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Wilentz: To understand Hillary's "race problem," we must better understand history of Civil Rights

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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 03:43 PM
Original message
Wilentz: To understand Hillary's "race problem," we must better understand history of Civil Rights
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 03:44 PM by Karmadillo
Why try to understand history when it's so much easier to misuse it for political advantage?

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=a383df9e-9d33-4b57-b832-a75b7c4d0d0c

The New Republic

The Power and the Inspiration by Sean Wilentz
To understand Hillary Clinton's "race problem," we must better understand the history of civil rights.


<edit>

Her point was simple: Although great social changes require social movements that create hope and force crises, elected officials, presidents above all, are also required in order to turn those hopes into laws. It was, plainly, a rejoinder to the accusations by Obama that Clinton has sneered at "hope." Clinton was also rebutting Obama's simplistic assertions about "hope" and the American Revolution, the abolition of slavery, and the end of Jim Crow.

The historical record is crystal clear about this, and no responsible historian seriously contests it. Without Frederick Douglass and the abolitionists, black and white (not to mention restive slaves), there would have been no agitation to end slavery, even after the Civil War began. But without Douglass's ally in the White House, the sympathetic, deeply anti-slavery but highly pragmatic Abraham Lincoln, there could not have been an Emancipation Proclamation or a Thirteenth Amendment. Likewise, without King and his movement, there would have been no civil rights revolution. But without the Texas liberal and wheeler-dealer Lyndon Johnson, and his predecessor John F. Kennedy, there would have been no Civil Rights Act of 1964 or Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Hope, in other words, is necessary to bring about change--but it is never enough. Change also requires effective leadership inside government. It's not a matter of either/or (that is, either King or Johnson), but a matter of both/and.

Behind this argument over Clinton's comments lies a false, mythic view of the 1960s in which the civil rights movement supposedly pushed Johnson and the Democrats to support civil rights against their own will. In fact, the movement and the elected officials were distinct but complementary elements in the civil rights politics that changed America.

<edit>

In all of these instances, Johnson responded with political courage as well as sincere conviction about racial equality, but, like Kennedy (and, for that matter, Lincoln) before him, he also needed events to create a climate when his political skills could be applied. Johnson's relations with Martin Luther King were often tense, and the two men parted ways in 1967 over King's opposition to the Vietnam War. On the fundamental issues of civil rights reform, though, Johnson and King were in close contact and worked together as allies. And when Johnson, in his speech to Congress on voting rights in 1965, quoted and embraced the civil rights battle cry--"We Shall Overcome"--Dr. King openly wept. He called Johnson at the White House. "It is ironic, Mr. President," said King, "that after a century, a southern white President would help lead the way toward the salvation of the Negro."

Martin Luther King led the movement; Lyndon B. Johnson supported that movement, played the politics, guided the legislation, and signed it into law. Both were indispensable to the civil rights successes of the 1960s. To acknowledge both denigrates neither man. Describing such an acknowledgement as a denigration of Dr. King is, at best, bad history. At worst, it is a manipulative and inflammatory racial appeal concerning a crucial era in American history--an era that needs very, very careful consideration indeed. Either way, the current heated rhetoric demonstrates that the utopia of post-racial politics has hardly arrived.





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MollieBradford Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Clinton was saying it took both men
but more than that she was simply saying that it takes speech and action. She was not saying MLK's only contribution was a good speech or that he didn't act.
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Clinton was saying that LBJ's contribution was more important than MLK's.
THAT'S what was offensive.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. You are a liar. n/t
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very good! I could never understand why it became an
issue. Logic. Logic Logic
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Logic says MLK's contribution is more important than LBJ's
but you appear to be disagreeing. LBJ wouldn't have been put into the position to sign the Civil Rights Act without

* the death of John F. Kennedy
* the hard work of Dr. King
* the looming alternative presence of Malcolm in the black community

Do you choose Professor Xavier or Magneto?

LBJ's signing was a finishing touch, but it was NOT more important than all the hard work and dreaming that came before it. The signing was a culmination, not the change itself.

Besides, anyone can sign anything -- as was shown in Reconstruction -- but it takes will to make that signing work -- again, as was shown in Reconstruction. When white will flagged, it didn't matter how many papers were signed, it was right back to quasi-slavery and second-class citizenship for blacks, mulattos and near-whites (with differing degrees of that second class citizenship).

Or am I misreading you?
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. seems to back up what Clinton said...and no foul was committed.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for posting the article,
very, very careful consideration is what's been lacking in this debate.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Clintons have suddenly become "racists" because of SC.
It is vital for the Obama camp to scare the living daylights out of any black voter not already on their side. I guess they're expecting the white vote to go to Edwards?

The motive is transparent and painful to watch. Whoever is our next president will have unimaginable power BECAUSE WE DIDN'T IMPEACH BUSH. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Are we deluded that Democrats will never fall to temptation? DEMOCRATS? I come from Tammany Hall country. You?

If we can't say boo to Obama now, how are we going to provide the oversight necessary for a president who can detain without trial and torture at will? Nobody will have a problem criticizing Hillary, god knows, or Edwards. But Obama?
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origin1286 Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. This article is just another piece to the Clinton strategy
As I keep saying by getting people talking about race, Obama becomes a black candidate rather than a candidate who is black.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, Wilentz supports Clinton and in fact knows her well
but I think he's right on here. Furthemore, he's a solid and highly respected liberal historian. I don't think this is part of any strategy. He's actually pretty compelling. I've been critical of some of the things Clinton surrogates have said and done, but she didn't do anything wrong in this regard.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Distinguished African-American author Lerone Bennett, Jr. says Lincoln was a racist.
Read Bennett’s book “Forced into Glory: Abraham Lincoln’s White Dream

Bennett was a managing editor of Ebony magazine and the author of a biography of Martin Luther King, Jr., “What Manner of Man”.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I've seen some fairly compelling evidence to that effect.
He's considered a great hero, but his victory was hardly pure. He may well have done the right thing for the wrong reasons.

And the blacks damn well deserved better for the hundred or so years that followed. The civil rights movement should never have even been necessary.

We would live in an entirely different world had entirely too many whites not been such raging assholes about the whole thing.
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. And John Brown was crazy. I don't think it's fair to
judge some folks by modern standards. Thomas Jefferson was a jackass extraordinaire......... but he was a man of his time who did what he could within the bounds of what he thought he was able to without being branded 'insane', John Brown style.

And unlike some slave owners, he kept his promise to the slaves of his blood and body through Sally. Everybody else was sold, though.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yeah, of all the attacks the Clinton campaign has leveled recently, the swipe against MLK
was the most damaging to our party and the most foolish overall. Considering MLK's courage and yes, what he actually *did*, not just said-- before his assassination in 1968-- MLK was the one who actually *did* civil rights.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Obama has never just "simplistically" offered hope
he has every bit as much detail in his platform as Clinton and, as a legislator, he has accomplished far more in his career than the polarizing "realist" with the puffed up resume.

Just more condescending crap from HillaryWorld. Keep it coming, fools.
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. the whole 'racist' story is being orchestrated at presently by Rove...the Kiddy Army is hooked!
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Rove is not that good. The Clintons f*cked up. Period.
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 05:29 PM by Anouka
They got caught. Instead of apologizing, they're trying to turn this back around on Obama. Obama didn't start this, they did.

They're nasty.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That's what you've been conditioned to think. And you are wrong.
To acknowledge both denigrates neither man. Describing such an acknowledgment as a denigration of Dr. King is, at best, bad history. At worst, it is a manipulative and inflammatory racial appeal concerning a crucial era in American history--an era that needs very, very careful consideration indeed.
What you think was said, wasn't said at all, Anouka.
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. To put LBJ before MLK denigrates Dr. King and those who died
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 05:50 PM by Anouka
This isn't just about MLK versus LBJ, however, MethuenProgressive; this is about a pattern of Clinton attacks. Remove the pattern of Clinton attacks, and the Clintons would probably be given the benefit of the doubt.


Coming on the heels of the Kindergarten essay press release, the muslim slur, the maddrassah slur, the concern trolling about Obama's admitted drug use (and Obama adroitly handling it through a tweek at Bill's 'I did not inhale' response from the 90s)......... the benefit of the doubt is lessened.

Then add the 'fairytale' remark, the 'roll of the dice' remark, the Clintons trying to say that a terrorist threat is more imminent under an Obama presidency, the Clintons getting pissed off after Obama didn't cower when Bill LIED about not being for the Iraq War... Hillary LYING about Obama's right to choose record... the benefit of the doubt becomes infinitesimal.

It's still available, but not by much.

But may I ask, where are you coming from this? Politically whom do yu support?

And did you live through the times? I did not.

Were you Northern, Southern, East Coast, West Coast, black, white, neither black nor white, an immigrant, born after the fact?

Is the Civil Rights Era an academic exercise for you, or living history?

I'm a Midwestern girl in the Southwest. It is living history for me, it touched and continues to touch my awareness of where am I and where I could be with and without the sacrifices of those who came before me. It's so important, that other groups -- most notably gay rights activists -- use it as a template for their own struggles.

Would gays say that the person is more important who signed gay marriage into federal law; or that it's more important the work that game before from those who struggled to get gay marriage to a point where it could be signed in the first place?

I don't know. Do you?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Good thing no one did, then.
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. How nice that people literally line up to prove my point...thank you
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Rove 101
Rovian strategy 101 Attack the weakest opponent(the one you want to run against)to firm the base and maybe cause some sympathy cross over, then praise the strongest so that the ill will you generate will turn off the base of that candidate(who would vote or support someone the evil ones praise?). Dead simple, deadly and almost always works perfectly!
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. It was a poor analogy...........
if she is comparing Obama to MLK and herself to LBJ.

I don't think she intended to denigrate MLK but it was an insensitive remark.

She said, "It took a president to get it done." Obama is also running for President so he could be both MLK and LBJ.

MLK or any other black in that time couldn't get it done because they were not in power politically. This is a new day so that comparison doesn't apply.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. That's hillary..full of insensitivity
except when it comes to herself.
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. Keep Pulling Out Race, Watch Obama Burn In The Polls
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