Anyone else sick and tired of being told to 'line up' behind Kerry?

[Cuban_Liberal]

There have been quite a few 'unity' threads posted here of late, and I'm frankly insulted by them. John Kerry has about 1/3 of the delegates needed to secure the nomination and 70+% of the voters haven't even had a chance to vote yet, including most of the South and Midwest.

Enough's enough, folks! If Kerry wins, he wins, and if he doesn't, it's because the PEOPLE will have decided otherwise. Please quit trying to shovel dirt into our faces while we are still VERY MUCH alive.

Thank you.

Edit: typo

[MrPeepers]

1. It's a deal.

[Cuban_Liberal]

3. Thank you!

:hi:

[MrPeepers]

6. I don't support...

people calling for a "line up behind Kerry" type thing either. Support the candidate you agree with. Whoever wins, wins. I WILL make that call in the GE, but not in the Primaries, nor should anyone else.

Peepers

[Padraig18]

101. I agree, Peepers.

Come the GE, I'm ABB. Until then, people should support the candidate they believe in.

[Sugarbleus]

148. Ditto that MP, I'm having some serious reservations anyway

I seriously want to throttle * but I'm not excited about Kerry at this point either. JK doesn't doesn't speak to my concerns.....so we'll see how it goes.

Boy, this election period is the most tense I've ever been involved in. Sometimes it's invigorating other times its way too stressful.

[BruinAlum]

2. I'm a lot more sick of shit like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=401759&mesg_id=401759

[lancdem]

21. That thread IS insulting

[redqueen]

27. That's just silly. n/t

[Rowdyboy]

43. Consider the source...

[littlejoe]

80. Now THIS is offensive!

[Padraig18]

87. I can't believe that that flame bait hasn't been locked.

:puke:

[sangha]

4. I can't belive a candidate's supporters

are posting arguments as to why other DUers should vote for their candidate. And during a campaign!!

I'm shocked!

[Cuban_Liberal]

7. It's not that.

I dont mind the 'please support my candidate because he's the best' threads; it's the 'unless you support Kerry NOW, you're only helping Bush' type crap that gets my goat.

[littlejoe]

125. Better get used to it!

[Padraig18]

131. Why?

:shrug:

[slinkerwink]

5. I've been sick and tired of this for the past month and a half

[meegbear]

17. Yeah, let's all goosestep behind Dean

[jpgray]

8. Most of these are for the GE, *assuming* Kerry is the nominee

They should make it clear that this is the case. The primaries are not over. If anyone is saying 'forget your candidate in the primary and vote Kerry', then I agree with you.

[Cuban_Liberal]

10. Those are the threads I mean.

I'm ABB in the GE.

[littlejoe]

95. Ignore us, if we bother you so much.

[Padraig18]

97. Why should he?

He's a member of DU, and is entitled to participate in any thread he so desires.

[littlejoe]

127. Why shouldn't he?

[Padraig18]

133. Because he has every right to participate here.

Simple concept.

[littlejoe]

9. I have a right to keep shovelling dirt.

If you don't like it, well, I can't help that.

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. Then you'll have no objection to me throwing it right back at you, then?

As long as that's understood, let 'er rip...

[littlejoe]

51. The difference is this:

You may be insulted at my ABB threads, but that is NO match as to how insulted I will be when your behavior elects the G.O.D. to another term.

[Cuban_Liberal]

52. Oh, PLEASE!

My behavior is not going to elect bush. The histrionics contained in that statement are laughable!

[littlejoe]

96. Amazing. I see nothing amusing in what you are doing!

[littlejoe]

98. Were you one of those Nader voters who elected the G.O.D.

the first time around?

[Padraig18]

100. Why would you think that?

Just because he doesn't support Kerry makes him a Naderite? :wtf:

[littlejoe]

129. Why wouldn't I think that? His threads speak for themselves.

[Padraig18]

134. His threads speak to an ABB Edwards supporter.

Can you prove differently?

[Padraig18]

99. Interesting--- I see nothing democratic in silencing others.

This rush to silence every candidate who is not John Kerry is very undemocratic. BTW, histrionics is a fancy way of saying 'hissy fit'.

[littlejoe]

132. One thing I don't need is a dictionary lesson. Contrary to most

people, I have read the dictionary. (cover to cover)

[Padraig18]

135. And?

:shrug:

[w13rd0]

149. You have read the dictionary cover to cover?

Hahahaah...are you absolutely CERTAIN that's a claim you want to make, even if true? You don't have to "read the dictionary cover to cover" to know how to use proper English and have a decent vocabulary, but I'm sure it helps when one wants to be "nuanced"...

[BL_Zebub]

26. I'll bet my pitchfork is quicker than your shovel.

You would be wise not to tempt the Devil :evilgrin:

[Debi]

36. I don't think it's dirt

You're shovelling lj

[Padraig18]

143. We dont like it.

And it's apparent that some don't like us fighting back, either. :)

[littlejoe]

12. I am insulted that a "democrat" is willing to put Bush back in the

White House.

[littlejoe]

13. And where is YOUR math that "proves" anyone but Kerry can win?

[Cuban_Liberal]

15. YOU asserted the proposition, not me.

You asserted it, you prove it.

[littlejoe]

54. I gave you the math, but you chose to ignore it. Just like the

people who still believe that Neil Armstrong never set foot on the moon.

By the way, I'm still waiting for your math. Haven't seen it yet, well after an hour.

Is it that you are having a hard time trying to defend an indefensable position?

[Cuban_Liberal]

57. You did not provide any MATH

You parrotted the opinion of a DINO talking head. 'Math' involves hard numbers, and state-by-state breakdowns.

Nice try.

[Padraig18]

93. He's right--- you haven't provided a mathematical proof.

:)

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Padraig18]

105. That is not a mathematical proof.

That is, at best, a sweeping generalization. A mathematical proof would demonstrate on a state-by-state basis how it is mathematically impossible for any candidate to win the nomination other than John Kerry. Your statement does not do that.

[Debi]

40. said it before lj

Until a candidate reaches over 2100 (sorry..could someone give me the exact number) he's NOT the nominee..Brokered convention is a very real possibility - then Kerry will have to woo delegates that didn't support him in the first place...with people that have your attitude trying to help him...I don't see it.

[littlejoe]

56. Mine is a realistic attitude. One that is shared by many, but

needs to be adopted by many more.

[Padraig18]

90. He's correct, actually.

In a debate, the person asserting a proposition bears the burden of proving the truth of it. You initially asserted that it was 'mathematically impossible' for anyone else to be nominated; logically, the burden of proving that assertion falls upon you, and must be demonstrated using mathematics and statistical analysis. You have not yet done so, so CL need not 'prove' anything whatsoever.

[littlejoe]

103. Obviously you have not read my many posts on this subject.

[Padraig18]

107. I have, actually.

You have yet to prove mathematrically that no one but John Kerry can become the nominee.

[littlejoe]

140. You refuse to say just how your candidate can win. How it is

NOT mathematically impossible, while I, on the other hand have laid out my mathematical equation on FOUR different occasions in TWO different threads.

You have nothing to offer, in the way of a rebuttle.

when you argue with me, you had better come armed with the facts, or I will slice you up, just as I have.

[Padraig18]

142. I did not make the initial assertion.

You have not met your burden of proof, which the person putting forth the initial proposition must meet. That's a rule you learn in debate in high school, or at least I learned it then.

[Cuban_Liberal]

14. No Democrat I know is willing to do that.

Care to name names?

[littlejoe]

59. You, for one.

[Cuban_Liberal]

67. And by what 'logic' would you conclude that?

:wtf:

[Padraig18]

94. How does his supporting a Democrat aide Bush?

That makes no sense at all, frankly.

[littlejoe]

104. I can't believe I STILL have to spell it out for you!

[Padraig18]

109. Then spell it out.

I have yet to see a rational explanation ofhow supporting Edwards (pr DK, AS, et al) is 'aiding Bush'...

[EXE619K]

18. Well, Zell Miller wants it.

And I haven't heard a whole lot from Terry Mac and Al Fromm.

By the way, When's John Kerry going to denounce Zell Miller?

has he done so yet?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[littlejoe]

60. Sounds as though I'm wearing you down, debi old girl.

[Padraig18]

88. No Democrat is doing that.

A spirited primary is a good thing; witness all the FREE media coverage we keep getting, and everyone is attacking BUSH. Chaallenging your preferred candidate is not 'helping' Bush. :eyes:

[YNGW]

16. Like seemingly many Democrats across the country...

... once Kerry won Iowa and NH, the state primary voters in the following elections just went with the flow. You know, everyone wants to go with a winner, even if they don't know what s/he stands for. I think you have the same phenomenon happening here. Did people actually examine his record, or did they just line up because everyone else was lining up? I'll go with the latter.

[Padraig18]

119. I'm not sure.

I suspect there's a mix.

[59millionmorons]

19. I agree

As a Former Clark supporter I think you should stick to your guy. It's called sticken as Carville say's. But my guy is out and I am now with my second choice, Kerry. Sticking with the horse you road in on is honorable, but refusing to vote for the other guy because your guy doesnt win is childish, unless you have real differences that you cant overcome. Then I suggest Nader.

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. I'm ABB

As a yellow-dog Dem, it would never croos my mind to do otherwise.:)

[littlejoe]

63. Don't call yourself a yellow dog dem. You don't know what it means,

or else you would fall in line for the good of the party.

[Cuban_Liberal]

72. I'll thank you to not presume to attack me or my credentials.

You have NO idea what you're talking about.

[littlejoe]

106. You have absolutely no idea what a yellow dog democrat is.

[Padraig18]

116. How do you know that?

Do you know CL? Have you spoken with epople who do know him? Have you given him a polygraph exam? Your statement is an ad hominem attack on CL.

[Padraig18]

89. Absent personal knowledge about the poster, you assume too much.

I do happen to know him, and he's as yellow-dog as they come.

[littlejoe]

108. It isn't an assumption. His posts speak for themselves.

[littlejoe]

110. I'm STILL waiting for YOUR math, Mr. Cuban Liberal!

[Padraig18]

118. He needn't prove anything, until you have met your burden of proof.

You have not provided a mathematical proof of why it is mathematically impossible for anyone but Kerry to get the nomination.

[Padraig18]

111. Yes, they speak to his beinh an ABB Edwards supporter.

Have you proof otherwise?

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

20. OK. You need to "get behind" Kerry right now

Kerry has won the nomination. Period.

Democrats need to rally behind Kerry, the sooner the better to unseat that SOB Bush.

[Cuban_Liberal]

24. I musta missed the convention.

I was sure there was gonna be one of those, with delegates and votes and balloons and so on...

[BL_Zebub]

32. FUCK John Kerry!

and the fraud he rode in on.

You can come down to Hell and beg me for my vote the day after the convention, in the event he does get nominated. (Hell forbid!)

[littlejoe]

64. Amen, brother.

[zoeyfong]

152. I suppose, if all that said democrats cared about was "us vs. them."

It is amazing how weak or nonexistant the case is as to why anyone should vote *for* kerry; all we hear is that we must vote *against* bush. I hate to be pedantic, but it does actually matter who the opposition candidates are and what will be the short and long term effects of electing them. The ABB scream seems suspiciously like an attempt to divert scrutiny away from kerry's suitability to be president. It is yet another thing that demeans the image of the democratic party and makes it appear only concerned with power and not with principle.

[BL_Zebub]

22. A long long time ago, I was told, by a much bigger man than John Kerry...

..to conform and fall in line. I didn't listen to Him either. :evilgrin:

[Padraig18]

144. LOL!

You're cute, ya know that? :P

[lastknowngood]

23. I will not support Kerry I will vote against Bush but that is all

n/t

[EXE619K]

30. Didn't you get the memo?

A vote against Kerry is a vote for Bush!

[Debi]

45. In the Primary???

I thought we had a choice....Okay, I don't have a choice anymore, but don't you?

[littlejoe]

66. Now you're getting the picture. (I understand your sarcasm)

Understand mine?

[redqueen]

25. Oh yes.

Not a very persuasive tactic, is it?

[Cuban_Liberal]

28. Not at all, redqueen.

If anything, it stiffens my resolve.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cuban_Liberal]

75. Why?

How could that possibly be relevant to anything?

[littlejoe]

112. You have answered my question without answering it. But you

still haven't shown me YOUR math. Why is that? Never mind. I know why.

[littlejoe]

113. I know why. You mustn't let facts get in the way of your predjudices.

[Padraig18]

120. You can't possibly know.

You can assume, however.

[Padraig18]

115. He didn't answer your question.

I happen to know his age. The obvious logical fallacy of your 'mathematical impossibility' argument is this: until such time as Kerry has 2161 delegates, he does not have the nomination. If he dies, or is embroiled in a scandal, etc., his support could drop lower than whale shit.

[w13rd0]

29. Only reason I'd "line up" behind Kerry...

...is so I can plant my foot up his ass.

[emulatorloo]

31. I just ignore such threads

and will do so until he is the nominee.

To tell you the truth I haven't seen too many like that. In ref to GE yes.

I did see them from other candidate's supporters, and I ignored those too.

[Debi]

33. Here Here C_L

Don't tell littlejoe we're over here.....

[Cuban_Liberal]

34. It'll be our secret, Debi.

:P

[Debi]

37. damn...

he found us.

[disenfranchised]

35. Thank you for saying this.

Please let me vote with my heart. If my number one is out before my primary, I'd like to vote for Kucinich (my number 2.) I'll fall in line in time for the general election. But, I need to do it on my own time frame.

I'm also insulted by the e-mail I received telling me to vote for Kerry because he has promised to make Edwards his V.P.

[w13rd0]

41. Apparently the VP slot is going to be a committee....

...or maybe a gene splice, because that's already been promised to Gep and a few others I'm sure...

[Cuban_Liberal]

42. A Democratic 'Borg'?

"Resistance is futile---you will be assimilated.":evilgrin:

[jpgpenn]

49. profound

:freak:

[littlejoe]

74. Ridiculous!

[jpgpenn]

81. LOL

TRUE!:toast:

[littlejoe]

73. That will come after you elect Bush

[Cuban_Liberal]

78. *I* won't be electing Bush.

I will be supporting our nominee--- once the convention decides who that will be.

[Padraig18]

92. How does a vote for the nominee, ONCE WE HAVE ONE, 'elect Bush'

I am frankly disturbed by the thought processes that wish to silence other candidates prior to the convention.

[littlejoe]

114. Again. Do I have to spell it out for you?

[Padraig18]

117. You've not spelled it out yet, as far as I can tell.

Why don't you do so?

[jpgpenn]

145. OOO he sure did!

apparently it went way way over your head!

[Padraig18]

153. There was nothing TO go over my head, friend.

:eyes:

[w13rd0]

150. Interesting that you seem to think that...

..."electing Bush" is a foregone conclusion, and are now just attempting to "paint" those people you'd like to blame, and consequently purge. One who has been observing this entire process might say that your attitude is typical of the DLC types who six months ago decided that the 2004 elections were a "wash", and saw fit to throw the fight to advance their agenda and control. If Bush sees another term, the responsibility will be squarely on YOUR shoulders, and those like you.

ON EDIT: Quit trying to blame everyone else for a loss and failure yet to happen, it's a positively Bush-ian tactic to be so desperate to avoid accountability before the results are even clear.

[West Coast Democrat]

44. I'm not urging anyone to vote for any particular candidate at this point..

I was a Clark supporter myself. I am only hoping that if Kerry is the nominee, and it is a very high probability, that the negativity will end.

I do feel that it's VERY important for us to project positivity about the eventual nominee, because that's the only way we're going to convince fence-sitters to vote Democratic. And that's the only way we're going to kick Bush out of office. Whether or not the nominee is our first choice, and whether or not he is all that we, personally, want the nominee to be--we need to be strong Democratic Front going forward.

[Debi]

46. Nice post

Don't you think that respect should be earned? I'm ABB in the general, but I'm not thrilled with this 'support candidate X or else' mentality.

[West Coast Democrat]

85. "Respect Earned?" you ask.

Well, that's a term I've seen thrown around at DU nowadays, but I don't understand it. I think you just have to get to know the candidate. If you think your issues are not being addressed by him, then you'd better contact his people.

People may want to discuss their concerns at DU, and there's nothing wrong with that, however I hope it's done constructively, and in a positive way. I hope people don't assume that if they complain about something long enough at DU, then somehow Candidate X will find out about their concerns. It doesn't work that way. You can write letters, send email, and make phone calls...but complaining is just complaining.

[jpgpenn]

47. more tired of Edwards being posed as a credible candidate!

lets face it the guy is as much of a lightweight as they come!

[kiahzero]

48. Would you mind providing a link for example?

I haven't seen any of the pre-nomination "unity or else" threads... I've seen threads calling for other candidates to drop out, but not any calling for supporters to defect to a different candidate.

Thanks!

[Cuban_Liberal]

50. Here ya go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=401608&mesg_id=401608

[kiahzero]

53. D'oh

Missed the last line on that one, and hence thought it was more of a rant for Edwards to get out of the race. My bad.

[Cuban_Liberal]

55. No problem.

:hi:

[jpgpenn]

58. Any links detailing Edwards experience?

aside from his supporters links back to his own site?

[Cuban_Liberal]

61. Any reason they should be in this thread?

The initial post has nothing to do with Edwards' 'experience'.

[jpgpenn]

68. yes considering...

you make an attack on Kerry but people have requested information detailing Edwards experience in both Domestic and World Affairs for close to 1 month now. NON of his so called loyal supporters have yet to provide anything except links to Edwards own site with his pumped up message.

If you want to attack the front runner in such an open way the least you can do is contribute to the understanding and worthiness of the candidate you support!

[Cuban_Liberal]

76. I'm not attacking.

I am pointing out how incredibly disrespectful it is to tell me to just drop my support and get in line.

[jpgpenn]

82. so do you have those links for Edwards experience?

[Cuban_Liberal]

83. I'm not going to hijack my own thread.

Have a nice day.

[jpgpenn]

121. I guess that means no, AGAIN!

and you wonder why edwards is thought as a lightweight

[Padraig18]

122. Why would someone knowingly help hijack their own thread?

That's not the subject of this thread.

[jpgpenn]

126. guess that a NO again from you huh?

[Padraig18]

137. It would be the answer I wrote.

It was perfectly clear.

[littlejoe]

77. Thank you for advertising my link.

[w13rd0]

151. wow, that thread is a steaming crock of shit...

...sad to see someone invest so much time in laying blame for a failure yet to occur...and being so damned obvious about it.

[curse10]

62. I've never said line up

I personally don't care what anyone else does. Although I do find it hilariously funny that this sort of rhetoric often comes from Dean supporters- who repeatedly told us Kerry supporters we might as well face it and that Kerry should drop out.

[WI_DEM]

65. me too

The contest hasn't hurt anybody and has made the Democratic party stronger. People should vote their consciences and forget about what the win at any cost people want.

[Larkspur]

70. I'll line up behind Kerry if I can give him a swift kick in his rearend

Other than that I'll vote for him in November, should he be the nominee, but won't do anything else to help him directly. Would love for him to foreclose on that mortgage.

[littlejoe]

79. The one who deserves the biggest kick in the ass is Dean.

[MercutioATC]

146. Yeah, screw Dean for motivating people and bringing REAL issues to the

table. I say we tar and feather the bastard...

[Old and In the Way]

71. I agree.

I think trying to convince Republicans to vote vote Kerry is a waste of time. Either you understand the destruction that this administration has done to the country or you don't.

[BL_Zebub]

91. Republicans have been voting Kerry for weeks

Everywhere there's an open or "same day register" primary or caucus.

Of course that doesn't mean they'll be voting for him in November. They just want a Demoncratic nominee who can't beat Junior.

Good strategy for them. Damn tragedy for the country.

[Cuban_Liberal]

84. Kick for emphasis

:)

[jpgpenn]

124. Oh looky here the man is kicking his own thread!

and he rags on others for doing the same! :freak:

[Padraig18]

128. Not quite true.

He rags on people who kick moldy, old threads that haven't been replied to in over 24 hours. You can verify that by searching the ATA posts.

[jpgpenn]

139. it's nice of you to always voice up for others!

ummm sure that is all it is?:think:

[Padraig18]

141. No, that's not all it is.

He happens to be my s/o, and has been for 2 years. Have a problem with that?

[Cuban_Liberal]

172. GOOD ONE, Paddy!

LOL! :loveya:

[Padraig18]

86. Ze Kerry Reich vill tolerate NO dissent, schweinhund!!

I know how you feel, Tony. :shrug:

[jpgpenn]

123. Great, look at this guy comparing Kerry to Hitler!

Show something that would even consider a remark like that. Must suck supporting a candidate most laugh at.

[Padraig18]

130. Sarcasm.

It's not just for breakfast anymore...

[jpgpenn]

136. don't quit your day job!

[Padraig18]

138. Back at ya. n/t

[KathCO]

147. ABB, ABK, Let's write in Kucinich!!

[Lexingtonian]

154. Oh, I dunno

Your team spent six months dishing out the same kind of thing in a far more abusive way, now it seems you're being pretty bad sports about taking anything -and it is far milder- of the kind yourselves. You may want to look up the term 'mau-mauing', a term derived from the way the Mau-Mau insurrectionists treated journalists and neutral folks during their uprising(s).

I'm very thrilled to see that the North and West Coast, which actually vote Democratic on Election Day, should defer to the South and Midwest to choose our nominee for us. Note also, please, that over half of the 70% you cite as not yet having voted are in the North and on the West Coast. You may want to check your polling numbers so that Tuesday's results don't shock you with a 2:1 or 3:1 (in some places 4:1 or 5:1) Kerry delegate victory.

[Padraig18]

155. 'Your team'?

AFAIK, his only 'team' has been Clark, uncommitted, then Edwards...

[Lexingtonian]

156. yep, that would explain

that avatar-derived Dean photo in the .sig.

[Padraig18]

158. Ummm...

Like many Democrats who aren't Dean supporters, he admires Dr. Dean. How would I know this, you might ask? Because I've lived with him for 2 years, I would answer.

He has never been a Dean supporter, unlike me, who was until Wednesday after the Wisconsin primary.

Hope that clears it up for you. :)

[seaglass]

161. Oh please. n/t

[Padraig18]

162. 'Oh, please' WHAT?

Well?

[Padraig18]

163. *crickets*

[TruthWins]

157. No. Line up. n/t

[bitchkitty]

159. True talking!

The media doesn't decide who I support, and neither does a discussion board. There's no way in hell I vote for Kerry in the primary, and fall in line? I'll do that when it's time to fall in line and not a minute before, and I pray that it won't be behind Botox Boy.

[Padraig18]

160. If Sen. Kerry is the nominee, I'll work my ass off to get him elected.

On his worst day John Kerry is several orders of magnitude more qualified to be POTUS than GWB is on his best day. That said, I resent the hell out of those who imply that I am somehow not a 'good/loyal Democrat' simply because I choose to support someone else for the nomination.

[bitchkitty]

164. I'll vote for him if he's the nominee,

but he can't have my passion, it's just not there. Bush is going to lose this one, I think - but I wonder just what it is that we're going to win.

[Padraig18]

167. I wonder, too.

Still and all, better to be in the driver's seat than in the back seat.

:hi:

[IndianaGreen]

165. The Indiana primary is not until May

I will piss on any call for unity that is made before we Hoosiers have had a chance to cast our ballots.

Ethanol-happy Iowans's votes don't mean shit in Indiana!

[Padraig18]

166. Ours is 3/16.

If Kerry won every single delegate on 3/2 and 3/9 (which won't happen), I don't THINK he would have the 2161 he'd need to sew up the nomination, so my vote is still relevant.

[NicRic]

168. I will back whom ever nominee is !

Untill then ,of course others will try and get you to back their choice ! No need to get angry about this ,you have te right to back whom ever you chose .I just hope ,once the nominee is picked that all Dems get strongly behind this person .Job #1 is bush out in 04 !

[Padraig18]

170. Where the anger comes from:

The anger isn't from the threads which say 'Please back my candidate' or 'My candidate is a great guy because...'; the anger comes from the 'You're helping Bush by not getting in line behind Sen. Kerry', and other posts in a similar vein.

Just thought that should be cleared up.

:hi:

[jpgpenn]

169. BTW, Did you see the debate? Line up behind Kerry!

:toast:

[Padraig18]

171. I'll pass for now, thanks. n/t