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Clinton contradicts herself and flip-flops on Senate ethics legislation

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:24 PM
Original message
Clinton contradicts herself and flip-flops on Senate ethics legislation
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/15/580425.aspx

Hillary back then:

“The American public deserves to be certain that their elected officials are not being swayed by lavish gifts offered as quid pro quo for promoting special agendas. To that end, gifts from registered lobbyists have no place in our legislative process. For that reason, I support the sweeping ban on lobbyist-paid gifts in the Senate bill. This ban includes not just meals but also gifts of travel and lodging, areas that have been the subject of notorious abuse. . .

The reforms contained in both the Legislative Transparency and Accountability Act of 2007 and the Lobbying Transparency and Accountability Act of 2007 enact much-needed and long-awaited reforms that move us toward those goals.”


Clinton this past week:

“When Senator Obama was asked, what is your major accomplishment in the Senate," Clinton said, "he said it was passing ethics reform and getting legislators to be prohibited from having lunch with lobbyists. And then, you know, Charlie Gibson said, 'Well, wait a minute. You can have lunch if you're standing up, not if you're sitting down.' So if that's his main claim for legislative accomplishment, people deserve to know that.”


People deserve to know who the real Hillary Clinton is.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Some don't give a shit.......
Clinton-Bush-Clinton-Bush is like groundhog day....By the time we get to George P. Bush (the lil' brown one), we probably will get it almost right.
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. How is that flip flopping?
They can still have lunch as long as they don't sit down.
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jezebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. She was for the legislation before she was against it. NT
nt
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. No where do I see she flip flopped .....
all she said was Obama said that was what he accomplished. Gibson said the part about as long as you don't sit down. How is that flip flopping on the issue.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Depends on what the definition of 'is' is.
She went from calling it 'sweepeing' and 'much needed' to implying it just prevented people from sitting down at lunch.
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Lou Syffire Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Have you SEEN some of these guys?
These pigs couldn't stand for longer than 5 minutes without breaking a sweat.
So standing up at Leteuce's Tapas bar is a real sacrifice.
But they are doing it for YOU.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Seriously, who goes to Le Cirque and stands? n/t
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It went from "sweeping" and "much needed"
to something she chose to denigrate.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. As opposed to Obama who says things are very important, then doesn't bother to vote on them
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Especially when Harry Reid, whose entire family
Edited on Tue Jan-15-08 07:42 PM by geek tragedy
is working for Clinton, schedules the vote while he's out of town.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. And the distortions and attacks continue n/t
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. THIS IS DISTORTION, DANGIT!

HOW DARE YOU compare two quotes side by side. That is so unfair.











:sarcasm:
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Hillary vs. Hillary: sounds like a fair fight to me. n/t
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. it would be so inappropriate to say
CATFIGHT, so I won't.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yeah, you might get charged with..
"sexist remark!"! Even though it's true:)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. hillary deserves to know
how much we're paying attention and her pandering lies are gonna sink her..among other sinkable traits the clintons have that are not worthy of letting them back into our white house.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. sort of like Obama railing against the war but voting to fund it..eh?
Won't hear Obama folks talk a lot about that one..
you will get the "look Hillary did it" argument though.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. The decision to invade is a completely different
question than the decision regarding what to do once the invaded country's government is disbanded.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Of course it is..Obama said one..Hill said another..
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Yeah, Hillary helped create the mess, and Obama had to help
figure out how to clean it up.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Obama ran against voting to fund the war
Once he won he broke that promise and voted to the war for two years. Here is more about his record.

While running for Senate in 2003, Sen. Obama acknowledged that he took his anti-war speech off his campaign website, calling it 'dated.' Specifically, State Senator Obama maintains that an October 2002 anti-war speech was removed from his campaign web site because - the speech was dated once the formal phase of the war was over, and my staff's desire to continually provide fresh news clips."

In 2004, Sen. Obama said he didn’t know how he would have voted on the Iraq War resolution. When asked about Senators Kerry and Edwards' votes on the Iraq war, Obama said, "I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports,’ Mr. Obama said. ‘What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.’ -- Note: No one disputes that Sen. Obama opposed the war from his "vantage point" as a part-time state senator in Illinois. The point we are making is that Sen. Obama acknowledged that he did not know how he would have voted had his vantage point been from the U.S. Senate.

In 2004, Sen. Obama also said there was little difference between his position and George Bush’s position on Iraq. In a meeting with Chicago Tribune reporters at the Democratic National Convention, Obama said, "On Iraq, on paper, there's not as much difference, I think, between the Bush administration and a Kerry administration as there would have been a year ago. <...> There's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage."

Until he ran for president, Sen. Obama supported every funding bill for Iraq, some $300 billion. <2005 Vote # 117, HR1268, 5/10/05; 2005 Vote # 326, S1042, 11/15/05; 2006 Vote # 112, HR4939, 5/4/06; 2006 Vote # 239; 2006 Vote # 186, S2766, 6/22/06, HR5631, 9/7/06>

Sen. Obama waited 18 months to give his first speech on the Senate floor devoted to Iraq, in which he opposed a timeline for withdrawal. Obama said "I'm also acutely aware that a precipitous withdrawal of our troops, driven by Congressional edict rather than the realities on the ground, will not undo the mistakes made by this Administration. It could compound them."

Sen. Obama didn't introduce legislation to end the Iraq war until he started running for president.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=5161
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. yeah but...Hope! Change! MLK!
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Sniff. n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Yes, he voted to fund the troops....
and yes, he did not support starting this war.

Durbin, who voted against the war authorization in 2002 but also has voted for troop funding, and Obama foreign policy adviser Susan Rice, a former assistant secretary of state in the Clinton Administration.
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/clinton_and_durbin_argue_over.html

"His position on the war in Iraq has never changed, never,” Durbin said. “Like a lot of us in the Senate,” Durbin added, Obama voted for funding that “provided material support for the troops in the field.”

“What he wasn’t willing to do is punish our troops for the President’s poor judgment in going to war,” Rice said.



What about Hillary?

I'm sure that OBama would have preferred NOT to have to vote to fund the troops......and would have preferred that they would have never been put in harm's way.

What about Hillary?

Answer the questions, and there lies the difference.
read the Obama's railing against the war and understand why he voted to fund the troups.
If you can't understand it, then maybe it's because you don't want to.

Obama defends votes in favor of Iraq funding
Says he backs troops, not war




Delivered on 26 October 2002 at an anti-war rally

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not – we will not – travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech




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peoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. Flip flopping contest. Hillary vs. Mitt - who wins?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. It would be a dance--they'd try to mimic the other. n/t
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. Best ya got?
Figured as much.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. Seeing the term "flip-flop" seriously makes me want to smack people
Ever since 2004 I find myself trying to calm the raging red-head in me everytime I hear it.
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