Could Hillary be President without Bill? Obama never needed anyone.

[LittleBlue]

I ask this because, without any influence of Bill Clinton, she doesn't seem to have much more experience than Obama. Obama has been a U.S. Senator since being elected in 2004, and before that as an Illinois State Senator since 1997. Hillary has been a U.S. Senator since 2001.

So how does she have more overall legislative experience than Obama? I don't see how she jumps straight to U.S. Senator without Bill. I don't see how she is a presidential candidate without being a Senator first, and even then she needs Bill's name recognition, speaking engagements, organization, and clout. Obama seems to have gotten where he is by himself, and seems not to have needed powerful family members to get where he is. He became a constitutional scholar by himself. He's self-made.

I guess I'm trying to point out that without connections Hillary is probably a successful lawyer, but certainly not a candidate for high office. And Obama didn't need any. Why do we want someone who got where they are because of their spouse? Aren't we just re-electing Bill constitutionally?

[xultar]

1. SEXIST

[LittleBlue]

2. What? If Obama's wife were Oprah, couldn't I ask the same question???

I hope you were sarcastic ;_;

[Kittycat]

3. Are you serious with that response?

[Joe the Revelator]

5. Not in the slightest, she's running as a former "co-president"

Its a fair question.

[aquart]

11. And I sincerely hope you ask it often and in public.

Be a dear and do that little thing for me?

[Joe the Revelator]

17. You're condesending attitude is beyond immature.

Why don't you grow up a bit, stop being a brat, and quit with the threats that say people can't fight back against Hillary's bullshit.

[FrenchieCat]

13. What does that mean?

You think that a wife having to bring her husband to a job interview in order to get the job is liberating? A woman to have to list her husband's accomplishment on her resume in order to feel qualify sounds good to you?

And I add, it wouldn't be any better if a husband had to bring his wife to the job interview in order to get the job either.

Hillary always talking about ready from day one. So how is she so much more ready than any of the other candidates? what is it that she'd done that the others haven't? Please illuminate us.

[LittleBlue]

16. I was wondering the same thing. In the feminist studies courses I took in college

this situation was not considered very liberating or helpful to the cause.

[FrenchieCat]

24. More like a few steps backwards!

My daughters aren't proud of this Billary situation. In fact, my oldest recently asked me ...."those people voting for Hillary, they just want Bill back, uh?"

[MagickMuffin]

48. If you really wanted to know about Hillary's accomplishments all you have to do is some RESEARCH

I'm not a Hillary supporter, but I'll be damned if I let anyone portray her as riding on Bill Clinton's coat-tails. You really should research all our candidates running for office. You may have to vote for them in the General.


In 1965, Rodham enrolled in Wellesley College, where she majored in political science. She served as president of the Wellesley Young Republicans organization during her freshman year. However, due to her evolving views regarding the American Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War, she stepped down from that position; she characterized her own nature as that of "a mind conservative and a heart liberal."

In her junior year, Rodham was affected by the death of Martin Luther King, Jr., and became a supporter of the anti-war presidential nomination campaign of Democrat Eugene McCarthy. Rodham organized a two-day student strike and worked with Wellesley's black students for moderate changes, such as recruiting more black students and faculty.


In that same year she was elected president of the Wellesley College Government Association. She attended the "Wellesley in Washington" summer program at the urging of Professor Alan Schechter, who assigned Rodham to intern at the House Republican Conference so she could better understand her changing political views. Rodham was invited by Representative Charles Goodell, a moderate New York Republican, to help Governor Nelson Rockefeller’s late-entry campaign for the Republican nomination. Rodham attended the 1968 Republican National Convention in Miami, where she decided to leave the Republican Party for good; she was upset over how Richard Nixon's campaign had portrayed Rockefeller and what Rodham perceived as the "veiled" racist messages of the convention.

During her post-graduate study, Rodham served as staff attorney for Edelman's newly founded Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children. During 1974 she was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.
Under the guidance of Chief Counsel John Doar and senior member Bernard Nussbaum, Rodham helped research procedures of impeachment and the historical grounds and standards for impeachment. The committee's work culminated in the resignation of President Richard Nixon in August 1974.

By then, Rodham was viewed as someone with a bright political future; Democratic political organizer and consultant Betsey Wright had moved from Texas to Washington the previous year to help guide her career; Wright thought Rodham had the potential to one day become a senator or president.






So, I would say she has plenty of experience as do ALL the candidates. I think Hillary sort of lost her way when she got married.

Again I urge you to start researching our candidates if you plan on staying with the party for the general.

You'll need the ammo/info to help get our CANDIDATE ELECTED

Peace

[LittleBlue]

50. That's community activism and law

Which don't count as "experience" for Obama, since he has lots but is apparently "inexperienced." He has more legislative experience. I don't understand how the Obama opponents who criticize him on the "lack of experience" ground can reconcile these facts with Hillary's history.

[MagickMuffin]

57. Ahem, Re-read my post I DIDN'T even mention Obama

or his experience. I pointed out Hillary's accomplishments without ever having met Bill. That's what started this Thread to begin with, it came across to me as someone who is not fully informed on our candidates. The candidate you chose to target was Hillary. Therefore I decided to inform everyone here about some of her accomplishments that had nothing to do with Bill.

I made it a point in my post, for ALL of us to research our candidates, since some posters here don't know our candidates history relating to their experience. I think it would be beneficial for us to be as informed as we can be about ALL our candidates.

Seems like common sense to me. At least the most logical choice. After the convention we will have a nominee. We better start getting ready.

It appears to me ALL our candidates have worked for social justice. We should be proud to have the candidates who have stood up for social and economic justice. Has the SYSTEM changed them?? Sure it has, some for the better some for the worst, everyone of them could use a little encouragement to act on their past grass roots activism.

I'll VOTE for the Democratic Party before I'd vote for anyone else.


Peace

[LittleBlue]

59. Right. But her campaign has made Obama's experience an issue.

That's what I was addressing. I did manage to read your whole post, and even saw the part where you said you weren't a Hillary supporter. I just wanted to point out that the achievements you listed would not be considered "experience" for Obama by Hillary's (campaign's) definition.

[JVS]

22. It's in all caps! It must be true!

:eyes:

[LulaMay]

38. MY 1st response indeed. Only one word needed. Sad how many refuse to see it.

[water]

45. NOT sexist. Just wrong.

You can't discount her time has first lady as experience.

Anyways, she's probably be more politically viable if it weren't for her husband.

[KennedyGuy]

4. spoken of a candidate that hides behind Oprah...

[Yael]

7. LOL!

[LittleBlue]

9. But that was after he got there. Not before.

He didn't need Oprah to get this far. Hillary has Bill to speak for her at this point.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. Last I saw, Oprah came out one weekend. Hillary hides behind Bill on a daily basis.

[Auntie Bush]

63. That might be because they are married. Duh!!!!!! n/t

[Jamastiene]

15. ...

Nailed it.

[aquart]

6. He didn't need Rezko?

You might want to be more careful about how you insult women and wives. But, personally, I hope you become Obama's speechwriter.

[Mass]

72. No, (s)he did not - As a woman, I am not offended. It is a question that she brought on herself by

claiming her experience as first lady as the main rational for her run.

What is amazing is that she has many qualities that would make me look at her: being a woman, her work in the Senate, her work for children and healthcare, but she chose the rational to say that electing her would bring Bill Clinton to the White House, as if she did not believe she was strong enough to win.

My feeling is that SHE brought women's cause backward and it is sad.

[Lucinda]

8. Perhaps you should research her record a little bit.

You seem to be a bit uninformed. Wikipedia is a good starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

[LittleBlue]

12. Please enlighten me. I looked into her biographies and found nothing

in terms of legislative experience.

[DJ13]

19. Oh but Hillary has LOTS of experience!

She kept those Rose lawfirm records out of sight of the Special Prosecuter for years, that took some executive experience.

And then there was her $4,000 "investment" that she turned into $100,000 trading hog futures, that also took some executive experience.
:eyes:

[EffieBlack]

21. Ken Starr, is that you?

[DJ13]

28. Think the Republicans arent salivating over using this stuff against Hillary in November?

Think again.

What Im saying is already well known, but the GOP has been targeting a Hillary nomination for the last 8 years.

They wont be so nice.

[EffieBlack]

39. Now: "Save" "Save" "Save" - come September "Cut/Paste" "Cut/Paste" "Cut/Paste"

[Lucinda]

41. Link:

http://clinton.senate.gov/senate/legislation/

[LittleBlue]

46. I know about that part. I said so in the OP.

But that still doesn't add up to more years than Obama-- it is in fact fewer.

[Lucinda]

61. You asked for her legislative experience in post 8 .

I provided the link.

And if you REALLY had done your homework you would know she has extensive experience. If you prefer Obama or Edwards thats fine...but trying to claim she's just successful because she's Bills wife is a bit juvenile.

[Horse with no Name]

14. I think she could...and in fact

I think she might almost be better off because she also has the burden of carrying Bill's bad baggage, although nobody wants to credit her with the good. She is a very smart woman. I wished she leaned more to my core beliefs because I would love to want to vote for her.

[Catch22Dem]

26. When Clinton was impeached, he enjoyed approval ratings above 65%

Above 70% by some polls. Not exactly bad baggage. People may not have liked how he behaved, but they were overwhelmingly pleased how he ran the country.

[sandnsea]

52. She could send Bill home any day of the week

But she's not. See?

And when she pretends she doesn't have anything to do with the behavior of all these bad boys around her, well what does that tell you about HER?

If she would run a campaign standing on her own two feet, she probably would be a lot farther ahead today. The men in her campaign have caused her all the problems.

[Skinner]

18. I don't think this is fair.

My understanding is that Hillary was a superstar before she ever met Bill. Super smart and ambitious. It is possible that she could have been president even if she had never met Bill Clinton. But she had to put her ambitions on hold to play the political wife for two decades. For all we know, she could have been governor or senator somewhere entirely on her own if she had been free to do so.

[LittleBlue]

23. You're right: her record indicates she is gifted.

But that's not what I asked. Many gifted individuals don't have a chance of higher office. Nader has arguably one of the most shining academic records, and he isn't feasible.

[Skinner]

65. Actually, it is exactly what you asked.

Your question was: "Could Hillary be President without Bill?" My answer is yes.

(Being merely gifted is not enough to make one president. Being gifted and immensely ambitious and wanting to be president is the minimum requirement. I think that Nader might have the skills to be president, but clearly he isn't actually trying to become president.)

[EffieBlack]

30. You make an excellent point, but

I think you're mistaken about one thing. She put her ambitions on hold, not necessarily by choice, but because the options were so limited for women with political ambition 30 years ago. Yes, she could have tried to pursue a political career, but that would have been extremely difficult and would not necessarily have been a successful journey. Women had to make very different choices then than are available to us now. Many women during that time chose to "play political wife" and work in tandem with their husbands because that was the only way they could realistically expect to have real impact on politics and public policy.

[Skinner]

66. I think you hit an important point.

And certainly plausible in the case of Hillary Clinton. I chose to sidestep it by avoiding the use of the word "choice" in my response.

[FrenchieCat]

31. But being a superstar doesn't equate you being able to do the job day one

better than anyone else. That's the point you see, she touts her experience as being "better"...and that she can get the job "done". That's fine for her to say, but in real life, a lot of her experience is really pillow talk, if we can be frank. She had no NS security clearance. She sat in no NS meetings. So when she talks about terrorists and her being able to make us "safer" than others running, what experience does she have that she referring to? Sitting in a committee? Surrounding herself with others who have direct experience? I would say that she certainly can "say" that, but the others can claim that type of experience too. Guiliani was the Mayor of NY, so does that mean that he has a lot of experience fighting Terrorists too? So the question remains, what makes her more ready from day one?

[Skinner]

67. I was answering the question in the OP.

"Could Hillary be President without Bill?" I think the answer is clearly yes.

Whether she is the most qualified candidate is another topic entirely.

[Lucinda]

42. Yup.

[sandnsea]

55. She can send him home today

She ought to be able to stand up and win the Presidency on her own. It's to her benefit to win the nomination on her own because the Republicans aren't going to let her get away with riding on Bill's coat tails in the GE. I realize women make choices that enable husbands to achieve their goals and I don't hold that against her. But at some point she has to stop depending on Bill if she really wants to claim this Presidency as her own. She won't win unless she does. She needs to send Bill home. Ann Lewis is a hell of an attack dog, let her out there.

[Skinner]

68. But why on earth would she do that?

Like all the candidates, her job right now is to win the nomination. Sure, she could win the presidency without Bill's help. But why on earth would she voluntarily decide not to use the one advantage she has that nobody else does? Her campaign uses Bill because apparently they have concluded that he helps more than he hurts.

[sandnsea]

75. Because we're electing her, not Bill

If she can't win it on her own, then the OP is right and it's a fair criticism. In NH, 58% of her voters said they'd rather vote for Bill than her. It's legitimate for opponents to point it out and ask who is the real candidate and would we think Laura Bush is ready to be President if she were running.

[hedgehog]

58. Who forced her "to put her ambitions on hold and play the political wife for

two decades"? Wasn't that her choice? Coulda, woulda, shoulda.....

[Skinner]

69. That's not the issue here.

The question was "Could Hillary be President without Bill?" I think the answer is yes.

[oasis]

20. Oprah planted those delusions of granduer in Obama's head. He wasn't

really ready, but that didn't matter to Oprah as long as she got a shot at being a "kingmaker".:puke:

[JVS]

25. Are you being serious?

[oasis]

56. Obama's convinced me that he was not driven by a longtime personal ambition.

Most likely he was spurred on by one of Oprah's flights of fancy.

[loveangelc]

27. of course she coulnt. thats why she's decided to stay with him after

he's had affair after affair.

[EffieBlack]

33. Wow - we have one of Hillary's confidantes right here on DU

How nice to hear the insights of someone who has first hand knowledge of how Hillary's feelings and motivations!

What else did she tell you?!

[NastyRiffraff]

29. Could Barack be President without Michelle?

Could John be President without Elizabeth?

Just to put into context. Somehow, a wife is never considered as someone who is vital to a man's experience.

I'm sick of hearing about how Bill will "really run the country" if Hillary is elected. Some people just take that as a given, as if it's impossible for a woman...any woman...to be president in her own right.

[EffieBlack]

37. Could Bill have been president without Hillary?

Of course not -

But, that's different, isn't it?

When a man relies greatly upon his wife in his career, he is a great guy who is willing to share his success with his spouse. On the other hand, when a woman relies upon her husband's support in HER career, she is callously using him for her own personal ambition.

get it?

[LittleBlue]

40. Well, I wasn't speaking from the personal support aspect.

It was more the political connections/association aspect. Michelle is a community leader, but unknown outside her area.

[hedgehog]

60. For a lot of people, Hillary would be listed as First Woman President

with an asterisk.....

[rpannier]

32. I didn't know Chris Mathews posted here at DU

Now I know.

[angie_love]

36. ..

I don't know how any woman would take such abuse and stay married to someone who cheated on her left and right. I would've divorced his ass long ago, but hey I'm a strong woman who doesn't take that shit.

[Little Star]

71. You can't know that until you actually have it happen to you.

[Cha]

47. Actually, you still don't know.

[jlake]

34. Sexist. Oprah & Michelle.

[LittleBlue]

43. Not sexist, and your parallels are incorrect

Michelle is not a former President. Oprah did not get involved until after Obama began running.

[jlake]

51. I think it is sexist, and I am not sure if your second point is accurate.

Additionally, I think Hillary would have appeared on the national stage with or without Bill.

[LittleBlue]

53. Well, that is your belief. You could have just said that

instead of trotting out the sexist card. Sexist would be: she wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Bill. That is not correct. Most likely she would have been partner at a lucrative law firm without Bill. My post only goes to the question of high office.

[LulaMay]

35. Could YOU ask a more SEXIST 'question'?

[jzodda]

44. Just discovered the ability to hide threads and this will be my first

:D

[robbedvoter]

49. Would Obama need to divorce/leave his family to prove he can do it alone?

I just watched the Big Dog talk. I can see why the Great Communicator Jr would be worried.

[Jim Sagle]

54. Yeah, I guess she should just get back in the kitchen and bake some cookies.

:puke:

[Skittles]

62. who do these uppity wimmin think they are?

running for president.....THE NERVE

[ClericJohnPreston]

64. And the Obama Band played on

even though only their followers could hear it.

Must be the KOOL-AID!:beer:

[ellacott]

70. I don't think she could become President without Bill

There is no doubt that she is an accomplished woman but the manyof people who are supporting her are supporting her because of Bill. They cite the accomplishments of his Presidency and there is some loyalty to Bill connected to many endorsements she's received. She's was campaigning on gettting two for the price of one.

I believe she could have had a successful political career but I don't think she could be where she is today without Bill.

[shayes51]

73. I think Obama should use this for his slogan.

It would sure help my candidate!

[Adelante]

74. Yes, she could

She is very accomplished and has sufficient experience to be president. Could she run for president on her own record instead of his? Yes, she could. And she should. I have no problem with her husband supporting her and her record as a campaign spouse. I do have a problem with her running behind his pants as a candidate. I do have a problem with him running against her opponents. She is the candidate. He is the leader of the Democratic Party, of all Democrats. He has a responsibility to show restraint and certainly not attack other candidates. If she wants to be the first woman president, she has a responsibility to run as an independent woman. She has a responsibility as a Democrat to run as an individual candidate for office: Two Clintons should not be one candidate in anything like a fair election.

[suston96]

76. All these discussions about Hillary Clinton's dependence on her husband....?

...let me mention that old phrase: hell hath no fury...like millions of women banding together for one of their own. That is what is happening.

Tell them that they are where they are because of their "husbands" or other men. Do so at the risk of hellfire!

Nominate Hillary Clinton, and they will come! They will come because they want to elect one of their own as the first woman President. The time has come.

Yes, they will come! They will vote for her.

[zulchzulu]

77. Hillary would be a lobbyist for Raytheon if it wasn't for Bill n/t