Obama's plan to grant driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Agree or disagree?

[antiimperialist]

I personally love Obama's idea, but I'd like to hear your say on this issue.

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Il, is standing by his support for granting driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants, even after Gov. Eliot Spitzer, D-NY, abandoned the proposal amidst rising political opposition.

"Obama said in the debate he supported it and he's standing by it," an aide to the Senator told the Huffington Post. "He supported a similar bill in the state senate as a law enforcement measure."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/drivers-license

[TwilightZone]

1. Didn't Clinton get loads of criticism for even suggesting that Spitzer had a right to consider this?

If the suggestion was worth a firestorm, I'm curious to see the reaction to someone openly supporting it.

For the record, I'm generally for it for a variety of reasons.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. She got criticized for being indecisive about it

[fightindonkey]

34. No, She Said It Was An Idea. She Would Consider It, But The Details Would Need To Be Worked On

[Hippo_Tron]

40. I'm with you on this one, but the media wanted a yes or no answer

And that's why she got criticized. IMO it's more complex than a yes or no.

[LittleBlue]

2. Disagree. It's time to stop supporting Mexican oligarchs so they aren't forced to come here!

That's the way it is. Mexico needs those dissenters to evolve.

[mac2]

3. They are "illegal" not just people from other

countries on a visit to America. Temporary International Drivers Licenses should be given to people visiting if they know how to drive and read the signs.

What part of "illegal" don't people understand?

Our previous Illinois governor sold licenses to illegal immigrants who couldn't read English signs, didn't know how to drive, etc. He went to jail since accidents and deaths were many around the country.

Guess Senator Obama (D-IL) doesn't remember about our IL governor's crimes regarding illegal sale of licenses?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

4. If it gets them to take driver's tests and obtain insurance then I favor it

They are going to live here anyway and many of them will try to drive. So far, we don't have a solution to the issue of their presence in America. We can't kick 20 million people out of America as a practical matter, even if we had the political will. So if they drive anyway and if having them obtain licenses makes the roadways safer and also provides for insurance in the event that they happen to hit another car, then I can only see this as a positive idea. It won't increase or decrease the number of people who are already here. The only effect it will have is to improve safety and financial responsibility. Hopefully, it will also drive down uninsured motorist premiums on everyone's insurance policy, as a few million more people will be paying into the insurance system and will no longer be uninsured, but that requires auto insurance company cooperation.

[amandabeech]

42. One does not get insurance in order to get a driver's license.

One must show proof of insurance to register a vehicle. One is not required to register a vehicle in order to get a driver's license.

Most people do both at the same time, so it's confusing.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

52. Drivers licenses and registrations usually go hand in hand

Most people own the vehicles they drive. In California, the application for vehicle registration calls for the listing of the owner's driver's license number in the upper right hand corner of the form 343. Anyone stopped by the police must show a valid driver's license, proof of registration and insurance. Insurance companies require the driver's license number for the principal policy holder, in order to research the driving history of the driver and assess the risk for purposes of calculating the premiums. If the driver has too many accidents or DUIs, those facts get reported to the insurance company according to the driver's license number. The insurance policy must cover that particular driver, whether in his/her name or in the name of a family member who is on the policy. Therefore, when someone has no driver's license, they usually are uninsured as well.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. The President grants driver's licenses?

Do they have a DMV in the oval office?

[mac2]

7. No we have a dictator who ignores everyone's laws

[Nailzberg]

26. Yeah, but the wait is shorter at the OEOB. Try that one.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. Yea, but the fire alarm keeps going off in that one because Cheney is burning documents

[inthebrain]

6. I agree with Obama as well as Kucinich

that there are no illegal human beings.

Face it.

Most of our ancestors hopped on a boat and just came here. Citizenship wasn't for sale in those days as it is now.

[mac2]

11. None of my relatives hopped a boat and came here

illegally. They went through Ellis Island like the rest of the legal immigrants who had to justify their ability to find work or have a sponsor, had their own money, were healthy, etc.

Blacks were forced to come here as cheap labor but the country was wide open then. Even they didn't arrive on illegal boats.

We can't use history today. We have settled our country from ocean to ocean in a short time period. Even President Jackson was surprised.

When the country had problems with too much immigration, disease (TB,etc.), crime, etc., we passed laws. Our prisons are full of illegal immigrants. Our country is more industrial and educated. There are good reasons for having the immigration laws today also.

Guess Senator Obama (IL-D)forgot about our previous IL governor going to jail for selling licenses. There were accidents around the country because they couldn't read the signs and didn't even know how to drive. Many people lost their lives on the countries highways.

[chascarrillo]

37. Comparing immigration with crime and disease - beautiful

Disgusting.

[Zynx]

8. I'm uber liberal on immigration and I don't support this.

[Colobo]

10. I disagree with him on that one.

[sandnsea]

12. Depends if they're identified separately

I can see good reasons to issue the license and good reasons not to. Maybe they could have citizen licenses, and everybody else licenses, so the illegals wouldn't be identified but we could still have a system where everyone is registered.

[depakid]

27. That's similar to Kulongoski's proposal

Gov. Ted Kulongoski is suggesting a two-tiered system for Oregon driver's licenses: one card for those who can prove they're citizens and another for those who can't.

The proposal, which drew swift condemnation from people who say Oregon is too lax on illegal immigrants, is part of the governor's plan to bring the state into compliance with new federal ID requirements.

"The issues that we're trying to deal with are identity theft and security," said Patty Wentz, Kulongoski's spokeswoman. But there are some who can't -- or don't want to -- hand over citizenship documents, Wentz said, citing people who have lost papers in natural disasters and some elderly residents.

"Those people should still be able to have a driver's license," she said.

The license for those who provide proof of "legal presence" would become an official identification card, for use at airports, banks and other places that require ID. The other license would be for driving privileges only and would be stamped "not for identification."

http://www.blueoregon.com/2007/10/kulongoski-prop.html

[sandnsea]

31. lol, I honestly hadn't paid attention

Ted's introduced some great legislation here. I wasn't entirely sure about him when I voted for him, but he's done a fantastic job. He's going to be tough to replace.

[musicblind]

35. I agree

good idea. that is how it should be done.

[rucky]

49. Said the same thing about Kitz.

[sandnsea]

51. Well, he's no Kitz

But he's gotten some tough legislation through, I have to give him that. He fought the land developers magnificently too, with a lot of help, but we won a recent land use vote with 70%. If we could just get our schools back to where they used to be, and some consistent scheme to fund health care, we'd be in great shape in this state.

[readmoreoften]

13. One of the few issues I agree with him on. I don't want to be killed by an unlicensed driver. /nt

[2rth2pwr]

28. Getting killed by a licensed driver is definitely the way to go. nt

[CyberPieHole]

44. Zeus forbid a drunk~driver be un~licensed as well...

and if the driver in question is an illegal alien you'll have achieved a trifecta!:evilgrin:

[jackson_dem]

14. I agree with him. It is a public safety issue and will cause illegals to get auto insurance

[amandabeech]

43. One does not need to get auto insurance when one gets a driver's license.

See my post #42. The insurance goes with the vehicle. If one does not register a vehicle, one does not get auto insurance. One does not need to register a vehicle to get a driver's license.

[Double T]

15. Another GREAT reason to vote for any other Democrat other than obama.

obama didn't learn anything from the spitzer fiasco.

[AshevilleGuy]

16. This alone would sink him in the general election.

And he can't take it back now or waffle on it. The Supreme Court is at stake - we can't take a chance on him!!!

[7 of 11]

17. I disagree but not totally

I say do it but only if the license states "Illegal or Unlawful or Undocumented alien" across it in big bold letters.

[JDPriestly]

18. I don't know how you could give licenses to people who aren't

supposed to be here. If you give the license, aren't you suggesting that they may stay? It's a crazy situation. If you don't give the license, the drivers cannot obtain insurance. And those who are injured in accidents with the uninsured drivers have huge problems. It's quite a quandry.

[Tektonik]

19. In the current immigration situation

I'd have to begrudgingly say yes. but if we could repeal NAFTA, restore Mexican jobs, and stymie the need for Mexican and other Latino groups to emigrate to the US for their own survival, I'd wholeheartedly say yes.

[Clintonista2]

20. I voted undecided.. I think it's a good idea in principle...

But I don't think it is workable in practice.

[mahina]

21. Do you want people driving without licenses?

Doesn't mean they are legal, it means they aren't such a hazard on the road. Come on people, this should not even be a question.

You weight the costs against the benefits. What are the potential costs of a large number of unlicensed, uninsured, and untrained drivers on the road? Can you honestly tell me there is less cost to keeping them on the road, than otherwise?

It's analagous to teaching 12 year olds sex education. Does it mean it's ok if they get pregnant? Noooo...

Unless you want a large percentage of unlicensed people without passing a drivers test, then let people get a damn drivers license. Hadn't considered making two types of licenses, that's not a bad idea. But come on. We are talking about people losing their lives, every day. Eeesh.

[flpoljunkie]

47. Nice rebuttal and photo, mahina. Thanks for sharing.

[mahina]

54. Hey hey! You bet!

It's amazing how programmable people are. Yow.

Aloha.

[depakid]

22. Racism, sexism and now xenophobia!

America's in for an "interesting" year.

Aside from the fact this is a matter for each state, Obama to his credit supports the rational approach to what's essentially a public safety issue- people are going to drive regardless, and so it makes sense to encourage them to be tested, to be ensured and to pay into the system.

Unfortunately, it's become yet another "hot button issue" where Americans have a tendency to cut their noses off to spite their faces.

[whistler162]

23. It works in Utah!

[sandnsea]

33. What does Utah do? n/t

[Didereaux]

24. Obama stupidity on display, STATES not Fed control drivers licenses...

and their are dozens of USSupCt rulings that have supported dirctly or indirectly that right of the States. Why do I say that is STUPID of Obama, because as a Constitutional scholar hey knows it, and the alternative to STUPIS is to call him a complete and utter lying sonofabitch,,,and I think that would be rude!

[chascarrillo]

38. Yes, he was making is opinion known on a STATE issue. Duh.

I see your stupidity is on display.

[rucky]

50. he acknowledged that

he was asked if he supports it. that's all.

but keep going. You're on a roll!

[PresidentObama]

25. Disagree. I think this is totally different than say, giving healthcare to them.

If they're here, even illegaly, I want them to at least be healthy so they don't make Americans sick and spread illness.

But licenses? We can't give them the same perks as people who come here legally.

[depakid]

29. Why is this a "perk?"

It's just a drivers' license and another means of ID. It's not a social security card or a passport.

[sandnsea]

32. It's purely to identify people

Licenses really aren't about driving. If they were, why is it so all-fired important for us to notify of address changes. It isn't like that info can't be traced through our social security number pretty quickly. They want people to have them to try to figure out who the hell is here because they've got absolutely no clue.

[musicblind]

36. The answer to this is YES, I do agree.

Yes, I agree completely with this idea. My father owns a company that sells insurance in three different cities. What happens all of the time is this: People will apply for non owner's insurance, get their car, and the drop the insurance. It has gotten so bad that my dad will not sell non owner's insurance anymore. A lot of this has to do with illegals.

I do not hate illegals, I recognize a problem, but do not hate them. I think, however, that a lot of people feel irrational about this issue because they ARE racists and xenophobic.

I was struck by a hispanic driver who could not speak english a few years back, she was in the fault, she had no insurance, she later left the country and went to mexico. It was all very upsetting for me, she had run a stop sign and it was determined to be her fault but there was nothing that could be done... she was gone.

I think that if license are made available to immigrants, it is not a reward... it is a safety measure. They will get insurance and they will KNOW HOW TO DRIVE. The idea is to have two separate liscense... one for identification and one that is not for identification. Therefore there is NO benefit to having a license other than being allowed to drive. They are going to drive anyway (such as the lady who hit my car) so why not, more or less, cover our OWN ASSES by getting these people licenses and insurance.

The only reason I can think that a person would be against this idea is mere spite, and that is sad.

As someone who is behind Hillary and Edwards. I wish that Hillary would have answered, point blank, "Yes I support this idea, and if you cared at all about the safety of the American public... YOU WOULD TOO!"

Congratulations to Obama for STANDING BY HIS BELIEFS and not backing down on that one. I'm proud of him!

[Yuugal]

39. No Way!

First make them legal. Then give them the same test everyone has to pass. :)

[killbotfactory]

41. It makes sense

We cannot and will not deport millions of people from every city, and they are not going to just stop driving.

[Az_lefty]

45. Wonderful! Maybe this will give Edwards a needed bump.

Go John.

[debatepro]

46. It wasn't HIS PLAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is misleading...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/15/obama-and-drivers-licenses/

But when pressed by CNN's Wolf Blitzer whether he supports a policy allowing drivers licenses for illegal immigrants, Obama said "I am not proposing that that's what we do."

Personally I don't have a problem with it... but that wasn't an option in your anti-obama push poll... the huffington post link doesn't tell the whole story. Nice try. Bring it up in another month though!

[PATRICK]

48. I agree he should stand by

his first legislative judgments and reasons. What are we, GOP poseurs? What I agree with on is that there should be national policy on all aspects of the "problem"(the exploitation of labor as part of an unbalanced trade relationship), which is made it so hot and difficult for Spitzer.

Obama is not always framing things for the sound bite whereas Hillary is not simply the policy wonk. This is sound of Obama. Let's revisit this unhatched chicken after November.

[Recursion]

53. The problem is how we use drivers' licenses in America

A drivers license is supposed to do one thing only: verify that Person A has authorization to operate a motor vehicle. For convenience, they have biometrics like a picture that authenticate that a given person is Person A.

The difference between authentication and authorization is crucial, and one of the earliest results from the study of computer systems. It's why more people making policy decisions should study that, IMO.

I don't see why authorization to operate a motor vehicle should depend on immigration status, personally.

ON EDIT: this is why, when you fill out your I-9 forms, you need both a biometric ID like a drivers license (for authentication that you are Person A) and an authorization to work document like a social security card.

[bunnies]

55. Other: I dont give a shit. We have more important things to think about. nt