This debate is why...

[angryinoville]

Americans are sick of politicians. DK and Al barely got two words in. It was the John and John show. Both of the Johns supported all of the things that I'm against. And it seems like all they want to do is reword all of the same shit that's wrong instead of getting rid of it and making real change! That is why Americans are sick of politics and politicians and that is why Nader decided to run when he did. It became evident tonight with the lack of choice between Johns and the lack of speaking time the media allowed to the true progressive candidate Dennis Kucinich. That is why!

[GreenArrow]

1. Yes Sir!

It was a fucking joke.

[angryinoville]

3. Totally...

I'm insulted by Edwards and Kerry's smugness and their rhetoric. It's fucking politics as usual. DK is going to do better than you might think in Cali. If he doesn't, then shame on them!

[GreenArrow]

6. yep,

not even a PRETENSE of basic fairness. The candidate has been decided.

[Terry_M]

2. I completely agree

[newyawker99]

47. Hi Terry_M!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[KissMyAsscroft]

4. They didn't give the as much time because they didn't get as many votes.

If they got the most votes, it would be the other way around. And I doubt you would be complaining.

[angryinoville]

5. They didn't get the votes because...

the media won't take them seriously, and therefore the people shouldn't either.

[Sandpiper]

12. The reason they didn't get the votes

Is because they're fringe candidates.

[diamondsoul]

17. Bullshit.

buy the hype if you like but don't try to stuff it down our throats!

They've been PAINTED as "fringe candidates" and you do nothing but perpetuate it.

[Sandpiper]

18. You're right, it's one big conspiracy

And the voters of 20 states have all been in on it. :eyes:

[diamondsoul]

25. Right, it's a big eyerolling joke

instead. US media has been feeding us this BS for who knows how long and NOW that we're at the most critical moment, suddenly it's supposed to be acceptable? They hype things the way they want people to view them and half the country buys into the sh*t. Apparently that includes you.

It's ok if the media controls what information the voters get as long as your guy is getting enough to make a splash. As long as it's only the "fringe" people like me they attempt to silence.:eyes: Rightbackatcha, babe.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Frederic Bastiat]

27. LOL

Nice one.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Why do you marginalize legitimate criticism of the media?

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem, and giving excuses for the way the media has marginalized certain candidates is becoming an accomplice with them.

I am not surprised that the Democratic establishment is a strong supporter of media concentration.

[redqueen]

42. Because this time the media is on their side

When the media was doing as Kerry and Edwards did, backing up bush on his war lies, and convincing the American public that saddam was a 'grave and gathering danger', democrats everywhere and liberals too were outraged. We saw the media doing the spin-cycle, and called them on it. The outpouring of sentiment was sincere and earnest (after all, we knew this was a matter of life and death).

When most editorials were in favor of war, and backed bush's lies (like some candidates), we recognized it for what it was -- propoganda.

Ah, but now, now it's different!

Now, the media is telling them what they want to hear, so ... are you really surprised?

I mean, it's fair to be outraged and disgusted, but surprised? I'm not, not anymore. I was at first, but no more.

[GreenArrow]

8. they don't get as many votes

cause they don't get as much time.

It runs both ways.

[peaches2003]

35. Have had plenty of time

Both Kucinich and Sharpton have had months to get their message across. It's not like this was the first debate. They've crossed the country over and over, spoken everywhere, been in debate and debate. It's the American people who have made them fringe candidates. Now it's time for the candidates who are going to have the chance of being nominated to have their debates without time being alloted to the fringe candidates any longer. The people have made their choice and that is not the media's fault. Sharpton and Kucinich have had the opportunity and have been rejected.

[theoceansnerves]

10. then they should have said that at the beginning of the debate

"john kerry and john edwards have received more votes so far, therefore they will be given the majority of the time in this debate."

[dweller]

11. bullshit

that is nothing more than bullshit.

the media has you lock stock and barrel and your 'insight' just parrots their lies.

"The thing is," he said, "if you
depend on the media for your life, for approval, then you end up being bound by its logic. I don’t, so I’m not."
http://www.nypress.com/17/8/news&columns/cage.cfm


dp

[Kanary]

19. Actually, Dennis is a gentleman, and a true Democrat

He wouldn't treat your candidate the way he has been treated, so.... the issue of "we wouldn't be complaining" wouldnt' come up.

Kanary

[corporatewhore]

7. well they both make me think of the john

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truizm]

13. Agreed.

[RichM]

14. I agree. I thought the quality of this debate stunk. It stunk in format,

in fairness, & in content. The moderator stunk triple. The journalists stunk. The front runner stinks, & the challenger is mainly a remarkably attractive re-packaging of very traditional fare. The only guys who don't stink were the two that were scarcely allowed to talk, down at the far end of the table.

Of these two, Al is enough of a street fighter, that he fought his way into the discussion, despite King's best efforts to exclude him. And DK sat there, with typical dignity, enduring this outrageous treatment. The guy who has the best stuff to say, is scarcely allowed to talk, & happens to be too decent to ram his way in.

Our society & and our media make me want to hurl. :puke::puke:

[liberty rising]

15. I agree. Kucinich was actually saying something

and he and Sharpton got little time, and very little respect from the moderator (Larry King) and from Edwards and Kerry. Their arrogance and demeaning attitude toward Kucinich and Sharpton infuriates me...

KUCINICH AND SHARPTON are the ONLY CANDIDATES expressing ideas that mean something, that make sense, that would lift this country out the darkness.

Kucinich has conviction, he has a platform, he has detailed plans of action--regarding universal health care, regarding an exit strategy in Iraq, regarding jobs and education--these are not 'fringe' issues or ideals. Kucinich is the lone voice of intelligence, integrity and courage in the dem sea of blandness and spinelessness...and he and Sharpton are being categorically dismissed, not only by the media, but by their own party.

Wake up America--fear not the truth.

KUCINICH/SHARPTON IN NOVEMBER.

[Kanary]

20. Hi liberty rising!

Welcome to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

:toast:

Agree completely with what you are saying.

Will add that considering what he is up against, what Dennis is accomplishing is
nothing short of phenomenal!

Kanary

[question everything]

16. I thought that Sharpton got his two cents, and then some

Certainly got in some of the best lines.

[emulatorloo]

21. Quite Frankly, I thought DK and AS did well and said a lot

and despite the format, managed to hit their issues, get their points across, and get good audience response.

[diamondsoul]

26. Yeah, they did....not that anyone but you

is mentioning that today, though. Noooo, it's all about Edwards and Kerry tangling about "electability".

The NYT article by Nagourney and someone else this morning fails to even mention Kucinich except as a side-note and mentioned Sharpton only twice in the same way.

[doc03]

39. Kucinich and Sharpten say what they think

While I don't agree with either one on everything a least I know where they stand. I will be voting for Kucinich in the Ohio primaries since he is against NAFTA and the WTO. There isn't a dimes worth of difference between Bush, Kerry or Edwards on NAFTA or WTO. I don't know where the hell Kerry stands on anything, and can't say much better for Edwards. It looks like Kerry will be our nominee and I will vote ABB.

[Streetdoc270]

51. Al is a great speaker

The party and the nominee should have a place for Al Sharpton in the next administration, he speaks with clarity and has many great ideas to offer the future of the Democratic party.

[CWebster]

22. That is about the extent of it. nt

[kstewart33]

23. Air time requirement

That you win a state by now for geez sake. DK and AS did not get a lot of air time because they should have quit the race a long time ago. Clark, Dean, and Lieberman know this--these two guys, however likable they may be, obviously don't get the message. They're like two NFL wildcard teams who, having lost in the first round of the playoffs, are hanging around the Super Bowl.

I like them both, but it's unfortunate.

[HFishbine]

24. I concur

There were two disgusting, although not unexpected, problems last night. The marginalization by the media of DK and AS, and the bullshit spewn by the front runners.

[Monte Carlo]

28. You can't take everything at face value.

During the election seasons, any contender candidate will march towards the center to capture votes. If their language sounds controlled and reserved, its because it is. You have to read between the lines.

[HFishbine]

31. "You have to read between the lines."

My how the Geroge Bush style of politics has infected the dmeocrats.

[Monte Carlo]

32. And?

George Bush didn't invent it, he's just really, really good at it. Nobody likes the language of politics, it's FUBAR, but we have to deal with it anyway.

[HFishbine]

33. I disagree

There were a number of presidents in my lifetime who got elected by being straight forward with the American people.

[Monte Carlo]

34. I'm having a hard time seeing that...

... about politicians that have gotten into office by being straightforward, especially in the recent decades.

[IndianaGreen]

29. The media marginalized Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton

beginning with Ted Koppel in the ABC News debate in which he referred to Dennis and Al as "vanity" candidates.

The format used in the CNN debate reinforced the marginalization of the two remaining real liberals in the campaign.

The bias of Larry King was quite apparent particularly when Larry labeled as "socialism" Dennis Kucinich's proposal for single payer universal health insurance.

[Freddie Stubbs]

36. The Democratic primary voters have been marginalizing them since NH

[rucky]

37. On the bright side

It takes Kerry 5 minutes to say what DK or AS can say in 30 seconds.

:shrug:

[MaggieSwanson]

38. I expected no less from Larry King

but I expected more from John Kerry and John Edwards.
And to all those who say Edwards is not an elitist, watch the debate again. He does a pretty good job of acting like one.

[angryinoville]

40. You noticed that too?

How much blather came out of the Johns' mouths? It absolutely sucked. Like I said before, let's mobilize a Kucinich in all of the upcoming states since we still have a choice. I'm in Massachusetts and I'll try to get people to vote for him.

[rucky]

41. What tipped me off is he calls himself a populist

populists don't call themselves populists. That's a word reserved for pundits & academic types - not populists.

[ChiefJoseph]

43. So?

"DK and Al barely got two words in. It was the John and John show."

Come on. That's because they're both running vanity campaigns and have no chance of winning the nomination.

[molly]

46. Nobody here wants to hear the truth

[GreenArrow]

49. "nobody here wants to hear the truth"

I love the irony!

[redqueen]

44. And your comments are why I belive Kucinich would win in a landslide

Can you imagine Jane and Joe Sixpack hearing a candidate speak plain ENGLISH! And not the GWB style, but real, American leader style!

I have every confidence that they would dismiss any ranting about Departments of Peace or space weapons bans in favor of their own self-interest (Americans are great at that if nothing else). Dennis can show them that they can have their health care needs met, their children better educated, and their social security NOT stolen to pay for UNENDING WARS.

[littlejoe]

62. I used to wear rose colored glasses, but I began bumping into

a lot of things.

[snoochie]

48. Contrast applause during the debates with the primary results.

Or polling results, for that matter. Seems to me people respond to their message. I guess they feel the message they agree with isn't strong enough.

:shrug:

[GreenArrow]

50. that's funny isn't it?

Dennis and Al have gotten the best response and most applause of any candidates throughout the debates, even while getting the least time to speak. A majority of people attending these debates, even those who aren't supporters seem to like what Dennis and Al are saying. But then the fear sinks in, and they gravitate towards the tried and true, the safe, the practical, and the bland. Americans love to talk about change, but they don't really want it, even when it's necessary.

[snoochie]

52. It's kinda sad

It's like they don't really believe in what they believe. I'm not saying be an extremist. But there's a difference between shoving your values in everyone's face and just standing up for them.

[GreenArrow]

57. it is sad

the slogan on your sig picture kind of says it all, unfortunately.

[littlejoe]

53. Just like we cannot blame baseball players for accepting the

tons of money thrown at them, we shouldn't blame the two Johns for using up all of the oxygen in the room at the debate.

It was the moderator and questioners who directed most everything toward the two frontrunners.

Were the two candidates not supposed to answer? Were the two candidates supposed to give their time to the two lesser ones?

Hardly.

Don't hate the players for it. Hate the game.

[snoochie]

54. This is not a game

People are dying in Iraq. More and more families are slipping into poverty and homelessness.

When baseball players whore themselves out it's considered part of their job. But lives are not on the line.

When politicians whore themselves out it SHOULD BE considered a betrayal of their oath of office. And lives are STILL being lost in an unnecessary, illegal occupation which they could have protested more successfully.

:grr:

[littlejoe]

59. It was a metaphor.

[littlejoe]

61. You sure like to use the word "whore" a lot!

[Uzybone]

55. Its just whining

Kerry and Edwards are running to win the nomination not to see who can expose more of their flanks to Kooch or Sharpton. How can any sensible person criticize a candidate for using the time the (ineffectual) moderators give him?

[revcarol]

56. You just pushed my button.

If the candidates and their tunnel vision supporters cannot see that it is in the interest of the Democratic Party to appear as the "fair" party, the party that listens to all and includes all, then there's no hope.

How many votes would one of the Johns have gotten if he had said to King, " Wait a minute, now.I THINK YOU SHOULD GIVE CONGRESSMAN KUCINICH AN OPPORTUNITY TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION."(One of the many questions he didn't get to answer.)

THAT would have brought down the house.

Whining, NO.

[littlejoe]

60. My god, man, get real!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

58. Sharpton got lots of words in

Kucinich didn't fare so well. The moderators clearly marginalized them but Dennis could have been a bit more pro-active in his own desire to be heard. The one time he got to make a statement, he didn't get off on point.

[Iverson]

63. You mean it wasn't a neutral meritocracy?

I am scandalized!!