The Clintons - 10 Reasons I won't be voting for Clinton, although she's likable enough

[FrenchieCat]

1. I remember that I had to explain to my 8 and 12 year old daughters what a Blow job was when this administration was in office. That wasn't something I chose to do, that was something I had to do. That was something that I imagine millions of families were forced to do as well.

2. Democratic Ideals does not equal CLINTON-BUSH-CLINTON-BUSH

3. Foreign policy shouldn't equal 800,000 Rwandans macheted to death

4. NAFTA equals Middle Class slaughter

5. DOMA-The bill was passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate<1> and a vote of 342-67 in the House of Representatives<2>, and was signed by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.

6. 1996 Telecommunications Act and the beginning of Cable takeover of our politics

7. Health Care Reform being set back another 15 years.

8. Loss of Congress in 1994 and only got it back in 2006.

9. Took credit of Great economics, but forgot to attribute any to the Dot.Com boom, which was not Clinton's doing.

10. Lack of oversight put on Corporate America during 8 years.

Telecommunications act gave us the out of control cable stations which gave us monicagate, which gave us impeachment, which gave us Dems seen as immoral, which gave us Gore who felt that he couldn't run on Clinton's records, which gave us Bush running to restore "integrity and trust" back to the white House. You know the rest.

I don't want to go through that again.

That said, Hillary is likable enough to be President, but I prefer someone else.

[RummyTheDummy]

1. No. 2 is my favorite

I'm glad I don't find myself on the "really, they haven't had enough time in office" side of the argument. I'm sorry but the idea of 24 years of rule by two families makes me uncomfortable.

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

2. Lets not forget that more Bush's are lurking in the shadows.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Edited to say....Oh, now I get it......

Yes....

George H. Bush, Bill Clinton, George Dumbass Bush, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Chelsea Clinton, George P. Bush, etc..., etc..., etc..

Obama is the Anti-Bush....and He's not a Clinton. Sounds good to me.

[musicblind]

15. "George H. Bush, Bill Clinton, George Dumbass Bush,"

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. We may not always agree on everything, but we CAN agree that George Bush junior is a DUMBASS

(sigh)

that was funny

[LittleClarkie]

84. My old sig pic needs to go here

[RummyTheDummy]

7. Yes, the "smart one"Jeb and the lovable" little brown one" George P

God help us.

[99th_Monkey]

11. Esp. troublesome are the frequent pics online of BushSr. and BillC chumming it up

gag me ... :puke:

[JVS]

36. I think it could be more easily rephrased "Dynasties are for football, not politics"

[Yael]

82. You are not alone

[sandnsea]

3. My list is much more specific

And I do think I need to put it together. It starts with characters like Norman Hsu and Ron Burkle and goes back from there.

Even though Hillary is likeable enough.

:rofl:

That was too cool.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Please do......

Hillary supporters seem way too busy on the attack.

Maybe they need to practice their defense a bit more.

:thumbsup:

[elixir]

58. You seem to be doing fine on the "attack".

[Cha]

60. It's called facts..but don't

let them get in your way.

[Cha]

59. We would love to see

that list, sandnsea! I didn't even pay much attention to politics until I moved to New York right before the millenium.

[aquart]

5. How wonderful for you.

What is, of course, alarming is the refrain "likable enough." That appalling remark that turned the tide for Obama, that turned victory into defeat, is now your proud banner.

I THINK THAT'S WONDERFUL!!!!! Please, print it on buttons, banners, bumper stickers. Cafe press will do it for you. Distribute them at all your rallies!

Remind everyone who Obama turned out to be.

[FrenchieCat]

6. You mean that Hillary can dog out MLK, but your only concern

is that Obama basically said that Hillary doesn't have to be Liked by everyone in order to be qualified to be President. The horrors!

[RummyTheDummy]

9. Hey, at least he/she didn't say Hillary should iron Obama's shirt

[rAVES]

12. yes, from 20 points behind to turn victory into a 2.5% Defeat.. er.. what?

[Mythsaje]

8. Nice list.

I have to disagree with some of it, but I appreciate the effort nonetheless.

I'll have to think about it.


In the meantime, I think I'll get back to my partisan "bickering."

[Cha]

61. The list looks good

to me from what I've learned about the clinton era over the last 5 years.

[rAVES]

10. Rec 5, off to the great page.

[bowens43]

14. I don't like Hillary but yours reasons are bullshit.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Please inform me....I'd like to know what is Bullshit?

I'm new at doing my homework on Hillary.

I took her at face value until her campaign decided that they were going to take the low road.

That has made me curious.

She's into war votes, Fearmongering, crying and discounting MLK, and lobbyists up the yang yang if it suits her purposes. But my list has to do with why I don't want ANOTHER Clinton administration.

The list could have been wayyyyy longer. I just came up with the very obvious.

[wyldwolf]

18. which one do you want to start with?

[Cha]

62. Why don't you try and come

up with a better rebuttal? Because your rebuttal smells like bullshit for real.

[wyldwolf]

17. has anyone noticed several items have been removed from the standared "I hate Clinton" list ...

...by "progressives*"?

Welfare reform, Social Security reform...

Must be because Obama supports them!

But I see some of the same bullshit is still there.

[robbedvoter]

19. You lost me with #! - "but what will we tell the children?" - Oh, the Mighty Clenis

strikes again...
Some of the others are serious, some are not, but this shouldn't even be there.

[Cooley Hurd]

20. #1 is Ken Starr's fault, if anything...

...since he was insistent in leaking & publishing every salacious detail.:thumbsdown:

[Mutineer]

21. But it does matter.

Because it's fodder that the GOP can and will use against her in the General Election. Which is why she's unelectable.

[Cooley Hurd]

28. Please... Even when the Starr report was front page news...

...President Clinton's poll #'s went UP.:eyes: What makes you think it matters now?

[robbedvoter]

50. Thet'll also say she's a commie pinko - and so is Obama. She's a woman, he's black

See? If you go by what they say, nobody is electable - but a republican. It's the shittiest argument "but they'll say"
Remeber: "they" haven't won a national election since 1988.

[FrenchieCat]

22. Did you have a kid that you actually deal with and discuss this issue with?

I had two.

Maybe that's why Hillary's tears worked well, and some folks don't understand why.

[lukasahero]

73. I must have missed something because I thought Bill got the blow job

How is it Hillary's fault that you had to explain that to your kids?

[robbedvoter]

88. There were no tears. There was no pity, but revenge against the media & others

ganging up on her. It was empowerment, bot weakness the vote for her in NH. media doesn't like the narrative where they were smacked, so they went with "the tears" - which that made up/exploited in the first place. Sorry to see you going with it - when I know you know better.
The Ken Starr little obsession with the Clenis really earned them disgust and the Clinton's sympathy. 70% approval ratings. The need for people to stand by them when attacked again. Believe or not, the reaction to Facialexpressionsgate was based on years of seething at the Clenisgate. It's Hillary's greatest strength.
If Obama wants to win, he has to run against the senator not the media cornered woman.
The "analysing those tears"talking point is a sure loser.More than that, it's a registration drive for Hillary.
He needs to deal with the candidate. the senator - not the woman. Then he is stronger.

[NashVegas]

92. In This Day and Age

If your 8 and 12 year old girls have never heard of a "blow job," they're leading an incredibly sheltered life.

[Cha]

63. Yeah, I'm sure she did.

bill gets a pass for screwing around.

[Dawgs]

23. You forgot the most important one.

The Clinton Presidency gave us at least four years of Goerge Bush. The vote in 2000 shouldn't have been that close.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Oh no....that's there

at the bottom.

But this list is not in order or complete.

[MethuenProgressive]

25. Dear Obama Fan FrenchieCat: Bill Clinton isn't running. Thought you'd like to know.

:grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya:
:grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya: :grouphug: :loveya:

[HamdenRice]

26. Then Hillary shouldn't claim all those years of experience

Give me a break. She is clearly saying that Bill's term in office is "her" experience and that we can expect a Bill Clinton-like administration.

[MethuenProgressive]

31. "I had to explain to my 8 and 12 year old daughters what a Blow job was" That's Hillary's fault?

As you said, give me a break.

[KennedyGuy]

39. Oh please..people can't have it both ways..

all we heard when she was in the White House was about the "unprecedented power" of the first lady and how she broke the mold as far as traditional first ladies go..she was bashed endlessly for being too involved.
Now..she is being attacked for not being involved at all..
Criticism is fine...but a wish for a little consistancy is appropriate.

[HamdenRice]

49. You've got it exactly backwards. It's Hillary supporters who can't have it both ways

The OP says she won't vote for Hillary because of policies of Bill's administration.

Someone responds, Bill isn't running.

I responded that if Hillary isn't including her time in Bill's administration, then she shouldn't claim those years as "experience."

Now you are saying that Hillary was deeply involved in Bill's administration.

That means the OP's criticism is valid. We can judge Hillary on the policies of Bill's administration.

You can't have it both ways: you can't tell us not to judge Hillary based on Bill's policies, while also saying that Hillary was deeply involved in making policy in Bill's administration.

So which is it?

[Cha]

64. Oh haven't you heard?

hillary wants it both ways and 8 more years of the same.

[JohnnyLib2]

27. Thanks for clarifying. I thought he must have announced or

something. :sarcasm:

[Evergreen Emerald]

29. ohmygod. Another "why I am justifying my sexism and misogyny" post.

[LostinVA]

30. Bingo -- the OP also called a celebrity HRC supporter a "whore"

[goldcanyonaz]

33. You noticed that too, huh? She's also stated that she will use RW talking points against Clinton.

[LeFleur1]

48. If You Look At Most Of the Talking Points....

...against Clinton they are all fostered by the right wing. Rove is alive and well and influencing those against Hillary.
Makes me sick that progressives would fall for this sh**.

Or maybe the board has been infiltrated...

[LostinVA]

53. Yup, it looks like a Rush/Hitchens Hit List, circa 1999

[moodforaday]

83. I thought the right wing loves NAFTA?

Item #1 is bull, yuo expect to have to explain plenty to your kids at some point. If they won't see it on TV, they'll bring it from the schoolyard. Who cares, and Hillary had little to do with it.

All the other points though... which one isn't true?

And when you see Bill and GHWB as the best of pals, doesn't it make you want to retch?

[LostinVA]

52. Which is a direct violation of DU rules

[Major Hogwash]

32. Well, that's bullshit, Frenchie's a woman, she has a right to call out Hillary's sexist husband.

And I had to explain to my daughter what a blow job was too!

I couldn't even watch the news for almost 2 years when she was in the house!

Did you know where Bill kept the cigars that Monica gave to him?
In Monica's humidor - her va-jay-jay!
The entire time that he was sitting there sucking on those stogies, he knew what he was doing and he was doing it in public so that he could brag about it later.
That's sick.
That's really sick.

A lot of people think that Bill is a sex addict, and a lot more of them aren't willing to let him back into the White House simply because his wife can cry on cue!

[goldcanyonaz]

34. Clinton's husband isn't running for President, typical RW smear campaign.

[JVS]

38. When Clinton re-appropriates her husbands administration as her experience, she is not...

beyond criticism for what was done under that administration

[LostinVA]

54. RW talking points and attacks in another post -- good times on the DU

:eyes:

[elixir]

65. Being a woman doesn't give you rights to call out another woman! how sexist can YOU be?!!!

Frenchie's had to explain to her two daughters what a blow job is, so she's a little upset. Wait til she has to explain what a philandering husband is(LBJ, JFK, GHWB). "Mommy, how do you spell whore?"

I understand her discomfort but stop bashing a candidate who had nothing to do with many of the items on the list and who had everything to do with an effective effort at passing universal healthcare.

Frenchie needs a nap.

[Cha]

66. bill's gettin' over the hill now

so maybe not quite the young steed that he was in his own white house.

[HughBeaumont]

35. Let's elaborate on #4, re: Middle Class Slaughter.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

[Cha]

68. Thanks Hugh..

for the links!!

[Bread and Circus]

37. Item #6 is one of the worst legacies of Clintonism.

I agree with items #2 to #10 on an objective level.

#1 is kind of dicey because it is a mult-faceted issue as his personal failings should never have been blown to such proportions.
#2 is an odious prospect but there's nothing inherent in the constitution that prevents such a thing.

A lot of your points really make regard to Clintonism in general and not Hillary Clinton specifically. However, I think it is reasonable judging from her rhetoric and record that she will likely follow a similar course.

[KennedyGuy]

40. Evert "she's likeable enough" persuades yet another voter to vote for her..

at least the rest of your points were well thought out, though open for debate.

[onenote]

41. how did the telecommunications act give us out of control cable stations.

I'm no fan of the 1996 Telecommunications Act, but its amazing how many nonsensical things are said about it. I'm not even sure what is meant by "out of control cable stations", but if you're referring to the proliferation of new networks, that had little to do with the 1996 Act, which rolled back cable rate regulation, starting in 1999, for the expanded basic tier, and otherwise had little to do with cable.

The prominence of broadcast-owned cable networks is completely unrelated to the 1996 Act. Its attributable more to the 1992 Cable Act, which gave broadcasters the right to demand compensation from cable operators for the right to retransmit the "free" local broadcast station over the cable system. THe broadcast industry developed a strategy of creating new cable networks which it then pushed down the throats of cable operators as the price for getting access to the local broadcast channels. That's how we ended up with channels like FX and Fox News, ESPN2 and SoapNet, and MSNBC, to name just a few.

Again, there is much that is awful about the 1996 Act and that should be rolled back, particularly with respect to broadcast multiple station ownership limits for radio and television. But pointing the finger at the 1996 Act as the source of problems that it didn't create simply distracts attention from the problems that it did cause.

[KittyWampus]

42. You forgot- 1. allowed Democratic infrastructure to crumple across country so party withered.

into a few strongholds in a few states.

2. did NOTHING to counter election theft methods as GOP were perfecting them.

3. did NOTHING to expose corruption of NeoCons (BCCI, Iran-Contra) allowing them to regroup and take over in 2000.

4. did NOTHING to stand up to the MIC and gave them MORE money than they even asked for. It didn't help thuogh, Clinton still was called weak on defense.

5. went allow whole heartedly with the privatization of our governement.

6. pardoned Marc Rich

[Hart2008]

47. Ken Starr never invesitgated the Iran-Contra connections in Arkansas.

There were many, but Starr didn't have jurisdiction to investigate Iran-Contra matters.

Contra money, arms, and even drugs were all moving in and out of the country through Arkansas.

Bill Clinton as governor sent the Arkansas National guard to Honduras to train, and then left all of its equipment there to be handed over to the Contras.

Hillary was raising money for the Contras.

Clinton stopped further investigations about the Iran-Contra affair as President, particularly obstruction of justice charges against Bush Sr. for pardoning people who could have implicated him as a co-conspirator.

[elixir]

71. Har, har, har, har. Arkansas, the epicenter of illegal drug and arms money.

[Hart2008]

74. Mena, Arkansas-where the Bushes and Clinton's interests converge.

Chapters in the Recent History of Arkansas
by Alexander Cockburn
The Nation, 1992-02-24


By the mid-1980s, Arkansas was a crucial link in the contra war against Nicaragua being masterminded from Washington. One scheme for maintaining a cover-up for Oliver North's network was, it appears, played out in the Governor's mansion occupied by Bill Clinton.

Among the occupants of that same mansion was Buddy Young, a man then, as now, in charge of Clinton's security. (BTW, now a regional director for FEMA.) According to court documents filed by Terry Reed, a former C.l.A. asset involved in North's contra supply effort, Young was a pivotal figure in a case designed to land Reed in prison not long after Reed had walked out of an arms-for-drugs operation in Guadalajara, Mexico, where he had been working with C.I.A. man Felix Rodriguez.

Arkansas's role in the contra war and in an arms-for-drugs supply network goes back to the early 1980s and the airport at Mena, Arkansas, discussed in this column two weeks ago. A federal investigation aided by the Arkansas State Police established that Barry Seal, a drug dealer working for the Medellin cartel as well as with the C.I.A. and the D.E.A., had his planes retrofitted at Mena for drug drops, trained pilots there and laundered his profits partly through financial institutions in Arkansas. Seal, at this time was in close contact with North, who acknowledged the relationship in his memoir. These were the years in which North was constructing his covert supply lines for the contras.

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/cockb1.html

[AntiFascist]

75. Great article! Don't forget, these same shadowy operations...

very much underlie most of the current corruption in Washington. See Sibel Edmonds. No wonder the Clintons are needed to establish continuity. Here's more detail on the CIA involvement:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00058.htm

:kick:

[Hart2008]

78. Roger Morris has street cred about this.

A former NSC member who was appointed by LBJ but resigned over Nixon's invasion of Cambodia.

He is no right winger.

A Call to Conscience
The Diplomat who quit over Nixon's Invasion of Cambodia asks Americans on the front lines of Foreign Service to resign from the "Worst Regime by far in the History of the Republic."

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0525-14.htm

[AntiFascist]

79. A very important article and message to the foreign services and intelligence community...

In Afghanistan, where we once held the promise of a new ideal, we have resumed our old alliance with warlords and drug dealers, waging punitive expeditions and propping up puppets in yet another seamy chapter of the "Great Game," presuming to conquer the unconquerable. In Iraq -- as every cable surely screams at you -- we are living a foreign policy nightmare, locked in a cycle of violence and seething, spreading hatred continued at incalculable cost, escaped only with hazardous humiliation abroad and bitter divisions at home. Debacle is complete.

[AntiFascist]

81. Notice that conservatives even trip all over themselves...

trying to dispute "Compromised" and even defending Bill Clinton:

http://www.aim.org/publications/aim_report/1994/07b.html

Since the Mena stuff emerged before Clinton's rise to candidacy for presidency, why would it have been suppressed? Well, DUH, it implicated the Reagan/Bush administration in Iran/Contra operations.

Why would Pat Robertson, in discussing the operations at Mena, leave out mention of Oliver North? Well, DUH, North is a hero to the religious right!

Why would the CIA deny publicly that Brenneke ever worked for the CIA? Well, DUH....and so on.

[Tektonik]

43. From reading the OP's list

I had not realized that Bill was running for a third term. :shrug:

[MadBadger]

44. Well as long as Hill claims first lady experience and campaigns to go back to the Clinton days

then it all counts.

[Wisconsin for Hill]

45. yet another Obamaniac...

with head firmly planted in the sand. What do you think your wet behind the ears and greener than a Christman tree boy Obummer will do in office? Talk about "hope" for four years and do nothing? Obama is a talker, Edwards is a pretender, and Hillary is a doer.

Oh... and by the way... Obummer lost. Get used to it, because it's going to be happening a lot!

[Nedsdag]

77. Come November,

Hillary will lose. Get used to it, because it will happen if she's the nominee.

[here_is_to_hope]

46. I have ten reasons too....

The first of which is your opinion means nothing to me.
The rest you may already know.

[TwilightZone]

51. I think you're confusing Hillary with Bill.

[RaleighNCDUer]

69. Hillary's whole strategy

is about confusing Hillary with Bill.

[TwilightZone]

80. Then why does she talk about her Senate record?

From what I understand, she served in the Senate, not Bill.

[biermeister]

55. don't forget

most favorite trade status to the Chinese. Walmart couldn't sell us all that lost cost shit without it.

by the way, that low cost shit helps to obscure the fact that we have low paying jobs and our money is worth a lot less

thanks Bill

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

56. Just heard from another Dem who won't vote for Hillary ever

In fact, she and her family will be voting for McCain if Hillary is nominated. They're so furious at Hillary for all the race-baiting and other crap lately, on top of the Iraq fiasco, that they'll be supporting the Republican nominee to send a message, hoping that the Democrats have some sense in 2012. Not something I wanted to hear, but it's a firm sentiment.

[wyldwolf]

67. I just heard from two who will gladly

[goldcanyonaz]

70. Touche! The shit gets pretty thick around here, an enema is in order.

[Cha]

57. Frenchy!~

That "loss of congress" thing was huge! I don't want to go through anything with the clintons again and I'm sure there'd a lot of new shit comin' down the pike that we couldn't even imagine except you can bet there won't be anything good for The People.

[codeindigo]

72. am i missing something?

was hillary the president then or in congress? i don't understand. :shrug:

[LynneSin]

76. I didn't realize Hillary was an elected official in DC in the 90s

She was a fucking first lady geez!

[jgraz]

85. She can either take credit for that "experience" or not

If she wants the credit, she has to share the blame. And healthcare is totally her fuckup.

[Thickasabrick]

86. I can't stand Hillary but reason #1 is just stupid.

[progressoid]

89. Yeah, I was going to post the same sentiment. n/t

[MzShellG]

87. Some may think this is a stretch....

But the way the Clintons have behaved for the last 7 years I wouldn't be surprised if Jeb is her running mate. Flame away....

[Infinite Hope]

90. I agree overall. Can you explain number 6 more thoroughly as I don't know much about it? n/t

[Va Lefty]

91. Reasons 2, 4, and 6 are enough for me