A plea to my fellow Deaniacs...

[Evil_Dewers]

I hurt badly when he was trounced in Iowa (stupid caucus process). Then he didn't win in New Hampshire. I was disappointed. Then he lost in every state all the way to Wisconsin, including my state of Missouri. Then he gracefully bowed out.

So I just peeled my blue Dean2004 bumper sticker off my silver Audi TT.

Oh, and I changed my signature line here.

No more:



It is time my fellow Deaniacs get over this loss, and remove their egotistical Dean signature lines as well. Face the facts: Howard dropped out after losing badly and blowing $40 mil and not winning even one primary.

I'm not sorry I sent him money or voted for him, because Howard re-energized the Democratic Party and tapped into the worry, frustration and anger at Bush for his many destructive follies. Dr. Dean will be rewarded by the upcoming Democratic administration, as well he should be.

I will join Mr. Dean in working for and voting for whomever the Democratic nominee is. You should do the same.

In other words, stop being so bitter. A lot of you were haughty pricks when Dean was the frontrunner.

This isn't the first time I was disappointed, and it won't be the last. I voted for Gore for prez, even though he wasn't my first choice--I voted for Bill Bradley in the primary. I voted for Mondale and Dukakis.

People who want what is best for this country will vote for whomever is the Dem nominee, because Jorge Dubya em Dee A Dubya Oh El Arbusto is the: worst...president...ever...

Join Dr. Dean in helping to defeat *.

Thank you.

[quinnox]

1. Great post

Deserves a donkey

[exotrip]

2. thank you

I will be forever grateful for Dean. If it had not been for him (and a lesser extent, Clark), I am afraid the primary would have been a Bush ass-kissing contest. Dean forced the other canidates to grow a pair and go after Bush. And we have been rewarded with Kerry called Bush's foreign policy stupid and inept, and Edwards calling Bush on his anti-worker labor policies. Although I did not care for Dean, we all owe him. Which is why after Kerry is elected, I hope he bcomes DNC chairman. He deserves it.

[liberalhistorian]

13. I agree, the race would have been a lot different

without Dean. I didn't particularly care for him as a candidate, either, but he really got the other candidates thinking and got them to get at least some backbone.

I think he himself is mainly at fault for his candidacy imploding, there were many things he did wrong or didn't do that he should have (not listening to his advisors, not having a coordination among his advisors, refusing to prep and be coached for debates, not handling finances correctly, etc., etc.). And I got tired of how the Dean supporters on here were often so insufferably smug, jumping on anyone who didn't worship every word from Dean's mouth but feeling perfectly free to jump on everyone else's candidate.

[wryter2000]

3. Well put

However, my Dean sign stays in my window until I'm ready to take it down. Certainly, until after our primary. It says "Dean for America," not "Dean for President."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

63. After the primary?

The only reason my sign isn't in the window is because it's at the smelters getting bronzed.

[Mass_Liberal]

4. agreed

I too and campaigned for Bradley. And I worked on the Reich for Governer campaign here in Massachusetts. I'm 14 and every election I have taken part in has been a dissapointment for me. But o well, I'll suck it up.



But I won't remove my dean quote from my sig. Because it was a brilliant quote from a brilliant speech. So, unless other people give up Ben Franklin quotes because he's dead, I won't give up Dean quotes because he lost.

[Eloriel]

85. I could live with a loss -- I can't live with him being taken down

BY HIS OWN PARTY.

Not that he and the campaign didn't make mistakes. But I seriously doubt -- tho we'll never know -- if the mistakes made were enough to bring him down.

But we DO know that:

* the media
* the DNC/DLC incl. Kerry and Gephardt campaigns, and to a lesser extent Edwards and Kucinich
* the GOP

were ALL using all the techniques available to them:

* negative campaign ads (incl. bald-faced lies and "unpatriotic" innuendo),

* dirty tricks (robocalling pretending to be Dean campaign in the middle of the night, pushpolling including anti-Semitic slurs against Judy Dean)

* backroom deals (Gephardt threw his supporters to Kerry, Kucinich to Edwards)

* the Vilsack and Shaheen political machines -- esp. useful in IA where there were such things as Kerry moles in the Dean camp at caucus time,

* and much, much more

It's not about losing -- it's about not having a chance to lose fairly. Dean didn't deserve that. No one does.

And I will probably be bitter for a very long time if not forever. No way I can vote for anyone who participated in that. No way I want someone like that leading this country from the Democratic Party. That's not leadership, that's cowardice -- and greed and arrogance and more.

No, I won't be getting over it. Dean probably will -- I think he's a better person than I -- but I won't.

IN THE MEANTIME, he's still on all the ballots, and he's asked his supporters to vote for him so he can acquire more delegates with which to continue to influence this campaign right on through the convention. I don't understand why people who SAY they supported him are so eager to vote for someone else under these conditions.

[Voltaire]

96. Eloriel I am with you

Had we just lost, that would be one thing. We were waylaid, mugged and then crucified and I will never forgive the party or the media for that. And I am goddamned sick of people telling us to shut up about it. I am the same kind of furious that I was on December 12, 2000. I'll give them their goddamned vote. Bush sucks that bad, I have to do it. But I will be on President Kerry's ass and I hope that all progressives are with me on that score.

[Upfront]

149. Me To!

I will never get over it, and I don't want to.

[PurityOfEssence]

105. But they weren't really IN his party

He was the Democratic wing of the party, remember? The rest of them weren't fit for the name.

Yes, the media was a major factor, but he also did himself in.

Please don't recount ethical lapses, because Dean lied deliberately and recklessly, and ducked responding when called to account. The Senators DID NOT VOTE FOR THE BUSH TAX CUTS. He knew this, and he kept saying it. He wasn't the only one to talk about race in front of white audiences, and when confronted, said that he couldn't be held responsible for knowing what everyone else had said. When the flag flap came up, he said that he'd said it before, and when asked, Edwards said that he hadn't heard of that statement or he would have commented on it. Dean spat back that he should be aware of everything he'd said. Recap: I can flatly state that I know what they say, yet don't have to really know, and they have to hang on my every word.

When the status of his campaign changed, he did not. He should have given up the harsh attacks on opponents; it's acceptable when you're the underdog, but it's bullying when you're the front-runner.

John Kerry is not a Republican. When he said that, he went from reckless and charmingly extemporaneous to unstable and resoundingly unethical.

I saw an interview of a kid who had rebounded and was working for another campaign; his line was: "the movement was better than the candidate." Well said.

Yeah, he got a raw deal, but he dealt VERY RAW HIMSELF, and some of that's karmic. You don't walk into the room calling everyone else an asshole cowardly turncoat and not expect to get hammered.

Times change, and candidates have to be able to stay true to their message while moderating tactics. If all he had said had been true, it would have been a different matter, but he was most foul most often. So don't blame all the evils of the media and machine politicians, when all's said and done, he did himself in.

[dkf]

118. Eloriel I am with you 1000%.

I am no longer willing to accept this kind of behavior from my party but I am not willing to leave it either. I will do whatever I can to change the Democratic party and kick out self serving say anything promise the world liars.

I am joining Howard Dean in this fight to take my party and then my country back!

[PassingFair]

131. Me, too kids!

Meet-up is this coming Wednesday. Gonna have to change things from the bottom up!

[CWebster]

126. Don't forget Kerry's investments in early primary states

"Before Kerry closed the account some time before the end of 2002, the Citizen Soldier Fund raised approximately $1.35 million in soft money, thanks mainly to a series of big checks written by some of his long-time patrons. The largest donor to the Fund was Miami lawyer Milton Ferrell, who gave $59,000. Other big givers included the CEO of Boston Capital, John P. Manning, who contributed $55,000, International Data Group chairman Patrick J. McGovern ($50,000) and the American International Group, Inc. ($30,000). The committee spent nearly $1.3 million, which was virtually everything that it raised. Though its stated aim was to help the Democrats across the country, two-thirds of the soft money contributed to the Citizen Soldier Fund was channeled to its federal account and to candidates in a handful of states, among them Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. Records show that the non-federal committee distributed close to $147,000 in Iowa, more than $120,000 in New Hampshire and $58,000 in South Carolina. It spent $89,000 in Florida, the state that decided the last presidential election. In addition, Kerry's committee made big contributions to a pair of Senate colleagues who were facing tough re-election campaigns: $181,000 went to Senator Tim Johnson of South Dakota, who won his race, and more than $81,000 Senator Max Cleland of Georgia, who lost.

The purpose of Kerry's playing "Good Samaritan" was purely political. It's no coincidence that he doled out a quarter of the money raised through the soft money account in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, the early primary and caucus states that can make or break a presidential campaign. Understandably, he needed allies there, and the senator —like some of his presidential opponents —was using the PAC money to help build support for the campaign. Nonetheless, Kerry's distribution of campaign cash across the country is seemingly at odds with his oft-stated position on campaign finance reform, which early on graced his Web site: "Elections must be more than auctions, and money must no longer drown out the role of citizens in our democracy."

http://www.bop2004.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=189

[liberalmike27]

134. This

Is absolutely the truest post here. I don't resent the original post calling for Dean people to move on, but the thing that bothered me, as you said, was the improper characterization of the poster about what happened.

You can just see that they buy into all of the bias that the media had thrown out there, and is repeating it verbatum.

Dean hasn't withdrawn, he's just not actively campaigning. He didn't "blow" the money, it was destroyed, in effect the many small-contributors were victims of their theft of the campaign that they had invested so much into.

The author should think about what really happened, not the way they've characterized it. I've heard every reason but global warming expressed as why the Dean campaign failed, none of them with an ounce of truth. The Dean campaign, and all of its followers were shown that they don't have the power, but the media does, and it works through those who allow them to drop seeds into their minds that sprout into wrong-headed ideas. I'll never forget, and I immediately entered into the Nader campaign. Electability comes from both sides, it would seem many democrats voted the corporate middle side, and disenfranchised, and dismissed the threat from the left. So be it.

[INTELBYTES]

138. Good post and I concur!!

Although I was a Clark supporter, I would support Dean any day over Kerry especially after the railroading he got from the ones you mentioned. ABB first, but ABK second!

[John_H]

154. He was taken down by voters in every region of America.

Yeah that's right, Eloriel. All those other dems in every region of the country who voted for someone else, unlike Uber-enlightened Eloriel, plod Zomby-like through their lives awaiting instructions from the eeeeeeevil DLC. LOL!

If anyone is inclined to believe that, I heartily recommend a quick search of Eloriel's posts.

[Baclava]

5. Oh yeah, this will go over just fine...

Waiting for...

1)"It's my vote and I'll do damn well as I please!"
2)"It's all _____'s fault!
3)"I show you a haughty prick!"
4)"Eat my shorts!"

[liberalhistorian]

16. LOL!

I'm waiting for that, too. I think DU's become a lot more bearable since the Dean people have toned down a little.

[dsc]

106. Yeah we all took lessons from gracious posts like the one I am responding

to.

[JVS]

6. Not until the primaries are over

[madfloridian]

7. No true Dean supporter would say this:

Quote:..."It is time my fellow Deaniacs get over this loss, and remove their egotistical Dean signature lines as well. Face the facts: Howard dropped out after losing badly and blowing $40 mil and not winning even one primary...."

Oh, I hate to tell you, but there was so much more to it than that.

[molly]

9. Maybe you could fill us in on the details?

of "so much more to it than that"?

[WilliamPitt]

17. I think if one does not tow the victimhood line

one does not get to be a Dean supporter anymore.

[janx]

22. Well I'm certainly not a victim. But my support for the movement

Dean ignited isn't going to fade.

There's too much to be done. ;-)

[madfloridian]

23. Oh, come on, Will, the victim thing is old now.

And so is "half-assed martyr." Remember the night you called me that? I do. Oh, yes, I remember.

[WilliamPitt]

24. Apparently not

As long as you keep posting the way you doo, the victimhood pathology is alive and well.

[madfloridian]

28. Ah, just read my post below this one.

And don't forget "half-assed" martyr, Will, I haven't.

[WilliamPitt]

41. I never forget when I say accurate things

[madfloridian]

43. How are they different?

How is a half-assed martyr different from other kinds of martyrs.

BTW, my hubby is cracking up over that description of me.

[WilliamPitt]

46. A regular martyr has a whole ass

A half-assed martyr only has half an ass, after losing the other half in the primaries and being unable to cope with the will of the voters.

[madfloridian]

52. Ha Ha! He just asked who this guy is.

He is sending this to our children, this thread. He is laughing over this description of me

[WilliamPitt]

55. Tell everyone I said hi

[janx]

65. So am I--and I only know you from online correspondence!

B-)

So funny! B-)

[madfloridian]

68. Chuckle. One of daughters will get a wee bit upset, but will laugh.

I will warn her to stay away from here for now.

LOL

[janx]

71. God I hope so--

if I remember correctly...! B-)

[WI_DEM]

135. well don't let her get too upset

just tell her you were called a "half-assed martyr" by a big-assed egomaniac.

[regnaD kciN]

113. Same here...

I never forget when you say accurate things, Will. I'm still waiting for the first one.

:evilgrin:

ON PRE-EDIT: Like some of your posts, this is meant as a joke.

[Nederland]

39. Remember

Will, I remember a post of yours back before voting had even started (maybe it was early January, or even December?) where you said that many people at DU, especially those new to politics, were not going to be able to handle what was coming down the pike. I agreed with you then, but never thought you would be as bad as it turned out.

Well, next time they will be better prepared...

[WilliamPitt]

40. I saw it coming a mile away

and I'll be glad when it moves itself another mile away.

[Lisa0825]

47. Gee, so are you saying that those of us new to politics are unwelcome?

Does my money not count? Would you prefer I NOT volunteer time to support the nominee? If you do appreciate the money and time of those of us new to politics, then why don't you try to act a little bit gracious, since right now, it sounds like you'd rather we dropped out of sight, and took out money and time with us.

[WilliamPitt]

54. That's exactly what I am saying

or not.

People get mad at me for describing the victimhood pathology around here, and then along comes someone like you, who proves my point in Technicolor.

What I said in the referenced thread was simple: A lot of DUers were going to get emotionally savaged by the looming process. Prediction: 100% correct. I am anxious for that emotional discord to get itself on down the road, so we can all settle in to the hard work ahead.

[madfloridian]

56. People don't pay that much attention to your words, Will.

You get more flies with honey, Will.
I have always felt that unless a cause was worth getting emotionally involved with, it was not a worthy cause.

Don't you worry your head about us poor Deanfolk, Will. We are very resilient.

[Maddy McCall]

174. Then you perpetuate the stereotype of women being...

the "emotional" (not rational) half of the world's population.

That's sad for you.

[madfloridian]

179. No, actually when Will calls people names a lot......

People tend not to notice the good things he says. I am very proud of being a woman.

[madfloridian]

180. Don't be sad for me.

Please.

[Lisa0825]

57. Someone like ME?

Show me a victim post (edited to add "of mine"). I am new to politics, and I am directly responding to "and I'll be glad when it moves itself another mile away," itself apparently referring to those of us who are new. Now, WHY would any Democrats not want new people to be involved in the process? Isn't getting new voters, new money, and new volunteers a good thing?

What happened to all the unity speeches? Why would you seemingly intentionally discount a group of energetic volunterrs?

[WilliamPitt]

61. Let's talk pronouns

"It" would refer to a thing...like, say, an emotion.

"I, we, you, he, she, they" would refer to a person.

As I used "it," the pronoun clearly indicates a thing and not a person.

In other words, not "you."

[Lisa0825]

69. thanks for the clarification, though your snide tone in this thread

makes it hard to be appreciative.

This is the kind of attitude that makes people NOT want to participate in the process. If you want new voters and all that goes along with it, you might wanna practice feigning appreciation.

[littlejoe]

87. I love it when you talk grammer! But seriously,

I couldn't agree with you more. Some people don't really have a right to their uninformed opinions, their petty, childish and selfish political tantrums and, to my way of thinking, they are unwelcome by me and other democrats. (I know...run-on sentence!)

This is the real world. This isn't an idealistic, ivy covered sanctuary. It's time to grow up.

[Castilleja]

116. I wonder, Will, is it really difficult for you to buy hats lately?

Just wondering....

[madfloridian]

62. Yes, Lisa, he would discount us in a heartbeat.

Trust me, the half-assed martyr. We have done been discounted.
Hang in there.
:-)

[Expat Sue]

94. for the same reason as the republicans

For the same reason as the republicans--they are afraid they might get the democratic wing of the democratic party. As long as there are no new constituents the status quo will remain, and that is exactly what they want. Heaven forbid we get any new voters or people involved in politics again. We could get people that actually believe money should be spent on education and social programs rather than on corporate welfare.

[mdmc]

207. Welcome to DU, Expat Sue

Everythings gonna be okay, America!

[diamondsoul]

74. *thunk-sound of Will's point whacking DS upside the head* Well now!!

In spite of those on this thread taking offense, let me be the one to thank you.

It occurs to me I've spent far too much posting time here ranting about lousy coverage and not enough time promoting Kucinich or doing something about the lousy coverage lately. Victimhood. Damn, and I was hoping I was getting past that mentality. Thanks again for the wake-up call.:toast:

[Eloriel]

93. You're gonna have a very long wait in some cases

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edzontar]

142. I sense more than a little victimhood in your own tone, Will.

Cast the first stone, and all that....

[Adelante]

78. Nice av! nt

[madfloridian]

49. Don't talk behind our backs please.

I remember those warnings. I am handling it very well, actually. I think realizing it all has made me feel better in some ways. I know the enemy, and it is us.

[Nederland]

66. Not talking behind your backs

I posted my opinion for all to read.

If I had PM'd Will it would have been talking behind your back, but you wouldn't have known about then, would you?

[CWebster]

127. I guess Christ was the ultimate victim

Quit whining in your teacups and get over it.

[PassingFair]

132. I see no victims here...

We continue to work for change because the Democratic Party is compromised.

Callow, self-interested, party-line dems not interested in real reform want us to shut up and fall in line.

[madfloridian]

27. And another thing Mr. Pitt.......I feel something more from his campaign.

I feel empowered, more than I was before. I am not a victim, nor do I feel like one.

I think once I realized my vote meant nothing in 2000, nothing in the primaries, and probably will mean little come November......that it made me feel enlightened.

Sounds silly? Not really. If you have nothing to lose, then you start making changes.

BTW, we wore our Dean buttons out today to the stores and appointments. We were stunned by the number of people who said what a great guy, and boy the press really beat him down.

Four of the people we talked with will vote for him in the primary here as a protest against the media. People are not stupid, and I say thank God for that.

[edzontar]

121. The hostility oozing from the pen of Pitt and the rest

Just hardens my resolve to stand my ground and keep up the fight for real and profound change in the Democratic party.

Kowtowing for Kerry does strike me as the best way to achieve these results.

[Sinistrous]

50. Excuse me, Sir William

but I supported Gov. Dean when he was in the race. I respect him now and appreciate his contributions. I see neither him nor myself as a "victim".

However, you disappoint since you are capable of so much more than a drive-by insult.

[absyntheNsugar]

86. Disagree...I'm a PROUD DEAN DEMOCRAT for KERRY now

and I see no conflicts here. No victimhood.

Kerry wouldn't be half the bulldog he is now had it not been for Dean. Dean may not have gotten the nomination, but the spirit lives with all of the remaining candidates.

[Evil_Dewers]

128. Why do you have a picture of a very crappy brand of absinthe...

in your post? Fruko? That Czech swill might as well be Windex.

Go here:

http://www.feeverte.net/forum/

or here (archived):

http://www.sepulchritude.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=topics

to learn about the good stuff.


Here are some of my recommendations:


Absinthe N.S. Spain (OK, too much star anise)
Deva Spain (The Budweiser of absinthe, oily)
Emile (Un Emile) France
Emile 68(Un Emile) France
Emile Sapin (Un Emile) France
Emile la Bleue/Blanche France
François Guy France
Herbsaint New Orleans, USA (Pastis - legal, not really absinthe)
la Fee France (tastes cooked)
Oxygénée France (marketed as Pastis--but it isn't)
Pernod 68 Absinthe France
Pontarlier Anis France
Segarra Spain (simple, but I likey)
Swiss la Bleue Switzerland (legal now--used to be bootleg)

[Eloriel]

177. Dean Democrat -- what, for all of about 5 minutes?

I don't recall you EVER really being for Dean. Sheesh.

[Evil_Dewers]

192. Dean Democrat -- what, for all of about 5 minutes

Try five months. Now add a few more months.

I don't recall you ever being humble.

[Eloriel]

90. Abusers and their enablers

are always eager to throw the responsibility back on those who have been victimized.

Somehow, those who have been victimized aren't supposed to notice or, noticing, aren't supposed to mention it aloud. That's why the GOP like to accuse the left of "class warfare" -- we're not supposed to notice they keep getting richer or if we notice, not supposed to say anything.

That's why sexual harassers like to throw it back on their victims, saying (often), "Whatsa matter, honey, cantcha take a joke?"

And spouse abusers like to insist, "She made me do it."

All of it is designed to get the onus off those who have done wrong, preferrably onto the shoulders of those who have been wronged.

This has been so successful that the words "victim" and "victimhood" have now become something of an epithet. And the reason is the same -- to throw the blame on the victim, while releasing blame from the victimizers and those who cheer them on.

Your taunt doesn't wear very well, under the circumstances, and it supports abusers, wrongdoers and victimizers everywhere.

[seaglass]

97. There's a difference between being a victim and playing one.

The first is blameless and the second is really sad.

[Cheswick2.0]

99. I think if one isn't a vacuous sell out

one doesn't get to be a mole in the Kucinich campaign anymore.

[Ramsey]

101. Wow

That's a pretty nasty thing to say Will, and I am pretty shocked to see you say it.

Edit: typo

[Lisa0825]

107. yeah, I was surprised too.

when I started lurking here, and saw that Will posted, I thought that was really cool. I hadn't read his book, but had read several articles, and respected his work. I guess I'm naive enough to be surprised his posts don't always meet the standards af his professional work.

[dave29]

109. I love sweeping generalizations

in the evening

[Kira]

120. what does that mean?

It sounds extremely condescending.

[Larkspur]

125. Will, did the prevailing winds blow you back to Kerry's camp after

your flirtation with Dennis Kucinich?

My what a fairweather friend you are! Dean-ocrats are not like that.

[Walt Starr]

159. Maybe off topic, but still to a point of grammar

It is "toe the line" not "tow the line".

http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/toetheline.html

[liberalhistorian]

19. No, there wasn't.

Dean blew his own campaign, he is largely responsible. From not listening to his advisors, to refusing to prepare for or be coached for debates, to not coordinating his advisors, to not handling his finances correctly, to being too arrogant to listen to anyone else's advice and counsel, etc., he did it to himself.

[madfloridian]

29. No, you are very wrong.

He was far from perfect, but it was done to him. Even people in this rabidly conservative area are seeing that.

[Anwen]

30. I can't wait to see

what these people who claim that "Dean did it to himself" are going to say when the media destroys John Kerry. Are they going to say the same thing - that Kerry did it to himself? Doubt it.

[madfloridian]

32. No, Anwen, they will blame Dean.

:evilgrin:

[Anwen]

36. LOL!

Why would I not be surprised? :D

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

35. I am a "haughty little prick"?

I think I must inform my husband and our 5 grown children what a foolish prick I am.

[Evil_Dewers]

129. Females can act like pricks...

They end up being called the "C" word instead.

BTW, I by no means am calling you the "C" word.

I already had a post deleted by the mod for calling a Deaniac an idiot because he/she claimed he/she was going to come back in here and gloat after Kerry lost to Bush. Hmmm, and I thought only a freeper would do something like that.

BTW, I by no means am calling that person I previously called an idiot a "freeper." I am following the rules.

[madfloridian]

137. LOL ! You say you are NOT calling me the "C" word?

I am so very glad you are NOT calling me the "C" word.

OMG what a very strange place this has become. You are proud because you are NOT calling me the "C" word?

:D

[Evil_Dewers]

141. madfloridian

Hey, do whatever you want. Vote for Dean, keep your Dean siggy, keep hope alive for the GOP to use the CIA/NSA to assasinate Kerry and Edwards in plane crashes, vote for Nader, whatever.

It is obvious my plea has fallen on deaf ears. I just told the holdouts what I have done--and it works for me. It may not work for you. At this point, I don't care what you do, which was exactly the same sentiment three months ago of the Jerks for Dean who kept starting GD threads like "Which Dem will Dean ask to be his Veep?" or "Why won't Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, Leiberman Drop Out to give the Doc a Free Ride to the Nomination?"

It sucks being on top, because when you fall, you fall so much further and harder.

[madfloridian]

143. "jerks for dean?" "hope for assassinations?"

I do not have a clue what is making you so angry or why you would say those things about us. I am not embarrassed or apologetic that my candidate is not going to be the nominee. I am proud of him and proud of myself. We only wanted the truth to be spoken.

I think this is a little much for you to keep on like this. How do you know I won't be good in the fall and fall in line like a good Democrat? You don't know that at all.

I don't have to say. It is not a requirement in a Democracy. And last I heard this country was supposed to be about different voices.

You are so very angry. It is not good for you.

[Evil_Dewers]

147. I do not have a clue what is making you so angry...

Funny, that was the image many people had about Dean.

That he was "too angry" to be president.

Look, I left this site a few months ago because I was embarrassed by the way some of the Deaniacs were behaving. Not you specifically. I tended to lurk a lot and I don't actually remember you acting out, so please don't take any of this personally. This Deaniac has found humility. I wish the rest of you would, but hey, you are free to do what you want to do.

Howard Dean said he will fall in line and be a good Democrat. I will be doing the same. Judging from the hostile replies I've received from the "true believers" on this thread, some of you "won't become sheeple." Hey, fine by me. And unlike Alec Baldwin, I will actually be moving out of this country if Bush gets four more years.

In your first post to me in this thread, you accused me of not being a true Dean supporter, which is an assinine statement. I am being practical, yet I get called a sell-out or get taunted with banalities like "I'll come back in here in November and gloat and dance on Kerry's grave when he loses 49 states."

At the meetups, the biggest commonality is that we all wanted to defeat Bush. Now it seems the sore losermans have morphed the Dean message into some kind of fringe "take back the party for the people" goal, which is never what the Dean campaign was about. The Dean campaign was about winning the nomination and defeating George Dubya Em Dee Bush.

I think I'm done with this topic I started. Feel free to dump on me.

[madfloridian]

148. Not humility, pride.

QUOTE:..."Look, I left this site a few months ago because I was embarrassed by the way some of the Deaniacs were behaving. Not you specifically. I tended to lurk a lot and I don't actually remember you acting out, so please don't take any of this personally. This Deaniac has found humility. I wish the rest of you would, but hey, you are free to do what you want to do....."

Thanks for not pointing me out specifically. No, I don't remember insulting other candidates, just defending mine.

I am glad you found humility, but I just don't feel that way. I am very proud to have been a part of this Dean thing....whatever it may be called.

I would also like to say that on this thread we have examples of behavior that need to be critiqued as well, of supporters of other candidates. Would you join me in saying that good behavior should be expected from all.....or do you think it should just be the Dean folks?

[Evil_Dewers]

150. Would you join me in saying that good behavior should be expected from all

Yes. Right now Camp Kerry is cocky.

[liberalmike27]

136. This

This post cements the fact that this person never supported Dean at all. If they ever did attend a meet up, or do anything for Dean, it was strictly on the same "jump on the bandwagon" mentality that has so many Democrats voting Kerry based on a mythological electability.

We should never get over media-manipulation. Gore in 2000, totally trashed, the stealing of the election in Florida, totally uncovered in the corporate media, and many smaller issues remain.

Getting over it is the folly of the foolish, what we need to do is stay together, and address the lack of freedom in the media, the fact it's all owned by five large companies, and the fact that Kerry received campaign contributions and was involved in running the DLC commercials with Osama and Dean. When we have existing and continuing problems, we don't get over them, we set about rectifying them.

And I agree, when the media starts carving Kerry up like Jeffry Dahmer did his victims, they'll be whining. How quickly people forget the job they did on Gore in 2000.

[Evil_Dewers]

139. This #31post cements the fact that this person never supported Dean at all

Hey, thank you so much for telling me I never supported Dean. Gee, I guess I was just wasting my time at those meetups because I am stupid--since I never supported Dean. I wasted $250 on Dean, because I never supported Dean. I invested $250 in Dr. Dean and all I got was two blue Dean for America bumper stickers. But Trippi and his production company made out alright, so I guess it is all good.

Some of us must be crazy because we don't want to put on the white Nikes, drink the Kool Aid and wait for the Hale Bopp comet to take us and Doctor Dodi Dean on the spaceship to paradise to escape the Bush Fascism.

In a previous post, you wrote:

"Dean hasn't withdrawn, he's just not actively campaigning."
...
"I'll never forget, and I immediately entered into the Nader campaign."

---

If Howard Dean hasn't withdrawn, why have you hopped on the Nader bandwagon to Hades?

[indigo32]

194. Ya know

I'd never say you weren't a real Dean supporter, I think thats out of line...
but I am beyond sick of statements like "Some of us must be crazy because we don't want to put on the white Nikes, drink the Kool Aid and wait for the Hale Bopp comet to take us and Doctor Dodi Dean on the spaceship to paradise to escape the Bush Fascism." and are very hurt that a former Dean supporter would post them.

[Evil_Dewers]

197. indigo

Read all the crap that was flung at me before I posted that.

[indigo32]

200. OK

I read more than I had before (I purposefully avoided posting in this thread yesterday, and didn't read it at all today till this evening) and I gotta tell ya... ya come off the worse for it. There were two people that I can tell, who were rude to you.. many others simply stated their agreement, disagreement, and not in an unkind way. The fights with WP don't count for you... thats a whole nother ball of wax.

[Evil_Dewers]

160. Attention moderator...

Would you please, please send me an e-mail detailing exactly why you deleted my post a day after it was posted and after another 120+ more posts were made in this thread? I want to be a better poster/DU member, and I want to know exactly what I did that was wrong.

Thank you,


Your obedient servant.

[MAlibdem]

Hmmm

No true Dean supporter would say this:

Certain Dean supporters just LOVE to redefine people they disagree with. For example, John Kerry and Wesley Clark are actually Republicans.

Ad hominem and name calling is silly and counterproductive.

[madfloridian]

76. This Dean supporter never called them that.

I do not call anyone names. Never have.

[MAlibdem]

75. Hmmm

No true Dean supporter would say this:

Certain Dean supporters just LOVE to redefine people they disagree with. For example, John Kerry and Wesley Clark are actually Republicans.

Ad hominem and name calling is silly and counterproductive.

[littlejoe]

83. I think the original message summed up my feelings nicely.

Many moons ago I supported Howard.

[quaker bill]

204. Dean was not a victim, I am not a victim

Democracy and good governance was the victim.

I know, I know, Kerry got the most votes. However, lots of people voted for Bush too. Guess what, I don't like him either.

No victim problems here however, I vote for Democrats. I have plenty of experience supporting losing causes.

I was sort of hoping for a change this year..

[molly]

8. You are one Deaniac that gets my vote!

and your line said it all...

"A lot of you were haughty pricks when Dean was the frontrunner."

[The Magistrate]

10. Well Said, Mr. Dewers

An excellent commentary, Sir!

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[lastknowngood]

11. I'm not giving up my vote yet. I still will vote for Dean in

Maryland's primary, but after the tactics used in this election I cannot work for or contribute to the eventual loser nominee. I will vote against Bush* but that is all. The DNC/DLC have driven me from my party and I will become an independent after this selection. The Democrats will be relegated to third party status after this disaster so perhaps a real opposition party will emerge from it's ashes.

[littlejoe]

84. Bye bye!

[dkf]

119. Why don't we do one better than leave the party...

Instead we take it over.

Don't know how it is in Maryland, but the Dems in my state are REALLY OLD. We are the new energized blood that they need.

Gov. Dean's idea of a Dean Democrat sounds exactly right to me:

"We will support candidates and office-holders who tell the truth; stand up for what they believe; and oppose the radical agenda of the far right."

I guess that means we don't have to support Kerry if he wins the nomination...LOL!

Yup. Being a Dean Democrat sounds and feels right to me. I'm ready to take my country AND my party back!

[janx]

12. I appreciate the sentiment--

but I was not a haughty prick and I am not bitter.

I'm just not giving up on the Dean movement, that's all. It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen in American politics, and I'm no kid.

[progressiverealist]

14. INCOMING! n/t

[Lisa0825]

15. as long as the sig line doesn't bash another candidate...

I don't see the prob. I'm keeping my bumper sticker and my avatar. I'll add other bumper stickers to my car eventually (for the nominee and some ABB stuff), but I see no reason to take his off.

[WilliamPitt]

18. I am so appreciative of this post, I can't begin to tell you.

Thanks. Well said.

[NoPasaran]

20. Bitter? Moi?

Eat my shorts;-)

[EXE619K]

21. Obviously, you missed the entire message of the campaign.

DFA is not, and was not about "beating Bush".

It's about changing this nasty habit of the establishment Dems going along with Bush and the Center-Right "politics as usual" BS policies of the past.

It's seems that all those DFA E-mail sent to you went straight down the "Junk pile". What is it that you missed...that most of us have not?

If you are true to what you are saying, then, why did you not cross the line into the Kerry/Edwards camps when Dean said to the other "High statured, so-called Democratic leaders" of the DNC that they are "cockroaches"?

Was the Camapign about beating Bush only from the start?

You missed it buddy!

[sangha]

34. DFA is not, and was not about "beating Bush".

I noticed that right from the start, which is why I always suspected that Dean had little chance of winning.

[EXE619K]

38. You're right.

Because some people believe in more than just "winning".

Why bother with the notion of "Winning" only when, there are many broken pipes in the house that needs to be fixed?

Obviously, this is something that most people wish to forget.

Anyone, who thinks that this campaign was just about "Beating Bush" didn't comprehend what the campaign was about.

[sangha]

45. Candidates who don't believe in winning elections,

lose elections

Why bother with the notion of "Winning" only when, there are many broken pipes in the house that needs to be fixed?

Surprisingly, some people can be concerned with more than one thing at a time. We can consider winning AND what's going to happen after winning.

Anyone, who thinks that this campaign was just about "Beating Bush" didn't comprehend what the campaign was about.

As I said, from the beginning I realized Dean wasn't just about beating Bush*. It was also about losing.

[janx]

48. Actually, I have to disagree. It was very much about beating

Bush and still is. But if you remember Dean's oft-repeated line: "You can't beat Bush by trying to be like him," you'll realize that pragmatism has been and will be very much in play with Dean and the Change for America movement.

The Dem party must be changed because unless it is changed, Bush* and hundreds of others like him will be able to trample all over our country and our constitution.

We have to get that guy out of there, and we cannot allow this to happen again.

[sangha]

53. Actually, you both have a point

All campaigns, to some extent, are what their supporters make it out to be, and there are a lot of Dean supports who would say that it wasn't just about beating Bush*. At least, that's what they've been posting.

On your side is the fact that I really doubt Dean had no intentions of beating Bush*

[Evil_Dewers]

58. Was the Camapign about beating Bush only from the start?

I got so many DFA e-mails they should have been labeled as spam.

Dean wasn't too angry--but that was the sheeple's perception--BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY DEAN DID NOTHING TO DISPELL THE PERCEPTION. A fellow Deaniac told me Dean was drugged by the CIA the night of the Iowa primary. He told me the Doc was hallucinating when he screamed and had his rant. He was serious.

Yes, the "librul media" ganged up on Dean. And the DNC hated him. But for whatever reasons, the majority of Dems saw Dean as unelectable.

Look, in a perfect world the DEM nominee would have the qualities of Clark and Kerry (war record/foreign policy/defense), voting record of Kucinich (true liberal), the Union-Yes anti-NAFTA platform of Gephardt, the humor of Sharpton, the firey inspiration of Dean (the first man to stand up to Bush), and the charisma, good looks and positive message of Edwards--BUT THIS AIN'T A PERFECT WORLD!!!**

**Note I didn't mention Holy Joe.

Look who is in the WHITE HOUSE!

Now, stop your egotistical, self-destructive, I'd rather lose 49 states to Bush and be right attitude. I'm ashamed of some of the Deaniacs here--you actually make the Naderites look good, and that's almost fucking impossible to do.

I didn't leave this site for months because of all the anti-Dean attacks. I left this site because I was ashamed of the behavior of my fellow Deaniacs when we were riding high.

[Anwen]

25. Um...just wondering

How is it egotistical to have a Dean signature line??? Sure, he's not going to be president -- but how does that transfer into people being "egotistical" for not instantly dismissing all that Dean has done for the Democrats?

[Anwen]

72. Still wondering................

[madfloridian]

77. Good question.

:hi:

[Anwen]

81. Thanks, madfloridian

:hi:

Hmmm, still waiting for an answer

[mitchum]

26. Thank you

Posters like you are the reason that I don't use a broad brush.

[RetroLounge]

33. Poop

"Get Over it."

See: Republican; Rush Limbaugh; Hannity; 2000 election. Using their talking point does not make one wish to say "Oh, okay.." Maybe suggestions instead of orders might help. Maybe we are all pretty damn smart already and don't need to be told what to do.

Personally, I don't believe you ever supported Dean, but that's just my perception, could be wrong. It's happened.

As far as whom I vote for? Last I checked, the voting booth was private, so I can tell you anything I want to assuage your ego and feel good about being in the in-crowd on DU, and I can say I support John Flip-Flop Kerry, or not. If it makes you feel better...

But when I vote, I guess you'll never know. Maybe Kerry, Maybe write-in Dean, Maybe Nader, Maybe I'll stay home and watch the DLC Coronation get trounced and come back here and gloat, pointing out all these threads. or not.

Point is: You'll never know.

So please continue with the You-Must-Vote-For-My-Guy circle jerk.

We will watch with amusement. or not.

RL

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lojasmo]

92. well said

VERY productive. That statement sucks. I have been totally turned off by the DNC/DLC this year. I used to wonder at Nader's statements about the democratic party/republican party being the same. Now I understand. The democratic party did as much to Kill Dean's candidacy as the Repugs will do to Kill Kerry's chances in November. They will be equally as successful.

I'm not going to waste my time searching your posts...in fact, i'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stand reading the rest of the detrius you've spewed, But, I'm guessing you were never a strong Dean supporter.

Sometimes the village needs to be destroyed, not to save it, but just because it sucks, and needs to be destroyed.

Good luck in the next four years. "The people" have chosen a sure loser.

[madfloridian]

37. You have no clue that most of us will join you, do you?

You are just assuming. And the more people make fun of us and call us pricks, the less likely they realize that we are really true Americans who want the best for our country.

In effect you are calling us fools and traitors. And you do not have a clue who we are.

Dean supporters are just as patriotic as the rest, and most of us will prove it in November......maybe.

[Lisa0825]

42. well said, thank you.

I really don't get the hostility... for a while, this place was starting to feel pretty unified... then someone has to go bash us again, and then the rest jump in line to say "me too!" What's the deal? So I still prefer Dean and not whoever your guy is. Get over it. I'll vote against Bush and probably do a heck of a lot more than that as well, but don't begrudge me my right to prefer any candidate I please.

[madfloridian]

51. Right, and treating us with contempt is divisive.

Hang in there. Remember our vote is our voice. And we do not have to clarify it yet.

[seaglass]

79. When was it unified? The only unity that ever existed on DU

was the common goal of getting Bush out. Now we don't even have that. I'm hoping that before November we'll all remember that goal.

[Lisa0825]

98. that's what I meant... the unity of ABB... for a short while,

the anti-Dean supporter sentiments seemed to have subsided a bit, and people talked about some of the good things ... energizing people and bringing new people into the process, etc. But I guess maybe that was just an act on some people's parts, just to try to sway us to their candidate. Many of us either remain undecided or still plan to vote Dean in the primary, and now the antagonism seems to be getting stronger again. All this negativity by supporters, justified or not, reflects poorly on the candidate.

I know Kerry folks took a lot of shit when Kerry was doing poorly, but does that mean it's fine for Kerry supporters to keep this stupid juvenile stuff going? The reason I mention Kerry is that I see a lot more of this coming from Kerry supporters than from Edwards'.

[mydawgmax]

89. The "prick"comment is about when Dean was on top.

Maybe not you, but as a non-dean supporter, this board was over the top for months before any votes had been cast with smug arrogant posts about when candidates should drop out, how citicizing Dean was doing Rove's work etc.... I don't think it justifies similar behavior from Kerry supporters, but it did create a lot of ill will. It is only human for some to kick it back. Maybe not smart politics.

[edzontar]

122. They only bring discredit to themselves and defeat to their cause

With their petulant demaind for subservience.

I guess they understand--like we do-- that there is likely to be no major place of them in a truly progressive and reformed Democratic party.

I look forward to the day when the pundits of complacency and the masters of doublespeak are knocked off of their pedestals--once and for all.

[Uzybone]

44. Well said

lets focus on removing that bastard Bush. Kerry or Edwards or Kucinich or Sharton may not be perfect, but undermining them only props up Bush.

[Duder]

59. I changed my avatar...

...and added a sig.

Being from Missouri, that should show you.

People who want what is best for this country will continue to work for change, imo.

[madfloridian]

64. Hoot, Duder. Good one.

:hi:

[Duder]

67. I'm probably one of those haughty pricks.

LOL

:hi:

[Guaranteed]

60. Ain't gonna happen. We are resolute! nt

[katieforeman]

73. Good for you. You're a grown up.

Of the candidates remaining Edwards is my favorite. I'm working hard for him. If he doesn't make it I'll be disappointed but I will get behind whoever the nominee is.

Let's buy Bush that one way ticket back to Crawford, TX!

[mzmolly]

80. Since I wont have the opportunity to vote for Dean in November I intend

to leave my avatar up for the duration of the election.

And, If I had a Dean bumper sticker, I'd keep it on my car until I sold said car ... ;)

Im ABB but am totally uninspired by anyone but Dean. *yawn* He deserves my continued support/respect. I intend to give it to him anyway I can.

[littlejoe]

82. As a Kerry supporter I thank you!

[La_Serpiente]

88. I didn't approve of some of the attacks

the Osama ad was really not necessary. However, Dean did make mistakes along the way.

Both Dean and Gephardt were deluded into thinking that Iowa had turned into a two man race between them. So what to do with the competition? kill it. Their negative attacks towards each other turned off Iowa voters, and they went shopping for another candidate.

Dean was expected to do well in Iowa. When he came in 3rd place, a lot of Democrats justifiably re-evaluated their choices for whom they would vote.

Dean made mistakes along the way, and this was one of them.

[lojasmo]

91. How many posts

Have you cut and pasted that same plea into? I've seen at least two.

Congratulations on your silver TT :puke:

I'm not bitter, just uninspired by the two top runners. I'm caucusing for Howard on Tuesday, and failing sufficient support, will give my vote to Dennis.

In November, I will puke my way to the polls, and vote for whomever the democratic nominee is.

Until then, PLEASE, let me live my life as I see fit. You don't see me telling you to drive a sensible car.

[Evil_Dewers]

130. 82 posts!!!

Have you cut and pasted that same plea into? I've seen at least two.

Congratulations on your silver TT :puke:

I'm not bitter, just uninspired by the two top runners. I'm caucusing for Howard on Tuesday, and failing sufficient support, will give my vote to Dennis.

In November, I will puke my way to the polls, and vote for whomever the democratic nominee is.

Until then, PLEASE, let me live my life as I see fit. You don't see me telling you to drive a sensible car.

---

I posted my plea once yesterday in another thread, then thought it was important enough to paraphrase it and start my own thread here.

Despite you protests, thank you very much for making judgements about my vehicle. You act like I drive a Hummer.

I didn't tell any of the white Nike wearing, Hale Bopp Deaniacs what to do. I just offered a suggestion and told you what I have done and what I will do. You are free to do what you want to do. Unlike *, I believe in freedom. * believes there ought to be limits to freedom.

Howard Dean wants you to help defeat Bush. You can listen to him, or you can go away. It is your choice. Choice is freedom.

[maxanne]

155. and you call yourself

a former Dean supporter. For shame.

[Evil_Dewers]

158. a former Dean supporter. For shame

He dropped out. You don't hear the Gephardt people bitching and whining that Dick got screwed over by his own party and the media.

[maxanne]

163. a shame

that pesky free speech thing allows people to voice their opinions.

[Evil_Dewers]

196. that pesky free speech thing allows people to voice their opinions.

There is no free speech. Only purchased (bought) speech. That's what Bush's Rhenquist/Scalia/Thomas SCOTUS says: money = free speech.

[Cheswick2.0]

95. yah okay

LOL

[AgadorSparticus]

100. great post. i agree...

I am grateful for Dean for pulling me into politics and being so active. I have never donated politically before Dean. But now I am seeing the importance of activism. I plan on being a VERY active citizen come this fall. I will be passing out flyers and donating as much as I can. I don't want to look back and regret not doing more.

[Ramsey]

102. Excuse me?

I will remain a Dean supporter, thank you very much, in whatever endeavor he chooses to now pursue.

I am, as I always have been, ABB. I don't have to like the eventual nominee as much as I liked Dr. Dean, but he will get my vote, if not my sweat and dollars.

What I have never been is a "haughty prick" or "bitter". I will thank you therefore to not speak for me, my "fellow" Deaniac. This whole post is rude and condescending.

You are perpetuating the unsubstantiated MYTH in this post that the majority of Dean supporters will try to undermine the Democratic nominee in the wake of Dean's withdrawal. Please desist with such nonsense.

[Lisa0825]

108. Thank you!!!

Definitely rude and condescending... and I am disappointed at how many agreed with it. I guess it's easy to feel superior when one has jumped on the bandwagon.

[JHBowden]

104. I gave up on Dean in early January.

I thought my switch to Kerry wouldn't matter and felt kinda weird about it, while it turned out a lot of other people were simultaneously behaving the same way.

I like to throw the mud here, but don't take it too seriously. In contrast, some have waaaaay to much, emotionally and perhaps financially, invested in specific candidates.

If one is willing to leave Bush in office, they've forgotten why they've gotten involved in the first place.

[Zookeeper]

110. It's a bit scary to venture an opinion here...

I'm still new to this (or any) forum, but I do see the people who are so deeply disappointed by Dean's loss as most likely being young. Wait until you've had about 30 years of seeing many candidates you support, lose. And the media usually plays a part in liberal candidates losing. It goes with the territory. It's not right, but you have to keep your eye on the main goal, which in 2004 is to beat Dubya! You will have a better chance of promoting liberal values with a Democrat in office.

Those of us with kids have especially urgent concerns, we can't wait for the perfect candidate.

I'm writing letters, spreading the word in my community and contributing money to John Edwards. But if Kerry wins the nomination, I'll do my best for him because BUSH HAS GOT TO GO!!!!

[Lisa0825]

112. Hi Zookeeper!!! Welcome to DU!!!!

While Dean had a lot of young supporters, polls of us here have shown a pretty varied bunch. I am 35, and have always voted, but never invested my time and money like I did with Dean. I understand what you mean, but the majority of us are totally ABB. We can't necessarily expect those independents and other non-Democrats who supported Dean to give the Democrat loyalty oaths we've been repeatedly asked to make here though. But I, for one, will completely join the campaign of the nominee when that time comes.

And again, Welcome!!!:hi:

[Zookeeper]

186. Thanks for the greeting! :)

[madfloridian]

114. Welcome to DU from this not so young and not idealist person.

Actually, it is not so much about the fact that Dean lost, believe it or not. It is about the way the Democratic Party has acted toward us. We have been treated like interlopers who are odd and out of touch.

In actuality, my husband and I are very moderate in our views. We do not worship or bow down to anyone, and we will make our voting decision in our own way.

Many of our sizable group here are not Democrats and thus have no loyalty to the party.

Last year when I was activist against the war, I remember the coldness with which we were treated by our candidates' offices. It was a rude awakening.

This year when I worked so hard with the Alliance for Retired Americans against the awful Medicare bill.....I was equally frustrated. That bill could and should have been stopped.

I could go on. I have no twinkles in my eyes about any candidate. I just know that when we first heard Dean speak, it gave us hope for our country. I do not see the others doing that yet, not sincerely.

The more people make fun of us here the more I realize that maybe we are really not needed. That is not sour grapes or being a "victim", it is a sincere feeling.

[Zookeeper]

140. Thanks for the welcome...

from you and Lisa!

I'm not particularly devoted to the Democratic party. I usually voted third party until my late 20's. As much as I disliked Bush in 2000, I didn't exactly wear myself out working for Gore. (Actually, I was still wearing myself out caring for my three young kids!) Even though Nader was a childhood hero of mine, I could see that he was only going to help Dubya get elected.

I'm appalled to hear that people have treated each other so rudely. Maybe this has more to do with human nature than politics. The bantering back and forth is fun, and probably therapeutic, but anyone who recognizes what a grave threat another four years of the Bush administration poses, has got to pull back and look at the big picture. (Mother of all run-on sentences..) :)

[madfloridian]

144. I have spent hours writing and calling about the grave threat you mention.

For two years. I have been more activist than I have ever been in my life. Some of our children have even gotten politically involved.

I have had reporters tell me they wrote what they had to write. One even said, hey, I know what you mean, lady, but I need my job. One said they were told to substitute the word "lie" with "mistake" in a story about the Tampa school board.

I want to know for sure that our nominees will continue to stand up against this grave threat. I have a feeling they will take the easy route if someone is not holding their feet to the fire.

I care about my country, but I know about all our senators who have voted for the very things Bush stands for. They need to be accountable for those votes. Someone sent our boys to war based on lies....they need to say they are sorry.

[Zookeeper]

145. I can't argue with you on any of those points!

So have you read the first chapter of "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy," by Greg Palast? I'm still so angry that the media continues to ignore PROOF that the 2000 election was rigged in Florida!

I don't like the cowardice of "our side" on the issue. I just try to stay focused on how much I loathe the right-wing currently holding our government hostage, and try to defeat them.

I wish more people would see the hypocrisy of our "chickenhawk" president sending young people to die for neo-con ideology! And your point about Congress going along is well taken - they need to take responsibility for not, at least, slowing down that process so it could examined with SOME objectivity!

Young Americans (and countless Iraqis) are dying and Bush is giving us the Gay Marriage issue.

[jansu]

153. After November election when we defeat Bush, we should all get

together and either figure out a way to change this Democratic party so that it is not the "powers that be" and the media whores, which decide things, or start a new party! I hope that this is the road Dean is talking about! I will join him and work hard for it!

Until 2000 election, I had always voted third party, but knew that Bush had to be defeated. He was, and now we must get him and his gang out of power!

[jansu]

151. I am over 50, voted for Dean and until 2000 never voted for either

Democrat or Republican nominee! I still support voting for Dean in your primary, because the delegates count! You all seem to think that you have to get on the bandwagon RIGHT NOW or the world will end! Until after the Convention, Vote your choice! Not the polls! I will vote ABB in November, as I hope all thinking people will, but I may never again vote for either of these two parties.

[Zookeeper]

184. I'm in a Super Tuesday state...

So, it is time to jump on the bandwagon here, unless you want Kerry to be the nominee. And I think if Kerry is the nominee, we will lose to Bush. If someone voting on Tuesday thinks Dean (or Kucinich or Sharpton) has a chance of winning the nomination, fine. But if you are voting to make a point, you are voting for Kerry.

Unfortunately, since the media has annointed Kerry the winner, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, unless the people who are actually paying attention can unite on Tuesday for another candidate. I was at the Edwards rally in St. Paul last Saturday and 2,000 people (according to the Star Tribune) showed up to hear him. The support here is strong enough that he was making a quickly arranged visit here again today. The Edwards blog has something about a majority of Minnesota Dean supporters formally agreeing to support Edwards.

If Edwards has a weak showing on Tuesday, he is probably out. Which leaves Kerry.

[madfloridian]

193. In swing states it is different.

They have Kerry listed as 51% ahead of Edwards here. What difference would it make here? Florida's Democratic chair has spoken out for Kerry and hurt Dean's chances here in many ways.

Kerry is way ahead of Edwards here, so that should be my decision.

[Zookeeper]

202. I have no idea what the party establishment is predicting here.

I have felt the interest in Edwards here in Minnesota. And I talked to a variety of people at the rally who had been supporting other candidates, but felt that Edwards had a better chance of winning and was more likable than Kerry. Having 2,000 people there, indicated some momentum to me.

Kerry was here this week, also. I still don't know how many turned out to see him. Kerry also appears to have the support of most of the local Dem big dogs. Senator Dayton endorsed Kerry, but hedged his bets by saying, "I also like John Edwards." I get the impression that the Kerry endorsements are more about party loyalty and their future careers in the party, than actual enthusiasm.

[madfloridian]

203. Originally, only Clark and Dean were viable here.

Kerry was an *. Then even before Iowa, things began to change. Scott Maddox made his remarks in the NYT on January 29. Articls began to appear in papers here about Kerry being so electable. Dean was described "by party officials" as "angry" and "too liberal."

Then after Iowa Kerry soared in the polls here.

[Zookeeper]

205. Do you think Dean should have spent more...

time in Iowa?

[regnaD kciN]

111. Sorry...

It is time my fellow Deaniacs get over this loss, and remove their egotistical Dean signature lines as well.

Here's why I'm not removing my Dean avatar:

At my precinct caucus, I was elected a delegate to the King County Democratic Convention, pledged to Howard Dean. Until such time as he releases his delegates, I remain pledged to Howard Dean, and shall cast my vote for him at the convention.

Should he formally release his delegates, and either throw his support to another candidate or instruct us to vote our conscience, I will change my avatar (to what, I do not know). Similarly, once I have cast my vote at County (except for the unlikely occurrence that I then get selected as a delegate to the Washington State Convention, still pledged to Dean), my committment will have been kept and I will change my avatar. Until then, though, the Dean poster stays.

[madfloridian]

115. In his speech tonight he said these things.

He said we should vote as we wished in the primaries. He said he is still on the ballots, but if we preferred another we could vote for them. He did not recommend.

I wish I had been there. He is going to give more details on March 18 on his new movement, and he is going to keep nagging the others to tell the truth.

They say he looked and sounded great, laughing and joking.

[regnaD kciN]

117. That's for future primaries...

My "primary" (caucus) has already been held, and I was elected to cast a vote for Dr. Dean at the County Convention. Therefore, if he "releases" his delegates won in previous primaries, I will consider myself freed to vote according to my own consicence. If, however, he wants to keep his bloc of delegates, I'm still committed to follow my charge.

[CWebster]

123. Here is a clue

I will never peel the Dean for America bumpersticker off my car. I trust I don't have to say more.

[Larkspur]

124. I'm keeping my Dean bumper stickers on and am still voting for him on

March 2. Dean suspended his campaigning and is still on the ballot in almost every state.

If Dean didn't do the wonderful things he did last year, I'd be writing in Bugs Bunny on March 2. Voting for Dean is not a victimhood thing for me. It's following my beliefs. I will not vote for the pro-war candidates in the Primary and I don't like DK because he's a left wing ideologue.

I'll vote ABB in November, but will not donate money or time to Kerry. The primary responsibility of donating to Kerry falls on those who voted for him in the primaries, not those like me, who supported another candidate.

[hippiechick]

133. Egotistical ?

"...It is time my fellow Deaniacs get over this loss, and remove their egotistical Dean signature lines as well. Face the facts: Howard dropped out after losing badly and blowing $40 mil and not winning even one primary..."


BITE ME.


:hippie:

[INTELBYTES]

146. Wow! You summed it up well for many of us with that reply!

Thanks Hippiechick! :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

152. My sticker is staying until it fades away...as a reminder to all of what

could have been. :hi:

[janx]

156. Mine too, Ms. G. It'll stay on my Jeep until the Jeep itself

is no more. ;-)

[ScreamingMeemie]

206. A toast to you janx!

:toast:

[maxanne]

157. I absolutely

love being told what to do. Thanks, alleged former Dean supporter.

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evil_Dewers]

165. A lot of those pics were at Free Republic

No comment. You just revealed yourself.


So now I'm a fucking freep shit freeper?!?!?! Gee, you started by calling me a liar (said I wasn't a true Dean supporter) and finished with calling me a freeper.

I haven't had a freep account that lasted longer than a day. I get banned as a DU Troll every time I visit that cesspool of filth.

---

Read post #33 by RL:

Maybe I'll stay home and watch the DLC Coronation get trounced and come back here and gloat, pointing out all these threads.

---

That's freeper-like talk. Oh, but RL's a "true Dean supporter."

[madfloridian]

167. I used none of those words?? You used them.

Good gracious.

[Evil_Dewers]

170. I used none of those words?? You used them. Good gracious.

madfloridian (1000+ posts) Fri Feb-27-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #161

162. A lot of those pics were at Free Republic.


No comment. You just revealed yourself.

---

You wrote "Free Republic" and "You just revealed yourself."

You implied I was a apeshit freeper. As I said before, most of the dead-enders (Deaniacs) refuse to take any responsibility for their own bad acts here when Dean was the front runner and blame everyone else (the Dem party, Dems, the DLC, the media, the GOP, aliens) for Dean's missteps, gaffs, mishandling of money, and his ultimately utterly failed and miserable campaign. You tell me how Dean was going to balance the federal budget when he blew $40 million and ended up $400 thousand in the hole without winning even one frickin' primary (no results)?

[madfloridian]

182. You really need to calm down.

You are just too angry. That is not the kind of anger that is healthy.

[Evil_Dewers]

189. You are just too angry. That is not the kind of anger that is healthy.

I attended the Howie Dean School of Charm.

[hippiechick]

195. "I know you are but what am I?"

Jayzus, grow UP already ....


:hippie:

[Evil_Dewers]

198. Jayzus, grow UP already ....

hippiechick (1000+ posts)
133. Egotistical ?


"...It is time my fellow Deaniacs get over this loss, and remove their egotistical Dean signature lines as well. Face the facts: Howard dropped out after losing badly and blowing $40 mil and not winning even one primary..."


BITE ME.

[Evil_Dewers]

166. Those pictures were all over the internet...

Not just in freeperville.

Jesus help me.

[maxanne]

164. everyone who

dares to disagree with you is crazy?

The Olympic Sexist Committee gives you an 7 for attempts to be demeaning to a female poster.

[Evil_Dewers]

168. everyone who disagrees with you is crazy

No, just the ones who call me a supposed former Dean supporter, not a true Dean supporter, a liar, a sell-out, stupid, a freeper, etc...

"The Olympic Sexist Committee gives you an 7 for attempts to be demeaning to a female poster."

You know, we "real left wingers" shouldn't cry "racism/sexism/homophobia/bigotry/anti-semitism" every time we get our asses kicked. It demeans true racism/sexism/homophobia/bigotry/anti-semitism and makes us appear like helpless victims (weak).

I now hope Dean runs as Nader's Veep (haha) and the US has four more years of the Bush cabal. ;) Because I'm gonna move to Vancouver, BC, to become a Canuck, eh. And you hosers can take off, eh.

[maxanne]

169. if you were really

any of the things you say you are, you wouldn't be using sexist, demeaning terms. Enjoy your delusions.

[Evil_Dewers]

172. sexist, demeaning terms

Like what, "sweetheart?" "Honey?" "Darling?"




You want to hear some real sexist, demeaning terms?

Hey, hopefully, I'm going to get a Lewinsky from my wife tonight.

Q. How were Lucille Ball and Monica Lewinsky alike?

A. Both had a Cuban in them.



Ah, how I long for peace, prosperity, Bill Clinton and the biggest crisis in this country was whether or not the president lied about getting blow jobs.

Now, delude yourself into thinking that Howard Dean is still relevant, the girl who cried wolf.

[maxanne]

175. since I haven't mentioned

Dean's relevence or lack of, anywhere on this thread, your point is meaningless at best.

A Lewinsky, eh? I didn't know the inflatibles could do that these days.

[Evil_Dewers]

181. A Lewinsky, eh? I didn't know the inflatibles could do that these days.

Thanks for the ad hominem.

Deaniacs sure are a classy lot. I think I need a shower.

[maxanne]

185. oh,

and I thought you used to be a Dean supporter??

ad hominem??

Mr Pot meets Mr Kettle - and the results are obsidian.

[Evil_Dewers]

188. and I thought you used to be a Dean supporter??

I was. Then I grew up.

[maxanne]

190. funny

a search of your posts in this section doesn't reveal a single one supporting Dean.

:shrug:

[Evil_Dewers]

199. a search of your posts in this section doesn't reveal a single one support

They are hidden in the blowup doll section.

Thanks for implying that I am a liar--again.

[maxanne]

208. I made a simple

statement based on evidence.

[lojasmo]

171. Okay "sweetheart"

Move away. I hope Vancouver has a total lack of internet access.

BTW, the audi TT is a middlife crisis car. Very little functional value, shit gas mileage.

I drive a VW golf TDI. Sama platform as the TT, but it fits 5 people, a huge ammount of cargo, and gets 2.2 x the mileage. I say again Audi TT :puke:

As far as my sticker, it stays on. As far as your previous "support" of HD, I still refuse to look up your old posts. You, in just this one thread, have been more vitreolic than any Dean supporter I've seen on this board.

ciao.

[Evil_Dewers]

178. I drive a VW golf TDI

--a four banger Diesel with 100 hp sucks. If you live in a cold climate, good luck getting your car started in the morning.

Your diesel probably polutes much more than my premium gasoline car does--especially since I only drive a total of 9 miles to work and back every day and diesel cars are much bigger poluters.

Oh, I would have never judged your vehicle choice unless you had first judge me by my choice of vehicle. I like my car because it is fun to drive. Yet I don't even drive it that much. My wife has a Mini-Cooper. You want to judge her, too? Needless to say, grocery shopping is impractical in my car. But so what? I don't drive a 12 mpg Lincoln Navigator.


Read my previous post on actual sexist, demeaning terms.

I used "sweetheart" to be condescending, not demeaning.

"I hope Vancouver has a total lack of internet access."

Unfortunately for you, they don't. It is Canada, not North Korea.

[Evil_Dewers]

183. You, in just this one thread, have been more vitreolic

No, I've been "vitriolic," not "vitreolic."

...And with very good reason, if you read all the replies I received from the hangers-on (Deaniacs).

Hell, you decided to make fun of my car, for chrissakes.

Mad max anne claimed I used inflatables (sex dolls).

Mad Floridian implied I was a goddamned freeper.

And so on...

[Schmendrick54]

173. This is probably stating the obvious, but,....

Hello Evil_Dewers,

I realize I am arriving kinda late to this party, but I just thought I would offer you some friendly advice.

First of all, let me say that I take you at your word that you are a former Dean supporter who thinks we would all be best served by moving on. I have no real problem with that idea (even if I disagree with the timing), and under the circumstances think it is eminently reasonable for you to post a "plea" to your "fellow Deaniacs". As a "fellow Deaniac" (who plans to work hard for the party's nominee) it seems to me that your "plea" may have been a little more successful if you had left out some of the more colorful prose in your request. For example, "egotistical signature lines" and "haughty pricks" are phrases that would seem to be counterproductive when trying to convince their targets to join you.

I'm just sayin'.

Regards,
Schmendrick

[Evil_Dewers]

187. Schmendrick

I tried. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

I also stated they may do whatever they wish, since they hate being told what to do--yeah, like we all love being told what to do. ;) *L*

I truly was embarrassed by the arrogance of some of the Deaniacs here just two or three months ago.

Many of them did act like pricks, but now they act like defiant sore losers.

Please keep your Dean siggy lines, Deaniacs. Then I'll be warned to take anything you post will a grain of salt.

[Rich Hunt]

176. take it up with William Greider

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040308&s=greider

...but I suppose Greider is 'naive', 'inexperienced', and has no track record of responsible journalism.

People like Dr. Dean, don't take it personally.

[Evil_Dewers]

191. The Nation?

Ralph :puke: Nader called them the "liberal intelligencia" when they said he shouldn't run.

[spooky3]

201. Love your "handle" and love those Pacers (and Colts)! eom

[mdmc]

209. If it is any help, I once used this pic in my sig line

now its just my avi.

Progress!

[frustrated_lefty]

210. I'll agree with one point:

Don't be bitter. I think a lot of us aren't bitter, though some may still be. A lot of us are promoting an agenda spawned by Dean and we're pissed the politicos refuse to even notice these issues.

Example: Dean said, essentially, 'I think it's up to states to decide what to do about gay marriage.' Kerry said 'I, personally, oppose gay marriage.' Dubya said 'I, personally, oppose gay marriage.' Kerry and Bush are willing to ALLOW civil unions. But the possibility of gay marriage is off the fucking table, it's off quivering in a closet.

This isn't simply frustrated Deanies sulking and pouting cuz they just didn't get their way. Things in this nation are sincerely fucked up and we have had enough. ENOUGH.