DEBATE THREAD # 2

[dweller]

continue here....thanks.

dp

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. Shartpon asks if Bush's excuse for 911 is "Be glad you're alive"

Sharpton is awesome!!!!

Dennis "The 911 Commission can't get information from the White House"

[leyton]

24. Heh heh.

Yeah, somebody should have pointed out that the US didn't become unsafe on 9/11. We were unsafe before that and probably still are, and the only major attack happened to be on Sept. 11. Thus Bush's record is not particularly good.

[Zynx]

2. I have to say, the moderators are terrible and it has clearly aggrevated

the candidates.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. the sniveling corporate media whores are disgusting as usual

no surprise here

[Kathy in Cambridge]

8. They are so biased-such Bush Apologists

makes me wanna :puke:

[Mobius]

10. Sharpton going after 9 11

On 9/11, Sharpton again has the most pointed response. While others are afraid to credit Bush for preventing a second attack on American soil, Sharpton notes that it was under Bush that 9/11 occurred in the first place.

[loudnclear]

47. Why couldn't one of them except DK say we are less safe?

We are damn lucky that nothing else has happened...YET. But I believe it is because we are on THEIR time table and not ours. How long was is between WTC attacks? There haven't been any more attacks because the enemy hasn't attempted any more attacks. It took a long, long time to put 9/11 together and they are known for their patientence.

[onecitizen]

16. Exactly...........

why do they(the candidates) even subject themselves to this drool? They ought to refuse the invitation to "debate". When I saw the woman's name was Bumiller I had a cow!! They should have said "sorry". "get someone who is objective and I will consider the invitation".

Do these moderators think they are making a name for themselves?

[never cry wolf]

3. What a bullshit question, likeability??

whistleass is likeable?? since when??

[democratreformed]

5. Does he have enough ELVIS??? Good God!

[berner59]

7. enough Elvis?????

What crap question is that???? Oh Dan - hang it up!!! Edwards is answering this great - he's saying that the american people aren't stupid like Rather is suggesting...go John!!

[Jawja]

6. Oh, Dennis

starts to talk about Bush* and the 9-11 Commission, so now she has to ask Kerry about "what he's learned about campaigning from Edwards..."

:puke:

Can't have the candidates pointing out that Bush* doesn't want an investigation into his failure on 9-11. Now Rather has to point out it is a debate between the candidates for the nomination, just like Larry King did on CNN.

They don't really want to discuss issues. They want to get the candidates bashing each other. I'm going to let them hear about this after this is over, too.

[plurality]

9. who else is tired that our primary is now American Idol?

'likability' :wtf:

When are they going to ask Kerry, and Edwards to break out in accapella? This shit is fucking ridiculous.

And I just love how they only talk to Kerry and Edwards. Granted I turned in halfway through, but did Dennis or Al ever get asked a direct question or did they have to interrupt for every word they got?

[Jawja]

12. Here it COMES!!!

Gay Marriage!! Got to get that question in. I knew it was coming.

[Mobius]

13. kerry on gay marriage

matter of rights not terminology

[leyton]

22. Why do the moderators keep asking him about his personal views?

Kerry shouldn't have to defend his own religious views in these debates. They should stick to his policies and politics.

[democratreformed]

11. I KNEW IT!!!! I knew they were fixing to bring up gay marriage.

[Jawja]

14. And Kerry

is much more prepared for his answer this time, too. Now let's see how much the moderators push this issue.

[twilight]

15. Absolutely disgusting - Edwards' "lowly background" WTF!

"Edwards is flubbing the very direct question about whether his supporters understand how rich he is. Even Dennis Kucinich felt the need to jump in and defend him! Once again, Sharpton was able to put it in a broader context -- that there are more than two Americas, that Edwards may have been able to create wealth from his lowly background, but many people in America are not given that opportunity, because of race or other barriers.? "

This is actually printed on the New York Times site showing it live! Can you believe this? EDWARDS LOWLY BACKGROUND!

Absolutely disgusting!

As usual, Dennis Kucininch is being ignored; Al Sharpton is pissed, not that I blame him, and this whole race is simply Kerry/Edwards.

I am very discouraged as I type and watch this. It is not being carried on my local television stations either.

Shame! This IS the worst debate yet!

:dem: :kick:

[democratreformed]

17. He even used that line to answer the question about "religiosity" and

spirituality.

[Jawja]

18. They want to focus on Kerry

on the Gay Marriage issue because they think he is vulnerable on it, for some reason. I think that falls in with the "Liberal from Mass." meme.

See, the moderators really want to talk about this issue. Let's see how long the candidates put up with it after they answer the first couple of questions.

on edit: good for Dan Rather. He moved on. Much to my surprise, I must say.

[Rose Siding]

26. Rather will be there for bushco if he's needed

He co-owns a ranch in NM with Rumsfeld. He's in the loop.

[revcarol]

60. Ever since he asked Clinton a "Monica" question when it looked like

major Middle East progress in a press conference with Israeli and Palestinian leaders there, I never doubted which "side" he was on.

[Zynx]

21. The NY Times is not my sort of liberal. They are elitist and sickening.

[Mobius]

19. Im sick of hearing Edwards say "I agree with Sen. Kerry"

:eyes:

[Clark4Prez]

20. I'm not, Edwards is admitting

that he isn't that different from Kerry. Except of course, that Kerry was won more elections.

[Jawja]

23. Another "religious"

question. Geesh.


on edit: Great answer from Edwards! Quoting Lincoln about "us being on God's side."

[ikojo]

31. Perhaps Edwards learned that from Al Gore in 2000 when

he said "I agree" with Bush approx. 32 times in ONE debate.

[Mobius]

25. IS GOD ON AMERICA'S SIDE????

Is she fucking serious????What the hell kind of final debate question is that???

[Jawja]

28. Well, CBS

is going to hear from me. I would like to know why they pick "journalists" that are obviously hostile to the candidates.

[bigtree]

29. John Edwards kicked the shit out of that with his Lincoln quote

right off the top of his head. Great answer! Are we on God's side.

[mac2]

52. Yes..it was great. That was from Gore Vidal's book called Lincoln

Read it if you can. I'm sure it's in the library.

The other book by Vidal is called 1876. It's the 100 year anniversary time of our country. It about our one of the most corrupt times in our history...before now.

There was a Presidential election that was bought by Hayes. Both candidates were into vote buying, etc. Hayes won by one vote in a strange mix of government officials. Like the Gore election. Think they got the idea from this book?

It reminded me of how corrupt our country can get even with a legal system and Constitution. We are there now..stealing elections, government money, fraud, etc.

Lincoln was pretty upset with RWers trying to rule government then also. He hated their arrogance and self-righteousness.

It has been a constant struggle to keep our democracy against religious influence. Giving them tax exempt status was the biggest mistake. They got too much money to pay off politicians.

We have always had corrupt elections...time to end that before it destroys us. I'm not sure we ever had a President that didn't care about his country at all like Bush.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

32. Liberals can't answer that question because they don't know what it means

Liberals only have one definition of "God" - "a metaphysical personality or higher power" or somesuch. That's not the way most Americans use it.

They may has well asked "Is History on American's Side" but purposefully tripped up liberals because they refuse to use God in the common sense of the word.

[mac2]

55. What?

Many liberals know about God. How can you talk about how they feel?

God shouldn't be part of politics or government should it? Even Jesus said, not.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

63. irrelevant

This is similar to when they asked Dean "Should the President lie to the American people?". The correct answer isn't a laundry list of specific national security situations that theoretically might require witholding the truth from the public. The correct answer is: "It's never acceptable to lie to the American people."

Edwards answered the question correctly: "We don't say God is on our side, we pray that we are on his."

If you say "but, but, why should God be on any one country's side. God doesn't exist anyway! Religion has no place in politics!" you're missing the point, and don't understand what the question means.

Who decides what it means? The people you want voting for you.

[seaglass]

27. Is God on America's side?

I'm stunned.

[twilight]

30. I am sickened

God is not on America's side. God doesn't CHOOSE SIDES!!!!

What a ^&%#@! disgrace!

Was this a debate or a free for all that meant absolutely nothing?

I am ashamed of the way Sharpton and Kucinich have again be marginalized. Kerry/Edwards - IS THERE REALLY A DIFFERENCE?

IMO no there is not!

I truly feel sorry for both Sharpton and Kucinich.

:dem:

[ramapo]

34. Why would God be on America's "side"

That would imply that God thinks less of everybody else in the world.

Talk about arrogance. I hate how Americans use religion as a justification for their arrogance.

Why would, or should, God have any more concern for an American then he does for a Russian, Chinese, or a North Korean? It just boggles my mind.

[Guava Jelly]

35. like god exist in the first place

I am sick of these superstitions.

[ramapo]

40. I gave them the benefit of the doubt

I agree with you but that's an unpopular opinion.

Assuming the existence of God and all that entails, it seems to me to be absolutely counter to what God would want to assume that you are any better in God's eyes than the next person.

Almost as bad as when God is trivialized in supporting one sports team over another.

[mac2]

48. I agree..Go Bills

[mac2]

37. I'm angry that they would use God for a political debate.

[Jawja]

39. My email to CBS

"I regard CBS as my priority network when it comes to news coverage and news events. I am particularly fond of Dan Rather, who is always fair and balanced (to borrow a term) in his commentary and perspective.

However, I must take exception to this morning's Democratic Primary Debate. It would be nice if at least ONE of the "journalists" invited to question the candidates would not be already hostile to a Democratic candidacy! This was by far one of the worst "debates" of this Primary season. Only Judy Woodruff's moderation on CNN was worst. The tone of the questioners to the positions taken by Kerry and Edwards on issues in opposition to George W. Bush was more like bashing than asking for honest debate; and some of the choices of questions, like the snotty one to Edwards about his EARNED wealth and the inappropriate "is God on our side?"

The one positive I came away about this morning was that Kucinich and Sharpton refused to be ignored as their stands on certain issues are valuable to the Democratic Party as a whole and that all candidates were united in keeping the debate focused on issues that matter to the voters instead of letting the moderators keep them going round and round on the "are you a liberal" crap.

I can at least thank Dan Rather and CBS for allowing our candidates to show their resolve in sticking to the issues and focusing on the defeat of George W. Bush in November."

[spooky3]

53. Excellent email! (Although I think L. King was worse than Woodruff!)

Great job, Jawja, and you were so polite, they ought to listen to you.

[Jawja]

70. Thanks

spooky3 :hi:

[mvd]

54. Good letter

That is the way to have the most impact.

[revcarol]

33. Only only question: was ANYTHING substantive discussed at this

debate?

OK,TWO: DID THIS DEBATE EDUCATE VOTERS IN any WAY?

[ramapo]

36. No and No

Some really bad questions and a chaotic format.

[loudnclear]

49. Yes, DK and Sharpton hit all the nails on the head.

Problem is, the media does not want to deal with straigt answers and the facts. They want to help Bush.

[mac2]

45. Yes....

They talked about how they would talk with Korea instead of threatening them.

They said, they (Bush administration) shouldn't brag they kept us safe since 9/11. Because, they allowed 9/11 to happen in the first place. It was their watch. They have refused to investigate it...therefore...placing us under threat because, we don't really know what, who, why, and if it will happen again.

Dennis spoke about the difference between a protective fence and a wall in ones country...about peace for both. All the others supported one sided foreign policy for Israel...continue the cycle as far as I can understand.

Kerry & Edwards don't support religious acceptance of "marriage" but government rights same as marriage. Sharpton and Kucinich all rights and equal for all...call it what you want.

All agree, everyone should have full civil rights in our society.

What they should have said, was people who want to "marry" can under the government civil union (equal rights,etc.). It is up to the religious organizations what they prefer to believe regarding "marriage". It should be the law for all states...not an amendment requiring they do so. It is a civil right without an amendment.

People who don't have cable learned a lot today. The poor in the country who can't afford cable or live too far from service got an ear full. They didn't see the debates on FOX, CNN, etc.

[1songbird]

38. The reporters were about as bad as bad could get.

They were so disrespectful to the candidates particularly to Sharpton and Kucinich. The American media is a pathetic joke.

[zulchzulu]

41. Disburbingly crappy debate with lousy web stream

CBS does not know how to do a live webcast. The frame rate was too high, the sound bit depth was too high... I have a quick DSL connection and it blew chunks. There were some lucky moments when a good 10 seconds went by without the feed choking. A lower frame rate and sound bit depth lays less weight on the pipe, thus making the feed somewhat watchable.

It was probably also due to too many CBS affiliates who would rather show infomercials on hair removal products that the traffic from interested people made the stream even worse.

Then there were the questions. Elvis? God on our side? Who was the bimbo reporter and the obvious dittohead guy? It was a New York interview with the reporters interrupting those that were asked a question. As Cuomo said, it was a typical New York debate: a little unruly and a little disorganized.

What a disappointment.

[La_Serpiente]

42. this one is working pretty well

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/politics/20040227_NY_DEBATE/index.html

[zulchzulu]

43. Thanks, that is better

The CBS server must be an old Atari 'puter.

[AVID]

44. Debate Headline should read . . .

CBS offers hostile Rubuglican staffers to interrogate two Presidential candidates, ignore the two that they feel are no threat, and shape the election as a threat to an American GOD, American safety, and the perfection of the b* regime

[mac2]

46. NO..It should read.......

Democrats hold together on the real issues that could bring down Bush.

[AVID]

50. I like that better

[mvd]

51. I didn't even see this debate and I'm seething..

..from hearing this. Either Sharpton or Kucinich should have walked off IMO and told them that this isn't a debate - it's a one-sided bash. And McAuliffe should say we won't be treated that way this time without calling them on it. CBS is definitely hearing from me. First the change in The Reagans, then not showing the MoveOn ad, and now this.

[mac2]

56. Don't be angry.....

Dennis is very well.

Don't believe some of these posts. See for yourself if it is to be re-run..that's all you should ask.

[mvd]

58. But many of the posts can't be ignored

I'm still angry.

[Woodstock]

66. Don't forget, they are also showing Bush's medicare propaganda ads

paid for with our dime

[Donna Zen]

57. Viacom

is over the ownership limit.

Does anyone need a map?

Interesting about Rather and Rummy's Ranch. Thanks I didn't know.

IIRC, McAuliffe has niffty little DNC fundraisers after these media nightmares. Is this true or am I just disgusted?

Agreed__nothing was worse than Judy in the Ruby Suit. Glad I no longer ever watch her, and glad I missed this debate.

[diamondsoul]

59. I watched the wihole thing, yelling all the while.

But in all honesty, I think the whole thing would have been much better if they'd had Dan Rather handling the entire debate alone. He's got a history of journalism with some integrity, and I think his interviews have been the best available to the American viewers since we lost Cronkite.

I absolutely LOVED his one on one with Hussein before the invasion. Rather was stunningly fair, polite and yet still managed to ask some tough questions without being tossed out on his ear. He could have conducted the same kind of thing in this debate if he hadn't had the other two rude, ignorant twits asking questions over him, the candidates and each other.

[seaglass]

61. Yes, I would have preferred just Rather, it was Bumiller

who was obnoxious. She wasn't listening, she was rude, she had her agenda and that was that.

[mvd]

62. Yes, I still think Rather has integrity

Would he be the reason for the other ones being there, I wonder? CBS as been bending too far for the Repukes.

[MuseRider]

65. I agree

I swore after the CNN debate that I would never watch another, I was livid with Larry King and the absolute disrespect he showed Sharpton and most especially Kucinich. When I saw that Dan Rather was doing this one I decided to watch thinking that he would be fair and ask good questions. I think it would have been much more equitable and substantive if he had done it alone. What we got was more of the same bullshit we have been hearing but at least Sharpton and Kucinich stuck up for themseves and were able to get in to some of the discussion. It is a shame and a total sham that they should have to do that while still trying to run real campaigns, and contrary to a lot of belief around here Kucinich, I can't speak for Sharpton, is absolutely running a substantial campaign.

[Protagoras]

69. Agreed, Rather would have done much better

if he had just been there by himself.

[mvd]

64. For the record..

I don't expect our candidates to be treated with kid gloves. But it seems like most of the debates have been the debaters against the moderators. Bush didn't even get a normal questioning.

[Seldona]

67. What was up with not answering the 'are you a liberal'

question?

Both Kerry and Edwards refused to do it.

Even our own candidates don't want the liberal label. And we founded this damn country.

That really pisses me off.

And if I hear millworker from Edwards one more time I just might scream. Isn't anyone else getting sick of that? Sheesh give it a rest.

Again I trought Sharpton did the best, and said what I would have said. Especialy concerning 9/11.

Kunisch is so awesome. He took that liberal question and answered it proudly.

I have to say, that Kerry and Edwards dodging of that question really, really bothers me.

Don't know why just yet, but it was the biggest thing I walked away from this debate with.

[Protagoras]

68. This was profoundly disappointing to me

If you don't want to let Bush use the term then define it...don't run the hell away from it John!

[seaglass]

72. Because they didn't want to be labeled and Kerry pointed

out exactly why when he spoke of the ratings by the National Journal and the votes they designated as liberal; he also described why Bush was not conservative.

I thought his answer was great.

[mac2]

73. Me too.

[MrPeepers]

71. Is the Debate going to be re-run?

I missed it :(

Peepers

[citizen snips]

74. You can watch the whole debate at this site. . .

:)

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/partners/nyt/webcast.html

[vanzetti77]

75. I checked out the link...

...and in addition to the entire debate, there are 7 or 8 brief snippets also available.

Funny thing is, all of the files open up fine -- except, of course, for the one and only Kucinich clip.

Typical.