the Kerry-bashing must stop

[phillyliberal]

I am tired of reading all these negative posts on this message board. Its pathetic. I have only been a member since september, and I feel like objective debates on this site turn into personal attacks and various other bullshit. Please, for all of you who claim to be proud democrats, start acting like one.

I consider people on this board to be well educated, informed, and passionate about our cause. But many members lately have really begun to disappoint me.

John Kerry is one of the most influential, intelligent, and charismatic democrats of our time. He has devoted years of service for our cause. Not to mention is a decorated war veteran.

Quit the bullshit. Its pathetic... the negativity on this board REGARDING OUR OWN CANDIDATES is ridiculous. I only wish some of you would take your agression and energy out on the right side.. do something productive. quit being so negative, or leave!

It is one thing to debate, and criticize candidates. But the personal attacks and constant negativity is absurd.

[stillcool]

1. It's scary...

if these people are democrats we're in deep shit.

[LittleBlue]

46. I was thinking the same thing. Kerry is a good guy. Make Kerry AG

One of the few honest guys around, especially by political standards. I always admired him for what he did during Vietnam, and that he had nuanced approaches. He was bad as a politician (that is to say, he lost at being disengenuous and rude), but he is a thoughtful man.

[stillcool]

51. He is still my senator...

His voting record is impeccable. I guess for some that means nothing.

[LittleBlue]

52. Yeah I know. Didn't mean any disrespect.

I just think, considering his record, he would be a great AG.

But he is also a great Senator. :)

[sniffa]

2. good luck to you with this thread.

and welcome to DU. :hi:

this isn't going to go well, but i agree with you and gave this its first recommend. :thumbsup:

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. absolutely

but face it, if he endorsed Hillary, he'd be taking the same abuse, probably.

It's just immaturity.

[David Zephyr]

8. I agree.

:thumbsup:

[tishaLA]

4. It's sad, isn't it?

We blame conservatives for the debased political culture and then we see stuff like this on a liberal site.

[LoZoccolo]

5. It's almost like you and I want a Democratic Democratic Underground.

It would be free of all these people who think bashing the Democrats over the Internet (easy to do) means they are more liberal or unique or whatever.

[Flabbergasted]

How long have you been for Obama?

[LoZoccolo]

21. You mean how long since I decided I was going to vote for him?

Like a week and change. I was undecided for a long time but my primary is coming up so I figured I should firm up my decision.

[Flabbergasted]

23. Yeah....Thanks.

[sniffa]

28. it may even be free of members bashing Democrats like Kucinich.

[LoZoccolo]

49. Actually, Kucinich himself would not be allowed on Democratic Democratic Underground.

This is because he will not commit to supporting the Democratic nominee for president.

[Hippo_Tron]

71. He would be allowed but not be allowed to advocate for any other candidate than the Dem nominee

[K Gardner]

6. Of all the sickening things I've seen here, this is the worst so far. Thank you.

[jasmine621]

7. It's not "bashing" to say he should have remained neutral right now.

You are adopting the MSM-speak by ascribing "bashing" to every statement made that does not coincide with your views.

[Mass]

10. You may want to see some of these threads.

Some even repeat freeper terms. This has nothing to do with wanting him to be neutral. This is pure insult worse than Rush Limbaugh.

[tishaLA]

13. You're right. That's not bashing

But much of what is going on is. I could link to them, but it's against the rules.

[stillcool]

53. Why should he need to remain neutral?

Do you want to ban my senator from supporting the candidate of his choice? When would it be okay...with you...for him to voice his opinion?

[LoZoccolo]

9. Also, I'd like any of the bashers to provide evidence that they've done even 10%...

...of what Kerry has done for this country.

Player-haters, all of you.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

11. I don't care if Kerry endorsed Satan himself - I could never bring myself

to say some of things about him I've read on the boards today. John Kerry has been a great Democrat. At the very least, he deserves our respect, whether we agree with his endorsement or not. To show such ignoble and classless disrespect of John Kerry is to disrespect the Democratic Party itself.

[Zodiak]

24. I agree

It's just an endorsement. Politicians make them.

Is it really worth this breathlessness?

[Bluerthanblue]

12. K&R and

thank you for weighing in with your uplifting voice of reason.

~peace~

[phillyliberal]

15. exactly

I feel like the board has been infiltrated by Karl Rove admirers. Get a life.

And to whoever said that I would have felt differently if he had supported someone else- I wouldn't. Because frankly, I really havent made up my mind now that Biden is out.. In addition to that, I admire John Kerry more than ANY Democrat currently in ANY office.

[Mass]

14. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

[politicasista]

16. K&R n/t

:kick:

[Muttocracy]

17. Ignore function

I discovered the ignore setting (the red x symbol next to poster's name) - blocks their posts from view.

Improving my experience here already.

[Bluerthanblue]

19. problem with that is silence is a kind of tacit approval-

ignorance isn't bliss.

Not when people are murdering someone standing right next to you.

IMO at least.

peace~

[Muttocracy]

27. see your point

Real life is different from blogs to me. Blogs are refuges for angry cowards.

Mostly I guess I'm thinking not to feed the trolls and let the moderators do their jobs. When something outlandish is posted, it would be nice if everyone ignored it.

On the other hand, when others join in on a nasty comment, that is bad.

I'm relatively new - is it always this bad???

[Bluerthanblue]

38. and I see your point-

Feeding negativity does keep it going. Sometimes I don't make that call very well. :silly:

I've been around awhile, but take timeout when it gets overwhelming.- It's pretty nasty here lately.
DU has been a wonderful place over the years.

We seem to be in a really cruel negative rut -

I think the trickle down effect of 8yrs of arrogant, rude leadership and the pressures of the world are partly to blame.

I'd like to be a part of helping turn things around-

Welcome!

peace~
blu

[kelligesq]

20. I'm a dem who worked for Kerry-Edwards 04. I would cross the street if I saw Kerry on the same side

a lightweight flip flopping chicken sh_t - and I dont expect to be gettiing any emails from his asking for money cause after he refused to fight and challenge the Ohio fights, I unsubscribed.

His endorsement for Obama means one thing to me.

Obama is the establishment, and it'll be the same old same old f--king of the
American people.

[ElboRuum]

31. Thanks for the uplifting message...

...and thanks for proving the OP's point. :eyes:

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cameron27]

18. I absolutely agree,

but I went through the same thing with someone I admire who decided to endorse Clinton, and nothing could stop it. I think you just have to let the ugliness wear itself out. Maybe you'll have better luck.

K&R

[politicasista]

22. And the sexist garbage needs to stop too

Hil is my second choices, but she did not deserve the sexist anti-feminist vitriol here.

[fedupinBushcountry]

25. Amen

K&R

:kick:

[sendero]

26. Maybe if JK stopped doing stupid things..

... he'd get a little respect around here.

[Inuca]

43. He gets a lot of respect

he also unfortunately gets a lot of BS.

[Catherine Vincent]

29. You're so cute.

A 21 year old telling everyone to stop it. LOL!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[sniffa]

30. you're so condescending

:hi:

[twolabs]

33. OK

I agree....thanks....somebody needed to say that!

[depakid]

32. Bottom line is that Kerry lost what should have been a slam dunk

by running a Dukakis style campaign, even though he promised not to during the primary season.

Seems to me that's not something a candidate would welcome being associated with- unless of course, the candidate and supporters want to run like that again.....

[politicasista]

34. And people who complain about media bias are quick to buy into everything

they fabricate.

[depakid]

36. I watched and commented on this as it happened

It sickened me at the time- and, unlike some -the memories haven't faded or become nostalgic.

[politicasista]

39. Yep. Running despite lack of party support, a media

that has protected a incumbent president more than any other president in history. And an inept DNC chairman and you believe the spin.

I am sorry, but I wish people would walk a mile in the man's shoes and run for office despite huge odds before they talk trash.

I guess you would rather let the people that should have did more work to help in get elected off the hook and blame Kerry, which is an easy route for chronic bashers here.


The OP has a point.

[depakid]

40. "and you believe the spin."

No -I observe and critically think about what I see and hear.

A lost art in America it seems.

[politicasista]

44. We agree to disagree

:hi:

[LittleBlue]

48. He was a bad politician

because he was honest and didn't wear his emotions on his sleeve. He is not a confrontational man, and he has nuanced opinions. I think his past proves he is a nice guy.

[depakid]

55. Well, he wasn't honest about Dukakis

and he certainly didn't stand up to Bush when it counted.

IMO, the race turned on one particular moment:

Bush's challenge: "If you knew now what you knew then...."

Simple question- slam dunk really, but Kerry played right into their hands and equivocated- looking weak and indecisive in the process- just as he had for weeks before with his "high road" approach to the swift boat ads (not to mention muzzling the convention).

Didn't take a genius to foresee how all that would play-

[LittleBlue]

56. I don't disagree. I don't believe he is a very strong-willed person.

There was a definite difference between the "how do you ask a man to be the last one to die in Vietnam?" Kerry and the "I was for it before I was against it" Kerry. But he is thoughtful, kind, and eloquent when he takes off his politician's mask. I think his heart is in the right place.

[depakid]

59. "I think his heart is in the right place."

I don't question that at all. Never have,

My point was about ineffiectual strategy and tactics- and whether we want to more of the same.

[beachmom]

60. Kerry isn't a strong willed person??? OMG. That statement tells

me you know next to nothing about the man. If he was as weak as you suggest, do you think he would have charged right back to the Senate after his electoral loss? I mean, he doesn't need the dough. He could have just retired, and lived a nice life, maybe signed up for a commission or two. Instead, he kept up the fight and has been TRASHED by nearly every political faction in this country. Yet, he still gets up every day to fight the good fight. He does SUPERB work in the Senate. He is a very strong person with a big heart.

[LittleBlue]

63. He is committed, but he buckles under pressure

He had a hard time stating what his position on Iraq was, when he finally changed it to reflect reality mere weeks before the election. The man's a war hero. What he did in Vietnam very few of us have the courage to do. But for some reason he doesn't do well when challenged.

[karynnj]

74. That was deliberate media distortion

Kerry would give a speech or make a comment on Iraq. the media would say that's what Bush is doing or say he had no plan. In fact, he was consistent in the basic outline of his plan from 2003 onward. The first step was a major diplomatic summit, including the neighbors in the region. Clearly not Bush's plan. The ISG recommendation basically followed Kerry's recommendations - going back to 2004.

Here is a Knight/Ridder article of the time. http://media.www.pittnews.com/media/storage/paper879/news/2004/09/27/PittCision/Despite.Accusations.Kerrys.Position.On.Iraq.Has.Been.Consistent-1789042.shtml

Here is Joe Biden saying that Kerry has been consistent since 2003 (from last year):
http://www.kerryvision.net/2007/09/biden_gives_props_to_senator_k.html

Kerry NEVER buckled under pressure - HRC certainly did last week. Could you imagine Kerry crying and complaining that it was hard? Consider he took FAR more from the Republicans that HRC got from the Democrats. Kerry nearly won against a war time President, against a biased media. In 2006, Kerry fought the Republicans for the vets in the race. In 2008, I suspect he will fight the Republicans for the candidate - they will have better support than was given him.

[karynnj]

65. Do you have any idea of what he has done?

He stood against Nixon and paid a very steep price for it - he and his wife had bricks thrown threw their windows - one nearly hitting their baby in a cradle

He went against the mob as a prosecutor

He investigated BCCI for 5 years and took the information to the NYC DA when his committee was ended and the justice department wouldn't work on it. They funded Pakistan's bomb and were OBL's bank.

He was the single Senator willing to investigate the CIA taking a blind eye to gun and drug running by the Contras.

Leading Kerry/Feingold was pretty tough to. The HRCs et al spent the time vilifying him to the press.

The I was for it before I was against it" is a RW smear. The context was Kerry had just explained in detail voting for the Dem version of the $87 billion package and then against the Republican one - then he summarized it very inartfully - the charge he was rejecting was that he did not vote to fund the troops. He did misspeak - and so will every candidate speaking 16 hours a day for days.

[LittleBlue]

67. I'm aware. Look at my answer above

For some reason the real John Kerry was not present during '03

btw you should make that a topic. I'd K&R it

[karynnj]

73. There was a guy who looked a lot like him who called for Regime Change here

because Bush invaded before the inspectors finished and while there were diplomatic alternatives. Through the first half of 2003, Kerry and Dean were regularly quoted in articles as the "anti-war" critics. Mid year, Dean came to be seen as the main anti-war candidate. Kerry's speeches in 2003 and 2004 were excellent - but seen mostly on CSPAN. He was the same person.

He did have surgery in February 2003, which meant that he was slowed down at a critical time in 2003. (He missed the TBA where Dean gave his anti-war speech.)

[karynnj]

66. What did he ever say about Dukakis

He was Lt Gov when Dukakis was governor. I've only heard Dukakis say positive things about him - then and in 2004.

[politicasista]

58. and a statesman and public servant n/t

[stillcool]

54. hey...how about counting those votes?

or didn't you care about that?

[depakid]

61. Shouldn't have even been that close

given Bush's record.

And btw: we knew it would take a significant majority to overcome the fraud.

[stillcool]

62. Damn shame so many people

don't want their votes counted. Oh well...it's all about the game

[ronnykmarshall]

35. I hear that!

Kerry can endorse whoever he wants. I voted for him in 2004 and I wish I was could vote for him for re-election this year.

[Yuugal]

41. Sorry you got tired

For my part, I think my calling Kerry an "irrelevant milksop" was kind of subdued. :)

[Inuca]

42. THANK YOU for the sanity n/t

[wisteria]

45. You are correct. The Kerry bashing should stop.

This bashing is just because he endorsed one candidate over the other. Honestly, that is all it was- and endorsement- his opinion.

[Cha]

47. Let me guess?

hillaryites?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

50. Here's what's happening:

[wildflowergardener]

57. I agree

It certainly makes me less likely to support a candidate a Kerry-Basher is supporting.

You may not be interested in what he says, but I value Kerry's opinion on who he thinks should be the best candidate because I trust his opinion.

I believe he is a person who will tell us what he believes honestly.

Meg

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nashville_brook]

68. totally agree.

[politicasista]

70. Calling a good Democrat an "asshole" because he didn't endorse your candiate

I love it when people sit behind the anonymity of their keyboard and say things that they could never get away with in the real world.

[LittleClarkie]

69. Thank you.

Even so, it won't stop. It never does. Some people really don't know the difference between a criticism and a bash.

[BlueIris]

72. Welcome!

Good luck around here (I mean that sincerely.) It's tough to be either a Kerry supporter or a real Democrat in these times, especially on this board.