I attend an all white church

[cali]

Ok, I'm not exactly a faithful member of any church, but once in a while I attend a service here or there. And guess what? The people there are overwhelmingly white.

If you took a video camera into 95% of the churches around here, you'd film a bunch of white people- and that's it.

Why? I live in Vermont. That's why.

This shit about Obama's church is just repulsive. They do not exclude white people just because it's rooted in Black and African culture. The churches around here are rooted in White/Yankee culture. They don't exclude African Americans.

This is all such bullshit.

[Frances]

1. I agree

[kwassa]

2. Historically, black churches evolved due to segregation

Blacks weren't welcome in white churches, so they created their own, such as the African Methodist Episcopal, or had separate churches or branches of denominations within white church denominations.

[cali]

5. I understand that

I'm reacting to some specific shit that's been posted about Obama's church being separatist or even racist- and it's really gotten my dander up.

[kwassa]

12. I agree with you

There are unfortunately people who are extremely ignorant about religious practices in this country who are making pronouncements about it.

My church is extremely racially-mixed, but I am in the DC suburbs.

[Perky]

24. It predates segregation by about 200 years and has it roots in

a plantation mentality and has smething also to do with European as opposed to African expressions of faith.

[magatte]

29. Predates segragation?

As in you are suggesting that slaves CHOSE to go to a different church that their masters?

[Barack_America]

34. So it has its roots in slavery...

...When Whites most assuredly did not welcome blacks into their churches. That is what you are saying? What else "predates segregation by about 200 years"?

Are you of the opinion that these long-standing church communities should have been disbanded when blacks were deemed worthy of participating in white society? I don't get it.

[Anouka]

3. yes it is bullshit.

it's also revealing. the most segregated hour in America, indeed.... except some folks think their own segregation is what should be normal, and -- having never been told otherwise -- experience an unwanted overload when confronted with what feels like (to them) Poitier's 'White Man's Burden'.

Interesting, all in all.

[rateyes]

4. Don't know what you are referring to, but...

Sunday Morning at 11:00am is still the most segregated hour of the week here in the Bible Belt.

Pick up a book by Will Campbell entitled "The Stem of Jesse." The South is still living in the 1950's in many ways.

[cali]

9. Sounds like an interesting book. I'd love to read it.

I'm referring to the posts slamming Obama's church.

[neutron]

35. I don't know what he's referring to either

[cali]

11. Read this thread

and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. And be prepared to be disgusted by some of the posts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4030623&mesg_id=4030623

[rateyes]

28. You're right, cali...

glad we agree on something. Obama's church is UCC. It's probably the most progressive Christian denomination in the world. Sounds like his church is particularly one that adheres to liberation theology.

IMO, his membership in the UCC is a good thing.

Having said that...I'm still not voting for him, nor Hillary.

[geek tragedy]

6. Lots of racist bullshit being thrown Obama's way.

Desperate, immoral people opposed to his candidacy.

[KittyWampus]

7. Thanks, the chapter of the spiritual group I work with is not far from 50/50

But then, I have to travel 2 hours to get there and it's in NYC where people are more likely to blend.

[SoxFan]

8. Thank you!

In many cities with large Catholic populations, the churches have a historical ethnic identity. Here in Manchester, St. Joseph's Cathedral and St. Patrick's are "Irish". Ste. Marie's and Transfiguration are "French", and St. Hedwigs is "Polish". When I lived in New Orleans, I saw the same thing, with certain Catholc churches being viewed as Italian, some as German, some as old Creole French, and a handful as African-American.

[William769]

10. Luckily the Church I attend is a array of colors

It also loves all the children of the world and it's ministries does NOT exclude anyone.

[Adelante]

13. I don't attend any church

But I cannot believe that on DU there could be people calling for Obama to explain his church. We're talking about a very liberal church here, as it happens, but I'm amazed anybody cares what church a politician goes to. I wish there was less religion, not more, in politics, as it is, but freedom of religion is a right of all Americans. Yet some here are demanding he justify his own choice of church. This shit drives me bananas.

[kwassa]

14. there is a lot of anti-religious prejudice ....

among some parts of the "liberal" community. They despise any connection with religion at all.

[Thothmes]

15. From my experience

Churches seem to be some of the most heavily segregated social institutions in the United States.

[Highway61]

16. Amen n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

17. Is the first line on the "about" page of its website "we are an unashamedly white congregation"?

As issues in the election go, I think it's an exceptionally minor one, but I don't think it's a non-issue or bulshit.

Take a look at http://tucc.org/about.htm. Imagine changing all instances of "black" to "white", and "African" to "anglo-saxon" or "European".

In practice, I *suspect* that the reality of the Church isn't nearly as bad as the website, but I have no evidence for that.

I don't think that his church's apparent attitude to race is one of the 50 most important things about Barack Obama, though.

[cali]

19. No website, sorry.

And you're missing something vital here. It's about culture not race. Would you be shocked by a Jewish congregation saying on their website "We're an unashamedly Jewish congregation"?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. Black is a race, not a culture; Jewish is a silly word.

I'm partly Jewish, and therefor Jewish, but not Jewish (i.e. my mother is ethnically Jewish, and so I'm Jewish under hallachic law, but I'm not a practicing Jew).

Black is not ambiguous in the same way, though - saying "Fred is black" is making a statement about his race, not about his culture. No matter what choices I make, I will not be black; no matter what choices my uncle makes, he will be.

I would have no problems with a church website saying "we are unapologetically rooted in black culture". That very clearly isn't what this church website is saying.

If (as I think would be an excellent thing) there were separate words for a) someone racially Jewish; b) someone legally Jewish and c) someone religiously Jewish then I would be shocked by the use of word a) in the context you indicate.

[LanternWaste]

27. Yet many people would still consider

"would have no problems with a church website saying "we are unapologetically rooted in black culture". "

Yet many people would still consider it a racist remark.

The point being, a person can find insults even in places where they simply do not exist...

[madrchsod]

18. i used to sing in the choir when i was but a wee lad

then of course i left the straight and narrow but one day i attended our local "black" church and lo and behold the lady who used to play the piano for us was tickling the ivorys to gospel tunes....ya just never know-the lord works in mysterious ways....

yes it is all such bullshit isn`t it

[H2O Man]

20. Very good.

I agree with you on this. I think that some others are trying to stir fear and hatred into the primary discussions. We should reject that.

Nominated.

[Phx_Dem]

21. I read on the internets

That his church (TUCC) gave an award to Farrakhan. Rev. Wright, the pastor had this to say about LF:

"Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and
21st century giants of the African American religious experience,"
continues Wright. "His integrity and honesty have secured him a
place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics.
His love for Africa and African American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose."

I don't see anything on snopes debunking this, anyone have info?

[cali]

22. nope.

You provide no link, but I'll assume it's true, and I don't see why this is a problem. A lot of people in the AA community think highly of Farrakhan. Obama is not synonymous with the pastor at his church. Having said that, I do think that this could be used by the pukes in a general.

[Phx_Dem]

26. It's from a RW blog

I didn't see the need to post a link. Perhaps Obama should distance himself a bit more from Rev. Wright. A lot of Dems and Indis are not going to like the "Farrakhan connection" regardless of how the AA community feels.

[cloudythescribbler]

23. Let's get real and see the CHURNING of the race issue for what it is ...

What one DU OPer called a 'dog whistle' for white chauvinist opposition to Obama. HRC's remark, politely dubbed "peculiar" by the NY TIMES, about MLK and LBJ, then Andrew Cuomo's startling 'shuck and jive' remark, and now this.

Am I paranoid to see a pattern here? Note how the 'minstrel show' of the Repuke Convention in 2000 stirred up controversy similarly, with similar purposes and benefits to Repugs -- without any candidate running the serious risk of being tagged a "racist" in the MSM.

We Obama supporters just need to keep plugging along, and note especially the vast differential between how some nasty comments are treated much more lightly than others (eg open season on anyone questioning the exit polls v reported results out of NH)

[zozosmom]

30. Obama supporters conveniently IGNORE the sexists attacks on Hilllary

and when you compare yourself and your campaign to MLK and JKF- as Obama did-- and you have little to nothing in the way of experience to back it up then, commenting on such comparisons as Hillary did is FAIR GAME.

And crying racism as the Obama camp has done, quite explicitly and vocally, will only backfire. White people will not be intimidated into voting for your candidate. The race baiting Obama is doing may get him SC, but it won't get him the nomination and it certainly won't win him a general election. But he's too inexperienced to realize this-- as his supprters are,a s well.

[cali]

31. Nope.. I've defended her repeatedly

I'm not like you. thankfully.

Oh, and Obama has never claimed that he was like MLK or JFK. Now it's true Ted Sorenson said Obama reminds him of JFK. But don't you think JFK's speechwriter and close friend has every right in the world to make that comparison.

As for your false accusations: Bullshit is nothing but shit.

[jasmine621]

32. Or the "racist" attacks on her.

Every time the Obama supporters bring up the racism allegation against the Clintons, they are race-baiting and using racial slurs. Doesn't anyone else see this?

[cali]

33. I have never called either of them a racist. Or even thought it.

I have noticed that too many Clinton supporters are playing a very ugly little game: the one you're playing. It reflects poorly on your candidate- and yourself.

[neutron]

36. links please. Where are the posts you are referring to?

Or is this more crap to prejudice the black population against Clinton?

[cali]

37. I wrote this days ago in response to comments in a thread about

Obama's church. I don't remember the name of the thead, but someone is now running another post with information about how his church is rooted in African culture. I'm sure you can find the post that prodded me to write the OP, and anyway there is absolutely nothing in my OP that a reasonable person could construe as trying to prejudice the black population against Clinton. This is DU, remember? It's not the real world and it doesn't have influence within the AA community. AA voters are deciding for themselves. If they're not deciding on Clinton that's her problem.

[Mutineer]

38. My church supports missionaires in Africa & the former soviet union

does that make us "aligned with Africa" or covert communists??????

My church is also white-only. And guess what? There are just as many all-black churches here as there are all-white churches. SO WHAT?

Just another desperate smear attempt by the Clinton Corporate machine.