The peace movement cast aside?

[G_j]

It appears that the peace movement, having energized the party, hardly has a place at the table now. We were the first to show the courage to speak up. We spent countless hours lobbying: making calls, writing letters, visiting Congressional offices. We were standing on street corners being called unAmerican long before the Dems started getting some "backbone". And we were right!!

Now, are we supposed to bury the principals that ignited the very best of our passions, that paved the way for dissenting voices. Where is our place at the table? What are we to do now?


here is a plea, on Super Tuesday give delegates to Kucinich, Kerry and Edwards will do fine without them. Don't cast peace aside. Bringing Kucinich delegates to the convention will allow some of his principled ideas to influence the platform.

Give Peace A Chance!!

ALSO, Join the world in saying NO to War!
March 20 See: www.unitedforpeace.org

[greatauntoftriplets]

1. You have given me an idea for which I thank you.

On March 16, my vote for Kucinich in the Illinois primary will be dedicated to the young woman of my acquaintance who was arrested nearly one year ago in the big downtown Chicago peace demonstration the second night of the war.

[G_j]

4. Thank you

for bringing that up. There were hundreds of peace workers arrested across the country. Here in our small city alone, there were 41 arrests.

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. They were arrested for acting on their beliefs.

And were willing to accept the consequences for civil diobedience to do so. The peace workers should be an inspiration to us all.

[Crachet2004]

19. Vote your conscience in the primaries...

ABB in the fall. Nothing wrong with peaceful protest and demonstration...but a peace movement that engages in violence is a contradiction in terms.

I think, we need to be energy independent. I do not think we are leaving the middle-east until we are. No matter what politicians tell you, to get your vote, they are gonna make us squat on top of the oil...until there is some replacement.

To me, the key to peace is energy independence, hopefully through renewables. It removes the unspoken rationale for war.

[greatauntoftriplets]

21. Only with a bucket and a clothespin for my nose.

.

[Crachet2004]

25. I feel the same way...but what else can we do?

I just went to eat at a little country restaurant near my home. They had a sign up "WE support the 10 Commandements", then listed them...you know, a printed campaign-type sign.

I went in and told the lady I didn't know Moses was running for president and she just laughed, and I did too (she's sweet)...but none of the customers did-and I made sure they all heard it! They all had to sit there and eat with a heathen like me in the room. I figure one of them put the sign up, the way they all acted. And I just laughed at them.

They better get used to it...but it ain't no joke.

ABB is the only way I can see to fight back.

Fight back against religious hypocrisy;
Phony wars;
Politicians worried more about jobs in China than this country;
Unfair Healthcare, etc...ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

ABB is not a complete answer, but it is a beginning-and we have to start somewhere! Pass me a clothespin.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. And for the people in Portland

who were arrested for blocking Burnside Avenue and who slowed traffic on I-5 by riding their bicycles on it and for all the tens of thousands of Portland who began marching in October 2002 and continued to do so many times thereafter, with one small but dedicated group marching through downtown every Friday.

We did have an effect. Our four Dem Congresspersons (Wu, Blumenauer, Hooley, and DeFazio) all voted against the IWR.

[mopinko]

33. vote for dean

take the peace movement to boston, instead of watching it go home to ohio.

[mrgorth]

46. I love your avatar

can't wait 'til I can choose my own.

[DrFunkenstein]

2. I'm Sorry, But I Represent The Peace Movement, Too

And I still believe that Kerry is the best choice. Even though I strongly disagreed with his IWR vote, I believe that his commitment to transforming the "war" on terrorism into an international police and intelligence gathering operation - with a focus on securing loose nuclear materials and reducing nuclear stockpiles - is the best use of my state's delegates.

[G_j]

6. understood, a question

don't you think Kerry has a strong enough position to do this already? Is it a matter of keeping Edwards at bay? Just curious.

[sallyseven]

15. No the repuks control the

agenda. Get over it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

3. The Democratic Party is the Pro-War Party

and it always has been, since the beginning. The Peace movement is welcome to vote Democratic if you don't like Bush.

[Baclava]

7. Peace is highly overrated

Man is the killer ape, afterall.
Sex, eat, sleep, kill...like that.

[H2O Man]

22. Earth House Hold

by Gary Snyder, 1968: "To those who stubbornly argue ' it's against human nature ' we can only patiently reply that you must know your own nature before you can say this.Those who have gone into their own natures deeply have, for several thousand years now, been reporting that we have nothing to fear if we are willing to train ourselves, to open up, explore and grow." If we limit our beliefs to the MACHINE, the body alone, the mechanical, you are right. The killer ape. But if you understand the DIVINE, the universal energy flow, the miracle of being alive here, now, today, then we are no more limited to being that "killer ape" than we are limited to remaining high school students. We need to embrace the power of ideas. As Bob Marley sang: POSITIVE VIBRATIONS !!!

[mopinko]

34. man is also the cooperative ape

we are who we are because we are complex beings. we are who we are because of our ability to work together for the common good. we are not wolves, cooperating only to kill. apes do much more than kill together. if you really want to learn something about this subject, here is a good book to start with-
the moral animal by robert wright.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679763996/102-9897380-9117736?v=glance
it is very interesting and informative to look at our evolutionary past. but yours is an oversimplified view.

[KoKo]

8. Yes, this is what I plan to do. It's about the delegates. They need to

know we won't go away. Kerry is running far enough ahead, that votes for Kucinich and Dean won't hurt him. We must have a voice in the Democratic Party. A third party just can't work for this coming election. We need to get Bush out, but lay a groundwork for reform the minute he's gone...because he won't be gone. The Repugs will still be working against us just like they did when they kicked off their Whitewater investigation of Clinton.

[snoochie]

9. Here's a thought

Seems to me that anyone in the peace movement should logically vote for Kucinich in the primary.

"Everybody Knows" that Kerry has it sewn up by the second ballot in Boston, right? So if one safely expects this to be the case, why not help send a wave of support for real reform of the platform to work for reforming the electoral system, universal health care and a living wage, wouldn't that be a worthy goal?

[sallyseven]

16. That is what they said about Nader

Then the evil ones rigged the election. Every vote counts.

[revcarol]

23. If you don't buy into the "electable" meme, then your vote

FOR A PEACE CANDIDATE is even more important. It is a POSITIVE move in the direction you want to go.

[Kanary]

26. Uh, Sally, we're talking the primaries here

Nader 2000 has nothing to do with that.

Every vote does, indeed, count in the primaries.

And, if you vote for Dennis Kucinich, you'll be strenthening the voice of peace at the convention.

Peace counts, also.

Kanary

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Nader didn't run in the Dem primaries

n/t

[G_j]

10. March 20

Momentum is building for the Global Day of Action against War and Occupation on March 20, 2004—the one-year anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. On that day people all around the globe will take to the streets to say YES to peace and NO to pre-emptive war and occupation. In communities large and small around the United States and across the globe, we will call for an end to the occupation of Iraq and Bush's militaristic foreign policies. March 20 will be the first time the world's "other superpower" will take center stage
---------------------------------
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/calendar.php?calid=6894

Fayetteville, NC - The World Still Says No to War

Saturday, March 20th 2004 ':' '
Fayetteville, NC USA

On March 20, a march and rally is planned in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Nearby is the home of Ft. Bragg, one of the largest military bases in the U.S., and home of the 18th Airborne Corp, the 1st Corps Support Command, the JFK Special Warfare School, and the Joint Special Operations Command. It is also adjacent to Pope Air Force Base, which includes the 43rd Airlift Wing, and the 23rd Fighter Group, and the 18th Support Operations Group.

We join with our sponsoring organizations - Military Families Speak Out, Bring Them Home Now coalition, Quaker House of Fayetteville, September 11th Families of Peaceful Tomorrows, and the Fayetteville Peace with Justice Coalition, and Veterans for Peace on March 20 under the banners:

WE DEMAND REAL SUPPORT FOR THE TROOPS: BRING THEM HOME NOW!
MONEY FOR JOBS AND EDUCATION, NOT WAR AND OCCUPATIONS.

THE WORLD STILL SAYS NO TO WAR!
On March 20, we call on all people of conscience to show their solidarity with military families, and vets, as well as the untold millions of others who are disproportionately affected by war and occupations, and the war at home, to join us in Fayetteville. The N.C. March 20 Planning Committee, representing over 100 peace and justice groups from across North Carolina, will join with others from South Carolina, Richmond Virginia, Knoxville, Tennessee, and Atlanta, Georgia to wage peace during this historical gathering in the South!
----------------------------------
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=sub&sub=31

March 20: NYC Still Says No to War!
March and Rally Against War and Occupation
Saturday, March 20 • Assemble at Noon
23rd Street & Madison Avenue, New York City
Outreach Materials • Ride Board • Housing Board

Last year, two days after the Bush Administration launched its illegal attack on Iraq, more than 300,000 people marched down Broadway in Midtown Manhattan in protest. On March 20, 2004—the one-year anniversary of the Iraq War—we will march in New York City again, as part of a global day of action against war and occupation.

www.unitedforpeace.org
www.bringthemhomenow.org
www.mfso.org

[peace4all]

43. plan to be in Fayettville

and I will be voting for DK!

[GreenInNC]

44. Fayetteville peace rally

I will be there too!

[nancyharris]

45. Will see hear a single Democratic member of Congress

speak at any of these events?

[H2O Man]

11. Vote!

Vote based on your beliefs, your conscience, your family values, but make an educated vote. Do not listen to the "major media" when they define who is/is not the "peace movement." If Fox News had Bill O'Rabies frothing at the mouth saying that the sun will rise in the west from here on out, it does not make it so. We are at a time when by the very nature of a campaign (that same nature that demands the sun will rise in the east!) that many of us will temporarily loose some steam, become tired, and question our individual ability to make any difference! But, brothers and sisters, we are MORE than individuals! We are an irresistable collective force, a force of nature, and - guess what? - the bush administration is unnatural, against the laws of the universe, and about to be expelled from the White House! Vote! Yes, a vote for DK is great! A vote for Rev. Al is great, too! And a vote for JK and a vote for JE is great! The only vote that isn't great is a vote that does not make it to the poll.

[DrFunkenstein]

13. Well Said!

Vote your beliefs! A non-vote is not a protest, it's disenfranchisment!

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. Peace is the new Terror

It is also the opposite of money.

[Desertrose]

27. oh so true

and so well said..."peace is the new terror"

peace = no more ka-ching!

how sad......

Peace....
DR

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[revcarol]

17. We can always put our money where our mouth is:

www.kucinich.us

The man is not totally a pacifist, believes in honest to goodness self defense, but will give great primacy to cooperation, negotiation and diplomacy.And will cut the OFFENSE budget by 15%.

[tinanator]

18. What noise

If puppets are so ineffective, why are they preemptively attacked and confiscated? You have no idea what an important thing public protesting is in bypassing the media roadblock and communicating effectively the voice of reason to passers by. EVERYONE opposed to the militaryindustrial machinations of Bushcorp and friends HAS to be in the streets March 20. These marches may be your only chance to effectively vote against dangerous imperial aggression in a public display of opposition. Are YOU really against Bush? Then you have no choice but to be there, somewhere, on March 20.

[H2O Man]

20. marches alone may not be enough

Another possibility is that marches need to change in nature. Is it possible that 200,000 people who stand, sit, kneel, and/or lay in prayer and/or meditation, would make a significantly different IMPACT upon the national consciousness than the recent marches have? The lady with the Bobby Sands photo (a pround aunt!) said that people who practice civil disobedience must be willing to suffer the consequences. Being arrested is tough. Going to jail is tougher. It's a lot to ask of an individual. Maybe it is time for crowds to be willing to suffer the consequences. People like Bobby Sands, Martin Luther King,Jr., and Cesar Chavez were willing to suffer. I believe that the bush administration is morally ill, with its destruction of the earth, its murder for oil, its lust for earthly kingdoms. I think that using moral force is an appropriate option. And I'm willing to listen to all other sincere people's suggestions.

[G_j]

24. the rally at Ft. Bragg with 9-11 families, military families

veterans and peace loving peoples of all walks, promises to be huge and historic. I think March 20 is a crucial moment.
There also will be rallies around the country. This is the anniversary of the invasion of Iraq.

I believe this day offers an opportunity for many forms of expression. If a group decides to partake in non-violent civil disobedience, such as a silent prayer on the steps of the Capitol, Fox, CNN, Haliburton etc., this would be the day for it. Because of the huge effort being made by Vets, military and 9-11 families this day, there will be an obvious message of solidarity that hopefully would not be lost on the media.

[mopinko]

35. puppets and signs do not stand alone, you know

it is the people who stand behind them, willing to be attacked, that send the message. maybe we failed to stop it, but the message that war cannot be entered into lightly will permeate the next century.

[KoKo]

40. I don't think they "fail." I think they are important but no one wants to

give credit for their influence. To be seen as "weak, pacifist, resistance" in our culture allows triumph of folks who always want to appear strong and in control with their guns & bombs. While many indeed will work against what they outwardly support to their friends and family, while giving support (unseen) to groups which will in fact, work to suppor peace.

I think, simplifying this, that it's that "Macho Thing," and a little of "who wants to look like a wimp."

So, "Peace Movements" often do more than they are given credit for. That's why, just imho, it's important for folks to keep the "Peace" going because we will pick up many friends and "behind the scenes support" from those who don't want to be "identified."

Peace is not bad or wimpy. But, societies view puts a "spin on" that most don't want to deal with if exposed.

[G_j]

42. nice reply

as Elvis Costello said, "whats so funny about peace love and understanding?"

[Iverson]

28. No, the peace movement was not cast aside.

It was never embraced in the first place. It was always at the margins of the Democratic Party.

It being 100% right on Iraq also doesn't seem to cut any mustard with the noisy multitudes learning to chant "electability" in unison.

[Kanary]

29. The peace movement, poverty issues, jobs: truth in general

We're supposed to sacrifice for the good of..... the industries, remember?

After all, it's the corporations we are all supported by.

And there you have it....

Kanary

[G_j]

30. I am one who thinks

that we were in an emergency situation before Bush was selected. The environment, trade issues, the military and prison industrial complexes, health care etc. etc. I agree with giving Bush a pink slip, but our problems run way deeper than that.

[Kanary]

36. Yes, the emergency among Democrats has been there a long time

That's why I can't for the life of me understand why the Dems seem to be on the verge of repeating that same agenda.

I guess it's really true that everyone is going to have to learn the hard way.

Too bad those of us who see it will have to suffer right along, too.

Kanary

[madfloridian]

32. Who said to quit crying in your teacups and get over it?

I can't remember. (Well, I do, but I don't want to be jumped on.) I do remember the calls and letters about the war, and they fell on deaf ears. I remember the shock and awe days in Iraq.

I remember a certain candidate's office telling me that though he voted for the war, he did not approve of all the killing.

[G_j]

38. sometimes I think this is worth revisiting:

Statement by Justice Jackson (Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals) on War Trials Agreement; August 12, 1945

There are some things I would like to say, particularly to the American people, about the agreement we have just signed.
For the first time, four of the most powerful nations have agreed not only upon the principles of liability for war crimes of persecution, but also upon the principle of individual responsibility for the crime of attacking the international peace.

Repeatedly, nations have united in abstract declarations that the launching of aggressive war is illegal. They have condemned it by treaty. But now we have the concrete application of these abstractions in a way which ought to make clear to the world that those who lead their nations into aggressive war face individual accountability for such acts.

<snip>
"We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which
their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the
war, but that they started it. And we must not allow
ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,
for our position is that no grievances or policies will
justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced
and condemned as an instrument of policy."
<snip>

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson

Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals
August 12, 1945

edit to add link: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/jack02.htm

[MaggieSwanson]

39. It would appear to be true, G_j

Unfortunate for all Democrats. They are taking the issue off the table because the front-runner was/is in accord with our current Commmander-in-Chief in reagrds to the IWR.

[Capn Sunshine]

41. Haven't you heard the news??

"no one" will support an antiwar candidate.

The ones that do are marginalaized.

any poster at DU will tell you this. Let alone Free republic.