Nevada's Jon Ralston interviews Kerry: "Health care didn't pass in 1994 if I recall."

[BeyondGeography]

From MSNBC's First Read:

==The go-to guy for political news and analysis in Nevada is Jon Ralston. He has a must-read email. From one of his flashes last night: He interviewed John Kerry thanks to Kerry cold-calling Ralston... “Ralston asked Kerry why he picked Obama instead of his former running mate and the former first lady. "The times are different," Kerry said. "The times demand different things." He said Obama's race will not be an impediment to "most Americans... This is 2008... I think most Americans are way beyond that."

“But what about Clinton's argument that talking change is different than producing change? Listen to this, dear Flashees: "He produced one of the most significant ethics reform bills we passed. He has been a legislator longer than Hillary Clinton." And then this zinger: "Health care didn't pass in 1994 if I recall."==

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/11/571034.aspx

[Frances]

1. I supported Kerry enthusiastically in 2004

and I may vote for Obama Feb 5.

But the health care failure in 1994 just made Hillary understand the corporate culture. She is far better prepared to fight it than Obama who is still very naive and more likely to be tripped up by corporate lies.

[BeyondGeography]

3. She ran a closed process and there are no signs whatsoever that she has learned

from that, if her attitude toward transparency in government is any indication.

Obama would use open, public hearings on health care to mobilize opinion in favor of universal care. It's the antithesis of what was done in 1994 and far different than what you could expect from HRC.

[Armstead]

4. Um, the problem was that the Clintons were trying to placate the industry

Their "reform" was so convoluted and baroque that no one could figure it out.

And "managed competition" was nothing more than finding a way to increase the power of the big insurers.

[Frances]

10. Do you remember the commercials?

They came on the air constantly. If the corporations would have benefitted from the plan, why would they have spent so much money opposing Hillary's plan?

Why hasn't Obama already tackled this issue in the Senate?

Why hasn't John Kerry done so?

I may vote Obama but I hate seeing Hillary blamed for fighting the good fight and losing.

Besides, part of the reason she lost was because people were so mad at Bill for sticking up for gays in the military.

Am I the only one that actually remembers those times?

[BootinUp]

12. No you are not

the only one that remembers.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Yep, and the ads were out even before her plan came out

She had no PR strategy; didn't even think to have one. It was one of the most inept processes Washington has ever seen.

[wyldwolf]

16. I remember those times. Forget the right wing for a moment. The LEFT was whining about it, too!

While Clinton's plan wasn't the fruition of the left's pipe dream of single payer health care in the US, it would have been damn better than the system we have.

But, as always, "progressives"* want all or nothing.

[terisan]

27. She was inexperienced but willing to try for more than HOPE !

[bread_and_roses]

31. Because Corporations (and the RW) fight ANY intrusion into unfettered free-marketeerism

RWers do the same. It's about control, not about what "hurts" them. They oppose raising the minimum wage too - or in the last analysis, any minimum wage - not because it hurts them but because it is an imposition of on their total "market freedom." Which is smart strategy. A lot smarter than going to the bargaining table with the lowest offer possible, which is what our Democrats unfortunately seem to do most of the time.

Hillary's health care plan was, as someone up thread said, a convoluted mess that no one could understand. It was easy to demonetize. Despite its Corporate-friendliness, it was unacceptable to them because it would have been a first step in a direction they oppose. And its defeat set any threat of health care reform back a decade, at least. However, its passage would have done little to avert the health care crisis, and might also have set the discussion back years.

I remember those times quite well. And maybe we "lefties" (most of whom have also worked on and supported incremental change, for all the good it has done, which isn't much) have enough sense not to alienate both our supporters and our enemies at the same time. Or, at the least, to know who our enemies are. In this case, the for-profit health care industry.

[Armstead]

50. That's why I support Single Payer Universal

No matter how much we try to placate the Insurance Industry and the Right-Wingers, they are going to fight any kind of reform.

So, since they will be against anything that's even mild or moderate, why not go after the real goal -- and do it from a position that it's best for the majority.

[wyldwolf]

2. It didn't pass in 2004, 2006, 2007, or 2008, Sen. Kerry. Why is that?

[ProSense]

7. Because unlike 1992 - 1995, there wasn't a Democratic president and Senate majority

102nd Congress (1991-1993)

Majority Party: Democrat (56 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (44 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

103rd Congress (1993-1995)

Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (43 seats)

Other Parties: 0

Total Seats: 100

Note: Party division changed to 56 Democrats and 44 Republicans after the June 5, 1993 election of Kay B. Hutchison (R-TX).


<...>

108th Congress (2003-2005)

Majority Party: Republican (51 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)

Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)

Total Seats: 100

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

109th Congress (2005-2007)

Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)

Minority Party: Democrat (44 seats)

Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)

Total Seats: 100

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

110th Congress (2007-2009)

Majority Party: Democrat (49 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (49 seats)

Other Parties: 1Independent; 1 Independent Democrat

Total Seats: 100

more

How could you screw up passage of a bill with a Democratic president and 57 Democrats in the Senate?

[wyldwolf]

8. ..and Sen. Kerry refused to go to bat for himself in 2004...

[ProSense]

15. What does that have to do with health care not passing in 1994? n/t

[wyldwolf]

19. nothing. Why do you ask?

[terisan]

28. Because Dems have a history of not supporting their own. Same way we got Clarence Thomas on SC

[LiberalFighter]

5. What did Kerry mean by that remark? Health care didn't pass in 1994

[Bluerthanblue]

9. people criticize Obama for not laying out

very specific plans. And many of those same people point to their own plans (which don't have concrete grounding) in comparison.

Hillary's health care plan has been touted over Obama's here on a few occasions, and he's been villified for makeing the honest assessment that single payer healthcare isn't practical. It's great to have pie in the sky hopes. But if your history doesn't back them up, you'll have to expect that you will have to face that.
Being reminded of the failure of the promise of health care from the Clinton's in '92 is facing facts.

When people go on the attack, they have to expect to face defensive volleys.
:shrug:

[terisan]

30. Kerry used his long Senate experience to bring us universal single payer health care!

[LiberalFighter]

34. Where do I sign up? I didn't receive my notice.

And I suppose Obama has more expertise because he has less Senate experience.

[Cameron27]

47. Me too!

[BootinUp]

6. That ethics reform bill is flawed and Obama needs to come clean on this point

Obama is pretty slick, I just discovered this yesterday:



Fact Check: Sen. Obama's Bill Allows Lobbyists To Wine and Dine Members of Congress, As Long As They Are Standing Up
1/6/2008 2:11:40 PM

Last night, Sen. Barack Obama bragged that he passed lobbying reform that prohibited lobbyists from buying meals for members of Congress:

OBAMA: I just want to add, I agree with John, which is why I prohibited lobbyists from buying meals for members of Congress...
Sen. Obama forgot to mention that the bill still allowed lobbyists to wine and dine members of congress, as long as they were standing up. ABC News reports:

ABC News found caterers working overtime as once again lobbyists spared no expense to entertain members of Congress and their staffs. Under new congressional ethics laws, lobbyists can spend all they want on holiday parties as long as everyone is standing up.

"You can no longer eat sitting down," Ellen Miller, co-founder and executive director of the Sunlight Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to making government more accessible on the Internet, said. "There really has to be finger food. I think you can eat food that's on a toothpick, but if it requires a fork or knife, forget it."

And ABC News found plentiful spreads of catered food and well-stocked bars at elegant locations all over the capital -- the kind of expense only the well-funded can afford.

"There is no way we can compete with that kind of money and that kind of influence-peddling," Wiles said.

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=5060

[ProSense]

13. That's hilarious! Hillary's site is posting a complaint about the ethics bill?

Is it because it isn't her legislation?

FEINGOLD, OBAMA PUSH FOR STRONGEST ETHICS AND LOBBYING REFORM BILL POSSIBLE

Architects of Ethics and Lobbying Reform Bill Urge Senate Leaders to Maintain Provisions That Will Lead to Real Change in Way Washington Works

June 21, 2007

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senators Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Barack Obama (D-IL) are pushing for Congress to produce the strongest ethics and lobby reform bill possible. Feingold and Obama are urging several Senate leaders, who will play important roles in the bill’s fate as the Senate prepares to negotiate the final bill with the House of Representatives, to include several key provisions that passed the Senate but were left out of the House version of the bill. Feingold and Obama were two of the main architects of the Senate bill which passed in January with broad bipartisan support. Senate Majority Leader Reid hailed the bill as one of the most significant pieces of legislation dealing with ethics and lobbying reform in our nation’s history. Also signing the letter were all of the freshmen Democratic Senators including Senators Brown (D-OH), Cardin (D-MD), Casey (D-PA), Klobuchar (D-MN), McCaskill (D-MO), Sanders (I-VT), Tester (D-MT), Webb (D-VA), and Whitehouse (D-RI), who made cleaning up Washington crucial parts of their successful campaigns.

more

[BootinUp]

17. Sorry if the facts are humorous to you. Some of us would like

a little more of them from Obama.

[ProSense]

Humorous is Hillary complaining about Obama passing legislation. n/t

[BootinUp]

22. ...and then distorting it so he can attack her about lobbyists

[ProSense]

25. Distorting Hillary about lobbyist? Watch:

Yearly Kos: Hillary Clinton on Accepting Lobbyist Money

[BootinUp]

29. Obama on accepting lobbyist money: As long as we are standing when we take it

ITS A-OK!

LOL.

[ProSense]

33. He has a point:

[BootinUp]

37. so its just a small amount of hypocrisy

just enough to get him elected I guess. :eyes:

[ProSense]

39. Glad you can admit that Hillary is the bigger hypocrite. n/t

[BootinUp]

41. She hasn't lied about her record, why don't you stop before

you look worse.

[ProSense]

42. Worse? She is criticizing Obama for getting ethics reform passed! n/t

[BootinUp]

44. Does truth hurt if it passes through your brain? Read #6 again

the criticism is about the Hypocrisy.

[ProSense]

45. Read

#13 again. I'll help you out:

FEINGOLD, OBAMA PUSH FOR STRONGEST ETHICS AND LOBBYING REFORM BILL POSSIBLE
Architects of Ethics and Lobbying Reform Bill Urge Senate Leaders to Maintain Provisions That Will Lead to Real Change in Way Washington Works

June 21, 2007

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senators Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Barack Obama (D-IL) are pushing for Congress to produce the strongest ethics and lobby reform bill possible. Feingold and Obama are urging several Senate leaders, who will play important roles in the bill’s fate as the Senate prepares to negotiate the final bill with the House of Representatives, to include several key provisions that passed the Senate but were left out of the House version of the bill. Feingold and Obama were two of the main architects of the Senate bill which passed in January with broad bipartisan support. Senate Majority Leader Reid hailed the bill as one of the most significant pieces of legislation dealing with ethics and lobbying reform in our nation’s history. Also signing the letter were all of the freshmen Democratic Senators including Senators Brown (D-OH), Cardin (D-MD), Casey (D-PA), Klobuchar (D-MN), McCaskill (D-MO), Sanders (I-VT), Tester (D-MT), Webb (D-VA), and Whitehouse (D-RI), who made cleaning up Washington crucial parts of their successful campaigns.

What did Hillary do, except vote for Obama's bill? Action (Obama's) speaks louder than phony criticism (Hillary's).

[BootinUp]

46. So why is he distorting the facts on the campaign trail?

[BeyondGeography]

18. Reality check: Clinton also screamed at Feingold over campaign finance reform in 2002

==Senators Hillary Clinton and Russ Feingold engaged in a heated argument over the impact a new campaign finance law will have on Senate Democrats, Feingold said Friday. "'You're not living in the real world,"' Clinton screamed at him during the closed-door meeting Thursday, said Wisconsin's Feingold. "I picked up my glass of water, and said, 'I do live in the real world and I'm doing just fine in it,"' he said.==

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20020720/ai_n12474415

[BootinUp]

20. Obama making distorted claims

about his record is what we are talking about here.

[BeyondGeography]

21. Hillary's 35 years of change nonsense is what we're talking about here

See the OP.

[Anouka]

23. yeah, she shouldn't have gone there with that.

for the obvious reasons. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

43. "I prohibited lobbyists from buying meals for members of Congress"?

He personally prohibited lobbyists? That is conceited!

He didn't make that happen without the majority of Congress passing it.

Which bill is Obama talking about? The one that Senator Reid introduced in 2007 that was passed?

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. The left wing talking point: IT'S ALL CLINTON'S FAULT

[Anouka]

24. What does it say that it's a 'left-wing' talking point?

As you describe it.

But also, I do have to ask: what was the official reason why Hillary's health care plan didn't succeed in the 90s? and what improvements has her new plan made on the old to make it more palatable to those who are going to vote on it?

[SIMPLYB1980]

26. Universal Health care!

Just another "petty" fight that Clinton has been fighting for many years.

[here_is_to_hope]

32. Kerry is a weak knee'd wuss...

He should shut up if he has nothing good to say...
While I may not remember 1994...I certainly remember Kerry and Ohio...
I dislike Hillary but this is too much coming from B*shco's little brother.

[ProSense]

36. Is this what you remember:

Blogged by JC on 08.22.05 @ 04:19 PM ET

Fighting for Every Voter

A few more words about an issue that is of the utmost importance to me.

As political candidates, we spend considerable time and effort every election cycle fighting for votes. After the election, whether won or lost, many candidates leave the irregularities of the election behind. But we owe the voters more than that. When voters are disenfrachised, we owe it to them to seek justice and expose the truth. That is why I have been so proud of the Kerry-Edwards campaign's ongoing involvement in the investigation and litigation of what went wrong in Ohio. I wrote to the candidates recently to ask that they continue to be involved in this important endeavor.

This is not about the past. It is about figuring out what went wrong and why -- and then getting the next election right, not for the Democratic Party, but for all of the voters.

link

Since the 2004 election is being revisited, here are some facts:


I would love for people to "shut up if (they) has nothing good to say..."

But I don't always get my way.

[goldcanyonaz]

35. I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty...

[ProSense]

38. That was

The Best Speech I've Ever Seen

Another awesome speech.

[BeyondGeography]

40. Kerry can speechify with the best of them

and if Obama had his debating skils, this race would already be over.

[Inuca]

48. That's a good point

Obama is the better orator, but Kerry is the better debater. Maybe they will find the time for some coaching :-).

[rinsd]

49. Hmmm Bill Clinton became a failed statesman for wading into the game.

But I guess when its done for Obama, its okay.

:puke: