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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:59 PM
Original message
Racial tensions roil Democratic race

Racial tensions roil Democratic race

By: Ben Smith
Jan 11, 2008 03:04 PM EST
Updated: January 11, 2008 06:41 PM EST

<...>

“To say that there is a pattern of racist comments coming out of the Hillary campaign is ridiculous,” said Ohio Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones. “All of the world knows the commitment of President Clinton and Sen. Clinton to civil rights issues — and not only the commitment in terms of words but in terms of deeds.”

Referring to the King quote, Sheila Jackson Lee, another Clinton supporter, said Clinton was trying to contrast King and Obama, not to diminish King: "It really is a question of focusing on the suggestion that you can inspire without deeds — what is well-known to the child who studies Dr. King in school is that yes, he spoke, but he also moved people to action."

But other black Clinton supporters found themselves wincing at the Clintons’ words, if not questioning their intent.

A Harlem-based consultant to the Clinton campaign, Bill Lynch, called the former president’s comments “a mistake” and said his own phone had been ringing with friends around the country voicing their concern.

“I’ve been concerned about some of those comments — and that there might be a backlash,” he said.

<...>

Now, though, some of those old patterns are reasserting themselves.

The series of comments Clinton critics’ cite began in mid-December, when the chairman of Hillary Clinton’s New Hampshire campaign, Bill Shaheen, speculated about whether Obama had ever dealt drugs. In the final days of the New Hampshire campaign, however, the discomfort of some black observers intensified as Bill Clinton dismissed the contrast between Obama’s judgment on the war and Clinton’s as a “fairy tale” and spoke dismissively of his short time in the Senate. And the candidate herself, in an interview with Fox News, stressed the role of President Lyndon Johnson, over Martin Luther King Jr., in the civil rights movement.

“I would point to the fact that Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, when he was able to get through Congress something that President Kennedy was hopeful to do, the president before had not even tried, but it took a president to get it done,” she said, in response to a question about how her dismissive attitude toward Obama’s “false hopes” would have applied to the civil rights movement. “That dream became a reality, the power of that dream became real in people's lives because we had a president who said we are going to do it and actually got it accomplished.”

more


Taking a Deep Breath

01.11.08 -- 5:44PM
By Josh Marshall

It is remarkable, or perhaps it's not so remarkable, how rapidly this punching match over race has escalated between the Clinton and Obama camps. Even calling it that is perhaps controversial in itself.

I'm discussing this with you because it's quickly become a complicated editorial issue for us to deal with.

It's genuinely unclear to me how much one side or the other is consciously pushing this, how much it's escalated based in part on misunderstandings, or whether, in a somewhat related fashion, hyping journalistic accounts has given the engagement a life of its own.

Some of the statements recently attributed to the Clintons have seemed at best awkward in how they're discussing race and the civil rights movement, others have struck me as unobjectionable statements interpreted in a tendentious fashion.

You can see in our news section we've picked up the story just out from The Guardian which quotes some unidentified "Clinton advisor" saying: "If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool."

Now, as I said, I have a bit of a hard time knowing what's going on here. If this is really the word the Clinton campaign wants its surrogates putting out, they're really much stupider than I could have imagined. On the other hand, 'advisor' is a notoriously slippery phrase that can mean almost anything. Campaigns have hundreds, perhaps thousands of people who in one fashion or another 'advise' them. A lot of those people aren't under any kind of real control. And if a reporter talks to enough of them one of them is bound to say something stupid. On the other hand, you have to rely on the journalist and the news outlet not to send you down the wrong path or give you the sense that this is a Clinton insider rather than just someone spouting off.

more



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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. I liked TPM's comment
but how come racism is getting such play, when cries of sexism aren't examined at all? Not trying to start a war, but I don't remember last week there being this kind of angst about charges of sexism - a lot of back and forth, yes, but not the level of hand-wringing and fear that has emerged today. I guess race is more explosive a topic but they would seem to be on par to me.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "how come racism is getting such play"
Sorry, did you miss the firestorm of over the alleged tears? Gloria Steinem's op-ed in the NYT?

There are legitimate concerns here.
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes, I saw all that
but it didn't seem to be the level of concern that the topic had even been broached that there is with respect to charges of racist comments. It's almost like, hey, this is too hard to talk about, so stop complaining when people make racist comments.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. "this is too hard to talk about"
Not sure I follow you, what's "hard to talk about"?

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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Charges of racism nt
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I consider neither the silly "tears" coverage or Steinem's fluffery "legitimate concerns"
The discussion is losing and the stupid is winning. Legitimate concerns are things like balancing the budget, restoring the Bill of Rights, stopping the generational assault on abortion rights, reversing global warming, and ending the bloody occupation of Iraq.

Things that are not legitimate concerns include....
"Did Hillary really cry?"
"Are women always victims in politics?"
"Is Obama a misogynist?"
"Is Clinton a bigot?"
"Is Edwards a racist for having been born in the South and running against Obama?"
"Does Kucinich believe in UFOs?"


There are forces in this world that economically and politically benefit when the electorate falls into dumb discussion traps. The thing most worth considering is whether we want to help those forces by following these red herrings?
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Couldn't agree more.
I wish the voters would focus on the problems and solutions instead of the charisma of their candidates.
There's a war on Americans.
Its being waged by big money.
Both political parties readily agree on stimulus for business: there's plenty of bipartisanship on corporate welfare.

But both parties disappear (I guess thats bipartisanship in its own way) when its time to make hard choices favoring HUMAN citizens over corporate citizens.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Here's the problem:
The candidates define the race. These issues aren't being discussed around them, most of the comments, and spin, are coming from inside the campaign.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I would say that is unclear and in fact is one of the questions
raised in your op.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. My impression is that the comments & spin come from the periphery of the 2 camps
I think TPM's take (as always) is right on the money. Some of the comments are considerably less than polished and the feeding frenzy over how some minor operative can hype out a poor word choice from a minor operative from the other camp is what comes to define the news coverage. The media want a battle, they want blood and spitting and testosterone.

But candidates themselves are falling for the idiocy. Obama and Clinton ought to get out front, separately or together, and denounce the bullshit and specifically denounce the folks in the news media who are hyping the bullshit distractions.

The problem is taht instead both are playing the game on the game's terms and are hoping that an accumulation of bad spin working against their opponent will be what gives them the vital margin of victory. By hoping to benefit from the silliness, they unwittingly feed the silliness.

In the end, I don't think it'll matter. One or the other will get the nomination and all the real Democrats will kiss, make up, and fall into line. That's always what we do. That's what democracy is.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. "In the end, I don't think it'll matter." Agree,
it's all politics!

That's was my take on the tear episode.



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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. The periphery. Really, the periphery...
Is Jesse Jackson Jr. the god damn periphery - he is national Co-fucking-Chair. He made up a lie and said Hillary cried because she had a bad hair day. He said her tears need to be analyzed. The boys club (known as our corporate media) will not report it because it doesn't matter - its just a little playful chauvinist pig chatter. Or maybe they are just sustaining the "man" made wave.

So who got upset - me and three other people. The fucking media simply won't call out his misogynist drivel. This board barely touch on it. It doesn't matter - its 2008 and you can still say any god damn stupid thing you want to about women. They don't fucking matter - they are only 57% of the voting public.

Bastards.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. And I said they were?
I was speaking of the issues in the OP, specifically the issue raised in the TPM piece.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. very well stated bucky. nt
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. And if the Dem party is divided over race, who wins?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Maybe the candidates should ask themselves that question. n/t
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Exactly.. they ALL should- and so should people here.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
16.  I really hope this ends soon. Like tomorrow.
I am an Obama supporter, but I think that if this turns into a referendum on race, he is bound to lose. It's just too hot as an issue to be a winner. Turning this contest into a discussion about race only benefits the Clinton campaign in two ways: it undermines the narrative the Obama campaign has fostered, which is to make this an election about change, and (mercifully) it mutes the gender narrative republicons (for the most part) have used against Sen Clinton.
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