Edwards response on the death penalty question just turned me off

[dflprincess]

So Kucinich is my first choice. And I've be vacillating for who I'd root for if Kucinich dropped out. The seesaw is now tilted toward Kerry. (Though I will support the nominee)

[GreenArrow]

1. agreed.

Edwards support of the death penalty is a no-sale as far as I'm concerned.

[adadem]

4. agree, too

he didn't make the case...sounded like pandering.

[MAlibdem]

2. king tried to get kerry on one of those emotional-shock value questions

kerry handled it perfectly

[arewethereyet]

7. so kid killers could be innocent but terrorists can't ?

I suppose its perfectly normal for him to be on both sides of any question.

At least Edwards is knowledgable enough to know that there are problems to be solved in capital punishment process.

[Bread and Circus]

46. Edwards failed miserably on this...he sounded pathetic

:eyes:

I think Kerry rocked on this question.

[Protagoras]

41. King said a week or so ago he wouldn't do the Dukakis

question....So instead he asked the 5 year old question. So lame Larry.

[liberalcanuck]

3. His response about the IWR was not a winner for me either.

He's too wishy-washy IMO. Whether you agree /w Kerry or not, at least he gave a straight answer.

[atre]

42. Wha-Wha-What?

Kerry is the only one who panders to both sides of the IWR debate.

[Bombtrack]

5. Well you're in the small minority of people who think taxpayer money is

well spent keeping the most deplorable people In America who will never contribute anything to society well fed and sheltered and watching tv to the tune of over 100 thousand dollars a year each.

Instead of spending that money investing in a society where people on the margins of society don't become suceptable to a path that leads them to becoming more of those deplorable rapists and murderors.

70 percent of Americans aren't right about everything, but theirs is the more sane position on this in my opinion

[WillyBrandt]

6. Whatever. It costs more money to kill them, and you kill innocent

lives. Kerry's right on this.

[Bombtrack]

9. Actually there is no proof that the US government has ever killed

an innocent person with the death penalty

Even if they had, the rest would still be justified with todays technology and procedures

[WillyBrandt]

11. Do you seriously believe no innocents have been killed?

[Bombtrack]

18. I have no way of knowing, and even if 1 or 2 were

it's not worth throwing out the whole practice when new technology makes that unneccessary

[Beaker]

47. would you still feel that way-

if you or someone you loved were one of those "1 or 2"...?

BTW- in Illinois, 12 people sitting on Death Row were found to be innocent of the crime for which they were sentenced...I'm sure the number of dead innocents is more than "1 or 2"

[KittyWampus]

51. I Have A Feeling Bombtrack Isn't Black

and has no clue how easy it is to arrested for being black and railroaded for being black AND poor.

[Iris]

59. good point

[redqueen]

53. Benjamin Franklin thought otherwise...

That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one
innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and
generally approved.
-- Benjamin Franklin


And a few more good ones just for the hell of it:


The rotten apple spoils his companion.
-- Benjamin Franklin

He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
-- Benjamin Franklin

Poverty often deprives a man of all spirit and virtue; it is hard for
an empty bag to stand upright.
-- Benjamin Franklin

[sangh0]

62. Why don't you have any way of knowing?

Could it be that the govt won't fund any investigations on this on the lip-serviced basis that "they already had a trial", which is really a cover for "We don't want to learn about our mistakes?"

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

27. Bush Almost Killed Christopher Ochoa

I'm sure you know the story. Another man serving time sent Texas Governor Bush a letter admitting that he committed the crime for which Ochoa was serving. Bush filed the letter and never revealed the confession to Ochoa's attorneys. Fortunately, Ochoa managed to get off, but after Bush left the Governorship to become President.

I don't think there's much of an incentive to prove that an innocent man was killed by the State after the fact. The damage has been done and the State is not going to reopen an old crime unless it is legally compelled. This is particularly true because our criminal justice system in the United States is highly politicized: District Attorneys, and to a lesser extent Judges, are largely elected officials, not appointed, and they would tend to follow the course of least political controversy. We do know that a significant number of individuals have been released after additional and more updated testing was done. We also know that others on death row never had the opportunity to benefit from additional testing before they were executed. What do you do if the evidence has become contaminated or lost over time and cannot be retested? What do you do if witnesses have died or otherwise become unavailable? Maybe most Americans agree that the death penalty is appropriate, but it may be a character flaw in the average American. Most of the civilized world would disagree. The execution of an innocent man has got to be one of the most unfortunate realities in our society. And incarcerating someone for life is not exactly the same as allowing a guilty person to go free. Life imprisonment is hell.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. Another case of a wrongly condemned innocent

was documented by Errol Morris in the 1988 documentary The Thin Blue Line, in which Randall Adams, a Texas man who had never been in trouble before, was railroaded onto Death Row for allegedly killing a Dallas policeman.

He was still on Death Row when the documentary demonstrated how he couldn't possibly have committed the crime and that the supposed "eyewitnesses" were not credible, and luckily, the evidence presented in the film was enough to get his conviction overturned.

But what of the wrongly condemned people who aren't lucky enough to attract the attention of a crusading filmmaker?

If you haven't seen this film, it's currently in rotation on the Independent Film Channel. Highly recommended.

[avb7]

29. You are for the death penalty because

it does not waste the taxpayers money on prisoners watching TV and getting fat and you don't see any evidence of any mistakes. Those seem to be pretty poor reasons for backing the maximum penalty. With or without evidence I would be hard pressed to believe that no innocent person was ever executed on the Federal or State level. The law of politically motivated prosecutors and financially challenged defendants makes that impossible. My opposition to the death penalty is not based on a faint heart or my feelings for the skells who commit these crimes, I just don't think we as citizens should grant the ultimate power of life and death to the government. They are in possession of vast amounts of power and they haven't shown me that they handle it with great care. Put the guilty under the jail forever and take away their TV's, but don't trust government with the ultimate penalty.

[Bombtrack]

31. No the economic argument is only what makes me not anti-penalty

the justice/vengeance argument is what puts me solidly on the pro-death penalty side. I highly doubt that .0001 percent of anti-death penalty people have had a close family member raped or murdered by a person who just gets jail time. Until they do, they have no grounds in my opinion to tell grieving families that they are uncivilized

[avb7]

36. Just jail time?

You make it sound like life in prison is a walk in the park. Don't believe everything you see on television, prison sucks. As far as the vengeance/justice thing I don't see the need for the state to seek retribution just to satisfy the political side of the equation. Dropping the hammer doesn't make everything OK, all it does is make for a sound bite about "closure". The state isn't executing people to make the families feel better, they are doing it for their own interests and to satisfy a political constituency. If it was all on the up and up every country in the world would have the law on the books. Look around, the old red white and blue is on the short side of the stick in that area.

[Beaker]

48. vengence IS uncivilized.

no two ways about it.

[Iris]

60. yes

[newyawker99]

64. Hi avb7!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[HFishbine]

44. Ah, well, when you put it that way

You provide another fine example of of where Edwards is morally adrift.

[mrgorth]

54. Agreed 100%.

[Armand]

8. I'm for the death penalty 100%.

I mean...why have murderer's and rapists running around and attacking again? I think the death penalty deals with them properly. Sure...a few innocent people have been executed, but most of those death row deserve their fate.

[Bombtrack]

10. You've also baught into the anti-death penalty propaganda on one point

there has never been proof of one innocent person executed under capital punishment in the modern era.

[WillyBrandt]

12. That's because people barely bother looking into

the cases once the people are dead. I find the acquittals of those on death row more convincing than the lack of proof you cite.

[democratreformed]

58. I think you have a good point.

More convincing to me as well, are the acquittals.

[Nicholas_J]

13. There has been proof

That a lot of people sitting on death row would have been if it had not been for recently allowed DNA evidence. In the last ten years, 25 percent of all peopple on death row have been releasse with the result of DNA evidence. Which is clearly indicative that prior to DNA evidence being accepted, a lot of innocent people have been sitting on death row, and with that percentage being released as a result of new technologies, it is obvious that some people have been put to death for crimes they did not commit, for lack of evidence that would have proven them innocent.

Now the only question a person must ask thmeselves is whetther it is justifiable to kill a percentage of innocent peopple in order to make sure you get more guilty ones. Or is it better to lock the assumed guilty up, in order to be certain that you absoltely do not execute a few innocent people.

I find the latter solution, due to the fact that judges,prosecutors, police, and those involved with the legal process are just as human and succeptible to corruption, self serving behavior, and error, is the most just solution.

Though Kerry has stated that he would apply it towwards terrorist who have killed in the process of comiting acts of terrorism, therefore outright acts of war against citizens and non-combattants during what is essentially a war would be jstifiable under military law. Kerry has also stated that he is still not quite comfortable with this as a solution for terrorists as well. But if you have just caught a terrorist who has survived his attempt, and are certain that this person has actually taken part in the events, then the chance for error is non-existant. Kerrys opposition to the death penalty is based on his experience as a prosecutor, and based on this experience, he has stated he has seen that the system is slanted towards convincting anyone, sometimes unjustly, in order to satisfy the public demand that someone be held accopuntable for a murder. And that the system frequently tries to fill that demand by witholding evidence, and convicting innocent people in order to meet that demand.

[Bombtrack]

15. No, there hasn't. People have been released from death row

but not executed. There is no proof in the modern era of someone who's been executed in America being proven innocent

[Bread and Circus]

49. This is getting very old, the point is taken.

[formernaderite]

50. But Kerry has previously stated he didn't believe in the death penalty....

...for terrorists. Which is it? He sometimes believes in the death penalty? You can't have it both ways. You either support or are against the death penalty. Both Kerry and Edwards are trying to paint themselves as middle of the road, with no clear position...it's quite maddening.

[Armand]

14. There's been proof that people have been falsly executed.

Some people have gone back into cases and noticed they have killed the wrong people.

I don't have any exact cases of that right off the bat.

[Bombtrack]

19. because they don't exist.

The anti-Death penalty lobby has done a very good job of getting their false propaganda beleived by even regular people who are for the death penalty

[Armand]

23. Read this...it proves my case.

http://www.aclu.org/DeathPenalty/DeathPenalty.cfm?ID=9316&c=65

[Bombtrack]

28. It doesn't prove your case that innocence of an executed prisoner

has been proven.

Only that not-guiltily proven people have been let off of death row

[BootinUp]

30. I have one comment

INNOCENT UNTIL proven guilty, its the law.

;)

[OhioStateProgressive]

34. well

I'd say that, in fact, taking into consideration all death penalty cases from the beginning of this country, yes, a preponderance of LOGIC tells us that there have been innocents killed

[lams712]

16. I agree

I don't like the whole "state's rights" agrument re: the death penalty and gay marriage.

To me the whole "state's rights" agrument is so much 1950's segregationist talk, ya know.

[milkyway]

17. In Edwards defense, it's difficult for a Southern politician to remain a

politician if he opposes the death penalty. I wonder if he truly supports it, or if he just feels he has to.

[Bombtrack]

20. It's "difficult" for any politician who wants to win national office

70 percent of americans support the death penalty. Something in the high teens apposes it

[BootinUp]

21. John Kerry expressed his DP position with more emotion

than I've ever seen him show before. I think he can sell this to America.

Edwards is just such a politician, occasionally he gives me a sick stomache.

[Bombtrack]

24. Maybe that's because he NEVER expresses emotion

it doesn't take much.

[BootinUp]

25. yea, thats one way to see it

heh

[TheDonkey]

22. he did ok with the question. Of course Kerry has the right stance

but it's a popular issue Edwards sided with.
wrong though.

[Bombtrack]

26. Edwards "sided with", I like how psychic all these anti-Edwards people are

maybe Edwards doesn't get where a small minority of high-fallutant anti-death penalty people get off telling the family of some child who's just been murdered that the person who did that should be clothed, fed, and given tv and gym access for the rest of everyones lives. Edwards DOES no what it's like to lose a child

[Uzybone]

38. you watch too much HBO

I'm sure the prisoners in max security also get free porn, a pool table and unlimited access to a casino. Prison for life isn't some sort of luxury.

[Sugarbleus]

32. Yeah, I just re viewed the debate and caught that thing Edwards

said about Death Penalty. I like how Sharpton didn't let it pass but put him to the test asking if the system is broken, shouldn't you suspend the death penalty until it's fixed..and the answer was no.
Pretty telling; if the man can't think his own ideas through on something like that, then what kind of Prez is he going to make.
hmmmm

[mikehiggins]

33. Let's just step back from that for a moment, shall we?

His response was "fix the system"?

I am awed by his insight and brilliance.

Fix the system. Wow!

[BootinUp]

35. We'll fix it right after we

throw the swtich on this bastard!

:scared:

[no name no slogan]

37. Glad to have you aboard!

Visit www.minnesotaforkucinich.com for some good stuff about caucusing for Kucinich next Tuesday.

Also, there's a lot of visibility stuff going on for DK in MN, too. We're a pretty active bunch around here, if you hadn't noticed already!

:D

[genius]

39. At least Edwards was talking about a hate crime. But I'm for abolition.

The death penalty is the worst attrocity in America and we need to end it.

This is the number one reason I switched from Dean to Kucinich.

[Protagoras]

40. agreed, very unimpressed

Especially when Sharpton even tried to give him the option of suspending it while the flaws he admitted to were fixed.

[Piperay]

43. I still think Edwards gave a better

response than Dukasis did back in 1988, that probably lost Dukasis the election along with his "Rocky the Flying Squirrel" escapade. :-(

[union_maid]

45. Dukakis lost the election so many ways...

The Belgian endive remark comes to mind. Edwards stance on the death penalty is more in line with our blood thirsty culture, but we're out of step with the civilized world. We need to figure out why we kill each other so much. Kerry was right on this one and it's a brave stance. And he has loads of non-wimp capital to back it up.

[efront]

52. Yes, his answer turned off the far left--2% of the country,

but it definitely appealed to the majority of the country.

[redqueen]

55. Welcome to the Movement!

:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. I'll be caucusing for Kucinich, too!

:hi:

since there's no chance of Dennis dropping out before Tuesday!

[tryanhas]

61. You all are so CLUELESS...

...about what it takes to be elected that it's pathetic.

So, he supports the Death Penalty???

WHO THE HECK CARES!!!

Only the DU cares!

Most people in this country support the death penalty.

Change the name of this community from, "THE DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND," to the "WE LOVE LOSING ELECTIONS WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!"

You people have no clue whatsoever about what it takes to be elected, and Edwards isn't just pandering!

He said that he supports the death penalty, so that makes him like 3/4ths of Americans, duh!

[Armand]

63. Amen to that!

Let's focus on the bigger issues here.