Colobo]

16. I've never seen this version of Obama.

I wasn't expecting this.

[ruggerson]

23. I'm not happy that he's getting flustered and angry

and I'm not happy with Hillary that she's attacking him instead of Bush

But that's politics.

[Colobo]

27. It's terrible. Both seem to be pissed...

[Sparkly]

32. They're scaring me.

I don't want them to damage each other!!

[THUNDER HANDS]

37. I want my blankie

:scared:

[Sparkly]

45. Here, have a corner of mine.

:cry:

[ellisonz]

53. It's a little worn.

:silly:

[Sparkly]

79. .

:spank:

[ellisonz]

89. .

Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow Ow

:pals:

[mzmolly]

161. I think it's human to be flustered when under "attack?"

But, I do feel that the overall tone is over the top.

[VolcanoJen]

25. Obama 3.0, I kinda like it, personally.

:popcorn:

[ellisonz]

30. Let's talk about Iraq.

:popcorn:

[Kahuna]

141. Me too! Obama is "Obambi" no more. I LIKE this Obama. He's in

command and very cogent. I bet Michele is proud.

[polichick]

31. He's usually performing - this is real. nt

[Windy]

He has to respond to the crap that has been thrown at him this week.

If not, he'd look weak and he's not weak. Its hard to have your record attacked when you pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps from a disadvantaged position and worked your ass off to get where you are...

Working as an organizer during public sector work instead of a wall street firm when he has a harvard law degree is much different then having a privileged life at Wellsley, etc...

I'm glad he's fighting. let the chips fall where they may...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

46. admirable, but terribly off-message... he's not so beloved for his temper

[Emit]

149. But who is beloved for his/her temper ?

;)

[MzShellG]

118. This is the fire he will need to deal with repukes in the GE.

I knew he had it in him, having dealt in tough Chicago politics.

[annabanana]

18. Will Edwards bop the insurance industries?

[Lugnut]

19. Affordable for everybody?

That depends on your definition of affordability.

[calmblueocean]

22. What happens when the truth doesn't fit in a 5-second soundbyte?

Obama's present votes were part of an organized strategy for the Democratic Party of Illinois, but explaining the ins and outs of that strategy don't fit in a 10 second soundbyte. Is Hillary entitled to take advantage of this? Sure, I guess. But it doesn't show integrity. It doesn't make me want to vote for her or support her.

[annabanana]

24. "Who is carrying water for the insurance companies?"

Who indeed... (all of them?)

[onehandle]

28. "Two Universal. One is not." nt

[leftofthedial]

65. but all three are pro-insurance company

[onehandle]

100. Wrong. nt

[leftofthedial]

146. Right. nt

[annabanana]

29. Go Johnny

[jannyk]

33. John Rocks!!!!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

34. If this was a TV drama, Barack and Hillary would end up kissing

(men and women just don't fight like this on TV shows except as a sexual tension thing)

[polichick]

38. LOL

[Sparkly]

39. lol

Thanks for breaking my tension for a moment!

I can hear the violins swelling now....

[DemCam]

41. maybe they will

[More Than A Feeling]

49. Everyone's head will explode.

Please let that happen! :rofl:

[robbedvoter]

75. damn right~! well said...

[Emit]

35. I appreciate John's manners tonight

and the fact that he's taking his time to try to explain things that the general public may not be aware of is important

[More Than A Feeling]

36. Obama is misleading

Edwards' plan has assistance for those who can't afford it.

[Emit]

40. Let's hope he gets a chance to respond

[More Than A Feeling]

44. Now Obama brings it up himself.

oops for him

[Catchawave]

47. He doesn't explain positions clearly enough

[OneGrassRoot]

76. Observations about Obama:

He is an excellent speaker when giving a speech, but he does falter in these debates (and I don't think it's because he's not prepared or being evasive or anything negative such as that...but he doesn't come across as STRONG).

And what I observed as anger from him early in the debate, and liked that he was displaying that passion, it's coming across (to me) as an uncontrolled anger.

Hopefully he'll find his stride. Hopefully he and Hillary both will calm down. I don't want to be nervous about any of our three.

That said, if this tone keeps up throughout the debate, I defy anyone to say Edwards hasn't been the presidential one.

But there's a lot of time left...lol

[calmblueocean]

86. I think it's so sad that if someone with a great mind can't deliver every line like an actor...

... they're judged by the American people to be weak or faltering. I hate the way TV has affected our democracy. All we can elect these days are actors.

Not anything against you or your post, just a personal feeling for me tonight.

[OneGrassRoot]

116. Good point. Ever since Nixon-Kennedy debate. n/t

[annabanana]

42. rec this thread

[bdamomma]

43. we should call them the Mod Squad

does anyone remember that show???? Julie, Linc and Pete!!

[laruemtt]

55. julie, linc and pete never fought like this! n/t

[chimpymustgo]

140. OMG - Julie, Linc, and Pete! The effing MOD SQuAD!!! Good on you, laruemutt!!

This think is SMOKING. But methinks that very fine Pete is bringing it HOME!

[Kahuna]

148. Ha ha. Very cute.

:thumbsup:

[HughMoran]

48. Obama - Edwards battle it out - Hillary nods :D

[durrrty libby]

60. Hillary is fabulous on healthcare

[onehandle]

50. Obama being called out on misleading by Hillary and Edwards.

Interesting.

[BuyingThyme]

51. Thirty seconds?! Health care?!

:rofl:

[annabanana]

52. Wolfie does look miserable, doesn't he?

[More Than A Feeling]

57. he should just leave, and let the candidates

question each other. They are doing a great job.

[BuyingThyme]

73. Exactly. These candidates can do it without the schmucks.

[Catchawave]

61. Candidates keep interupting him....lol. Yay Dems!

[K Gardner]

54. SHE"S YELLING AGAIN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[HughMoran]

62. Yeah, those shrill women are just awful!

:eyes:

[ellisonz]

70. At least she's not cackling.

[tridim]

Anyone know what's up with the scaffold graphics on CNN?

What photoshop genius came up with that?

[jannyk]

56. Obama is not disappointing me tonight...

he's exactly as wishy washy and unprepared as I thought he was. The other two are making him look like a rank amateur.

[Lugnut]

74. You're right.

He's also hogging the stage.

[THUNDER HANDS]

58. if this is what hillary is like when she's angry on tv

can you imagine how she was after she found out about Monica?

[K Gardner]

64. OMG, lol... I was thinking about that the other day ! No wonder Bill is scared !

[LSK]

59. HILLARY GOES OUT OF THE RING AND GRABS A STEEL CHAIR!!!

[Ikonoklast]

63. Hillary gave up on health care before

This time it will be even easier for her with all that pharma and medical lobbyist jingle in her pocket.

[DemCam]

71. Not her...the Repubs...big time

[annabanana]

66. Hillary is mistaking Obama for her primary opponent tonight..

REmember... Edwards is speaking in his home dialect tonight.

[halobeam]

150. They both are

jmo, but both of them are looking like mud slinging dirty politicians. John is refreshing.

[bullwinkle428]

67. LET ME FINISH!! He's morphing into Ross Perot!

:)

[Think82]

68. As a formr Bidenite, I am now an Obamanian.

Even though a lot of people go from Biden to Hillary because of the "experience" factor, I think Obama and Biden are closer in their judgment and in the straightforward, pragmatic, intellectual spirit with which they make policy decisions. They also do not pander.

[zulchzulu]

103. Congrats!

[calmblueocean]

69. Ugh, Hillary is just full of crap tonight.

- the only thing "universal" about Hillary's plan is the universal requirement for poor people to spend money they don't have to buy health insurance. That's a selling point? Please. Grandstanding on misleading the public this way is just odious.

[K Gardner]

77. She does it because people let her get away with it and applaud her for deception.

[HughMoran]

80. she is so focused and prepared

gotta giver some credit.

[Sparkly]

108. She is that.

She went in with a strategy and she's going for it.

I don't understand the strategy, but she's on a mission for sure.

[calmblueocean]

112. Hillary is smart. Definitely. That's why her conduct is inexcusable.

She knows exactly what she's doing, exactly how she's misleading the public, exactly how she's lying. And she keeps on doing it. Energetically, with gusto. It's just gross. I want to like Hillary, but when she pulls these stunts, it makes me physically nauseous.

[GreenArrow]

83. Edwards says the same thing

"universal". Both plans are shit.

[jannyk]

96. I think she's quite magnificent tonight - Obama not so much.

[iris5426]

72. this really is a fascinating debate....they are not fucking around even a little bit!

Hillary and Obama are all up in each other's shit, John is for the most part looking like the calmest most sane person on the stage...I love it!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[goodgd_yall]

158. The thing is

if Edwards was in a close race for the top spot, he'd be doing the same thing as Obama and Hillary.

[asdjrocky]

78. I've said this a few times now-

But have you noticed John is the only one no one has called a liar? What do you think that means everybody?

[FreeState]

90. Hillary is winning the debate for this very reason

she sees Edwards as the man at the end of the table, and Obama - well she just got 1/2 the people watching to doubt his Hope and his charicter - I can only imagine the pretzel she would make of any of the repubs.

[NJSecularist]

91. He's just not important enough

Hillary is directing her barbs at Obama, Obama is directing his barbs at Clinton. Edwards is irrelevant to those two, Obama is just defending himself from Edwards' accusations.

[smalll]

107. That he got 4% of the vote in the last contest, maybe? /nt

[annabanana]

81. finally Iraq

[More Than A Feeling]

82. Could you imagine the Republicans shouting at each other

about complicated stuff like this? They'd all look blank and confused, and their flapping gums would reflexively spew bumper sticker talking points.

[annabanana]

87. These guys are ALL smart. (such a change all by itself)

[HughMoran]

93. YEah, Republicans are devoid of intellect

[iris5426]

106. LOL that is so true I love it nt

[K Gardner]

84. Does anybody but me think Tweety is sitting in front of a TV somewhere slobbering and going HA HA HA

[DemCam]

104. he always slobbers

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

85. bad answer hil, you should have said "we ALREADY won it"

No saddam

No WMD

finis

[More Than A Feeling]

92. Good call.

Hope someone else says that.

[tekisui]

95. You can't win an occupation. You end one.

But that question was a trap. Pukes want to win. It's unwinnable.

[Ikonoklast]

88. Hillary gets the Iraq question

And finally made some sense.

Too bad all those kids are still dead, though.

[K Gardner]

94. What's the headline out of tonight? I'll wager: DEMOCRATIC MELTDOWN. EDWARDS ONLY ADULT IN ROOM.

[annabanana]

98. (they will not credit Edwards - mark my words)

[K Gardner]

105. Yeah, unfortunately you're probably right. It will be another "Hillary won" headline, per usual.

[michaz]

115. Well it is damn well time people start thinking for themselves!

[FreeState]

117. She is winning it - a lot of ppl already sees her as a negative

she just made Obama look worse, thats all she had to do to win - even the playing field

[Beausoir]

111. I hope you are not correct. I really like Edwards.

[halobeam]

122. cancel that thought anna

I hope you are wrong.

[asdjrocky]

109. That would sure be my headline-

Now let's keep an close eye on the media.

[ellisonz]

129. Breaking: HILLARY GOES NEGATIVE, ATTACKS OBAMA IN DEBATE.

[grantcart]

97. The comparison between these three

and the republicans is like the difference between whales and guppies

[tekisui]

101. True that!

[tekisui]

99. No surge----ESCALATION

[More Than A Feeling]

102. That got lost a long time.

Too bad, too.

[tekisui]

110. You're right, it was swallowed and is sitting in stomachs now.

[More Than A Feeling]

114. You better go eat something. You sound hungry.

:-)

[tekisui]

124. I want a second helping of surge. yummy, mmmm.

[OzarkDem]

113. Edwards could take over the WH and do the job right now

He's the most fully prepared of all the candidates, Dem and GOP.

[K Gardner]

119. I don't see any way to doubt that. He's absolutely SHONE tonight.

[Inspired]

123. He is. He knows his facts. He has actual PLANS.

[vanboggie]

127. He's the best choice all the way around

No matter what anyone says, JRE is the candidate who can easily mop the floor with the Rethugs.

[OzarkDem]

152. He'll make short work of the GOP in the GE

The news media will have a hard time ignoring him and he'll take them to the cleaners, then get started in the WH.

[Glimmer of Hope]

135. He is the strongest candidate.

[Yael]

139. So WHY aren't people SEEING this? DAMN!!!

[vanboggie]

165. I dunno, Yael

I can't figure out why people are voting against their own self interests. We've seen where corporate interests gets us.

[zulchzulu]

120. Barack: We need to be as careful to get out as we were careless to get in

Johnny got smacked.

[asdjrocky]

133. Sure, right, John Edwards got smacked by a bumper sticker.

Wishful thinking buddy.

[grantcart]

121. I wonder how many people are watching this

is it just the people who are already committed?

[FreeState]

125. Probably n/t

[K Gardner]

128. I imagine most of SC and a lot of the Feb 5th states people who are interested in voting

[NoBorders]

130. It's all about the soundbites the next day n/t

[Yael]

151. Yep -- it will be the Hillary Obama Entertainment tonight special and Edwards message will be lost

[Sparkly]

138. I dunno but the media is going to have a FIELD day with it.

Maybe HRC's goal was just to change the story.

[More Than A Feeling]

126. Hillary owns this "long term agreements" issue. She's brought it up twice now

in two debates.

[grantcart]

132. it is one of her best shots

[halobeam]

131. Whatever rules are left LOL

[More Than A Feeling]

136. I wanted one of the candidates to snarl "The rule are GONE, old man!"

Like Adam Sandler shouting "The Price is WRONG, bitch!"

[BuyingThyme]

134. It's on!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

142. When does the mud wrestling start????? n/t

:rofl:

[Ikonoklast]

137. Wolf actually not doing too bad a job

Letting the punches land. So far, pretty even.

[More Than A Feeling]

143. Mostly by pretending not to be there.

The next time they ignore him, I want him to pull out an air horn. Then the candidates gang up on him!

[Mist]

147. He's not so much doing a good job as they're not letting him interfere too much. nt

[Yael]

156. Early on, he kept trying to cut HRC off. Protecting his WH Spokeman job and her from herself

[calmblueocean]

160. I think Wolfie's the worst.

He doesn't give any structure to the debate, and then you end up with candidates squabbling all night and no policy debate. Stand up, man!

[NastyRiffraff]

144. OMG! They're going to "no rules"! Hope they have paramedics around

Get ready for a brawl

[Kahuna]

159. At the very least some smelling salts.

:)

[goodgd_yall]

145. I'm glad to see John mixing it up with Obama

for a change. He's doing well tonight!

[K Gardner]

153. Thread 5 is up everybody

[maddiejoan]

154. Edwards is winning this

Clinton is remaining stable


Obama is melting

[eppur_se_muova]

155. THREAD #5

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4147134&mesg_id=4147134

[FogerRox]

157. Hello, anybody got a link for streaming.?

thanks in advance

[BuyingThyme]

It's a CNN deal. Check out their frontpage.

(I'm on the TVs.)

[debbierlus]

162. cnn.com

Top Right Under the Top Box

[FogerRox]

163. Got it thanks

[Think82]

164. I like all our candidates, but Obama is the only one who seems like a President, not a candidate.