Epiphany: Kerry, Nader and Gore

[Capn Sunshine]

Sometimes it takes a village. Sometimes it takes an idiot. Sometimes, you have to talk with people outside your own network to get an outside view of what you rail against or for.

Thus it was I was thinking about the election of 2000, Ralph Nader, and the ultimate theft; which I blame on a poorly run campaign, albeit assisted by Ralph Nader in ONE IMPORTANT ASPECT:

Ralph insists the candidates are so alike, you may as well not vote.
He did in 2000, and garnered enough votes to swing things *'s way. But moreover, there's the unseen damage. Who knows how many thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, stayed home in disgust at carefully constructed premise that there was no difference between the candidates? If I was Karl Rove, I couldn't possibly dream up a better scenario to keep principled progressives, independents, greens, you name it, HOME during a critical vote against a weak republican candidate than by fomenting disgust with the democrats going with a "Safe" choice who ultimately, was beholden to the DLC and Washington DC power groups.

Maybe , if there are any conspiracies afoot, it is this one. I know I for one am disgusted by the putative choice of Kerry as the candidate. But this goes more to my dismay that the electorate does not understand the nuances of progressivism, and the flavors of candidacies such as Howard Deans, Wesley Clark's,CMB.s Al Sharpton's' and Dennis Kucinich's and relies on sound bites to make up their mind, and reassure them that all this change these crazy folk are rabble-rousing about won't affect if CBS broadcasts "Survivor" after all. But maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the one who's been snookered by a manipulative media machine. After all, there's more at stake for the dark and evil forces than ever before. Why wouldn't they create a grand calliope campaign that is designed for thinking individuals who know damn well what the left and right wings are up to , and ultimately becomes so enraged by the duplicity of the perceived establishment , this time the democratic flavor,(ultimately known to us that they care not who wins as long as THEY remain in control)that they forgo the vote or cast theirs with the "anti establishment" candidate?

Oh, just fucking perfect. They are playing us. We are heading for the exits in disgust just as they wish.

Because, let's face it: no thinking person can see the * administration's trail of death and havoc, looting and destruction on a scale heretofore unseen in Western civilization and contrast this with an imagined Al Gore presidency and conclude there would have been no difference. How anyone could postulate that there is/was no difference is just ridiculous.

Yet that is what Nader suggests , AGAIN ,and suddenly, I noticed something. He did this to GORE. He did this to GORE!!

It's putting Kerry's candidacy in a new light for me.

I'm nobody's fool, and I'm nobody's tool.
Can't say the same about many politicians.

:headbang:ABB, baby.:headbang:

[cally]

1. Yes!

My belief all along. While I may support many of Nader's positions we're being played by his candidacy IMHO. The left is being taken.

[Eric J in MN]

2. Are you saying that Kerry would be much better than Bush?

Are you saying that Kerry would be much better than Bush?

If so, why do you have a picture of Tweedledum and Tweedledee in your post?

[Capn Sunshine]

3. I guess you don't know what ABB means

BTW The one on the left is Edwards.

[jpgray]

4. Because Tweedledum turned into a fucking psycopath when he got in office

Must have been the giant crow.

:D

DK04

[Capn Sunshine]

6. Eh, I took it out

In light of the confusion over ham sandwich.

[union_maid]

5. Frankly, Nader is the ONLY thing Rove has going for him

Well that and gay marriage. Kerry's right when he says they've got nothing. They've done nothing for the American people and it's becoming too evident to ignore. Unfortunately for them, this election is primarily about the Bush presidency and we all know that's been a...say it with me...miserable failure!

[Capn Sunshine]

7. Nothing...except the giant media machine

we've already seen it shape things up thus far......

[slinkerwink]

9. exactly....

[nightperson]

8. Have most people here

seen this old article on Nader and "heightening the contradictions": http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,393674,00.html :shrug: ?

[corporatewhore]

10. as i have said before umhaider not nader showed me there aint that much

difference http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=389828&mesg_id=389828

[Capn Sunshine]

11. I can't believe you think President Gore would have been exactly the same

Is that what you mean? Surely you are kidding.

[VeniceBeat]

12. ABB Indeed.

Bear in mind I've got Chomsky's performance before the United Nations Correspondent's Association on CSPAN in the background as I write this in the wee hours in Los Angeles.

Pragmatically, a vote for anyone but the ultimate nominee of the Democratic Party is heartfelt Quioticism. Kerry or Edwards, whomever it may be, is really the only choice.

You suggest that the only solution to the frustration of not having a candidate to represent their point of view is for "principled progressives, independents, greens, you name it, HOME during a critical vote against a weak republican candidate."

Certainly not voting is no solution at all.

In 2000, the idea of a Neo-Bull Moose Party was very appealing. It seemed as if Nader could capture the imagination of every Democrat and sweep to poetic victory. After all, how could any Democrat repudiate justice and cooperation? Nader spoke to our idealism.

Now is not the time for idealism. We must continue to dream the Impossible Dream but we must first rid the world of the scourge of the Bush Administration.

It will be up to the next Democratic President to reignite the hope that the Republicans have spent 30 years trying to snuff out.

I intuit that Edwards is the best vessel with which to accomplish this. Although the Sam Waterston character on Law and Order is essentially conservative, as Edwards seems to be for me, you see, in the glimmer of Edward's eyes, a desire that he wants to do the right thing in the context of history and with sensitivity to the plight of the common citizen of the world.

Of course, maybe he's just the son of a goddam millworker and will whore himself to his corporate mastersm regardless of what he might say during the campaign.

[zoeyfong]

15. Now is *exactly* the time for idealism. It's not all Bush's fault, you

know. Sure, it is simpler and more emotionally satisfying to blame the present state of affairs on one man, so he can then be sent away and the scourge on this country can be completely and finally removed. Many also wanted to believe that WW2 was all Hitler's fault, because the truth would implicate far too many people. The unpleasant truth is that our dem representatives have been inexcusably complicit in the fall of this nation over the last three years in particular, and for quite a few years before that, generally. The rallying cry of 'anybody but the republican' is no longer sufficient reason to vote democrat.

[ludwigb]

17. So withholding your vote is the solution?

The GOP and not the Democrats hold the burden of leadership, and ultimately the responsibility for the way things have gone. If Gore was president instead of Bush, we wouldn't have the war, the tax cuts, the Ashcroft inquistions, and the alienation of the world.

Voting does make a difference. You know it, I know it, and to continue to deny it is pure equivocation.

[CWebster]

13. The botuxed one consistantly disappoints

Remarks he has made on subjects from Israel to Labor to Gay marriage might as well be coming from a Republican think tank--because the official line is the same centrist line, skewed Right. Kerry does little more than uphold that line, that is why he hasn't got a hell of a lot to face off against Bush with. He is an inside player from a system sharing similar interests and an increasing common outlook. So, we are subjected to the deafening refrain to oust Bush only to replace him with the candidate selected by the same system who supported Bush. It is little more than a change of image, the illusion of change, real change will not be tolerated.

Gore shifted his outlook after he was out of the game. Considering Clinton's ongoing approach to Iraq, would there have been any expectations of an alternative view from Gore?

Nader is closer to the truth, Bush should be impeached, if only for starters. Even our progressive politicians won't touch that reality, and under Kerry these things will simply be dismissed, since he himself is in no position to accuse anyone else.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. The Botox Comment Is Only The Beginning Of Your Silliness

It is funny because you choose three subjects where Kerry is particularly strong. Kerry - like Edward Said and other Palestinian progressives - calls for parallel concessions (unlike Dean, for instance); his record on the right to organize is sterling; and he has a long, long record of pushing further than anyone else in the Senate for gay rights.

You write that we would remove Bush "only to replace him with the candidate selected by the same system who supported Bush. It is little more than a change of image, the illusion of change, real change will not be tolerated."

This is the same sort of Rage Against The Machine ranting that is so vague as to be meaningless. Not to mention that you ignore Kerry's stand on issues like health care, renewable energy, consumer's rights, CAFE standards, superfunds, campaign finance reform, and on and on.

Kerry would be the President furthest to the Left since FDR. Think about that when he's appointing Supreme Court Justices.

Rage on!

[zoeyfong]

14. Hard to say what gore would've done; but we know what the dem congress did

and it was a disgrace.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. Democrats made it VERY easy for Nader to say that

When Nader says there is "no difference" between Democrats and Republicans, he's being a politician. He means the same thing that Kerry does when he says he'll "reform Nafta". Rhetorical flourishes!