Some people are starting to figure Dean out

[Mairead]

[stickdog]

1. Welcome to the circular firing squad.

If Dean was to become President, our very pundocracy would be placed in jeopardy!

[worldgonekrazy]

61. Can I shoot myself in the foot too?

I'm thinking two pistols fired simultaneously. That way we can really get the job done.

[mouse7]

2. Howard Dean revealed as THE GREEN GOBLIN!

Howard Dean throws Goblin-bombs at helpless boards of directors. Howard Dean dangles cablecars full of schoolchildren over the Hudson River and forces you to choose to vote for him. Howard Dean will attack YOUR ELDERLY RELATIVES!

Vote Kucinich! Kucinich hates armored villians on flying sleds!

[moz4prez]

3. thanks for that jab at Clark!

the poster supports Kucinich. but you just couldn't resist, could you? because you know Dean pales in comparison to Kucinich?????????

Vote Kucinich! He won't push ANY of your SEXXXY blonde girlfriends off the Brooklyn Bridge!

funny post, though :)

[mouse7]

5. Okay, I'll change it

My little campaign has generally featured the average Clark supporter attack piece around here, but I'll set you right up. Don't want to be accused of being unfair.

[Turkw]

21. So when are you going to feature the average Dean supporter attack?

or does your fairness only go so far?

[mouse7]

28. The average attack OF Dean supporters, you mean.

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. suggestion for a dean campaign song

"Lie to me....i promise i'll believe" Sheryl Crow

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. oh dear,,,i guess i should aspire to such rhetorical heights as:

"Howard Dean surrendered his soul to evil because of a stupid ring. Howard Dean is nothing but a horrible shell of a being who chases down creatures weaker than him for all their possessions!"

"Howard Dean throws Goblin-bombs at helpless boards of directors. Howard Dean dangles cablecars full of schoolchildren over the Hudson River and forces you to choose to vote for him. Howard Dean will attack YOUR ELDERLY RELATIVES!"


like you? we all do what we do best....

[HFishbine]

46. "we all do what we do best...."

But some of us sell ourselves short.

[no name no slogan]

49. Hello kettle, this is the pot. You are black.

You don't add anything positive to the discussion.

Oh, but your first post on this thread added SO MUCH to it, right?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Howard Dean is not the be-all, end-all savior of the Democratic Party. He's just another governor from a small state who wants to lead the party in the next presidential election-- like Clinton, Dukakis, Carter, and many others who came before him.

Howard Dean does not walk on water. Nor does he resurrect the dead. Governor Dean has not been known to turn water into wine, nor has he fed thousands of his disciples with a few loaves and fishes. It is also highly unlikely that he will die on a cross and be resurrected after three days. It is also highly unlikely that he will be taken into heaven to sit at the right-hand side of God-- nor will he return at the end of times with Joe Trippi to lead the forces of Good at the Battle of Armageddon against BushCo and Satan.

The media honeymoon with Dean is over, and you'd better get used to him getting taken to the woodshed by the press. Because it's going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better.

[okieinpain]

50. dean supporter here, and i agree with this post

.

[burning bush]

8. I read the map, I showed you how...

when will you acknowledge that we can win without the south?

Blatant Hint - take the states that Gore won, add Nevada and New Hampshire to get a 50/50 EC split, then add Ohio, or Arizona, or Colorado for an easy Blue win - without any southern states.

Time to change your sig....

[markus]

15. The problem with this map is Florida

It awards Florida to Bush. Bush lost Florida last time, and he will lose it again.

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. i'm sorry, i'm looking for real info, not a list of states that are in play

in play. anyone can lay out a couple states and say_if_we win these we are golden. i want to hear what issues are in play in those states that we can exploit or will get screwed on.

for instance, i'm afraid PA will slip because our dem gov won on, in part on property tax relief. due to pubbie interference, that hasn't happened. in fact, what has happened in an increase in the state income tax instead.

now i take that local info and ask myself if dean's stance on repealing all of the tax reductions will, when combined with our own tax issues, go over well or bomb here.

then i look at the highest reliability of dem voters and see a good proportion of AA voters. since dean has yet to sway many black people to his side, i'm wondering if there will be sufficient minority support in the dem concentrations in philly and pittsburgh to counter the vaste expanse of pubbieland that lies between the two.

now...if you can share that type of localized info, hopefully with better news, about the states on your list, i will be eternally grateful.

[HFishbine]

39. Ease your fears about PA. Dean keeps Bush under 50% (poll)

Dean is the only dem candidate who keeps Bush under 50% in a head-to-head PA poll. Bush 49%, Dean 43%. He also leads the field of dem contenders in PA:

Dean 28%
Lieberman 17%
Gephardt 10%
Clark 9%
Kerry 7%
Edwards 4%
Sharpton 3%
Moseley-Braun 3%
Kucinich 1%

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x9463.xml

[bearfartinthewoods]

41. unless they changed the rules Bush 49%, Dean 43% means bush wins

and that is an old poll iirc. if i had 100 bucks to spare, i'd subscribe to the pollingreport.com to have access to current state polls.

anyone who's flush right now and interested in joining? you couldn't cut and paste the info but i can't see how they could keep a subsriber from telling other people about state polls.

[Donna Zen]

47. Thanks for the "on the ground" report from PA

I'm orginally from that state, and had an uneasy feeling about our chances last summer. While there I spent most of my time with core Dem. voters, people who voted for Gore and every Dem who ever ran, and found them bush or leaning bush because they believed that he was a decisive leader. They get the part that the special interest own the guy, and they would move away from him from given a good reason, but they see 911_support the troops_as real and important issues.

WVA was a different story. There was more doubt about the war and bush. In that case however, I was in a college town although hanging with wealthy bush voters who seemed to have changed their minds. Again, they had not crossed over, but were at least looking for a reason to do so.

Maine splits its electoral votes, and I fear the northern district will vote bush. In fact with recent redistricting, I'm rather worried about one of our congress people going down with a weak Democratic candidate.

A recent Gallop poll showed dubya as the most admired male in America. Putting all political realiyt on "mute" will not change the facts.

[bearfartinthewoods]

54. thank you for the first person report..

all of except the next to the last sentence.

although i am a firm believer in your last sentiment ("reality is our friend..it's a flash light that saves us from dead ends"), i really didn't need to see that thing about bush in print...

is that really true? gawwwd....

[edzontar]

16. I wonder when aor if you will ever post anything postive...

OH YES--there are those EDWARDS IS ON (blank) TV show threads.

I am a Dean supporter, but I rather like Edwards and think he could ebenfit from some postive threads.

Just a suggestion.....

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. and my SHARPTON is on and DK and any other time i see something

i think people may be interested in? i agree, i also like Edwards and think he could benfit from some postive threads, as well. but we all do what we do best...eh?

[AP]

17. ...or Sympathy for the Devil

Please allow Joe Trippi to introduce me,
I'm a man of wealth and rolled up sleeves
I've been around for a long long years
But I've got a whole new set of policies

I changed my position on Jesus Christ
I wouldn't lower the poor's tax rates
Made damn sure that Kerry
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around Burlington
When I saw it was a time for a change
I hate all Republicans, although I sound just like one
The Bush twins will scream in vain

I didn't ride a tank
Didn't have a general’s rank
Skied in Aspen when the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee
While Skilling and Lay
Proffitted for a decade
On the markets we made

I shouted out,
You have the power
When after all
It was only for me
(who who, who who)

Let Joe Trippi introduce me
I’m a man of wealth and rolled up sleeves
And I laid traps for real Democrats
So that we all lose before we reach DC

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what’s confusing you
Is just the nature of my game

Just as I say every Democrat is a Republican
But all the Libertarians saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Wellstone
’cause I’m in need of some restraint

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Ignore all your well-learned politics
And I’ll lay your soul to waste, um yeah

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down

Tell me baby, what’s my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what’s my name
I tell you one time, you’re to blame

[oasis]

25. That one was a dandy.

:thumbsup:

[bearfartinthewoods]

27. AP!!!!!! LOL...in fact ROTFLMAO

damn this deserves it's own thread but it would never make it passed the new rules.

YOU RULE AND:yourock: :thumbsup: :evilgrin:

[cryofan]

34. LOL! A most EXCELLENT Filk (eom)

[HFishbine]

38. That's not funny

Okay, a little funny.

[bearfartinthewoods]

55. HF??? a sens of hu, a sense of humor?

see??...i always knew you were not a robot!:toast:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mairead]

9. Sorry, but Wasserman's perception isn't an isolated phenomenon

Had he totally set himself apart (as by, e.g., implying Dean is a paedophile or the Messiah) then I would have called him out as the unique perceiver he would then have been.

But he is certainly not alone in seeing Dean's ...changefulness... so I can't see why 'some' is inappropriate in the caption.

[mouse7]

10. You're right. Dean is evil incarnate. LYNCH HIM!

You guys are ALMOST ALL in favor of lynchings according to your posts last week.

[Mairead]

12. What in heaven's name are you talking about?

[mouse7]

72. All the people who criticised Dean for being anti-Osama lynching

Dean said Osama should get the rights of a criminal defendent, and most everyone said Dean was suddenly a supporter of Osama.

It wasn't one of DU's prettier days.

[Scott Lee]

44. Neither is bigfoot, or seeing angels in taco shells

But it doesn't necessarily substantiate it now, does it.

[Kolesar]

11. Every candidate gets accused of making flippy-floppy

I guess the newspapers finally ran out of Clinton blowjob cartoons to run.

[arewethereyet]

70. every one except Edwards

n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. The fact that there are so many Dean cartoons

and threads about Dean (both pro and con) show he is the front runner and likely the man who will win the nomination. I sincerely hope that if he is the nominee, all Democrats get behind him so we can get rid of Bush. This is what I plan to do-get behind whoever wins the nomination and defeat the Shrub. We must keep that goal always in mind.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

14. how easily

could one come up with a cartoon to make Shrub look like a rambling alcoholic full of bluster but empty of mind?

I think we can all agree that whether Dean is "speaking his mind" or "changing his mind" he has a better mind than George W. Bush JR son of George Herbert "Sky" Walker Bush.

[LuminousX]

20. Some people are figuring Dean out...

Rep. Conyers,
Senator Paul Simon,
V.P. Al Gore....

[HFishbine]

22. A lot of people have figured Dean out

[KittyWampus]

52. If Only You Could Factor Out All The People Who've Abandoned Dean

that figure would have some meaning.

[Nadienne]

53. Excellent point. n/t

[Hep]

24. I also love to let cartoonists do all my thinking for me

But mine is more along the lines of Breathed.

[RetroLounge]

26. Yup, Dean is ALL figured out...

How's your candidate doing these days? Thought so...

[Nadienne]

30. Ahem...

You might be amazed at all the people I've talked to who really, really like a different candidate, but support Dean because he is the perceived front-runner. That is the ONLY reason they support Dean. You know what that smells like to me? Inflated value - like stocks that suddenly plummet, costing people their retirement.

The sad, sick irony is that their fear of making a stand for what they believe in - fear of diluting the strength of the campaign of the front-runner - is what is causing this inflated value. It makes me want to scream.

[oasis]

32. "inflated value" good anology.

[bearfartinthewoods]

57. irrational exuberance!

[Nadienne]

59. then i'll rationalize it

Dean has so much support because he has so much support. This seems to be the prevalent reason for supporting Dean.

Maybe (if you support Dean), you have a different reason, but I'm sure his popularity and "electability" play a factor.

And I have said this before: Kucinich's foundation is a rock. His supporters support him for concrete reasons. Dean's foundation is sand that will wash away in the tide of fickle favor.

[bearfartinthewoods]

69. i agree totally n/t

[cryofan]

33. Yep! Time we pop the overblown Dean balloon!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Throughout the 1990s, Dean’s cuts in state aid to education ($6 million), retirement funds for teachers and state employees ($7 million), health care ($4 million), welfare programs earmarked for the aged, blind and disabled ($2 million), Medicaid benefits ($1.2 million) and more, amounted to roughly $30 million. Dean claimed that the cuts were necessary because the state had no money and was burdened by a $60 million deficit.9
....
Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[hedda_foil]

64. You're actually posting that article from International Socialist Review

AGAIN??????

ROFLMAO

[Hep]

36. Scream if you want

It's a free country. Why would you have a problem with why anyone supports anyone. Isn't it their choice, and shouldn't you respect it, focus on what in YOUR heart, and move on?

[Nadienne]

43. You make a good point

But, it is a free country that governs me and others like me. For now I most heartily protest against the possibility of being represented by someone whose popularity might be based on fear.

Yes, fear. There is no question that Kucinich supporters support Kucinich because they believe in him. But I don't know how many people I've come across who like Kucinich, and yet support someone else who is higher up in the polls. Do we want someone to represent us, or do we want someone who represents our fear?

I know who I want. But I can only speak for myself.

[HFishbine]

37. Well, we could go bottom fishing, I suppose (n/t)

[Nadienne]

51. Who says anyone is bottom-fishing?

Why would you let polls and media dictate your options?

Good thing it's a free country, right?

[redqueen]

42. Inflated stocks

What a perfect analogy. Everyone sees the analysts going ga-ga and throws their money in the pot as well. Maybe this country's addiction to quick-fix, carnival-hyped PR campaigns will wear off sometime soon.

I know exactly how you feel. God knows I want to scream every time I hear someone say they support Dean but would really prefer the policies of Kucinich.

I just hope the nervous nellies that refuse to vote their conscience (even in the primaries! WTF?) don't start griping about how Democrats don't vote the way they expect them to. I hope as the Pentagon budget grows and our social safety net is dismantled, that there aren't any 'but hey, he's the front runner' type people complaining.

[izzie]

29. A new poll. Does DU or FR have the most bad news about Dean?

Give it up he may be our man.

[jonnyblitz]

45. that's what I always wonder to myself. not the DU/FR thing, but

what is going to happen if/when he is the candidate as it looks like he might be. The feelings against him by many are so intense here I just can't see these people turning around the next day to support him once he wins the nomination if he does. Its not so much that they don't like him its the DEGREE. Some people on here I swear do nothing all day but google searchs looking for ANYTHING derogatory to post, trolling right wing sites for info etc. Yes I know Dean supporters do this also but its obvious the people against Dean are a bit more "ambitious" in this regard.

[no name no slogan]

62. It aint over yet-- not by a LOOOONG shot

why should we assume that because he's ahead in the polls today that Dean is the nominee? Back in 1992, Clinton was at <2%. In 1976, Ted Kennedy was the assumed nominee, and Carter was at <2%. In 1988, it was Gary Hart-- no need to go there.

It is MY prerogative, as a citizen of this country, to criticize whoever the hell I want, and for whatever reason. Yes, I'm interested in "party unity", but I'm interested in my freedom of speech FIRST.

Dean is not my candidate. He is not my nominee. I will question and criticize him until he is out of the race-- one way or another.

[cryofan]

31. Love it!! I wonder if cartoonist read my posts here on DU about Dean & VT

That cartoonist MUST have seen the Vermont Dean quotes where he rags on the social safety net and liberals. I wonder if he/she read one or more of my posts here on DU?

For reference purposes, here are the quotes from when Dean was the gov. of Vermont:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml


Obviously, Dean has changed his spots since VT in order to get nominated.

[Rose Siding]

48. Nah, they tweaked an old Gore cartoon

because they would have seen all the repeated rebuttal of that piece you post.

[cryofan]

35. What newspaper did this cartoon run in? n/t

[Hep]

40. If you pay attention

you would see Boston Globe right there.

I guess the BG is only credible when it's going after Dean.

[Desertrose]

56. 'bout damn time...oops did I say that out loud?

:evilgrin:


sorry.....well not really
:shrug:
DR

[killbotfactory]

58. Flip-flopping charges coming from a Kucinich supporter, no less

You realize that all the candidates have changed their opinions on certain subjects over the years, right?

[chocolateeater]

60. Yes, but it's OK for them to do it,

it's just not OK for Dean.:evilgrin:

[Desertrose]

63. uh yeah, I am able to grasp that... butcan you explain why

Dean has changed his story within months or weeks -depending on what is politically expedient??

Kucinich changed his view on a womans choice over years... before he decided to accept the draft of running for pres.....

and Dr Dean? lets face it...there are threads all over DU detailing his many and recent flip-flops...I mean change of opinion.

I don't think you'll find too many other reversals by Kucinich....hmmm...maybe thats why Dean supporters have a hard time with Dennis...not used to a candidate sticking to his beliefs...

Peace
DR

[killbotfactory]

66. Dean changed his story, huh?

Nope, don't think so.

What is Kucinich's position on stem cell research, today? I heard a supporter say he supports it, but he voted for and co-sponsored the anti-cloning bill which bans it.

Why did Kucinich vote for the Iraqi liberation act, which authorizes military force as a means to overthrow Saddam?

Why did Kucinich start endorsing medical marijuana after opposing it in the past?

[diamondsoul]

73. Then the supporter was wrong.

At this time Kucinich does NOT support stem-cell research performed with cloned embryos. That isn't because he doesn't care about stem-cell research it's because has a problem with creating what he percieves as a human life strictly for the purposes of research.

Also there is NOTHING in the language of the Iraqi Liberation Act authorizing military force. I read it the text you're imagining doesn't exist.

He may well have opposed medical marijuana in the past I haven't researched that particular topic since I'm no aware of any congressional votes on the issue for quite a number of years. What's your source that he ever opposed it, if you don't mind citing for me?

[Zomby Woof]

74. of course you offer no sources

He doesn't oppose stem-cell research in and of itself, just in the context of human cloning.

If the other two are reversals, cite evidence.

Even then, the grand total in 30+ years of public service is MAYBE 4 reversals. Far above average for anyone in office.

Four is Dean's total waffles in a week, and unlike DK's, Dean's comes from pandering, instead of pondering. ;-)

[Myra]

65. Good cartoon. Dean certainly does a 180 on policies.

Hang on; U-turn!

[meow mix]

68. u-turns haha

you funny =)

its like a huge, lost... funeral procession.
"hey where tha f#@* is we goin???"

[Cheswick2.0]

67. yes they are figuring him out

and his polls get higher all the time. I didn't support him until I figured him out and now I will stick with him until the whitehouse.

[Mairead]

75. I would never have thought of you as someone who embraces the status quo

I'd thought your standards were higher.

Silly me :(

[Zomby Woof]

71. what is taking them so long?

The more people who see what a shyster he is now, the better.