Are your feelings about Obama more positive or negative after reading his Reagan comments?

[Herman Munster]

[OHdem10]

1. He sounds as if he is to the right of the DLC.

He has no respect for Liberals. If he thinks Liberalism
is so bad as Regan--is he in the correct party. He does
not care for our votes. How arrogrant or is he compelled
to appease the Right???

Now the Present Votes are beginning to make sense.

[sunonmars]

2. Well if this poll is any indication

This reagan thing is going down as popular as a fart in an elevator.

i'm telling you, we have not seen the real Obama, in fact i have no fucking idea who or what he is, that commentator is right, he is a shapeshifter.

[polichick]

8. There was a similar poll after he dissed the boomers...

But people soon forgot ~ or, in my case, tried to forget ~ because he's such an inspirational person.

Could be just a good old-fashion con job.

[Yael]

18. I tried to forget too. Now, my attention can be classified as "undivided"

[rocktivity]

3. He simply pointed out that Reagan succeeded in MARKETING change to the public

he didn't ENDORSE it.

:headbang:
rocknation

[bbinacan]

5. Good point.

Reagan had a good relationship with Tip.

[ruggerson]

6. No, that's your spin on what he said

that's not what he said at all.

[thunder rising]

13. That is WHAT HE SAID

LIKE THE OUTCOME OR NOT REAGAN WAS AN AGENT OF CHANGE.
HAVE ANY MORE DOUBTS WATCH THE DAMNED CLIP

[Yael]

20. And the Republican party has been the party of ideas for the last 10-15 years

Yeah, thats a real progressive stance.

[jackson_dem]

42. How many right-wing talking points is Obama going to adopt? Good grief!

[rocktivity]

49. Not adopt--co-opt.

The Rethugs don't have exclusive rights to the Reagan franchise anymore. Obama's strangling them with their own rhetoric--I think it's very clever.

:headbang:
rocknation

[ruggerson]

25. I watched the damn clip

and he did not say anything about marketing.

What he said was that "Reagan tapped into what people were feeling: they wanted clarity, they wanted optimism, they wanted that sense of dynamism, the sense of entrepeneurship"

IN other words he parrotted the spin that Reagan provided all those things and the people responded to it.

Learn word comprehension, it might help you.

[Joe the Revelator]

32. Holy crap, are you some kind of dunce or something?

Reagan did tap into what people werre feeling. They wanted clarity and optimism and he gave it to them. He sold them a "New Morning in America" and they went with it and supported him.

Why don't you work on learning some word comprehension Ruggerson?

[Yael]

34. That pretty much matches my notes:

Reagan tapped into what the country wanted -- clarity, optimism.

We are back in the late 70s now, same thing

Republicans were the party of ideas for the last 10-15 years, challenging the convential wisdom.

[redqueen]

52. ... Reagan tapped into racism and selfishness. (nt)

[amandabeech]

28. He was the spokesman for folks who wanted to go back to the 1920s,

or perhaps earlier when women and minorities and everyone were treated like shit.

Reminding people of spokespersons for change for the worse doesn't make folks happy.

Your candidate is a smart guy. Obviously, he knows that his mention of that abomination of a actor will get people riled. He decided to invoke the name and the bad changes anyway.

You can't expect people who lived through it to have anything other than a bad taste in their mouths.

Now, let me go do my taxes so I can pay down some of that damned deficit Raygun left the country with.

[Maven]

9. Nope.

He was very positive on several aspects of his approach.

[Berry Cool]

35. Maybe so, but if he'd been wise, he'd have backed away from it ASAP

and made it abundantly clear where and how his vision departs from Reagan's. To point out that while he may admire Reagan's effectiveness in inspiring so many people to get behind his vision, it is not a vision with which he personally agrees.

He didn't do that. More's the pity. He's old enough to remember what Reagan was like and to know that his presidency was very bad to the people most hungry for the kind of difference Obama represents.

[jackson_dem]

41. Obama liked some of the change Reagan brought

One example from pages 156-157 of his book

"The conservative revolution Reagan helped usher in gained traction because Reagan's central insight--that the liberal welfare state had grown complacent and overly bureaucratic, with Democratic policy makers more obsessed with slicing the economic pie than with growing he pie--contained a good deal of truth."

[Bodhi BloodWave]

47. Since i've seen this post by you in almost every post even

remotely linked to this topic i decided to finally ask a question, what is the paragraph before and after that one?

[robbedvoter]

57. Read the book! he's your candidate!

I linked to these posts several times as people were refusing to deal with the quotes - on the merits. Not unlike you're doing right now. How about you read, then debate this.

[bbinacan]

4. No change.

Much ado about nothing.:eyes:

[Djinn]

7. never thought he was all that inspiring

always seemed like yet another conservative capitalist to me

[thunder rising]

19. Well let's see where the chips fall Saturday.

[Djinn]

29. whenever they fall

it wont make me view any of the contenders as anything other than pro corporate pro empire capitalists

[ngant17]

10. It may be tactical on the part of Obama

but any time I hear some mentioned Raygun, I lapse back into a post-traumatic stress disorder.

Raygun, nah, I wouldn't waste my urine to piss on his grave. I'd rather Obama try to win without bringing this SOB back to life again.

[ClericJohnPreston]

15. So wake up!

Look at who is proposing change that isn't a code word for Conservatism, "bi-partisan".

Look at John Edwards, the REAL Progresive for REAL change!

Know this: No REAL liberal would EVER invoke the name of Reagan...it is pure absurdity.

[ngant17]

27. a true liberal would have fought 'right to work (for less)'

on his home turf, which in the case of JE, that would be NC which is notoriously anti-union. I suppose it's hard to make it in NC politics without some conservative bedfellows.

Yeah, I know JE supports the Employee Free Choice Act on the national level but so does BO and HC, so he doesn't get my vote just yet.

He has to be consistently against the war, so I hope he doesn't change his mind again and as President, decide to invade some tiny island-nation like Grenada.

If JE wants my vote, I'll forget his war mongering 3 years ago if he can start with the Cuba issue. Unfortunately Edwards has expressed support for the economic embargo on Cuba, like the other 2 candidates, so where's the liberal in him here?

[jackson_dem]

43. When was Edwards governor of North Carolina?

[ngant17]

55. Don't know about that

but being governor of a state isn't the real issue, if you can't make a statement on a local level, either as a county dog-catcher or as district representative or senator or even as a governor, how do you expect me to believe you are sincere on a national level wrt right to work?

[LulaMay]

16. If so, It's WRONG. Anything is okay as a means to an end?

I've lost some respect for him with those remarks.

[ngant17]

30. the other 2 Dems have done similar things

such as JE as co-sponsor of the IWR 3 years ago. This was definitely a tactical move on his part, even though he might not have really wanted to have a war after all. Now he's anti-war? It's all about ambition and getting elected.

With Hillary, I was kinda expecting her to have been some tax-raising, socialized-health-care-loving peacenik, but she positions herself for tactical reasons, too. She might be a battle-axe like Marg Thatcher when she gets into office. Hard to say IMHO.

[arewenotdemo]

17. well stated

it obviously was tactical...it seems that he and/or his people believe that he needs to pick up votes from the right to beat Hillary.

[avaistheone1]

22. I think it is tactical on and it is a mistake to use Reagan who hurt so many people to get votes.

Bad move Obama. You either are naive or not as smart as I thought you are --- or very cunning.

[Berry Cool]

39. Same here.

I would advise Obama "Do not even try to get into the 'Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, Who's the Reaganiest of Them All?' pissing contest with the Republicans. It is a game you will lose."

[rucky]

11. Absolutely no change.

I'm still not sure what to make of him, and I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[LulaMay]

12. VERY disappointing, and frankly, SCARY

RONALD REAGAN?!!!

If this is his idea of trying to get the CA vote, it's very misguided, not to mention YUCK.

Is everything REALLY acceptable as a means to an end?


And what is the crud about the 'excesses of the 60's'?!!!

Cripes.

[Colobo]

14. No change, because I agree with him.

[Joe the Revelator]

21. The people who voted "negative" either didn't read or didn't understand what he said

[Yael]

24. My response was STRONGLY negative and he was my solid #2

Let the vetting begin.

Oh, and as you are insulting people's intelligence here, just below this post, I have posted a link to the actual audio with minute markers.

Yes, I listened. Did you?

[Joe the Revelator]

31. I've watched the entire video a number of times trying to figure out why Hillary's supporters are..

making so much noise about it. Nowhere does he say anything overtly pro-Reagan, he just gave a true analysis of why Reagan was so popular.

And minute markers? What is this, the Zapruder tape?

[Yael]

33. Oh please. It is to save people time.

Quit looking for shit that doesn't exist.

You listened, I listened -- and we took two different things from it.

[Joe the Revelator]

37. I'm looking for "shit" that doesn't exsist?

Thats funny, because you're the one making a big deal out of a blatently benign statement.

[redqueen]

53. What an arrogant comment. (nt)

[Yael]

23. For any who want to listen for themselves

The quotes in question about St. Ronnie and the "Republicans being the party of ideas for the last 10-15 years" (ie, 1993-present), you can find it here:

18 minutes in, through around minute marker 22:

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/VIDEO/80115026&oaso=news.rgj.com/breakingnews

[Bok_Tukalo]

26. He was just stating a fact

No matter how difficult that fact is to take.

There was a large political change in the Reagan Revolution that was real in this nation. It may be dying now and we can see the Republican Primary chaos as an indication of its death but it did occur.

The real question is the hubris in intimating that he is a candidate on that level. Perhaps he is an individual that can move the nation in a decades long direction but winning Iowa is not convincing enough to stake that claim.

[xchrom]

36. kick

[semndem]

38. No change for me

If you actually read what he said, He said Reagan changed the country. He never said he changed it for the better. I have to agree with that statement. Reagan did change the country, just not for the better.

[redqueen]

54. Hi semndem!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Tulkas]

40. Some pundits are saying........

..... that at least 50% of America sees his comments about Reagan as a positive thing. Also that those numbers go way up in California.


Appealing to the middle may be a good thing in the general, as well as playing well for the primary in states that are open to independents.



Don't punish him for being honest. If you do, then you deserve a president who lies to you.

[sunonmars]

44. This Reagan thing could be Obama's Dean Scream

The one that made Democrats sit up and go What the Flipping Fuck was that!

[robbedvoter]

45. Except that "the scream" was largely amplified/exaggerated by the MSM.

The Raygun worship was freely offered by the candidate - and so far, very reluctantly and sparsely covered in the media...In fact, considering how DU thinks MSM is favoring Hillary so much, it's quite strange than not more is made of this...:shrug:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

48. you mean aside from the minor fact there was no worship? n/t

[musicblind]

46. I had to put down NO CHANGE

I mean, it's just not THAT SHOCKING to me. And anyone on here will testify that I have NOT been an Obama apologist, and support other candidates than him... but come on. It's not like he said he likes to watch 12 year old boys play in the sprinklers.

I just don't think what he said about Reagan is that big of a deal.

We should be fair to the guy. No one should be skinning Clinton for her MLK remark and no one should be killing Obama over his Reagan comment.

Though, Herman, I am a fan of a lot of your posts... believe it or not. :)

[Beacool]

50. Just what we need, a Republican-light candidate!!!

A reminder to all those who call Hillary Bush-light, karma is a bitch......

[Kucinich4America]

56. Just because Obama also panders to the right, doesn't mean Hillary doesn't.

Obama is merely DLC "approved". Hillary is a DLC leader.

Obama admires Reagan. The Clintons are personal friends with the Bush Crime Family, who were the hand up Reagan's ass (uh, figuratively speaking, of course)

[Skip Intro]

51. Wow, has there been a shift here at DU?