If a prominent Obama surrogate described Clinton as "hysterical" I'd be pissed!

[Hello_Kitty]

As a woman, I would find it incredibly offensive and might even consider supporting her because I'm tired of that misogynist garbage.

I'm delurking after about a 2 year absence (Skinner, I'll donate just as soon as I have my wallet! Promise!) and I cannot believe that there are people defending Andrew Cuomo's disgusting slur. I don't blame Hillary for it and I don't expect any of her supporters to abandon her over it but come on! Make no mistake, Cuomo did NOT misspeak. He may have been imprudent in the venue in which he chose to air that comment, but no one says 'shuck and jive' without it having a racist overtone. Ever.

[Thrill]

1. I think as this goes on, you're going to see a lot of Democrats

show their true colors as far as race and gender are concerned. They won't be able to control their tongue

[zulchzulu]

2. Yeah, but he's a Hillary supporter. You learn to expect this kind of nonsense

The bar is so low on integrity with most of the Hillary supporters who bring up crap like how Barack was a Muslim, what he wrote in kindergarden and how his obvious opinion that that Iraq war was not the way to go by calling it a "fairy tale".

You expect a fair amount of Hillary fans to talk trash and out of their ass. Not all, but certainly there is a pattern. It's part of the way this campaign is.

[Essene]

3. hmm, the term "hysterical" is a very apt comparison

The Clinton campaign needs to change course... fast.

This is going to cause a backlash that could hurt BOTH campaigns and actually hurt the Democrats in general.

I'm in awe at this stuff... and I'm keeping a record.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FACT CHECK UPDATES:


### He's likely to get assassinated.

Yes, somebody who introduced Hillary Clinton emphasized the comparison with JFK and how he got killed. “Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated." The Clinton admin distanced themselves from his comments, calling them inappropriate, but the damage was done. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### He's no MLK.

She dissed MLK first of all, suggesting REAL change only happened because of President Johnson not MLK's dream. She then implied that he doesn't remotely compare to MLK or Kennedy. "“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." Think about what she's actually saying. Sad. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

Think about it...

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act.” “It took a president to get it done.”

“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches. President Kennedy was in Congress for 14 years. He was a war hero. He was a man of great accomplishments and readiness to be president. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led a movement. He was gassed. He was beaten. He was jailed. And he gave a speech that was one of the most beautifully, profoundly important speeches ever written in America, the “I have a dream” speech. And then he worked with President Johnson to get the civil rights laws passed, because the dream couldn’t be realized until finally it was legally permissible for people of all colors and backgrounds and races and ethnicities to be accepted as citizens."

### Al qaeda will strike!!

"Look what happened in Great Britain," she said. "Tony Blair leaves, Gordon Brown comes in, the very next day, there are terrorist attacks... So you've got to be prepared on Day One with everything ready to go." Sorry, but that's a disgraceful comment, directly suggesting terrorist will strike with the election of Obama. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/05/cnr.06.html

### Flip flopper.

Just watch the ABC debate from 1/5/08. She repeated this charge in various ways, although in fairness she did get into specifics in a few cases (which i think is fair game if you challenge the record itself on the issues). However, for a couple months... this has been her primary charge against him. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530

### Male chuavanism and the gender card.

Folks may reasonably disagree on the interpretation, but she's clearly playing the gender card lately - even implied that her gender alone equates to meaningful change in the White House (just imagine the outcry if Obama said that about being black). She said that in the 1/5/08 debate. Similarly, the spin out of NH is that his comment was rude and poor Hillary's being beaten up on by the boys *tear*. That's how i intepret this spin, and it seems very clear to me. And if you question her crying about her campaign hardships, she implies THAT is male chuavanism too. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530 & http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clintons-candid-assessment/

And additionally... i'd like to just focus on this clip from the NH Debate. She was attacked on the issue of likability. She joked that he's likable. He DEFENDED HER in return. She even says "i appreciate that," yet all the Clinton spin doctors (and Rove) are trying to pretend he attacked her. Watch for yourself and be honest. These 2 were just handling an obnoxious question with grace, but now the Clinton base is trying to turn this into a chuavanistic attack by him? Get real. Watch it. It was friendly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7RuzYvtCw

### Bush 3.0

"He’s very likable . I agree with that…. You know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with." “I think it’s good to have a likeable president. But if I remember right, many people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush. Maybe they should’ve left it at that – have a beer, don’t vote him in as our president.” It's a slick way to deflect the likability argument, but she even tries to imply this has policy implications, electing an inexperienced guy just because he's likable.

### False hope.

"An untested man who offers false hope." "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." Clinton herself said this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012851.php

### Obama lacks depth and reality.

"On a lot of these issues it is hard to know where he stands, and people need to ask that." "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'" Clinton said that herself. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1

### Obama is soft on crime.

"Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges." "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world." http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for-op_n_79918.html

### Obama is just poetry.

She's been stumping with comments about how he's just talking poetry and she's ready to govern with prose. Cute. " a doer, not a talker." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_rdp

### Obama is just a fairy tale.

Bill Clinton's rant the other day that i think shocked more than a few of us. Clinton flat out called Obama a liar, said he was a fairy tale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama is in this still because of blind media.

Bill Clinton also suggested it was "wrong" that Obama has been able to get through 15 debates without being called a liar by the press. He implies the blind, uncritical media is the problem. "The press never reported on" yadda yadda. "Give me a break!" He thought Hillary was going to lose NH and was basically blaming the media for this "fairy tale." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama is too conservative.

They claimed he was "unwilling to take a stand on choice." His controversial gay marriage position is a legitimate issue, for sure, but they've tried to paint him as too conservative. http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

### Muslim extremist.

Several Clinton campaign folks were removed over this. One may argue this absolves her from responsibility, yet anybody paying attention realizes this smear is arguably one of higher impact ones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/second-clinton-volunteer-_n_76047.html

### Drug record makes him unelectable.

Top Clinton advisor steps down after making various arguments about how Obama can't get elected due to his drug use. http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/

### Obama is too liberal.

"Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with 'left-wing' intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

### Obama just shucks and jives

Andrew Cuomo, NY Attorney General, and Clinton fan... came out swingin at Obama after NH primary. “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference,” he added. “All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.” http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Dept_of_word_choice.html

[Big Blue Marble]

4. Are they really defending that comment?

I have not read the thread. But that is really disappointing. And yes I am not a Hillary supporter. But
I too got mad when those guys were screaming that demeaning "iron my shirts comment." And would
be furious if anyone said that she was hysterical.

[ieoeja]

8. Only a handful or fewer. n/t

[Barack_America]

15. Few are defending it, most are dismissing it. Which may actually be worse. n/t

[Big Blue Marble]

19. That makes me cry, how very sad.

[Donna Zen]

36. Boston Radio

My daughter told me that she listens to a drive-time Boston station. The guys who pulled off the "Iron My Shirts" thing are DJs there. She said that they are not all that political knowledgeable but in the past they've supported Guilliani. Anyway, they've been getting pro & con calls; however, they did it for the buzz.

My point is that this not Democrats dissing another Democrat. And that is exactly the kind of shit the Clinton Camp has been pulling, and then they say "oops!"

[Big Blue Marble]

39. It is worse when Dems do it to each other. That is the worst.

The Clintons play rough take no prisoners politics. It is Obama that wants
to change this discourse. But it maybe too late. Too many people like dirty politics
because it works. And that is what we will continue to get, until we stand up and
say enough. Damn it, I am as passionate and partisan as they come and I am tired of
it. That's why I am a strong supporter of Obama. Hopefully, he will lead us out of
this pigpen.

[terisan]

5. Check out Jesse Jackson Jr comments on Clinton. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

6. And?

I will and if they're misogynistic, I'll be pissed.

[LostinVA]

13. THey are

[Hello_Kitty]

18. Did he make them on national TV?

[DURHAM D]

23. Yes - he made them yesterday during an interview with

Nora on MSNBC.

He wants Hillary's tears analyzed.

He also claimed that she cried because of an appearance (hair) question.

I watched it live and then again on youtube. What he did is in no way helpful to Obama. However, I see no outrage. Go figure.

[Hello_Kitty]

31. Uh, you seem to be outraged. So there's some.

Look, I'll have to see the footage. If he said offensive stuff, that will cause me to look askance at Obama too. I haven't made my mind up who I'm supporting yet and this shit pushes me over.

[LostinVA]

33. Oh, it was offensive, and it was more than a sentence

Uh, lots of us dislike Cuomo's comment.

[DURHAM D]

20. You won't be happy.

Beyond sexist. JJJr. is a pig.

[William769]

7. Pardon what I am about to say but many on DU have taken a play from the last debate

Right out of Obama's and Edwards playbook. It didn't work then and it's not working now.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. I have no idea what you're talking about and I honestly don't care.

[William769]

14. And thats one of the problems.

[LostinVA]

25. And, there is also that

I agree.

[jenmito]

32. It was only Edwards attacking. He's trying to look relevant by hitching his wagon to Obama.

But Obama didn't say anything negative. Edwards started claiming he and Obama are the "change agents," that she didn't make such attacks when she was winning, etc. Edwards helped Hillary and hurt himself AND Obama.

[BootinUp]

9. Try googling Shuck and Jive

It appears to me it is used more than you all think it is and not often in a racist way.

I would agree if people said it seemed insensitive or inappropriate. But racist?

I would also note that Cuomo claims he was not referring to Obama.

[babylonsister]

11. So now you're making excuses for what he said? Very sad. nt

[BootinUp]

12. Nice thoughtful response. nt

[babylonsister]

22. You're making excuses for something said that was inexcusable

though most assuredly calculated. Didn't take me much to see through your response.
When someone says or does something wrong, I don't try to defend them regardless because of what camp it's coming from.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. Nonsense

Just because it's not being used against a black person at a particular time doesn't mean it's not racist. I also take anything Cuomo has to say after the incident with a giant grain of salt. It's like what's his bucket who was trying to act like "oh but I meant that his Muslim background was a GOOD thing, really I did!"

[Big Blue Marble]

26. Hey, you can not say shuck and jive without it sounding racist.

And any smart pol should know whether he means it or not, do not say it if it could be construed as racist.
Please do not waste your time rationalizing such an ugly statement.

[BootinUp]

28. too late, my friend.

but I appreciate the tone you took.

[Jai4WKC08]

54. I think you make a good point, Jim

I'm not trying to make excuses for Cuomo, because I didn't hear what he said and I don't know the context, nor do I know what he might have meant.

But that said, it would not have occurred to me that "shuck and jive" was a racist expression. I would have considered it to be one of the MANY expressions that have originated within the black community but are now used commonly by people of all colors. And a quick google seems to confirm as much.

I dunno. Maybe my impression is based on growing up in the South or maybe it's from spending most of my adult life in the military, spending a lot of time among black folks. Or maybe I'm just an insensitive clod. For sure I'll try to be more careful about that one in the future.

[BootinUp]

56. Thanks Jai, you probably handled

that better than I did.

[aquart]

17. I think the elephant in the room stuck its foot in his mouth.

Happens all the time, but he'll never live it down.

[LostinVA]

21. I agree with you -- and look at my avatar

I think, however, a problem is that some Obama supporters and "supporters" on here are quick to say it's HRC's fault, her campaign is behind it, HRC's racist, etc. So, then I THINK we see a few people who deplore the comment, but who kinda defend it because their candidate is being tarred with the same brush. I don't agree with that, just like I don't agree with Clinton being attacked and accused over something someone else did.

He should have said "bob and weave."


on edit: Because I know SOMEONE will say it: I am not qualifying/excusing/whatever what was said. I think it was in appropriate.

[BootinUp]

27. I want to be clear

Any defense I am offering up for Cuomos comments are because I think the phrase is in a gray area. Not clear cut enough for the lambasting he is taking. There is such a thing as over doing political correctness.

That doesn't mean it was a smart thing to say, it was off color and trying to be a little too hip imho.

[LostinVA]

29. I also don't disagree with some of what you say

The JJr thing was fully as bad as this, and that didn't generate anywhere near as much as the heat we're seeing today. I wish BOTH had received the heat!

I bet you $$$ someone won't like your "off color."

[Hello_Kitty]

34. He should have said bob and weave, but didn't.

It leads me to believe that there is something going on in the Clinton campaign, and it's coming from the top, for that phrase to slide from Cuomo's tongue so easily.

A good friend of mine (and a regular on DU) is a big Obama supporter. I kid her that she's drinking the koolaid but I gotta say, I'm impressed by his campaign. I've been down to the campaign office a few times, most recently to watch the NH returns. I'm not going to say no one was trashing-talking Hillary there, I'd be a liar if I did. But when a woman started spouting off sexist garbage about her crying one of the staffers told her that kind of talk wasn't acceptable.

That impressed me and I can tell it's an organizationally entrenched thing. I'm not sure about all of Obama's stances, but I gotta say he is running one fine campaign and that says a lot about his ability to get things done. Now that Hillary's office has FINALLY opened here (which also says a lot to me since Obama's several months ago) I'm going to check out her campaign operation and see the sense I get from it.

[robbedvoter]

24. Well, Jesse Jackson kinda did just that - were you pissed? But I agree,

I loathe Andrew Cuomo with a passion, always did. Since his answer in 2000 when running for governor: will your father name be a problem in winning it? "How can it be - look who's in the White house now" Andrew has been in Gore's campaign and saw the theft up close, yet chose to legitimize Bush - right after the coup.

[LostinVA]

30. It wasn't kinda -- he did worse than call HRC "hysterical"

And yet, the statement today has generated much more outrage. Why? IS sexism more accepted than racism? Does that mean Senator Obama is a racist and is orchestrating this slime? I don't think so, just as I don't think HRC is.

BOTH should have generated ALOT of outrage. They both suck.

[Hello_Kitty]

37. Okay I saw Jackson's comments

What he said was insulting and trivializing to Clinton. His point that she "should be crying over Katrina" or whatever is a bogus red herring too.

Doesn't rise to "shuck and jive" level to me, but that's just IMO.

[LostinVA]

44. Of course it's as bad -- it's sexist

Just as the shuck and jive is racist. Zero difference.

[Hello_Kitty]

47. No, calling her "hysterical" would be just as bad. That's why I used that example.

Not defending Jackson's remarks. They were shitty but not the kind of code words that provoke visceral responses, like 'hysterical' and 'shuck and jive' do. Karl Rove called Obama 'lazy' in the Wall St. Journal today. What do you think that was meant to do?

[LostinVA]

35. Poeple are calling ronnykmarshall a racist because he supports HRC

As well as ALL HRC supporters... and using "shuck and jive" to accuse him.

I am tired of this garbage.

[Hello_Kitty]

38. I bet Obama supporters are sick of being called homophobes.

I saw that several times when I started delurking recently.

[William769]

40. Well in case you missed any that I have said.

Obama supporters are homophobes!

[Hello_Kitty]

46. OK, so Clinton supporters are racists then.

[LostinVA]

41. They are if they defend McCurkin

I'm starting to see why you came back here.

[William769]

43. BIGOTS stick together thats why.

[Hello_Kitty]

45. Oh jeez, I'm a troll now.

Addressing your post, though, I have to ask if you think people are defending McClurkin or if they're defending Obama.

I can't imagine anyone on a democratic site taking up for a guy who thinks Jesus cured him of his gayness and that gays are "killing children". Not without getting their ass tombstoned pretty quick. I'm guessing it's more people who don't think their candidate should be tarred by associating with someone.

My take on the McClurkin deal, and you're probably gonna hate me for it, is that Obama couldn't take Donnie Boy off the performance without offending the southern Black religious community. It's not like they wouldn't have noticed. It would have been spun as Obama throwing them under the bus to appease the gay community. Doesn't help matters that the gay community is portrayed as being mostly white and affluent by the media. It would not have gone over well down there and may have caused a political backlash against gays. It was a stupid rookie mistake not to vet him thoroughly. Him having performed for Bush at the RNC convention should have been a big enough red flag.

That's just MHO, I will sure stay the hell away from the subject from now on. :hide:

[Occam Bandage]

48. I have seen very, very, very few people attempting to defend McClurkin.

[Bluebear]

49. Haha haHAHA ahhaahah aHAAHA HAahaha

:rofl:

'It was ONE SONG performed at a concert in a SMALL TOWN and he was just invited because of his VOICE, not his VIEWS, and anybody who disagrees is RACIST!'


There's the nutshell version of what I have seen. Very very very few my ass.

[Occam Bandage]

50. Okay. So...um...one? That's very, very, very few to me.

[Bluebear]

51. No, that is the distilled version of many Obama apologist's sentiments.

[Occam Bandage]

52. "Many." I have seen an absolutely tiny number of McClurkin apologists. It sounds like

you're trying to smear a group based on the actions of a reprehensible minority--a minority that most of that group disagrees with.

[Bluebear]

53. You also arrived here in December, not during the event, right?

[Occam Bandage]

55. Well, I don't know how bad it was during the affair,

but I think we're talking present and not past tense. I don't know who's changed their tune and who's gone silent without an apology, though, I will grant that.

[BootinUp]

42. I think that is also over the top. nt