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peoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:17 AM
Original message
Rep. Clyburn of SC - "remarks by the Clintons that he saw as distorting civil rights history "
WASHINGTON — Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the highest-ranking African-American in Congress, said he was rethinking his neutral stance in his state’s presidential primary out of disappointment at comments by Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton that he saw as diminishing the historic role of civil rights activists.

Mr. Clyburn, a veteran of the civil rights movement and a power in state Democratic politics, put himself on the sidelines more than a year ago to help secure an early primary for South Carolina, saying he wanted to encourage all candidates to take part. But he said recent remarks by the Clintons that he saw as distorting civil rights history could change his mind.

“We have to be very, very careful about how we speak about that era in American politics,” said Mr. Clyburn, who was shaped by his searing experiences as a youth in the segregated South and his own activism in those days. “It is one thing to run a campaign and be respectful of everyone’s motives and actions, and it is something else to denigrate those. That bothered me a great deal.”

In an interview with Fox News on Monday, Mrs. Clinton, who was locked in a running exchange with Senator Barack Obama, a rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, over the meaning of the legacies of President John F. Kennedy and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., tried to make a point about presidential leadership.

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964,” Mrs. Clinton said in trying to make the case that her experience should mean more to voters than the uplifting words of Mr. Obama. “It took a president to get it done.”

Quickly realizing that her comments could draw criticism, Mrs. Clinton returned to the subject at a later stop, recalling how Dr. King was beaten and jailed and how he worked with Johnson to pass the landmark law. Clinton advisers said her first remark had not captured what she meant to convey. And they said she would never detract from a movement that has driven her own public service.

“She has spent the majority of her life working for poor families, poor children, fighting for the principles that Martin Luther King stood for,” said Minyon Moore, a senior adviser. “The Clintons have a track record.”

Mr. Clyburn, reached for a telephone interview Wednesday during an overseas inspection of port facilities, also voiced frustration with Mr. Clinton, who has described Mr. Obama’s campaign narrative as a fairy tale. Mr. Clinton was not directly discussing civil rights, but Mr. Clyburn saw the remark as a slap at the image of a black candidate running on a theme of unity and optimism.

“To call that dream a fairy tale, which Bill Clinton seemed to be doing, could very well be insulting to some of us,” said Mr. Clyburn, who said he and others took significant risks more than 40 years ago to produce such opportunities for future black Americans.

The fight for the black vote in the state primary has been under way for months. One legacy Mrs. Clinton had hoped to inherit from Mr. Clinton was his strong support among black voters. Even after Mr. Obama’s entry into the race, Mrs. Clinton did not give up hope of winning a substantial share of the African-American vote. She worked hard to win endorsements from prominent black leaders like Representative John Lewis of Georgia, a highly respected civil rights activist, even as her opponent won celebrity backing from Oprah Winfrey.

After Mrs. Clinton lost to Mr. Obama in Iowa, even her top supporters judged the South Carolina Democratic primary, set for Jan. 26, to be out of reach. Representatives of both campaigns were virtually ceding much of an African-American voting bloc that could represent half of the primary electorate to Mr. Obama by virtue of his strong victory in Iowa.

But Mrs. Clinton’s triumph in New Hampshire on Tuesday restored some sense of competitiveness in the Democratic race in a state that also has a serious Republican rivalry under way.

As a result, Mr. Clyburn’s stamp of approval could carry significant last-minute weight given his standing among African-Americans and his deep political connections throughout the state, as well as the role he played in winning the right for South Carolina to have the showdown.

“His influence would be extraordinary if he should endorse somebody,” said Don Fowler, a longtime South Carolina Democratic activist and former national party chairman who is backing Mrs. Clinton.

Mr. Clyburn, who plays down the importance of personal endorsements, did not convince national party leaders to give South Carolina a coveted early primary slot in order to play kingmaker. He said he saw it as a way to bring millions of dollars to the state, showcase the tourism industry and rebuild a Democratic Party that has struggled in a state dominated by conservative Republicans.

“This is a real shot in the arm for us,” said Mr. Clyburn, who is known for eager pursuit of economic benefits for the state and its minority population.

He also helped promote three Democratic presidential debates in South Carolina, one at his alma mater, South Carolina State University, one at the Citadel and one still to come, in Myrtle Beach on Jan. 21. That event is sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus, and Mrs. Clinton could face questions there about her statement.

Last week, Mr. Clyburn spent a day in Charleston touring the Air Force base, a local charter school and a family support program to mark the first anniversary of his party’s taking the majority in Congress and his own rise to the No. 3 party post in the House. He reveled in his accomplishments, those of a boy who was 13 when the public schools were ordered desegregated and who was discouraged by a customer at his mother’s beauty shop from pursuing an interest in politics — an interest she saw as out of reach for a black youth.

Mr. Obama’s allies in South Carolina said he surged there after his triumph in Iowa, which was seen as providing reassurance to black voters still skeptical of his ability to win over white voters. Mrs. Clinton’s backers regained their hope after Tuesday’s victory, but state analysts say they believe Mr. Obama has a significant advantage among blacks.

“I don’t think Obama will be disappointed in South Carolina,” said Cleveland Sellers, director of the African-American studies program at the University of South Carolina.

Last week, Mr. Clyburn said his extended family was divided over the presidential choices, with a daughter in the Obama camp and a cousin aligned with John Edwards. He said he had found it difficult to stay out of the thick of things.

“It is very, very hard, no doubt about it,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/politics/11clyburn.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1200028621-oa/0MUnoOqcYwkhvltmFBA
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'll tell you one thing
Obama darn not talk about race ye hear! Hed gonna divide this country I tell ya! He gonna find emself up some canal, river, creek or something without no help. Obama's a douche!


lol
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. You may want to indicate the sarcasm. . .
:kick:
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Nah
lol should do it.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
55. Obama isn't hiding from race or making it a central issue
because if this election becomes an election about race Obama will lose. He is a candidate for all people. I don't see why a black candidate has to make his whole campaign about race just because he's black.

If Obama's supporters start launching fireworks the other debates won't be covered. Race quarrels will get all the attention. We'll all be divided. Obama is trying to bring us all together.

He talks about racism very well and there's nothing harmful about that. There is something harmful about saying white people won't allow him to talk about racism. That's an attack on whites.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. Mr. Clyburn, history is calling you: Endorse Barack Obama.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
56. So Reverend Clyborn came
to the same conclusion that many Obama supporters did regarding hillary and bill's attempt at denigrating MLK so she could elevate herself above Obama. HOw childish and close minded.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. Racism vs Sexism. The lines are drawn.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I have a very bad feeling about this election.
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Tess99 Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Turn on black radio tomorrow and you'll be really upset.
But they brought it on themselves.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. ...
I am finding it harder and harder to support Obama everyday.
You are not helping.
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Tess99 Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I guess you won't be listening to black radio tomorrow
And anyone who, like you, still isn't disgusted by the Clintons and their race baiting isn't going to vote for Obama under any circumstances.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Why should I listen to "black radio"?
:shrug: That is your choice to listen to it.
You can and I don't have to.
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Tess99 Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Black voices matter.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:41 AM by Tess99
Maybe not to you, but they do. We are the base of this party and we have been betrayed by a couple we embraced as our own. If you turned on black radio, and heard the voices of black men and women, you'd be ahamed of your girl, her husband, and yourself. Deep down, you know that. And that's why you won't listen, isn't it.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Stop with the guilt already.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:42 AM by AX10
Also, blacks are part of the base of the party. There are also social progressives/liberals and economic liberals (American liberals) who also make up the base.
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Tess99 Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Cover your ears and your eyes all you want.
Still won't change what they have done and are doing to Obama and the black community. You know it's wrong but don't care. That's just as bad.
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:42 AM
Original message
indeed!
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
40. I think that if you're going to throw around lines like race baiting
that you should back them up with a few facts...
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Tess99 Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. Please don't play dumb.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. I'm not playing at all..
if you're going to throw around charges like that..you should at minimum...be able to back them up.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. C'mon, be honest.
You are on Clinton's camp, and any move by Obama's camp to rebuke Clinton's comments will make you like him less and less. The feeling is mutual- everything Hillary does causes that effect in me as well.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. You can see that I am with Hillary.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:36 AM by AX10
Don't try to smear me as being dishonest.

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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. You say Obama's actions make you like him less and less
and it's to be expected because you are on Clinton's camp. He's a threat to your candidate's aspirations, so obviously everything he does will cause that on you- not because what he does is right or wrong, but because of your preferences.

Relax.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Obama himself is not someone that I care for.
All he talks about is unity. Unity with what? The neo-cons? The Hannity crowd? :wtf:
These people don't want unity, they want all of us dead!
I believe he is wrong.

Stop with this "relax" shit! I am taking this very seriously because it should be taken so.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. No, you should relax because nobody is your enemy here.
We are Democrats, we are on the same team. I'm glad you support your candidate passionate and I understand your dislike for Obama. I understand your take on the political landscape...

We disagree, but we understand each other. That's always good to know and should give us some peace of mind.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Then why do you want to see Hillary fail so badly?
As a matter of fact, there are too many who want to see Hillary fail.
I find it quite disturbing.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
50. I want Hillary to lose so that Obama can win. You want Obama to lose
so that Hillary can win. See?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
67. No more disturbing to you than two families running the entire
political show in this country for 20-odd years in a row is to me.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
57. As if we don't remember your anti-Obama BS record
Stop pretending you have an open mind.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
30. specifics on "black radio"?
Hi - are there specific programs you recommend? I sometimes catch Tavis Smiley and News and Notes on NPR, but I'm sure there are others.
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Tess99 Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. I don't know your local stations
but there are several popular shows including Warren Ballentine, Michael Baisden (current affairs and music), and Tom Joyner are the most popular. And then there are other shows that may be local or regional. But you can find Ballentine, Baisden, and Joyner pretty much everywhere.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #43
59. thanks, will keep an ear out for those
I have zero tolerance for ads so I mostly listen to NPR and one of the local college stations that doesn't run ads either! But maybe I can check find it locally or online.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. My standard response;
so much for unity.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Anybody who quotes Seamus Heaney in their sign line is A-Ok in my book.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:48 AM by Old Crusoe
Hi ya, good person.

:hi: :thumbsup:
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Hi OC!!
How ya be?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. Not bad at all. We finally got out to see INTO THE WILD, and it was a
humdinger.

If you haven't seen it yet, maybe give it a try.

And not least, it's a great break from the shitstorm on the blogs!
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #35
44. Yep, it's really brutal...
and some of it's just flat out absurd.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. I think we had 8 strong candidates and that more of them deserve to have
remained in the race longer, while the Pukes got nobody, and more of theirs are still standing.

Somethin' ain't right.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. Yep. I'm still really pissed off about it too....
and I think I will be for a long, long time. But I am looking at the whole picture too. There were many reasons that happened, and I'm not going to ignore any of them. They are all culpable.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. It argues for a national primary. The romance of Iowa and New Hampshire
are appealing in their way, but it means that not all Democratic primary voters are equal.

I'd like to see Howard Dean outline a preliminary blueprint for a national primary for our party so that Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, and Gravel fans have the same chance as Clinton, Obama, and Edwards fans. A vote in a "late" state shouldn't be inferior to one in an "early" state.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
82. Agree
Seamus Heaney is one of the best poets of the modern generation.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
41. I do also.
In fact, I just got off the phone after an hour long discussion with an old friend about the coming storm in the Democratic party.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Invented sexism, overt racism
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:26 AM by LittleBlue
You're comparing two attention-whore disruptors unaffiliated with Obama with Hillary trashing MLK and Bill calling a black Prez a dream? Get real.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. When did Bill call a black prez a dream, or a fairy tale?
Got a link?
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. You asked for it, here it is
"With his wife's campaign in free fall before last night's victory, former President Bill Clinton erupted at Sen. Barack Obama, lashing out at his campaign as "the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen.""

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01092008/news/nationalnews/baracks_fairy_tale_721493.htm
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
51. Well, you and Rep Clyburn would both be wrong, then...
That is ONE LINE out of a long narrative. They don't even quote Clinton in the correct sequence that he spoke. Not surprising, considering the NY Post.

He was speaking SPECIFICALLY about Obama's account of his support for the Iraq war. He NEVER said that a black POTUS is a fairy tale.

Here is the text, and the video.

At a event in New Hampshire, Bill Clinton rants on Barack Obama’s (supposed) free pass from the press. The former president somehow managed to turn a question from a student about Mark Penn’s (Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager) judgment– or lack thereof– into a complaint that Obama hasn’t been held to the same standard as Hillary Clinton on the war:

“Second, it is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, numerating the years, and never got asked one time, not once, ‘Well, how could you say, that when you said in 2004 you didn’t know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war and you took that speech you’re now running on off your website in 2004 and there’s no difference in your voting record and Hillary’s ever since?' Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I’ve ever seen…So you can talk about Mark Penn all you want."

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/08/bill-clinton-on-obama-big-fairy-tale/

If you're going to allow yourself to be convinced that a single line in a very pointed and specific conversation is a blatant racist attack on Obama's campaign....well, I don't know what to tell you. Good luck.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. I don't see that it's out of context at all. He mentions the media treating Obama favorably...
then calls "this whole thing" a fairy tale. One could say the same thing about "Hussein" popping up in every Clinton soundbite. Nobody even knows Hillary's middle name, yet Obama's came up time and again by Penn et al.

I simply don't believe the Clintons. The way these key words keep popping up is no coincidence.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. Got a link re: Hussein?
Know what? Don't bother.

Good luck.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #60
70. Yes....of course we all know how polished Slick Willie is with
wordplay. You know, the meaning of "is" is. I am so over the Clintons.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. My thoughts exactly and I am ashamed of myself
I saw those remarks and I was surprised by them. But I didn't see them as the deep wound that they cut in African Americans, particularly the older generation who had bled and died along with MLK.

White America got in a tizz about a white lady crying and whether a black man had said she wasn't likeable or not. boo hoo.

We should have been outraged over this MLK remark and it didn't even make the news. I am sincerely ashamed.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. Agreed. The media is shameless in their pursuit of the bottom. nt
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Tess99 Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
37. Yup
This idea that Hillary is some innocent victim got white folks in a frenzy and no one said a thing to call her on what she's done to Obama and the black community that has supported her and her husband for decades.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
65. Invented racism
Is falsely saying that somebody trashed MLK.
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knowledgeispwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm surprised the Clintons didn't see this coming
I've always thought they were pretty politically astute. Personally as a black American, the statements by Bill and Hillary have made me uncomfortable and disappointed. Those lines were condescending and racially charged (I didn't say racist).
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
69. As an Irish-Scot those comments
by hillary-bill disgusted me beyond words but from observing them over the last 5 years.. I've come to expect from them.



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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
83. I think they are making a calculated bet that blacks will not show up
at the polls and they can play to women and Hispanics. I make that statement after reading the comments on more than a few threads here about activities of the Clinton campaign since NH and the rather outrageous comments of the more strident of their supporters on this board. I find it disgustingly cynical and reprehensible to make statements like this about a constituency that has been really loyal to them. They are baiting blacks, women, and Hispanics using tactics worthy of the worst Republican campaign trickster.
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. This will hurt their chances in SC...
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:40 AM by BringBigDogBack
I made a comment about this right after it happened, and I was brushed off.

I guess we will see what happens.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. I'm glad it will.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
46. Ditto.....
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 01:04 AM by Tarheel_Dem
a couple of Clinton's more zealous supporters told me that she doesn't need blacks, she's got the Latino vote and the Jewish vote all sewn up apparently. I hope that's true, because if what I'm hearing on black radio is any indication, the Clintons' definitely stepped in it this time, and we may never see another Democrat in the White House in my lifetime. It's sad really......
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. You will see Obama in the White House, so don't worry.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. Well if it can't be Edwards, I certainly won't mind supporting Obama....n/t
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
28. Hillary Clinton was correct......
Martin Luther King was a dreamer and he himself said that he dreamed - remember? "I have a dream"? 1963?

Martin Luther King had great influence and a great following but he had no elected political base. There were very few black congresspeople. Enter JFK and LBJ.

JFK, followed by LBJ and the Civil and Voting Rights Acts fulfilled that dream. 1964-1965.

Am I the only one who was around back then, or who knows how to Google to get the facts with the correct sequence of events?

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. The facts are not in dispute
The importance attributed to each player is the dispute. That anything would have been done by LBJ if not for MLK, Jr. I don't think so. Do you?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. Civil Rights had been a project of LBJ's since the mid-fifties.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #39
64. More reason to credit King
There wasn't the public will until he came along.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #39
73. Yeah, and a project of Harry Truman in the late 1940s as he desegregated the US Military....
That's what Hillary was saying: activists did the activating but it took Presidents to negotiate the passing of the civil rights legislation.
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knowledgeispwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
38. You're missing the point...
There had to be a movement before the political figures could act. It was people like Dr. King that led the movement that led to a political change. It wasn't just "dreaming".

Sen. Clinton's remark seemed to diminish Dr. King's role as a way to take a swipe at Obama.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #38
62. I said there was a movement by MLK...Read my post.
And Sen. Clinton didn't diminish anything. Read her words.

Or keep twisting her words, and go ahead, make my night - make her cry.
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LeFleur1 Donating Member (973 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #62
76. Diminish
Facts absolutely cannot be considered when speaking of Hillary. If these 'supporters' of Obama can't use words like diminish and they can't shout racism, what is left?
Why we might have to actually examine Obama's plans...and what would happen then?

Nope, it has to be about racism. Damn the facts, full speed ahead.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #38
63. Yep--it took Old Whitey to make civil rights happen. King was merely an agitator.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 01:30 AM by wienerdoggie
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #63
79. There was a very small black caucus in Congress,. Martin Luther King and his groups were exactly...
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 10:43 AM by suston96
...agitators with no legislative clout. And it DID take white presidents and white congresspeople to pass those civil rights acts.

Just like years before there were virtually no women in Congress and in state legislatures and they had to agitate vigorously to get their amendment passed BY MEN that secured their right to vote. (Download or rent: Iron Jawed Angels).

One thing about history - you can forget it but it cannot be denied.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
33. I knew when I first heard the LBJ/MLK thing that this was going to come back to haunt her in a large
way. Glad I didn't have to wait too long.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
36. Imagine if Obama had said that Suffragettes merely wanted and wished
for the right of women to vote, but that it took a man--a President--to give them that right, so really, he's the one who deserves the credit. How would that go over?
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #36
53. Nah, he's just say women are "likable enough"...eom
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. That was a little joke, as I took it, so... you didn't get your "oh snap" moment right there.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #53
72. Obama loves women..it's
hillary that's likeable enough..poor little ol' hillary who's smeared and jeered Obama and then expects to be liked. Except I think hillary got it..it's the m$$$$$m and her surrogates that are having the whine and cheese party.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. You really think there's that much difference between the two?
Besides personality, I mean?

Good luck.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Thanks...I've had
it up to here and past with the clintons..time for some new perspectives.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #36
71. About as well as if she said it took a white man to finish the job
But she didn't say "white man."
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #36
78. Thank you, Wienerdoggie. Thank you. Thank you. n/t
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Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. Anyone alive during the 60s knows the importance of Martin Luther King
and the whole civil rights movement to the push for legislation -- Kennedy and Johnson knew they had a revolution on their hands if they didn't pass laws guaranteeing equality. Between the two of them I think Kennedy really got it, Johnson knew he no choice.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. Bingo!
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
77. The Clintons really f*cked up with that one.
I'm glad Clyburn is speaking out about it.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. No, illiterates who cannot read or are ignorant of history have morphed this to suit themselves...
Hillary Clinton said that the civil rights movement led by MLK was culminated by passage of the Civil and Voting Rights Acts by Congress, pressured by JFK and LBJ. And yes, most if not all of them were white. That is historical fact.

The Nineteenth Amendment securing women's voting rights was passed by MEN in Congress and by MEN in state legislatures after years of women's aggressive activism. (Download or rent: Iron Jawed Angels). Or just Google Nineteenth Amendment.

History is a bitch. Uh, I don't mean "bitch". It's just an expression.....
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Yeah, and that is why HRC immediately backtracked..
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