Joe Conason certainly disappointed me on this one. (or how some Clintons allies are swiftboatiing

[Mass]

Obama).

I used to have the highest respect in Joe Conason. In the past, he has been a useful voice against the RW smears. This is why I cannot understand how he would lower himself to write this article and in effect swiftboat Obama.

And it really shows how shallow is the support for Hllary in some parts of the Democratic Party. "Be very afraid, he is black and the racists will not vote for him!".
.

The good news is that, despite the fact that he was clearly trying to swiftboat Obama himself, he could find nothing except to tell us that we did not already know, that the racists will not vote for Obama.

And his reason to support Hillary by itself is really weak. We already know what they are going to throw at her. Well, if Obama wins, we can be sure we will already know everything as the Clinton's allies will have done the job for the RW. So, no real difference, sir.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/the_coming_attack_on_barack.html

The unscrupulous right wing will do exactly the same thing to Hillary Clinton if she wins the nomination -- except that those smears will have to be reruns.

[flpoljunkie]

1. Joe shows himself to be in the tank for the Clintons here. "Reruns?" Oldies, but goodies to the R's!

[formernaderite]

8. that cartoon says it all

my fears encapsulated...although I'm personally an Edwards supporter, i'd be okay with seeing Obama get the nomination. I am not naieve...I know hillary can't win the general.

[SaveElmer]

15. As Republicans have a field day with Obama's "vast" resume...

[ShortnFiery]

2. Yep, the D.C. Establishment, DLC cronies and all their whores in journalism are in FULL-Court Press.

:crazy:

But JOE, the same old tactics are transparent given that "the establishment" democrats have done nothing to shatter BushBot's RNC oriented policies. :shrug:

They want us to "get in line" and proceed to party like it's 1995.

IMO, how fucking LAME and SHAMELESS can they be? ... Oops! We've just unearthed another rock layer of filth. :thumbsdown:

[niceypoo]

3. I am curious what exactly this 'swiftboat' entails

or is it the product of an overly active imagination?

[Mass]

4. I am using Bill's Clinton definition of it: every statement that would make my candidate less likely

to win. Or does it only apply to when you criticize Hillary? :shrug:

[depakid]

5. Looks spot on to me

Anyone who doesn't think that the far right will behave almost exactly the way he's describing would have to be as naive as Obama often seems to be.

And as far as Hillary goes, I didn't see anything like an endorsement there- Conason simple made an accurate observation. Their attacks have pretty much all been heard before- hell, they've been demonizing her for 15 years, which is why she has the highest negatives of any of the current candidates.

[Sparkly]

6. This was NOT swiftboating.

This was pointing to smears already gathering on the right.

He's right that they'll swiftboat any of our nominees, and he's right that we already know what they say about Clinton because they've been saying it for decades already. He's certainly not saying any of it is fair or accurate.

[KittyWampus]

24. Yes, DU'uers have already posted stuff written about Obama's church and its pastor

[paulk]

7. I don't get it

Conason points out exactly what the right wing will do - and you blame him for swiftboating Obama?

It's gotten so that no one can make any kind of objective analysis of this campaign without being personally attacked by Obama supporters.

[sandnsea]

10. It's the only way they can win SC

By scaring African Americans into not believing a black man can win the Presidency. That's why this is coming out now.

JK's endorsement means something. The Clintons really play as dirty as Rove does, they just do.

[Cameron27]

11. Oh for godssakes,

what might hurt Obama is Pat Fitzgerald's indictment of Rezko today. If you don't think the RW will play that up, you're kidding yourself.

[sandnsea]

12. And not Hsu's prison sentence??

Notice that didn't get any media play?

The Clintons have so much corruption in their administration and associates it isn't even funny. Rezko isn't going to help, but it is absolutely nothing compared to the Clintons. Wake Up.

[Cameron27]

14. No, the property deal

has already been aired on ABC. I'm not asleep about what will be thrown at the Clintons, but you don't want to admit that the RWers will try to damage Obama as much or more.

[sandnsea]

16. Yes I know, happened during the Clinton years

right? Using Clinton programs and funding, right?

Hsu was just sentenced to three years on Jan 4. You don't think that would have hurt Hillary if that had been drawn out? He was THEIR fundraiser. And just one of a long long list. That isn't having fabricated garbage thrown at the Clintons, that's evidence of a history of corruption. They are not nice people and I will say that until the day I die.

Rezco is not a nice guy. That is one against Obama. No comparison to the Clintons.

[Cameron27]

19. Rezko's wife

bought the side yard of Obama's property. Whether it's above board or not, and whether you like or not, the RWers will use it against St. Obama.

[sandnsea]

22. Yes I know, if ONE thing concerns you

You better bail on Hillary becaue this is nothing compared to the mountains of corruption surrounding them.

[Cameron27]

28. You know what bothers me?

The fact that every single thing either Clinton's done has been dissected under a microscope and cast in a sinister light, I know what to expect from the opposition, and I know how they'll fight against them. On the other hand, Obama hasn't faced anything yet, nothing, so I don't know what to expect or how he'll fight.

[sandnsea]

37. Sit in the cesspool because you know how it smells?

Yeah, you know they'll fight dirty because that's what they're doing right now. And yet when it's pointed out, you deny it and call it sexism.

Obama hasn't faced anything? You're forgetting Chicago politics??

If he can't defeat the Clinton slime machine, he can defeat anything.

[Cameron27]

39. You need to change the filter that's stuck in your brain,

the one that filters out everything but anti-Clinton hate and smears. I've never seen you have a good thing to say about either of them, not even once, and yet you've never admitted to even the tiniest failings that Obama or even John Kerry might have. Life and people aren't that simple, and politicians are even harder to know.

[sandnsea]

41. My god, I think they are corrupt corporatist slime

That's who they are. I don't have to say anything nice about them.

Yes Obama has faults, he got mixed up with Rezko and that's one. John Kerry doesn't have many, he should have trusted his gut on the IWR, that's for sure.

How you can just ignore the piles of evidence against the true character of the Clintons shows me you don't even have a filter.

[Cameron27]

45. I'll leave to choke on your hate

I'm done.

[sandnsea]

48. They need to be hated, they really do n/t

[NewJeffCT]

25. Hsu's been in the news for months now

His connections to the Clintons were in every major newspaper multiple times and he came up on many of the nightly news shows as well.

However, the problems with hand-picked people that work for Romney, McCain and Giuliani got no coverage whatsoever outside of the blogosphere.

[sandnsea]

27. Hsu was sentenced this past Friday

You don't think that would have been embarrassing?

Yeah I know Republicans never get exposed. That's not really relevant to the person I'm responding to who thinks ONE incident of Obama's is more important than probably 50 with the Clintons.

[NewJeffCT]

31. It was in my local newspaper

Hsu being sentenced... I'm sure it was picked up from either the Washington Post or AP.

I hadn't heard a damn thing on Reczko until I saw this thread. Never even heard the name.

[sandnsea]

35. I've heard it before, many times

And the newspaper is not the same thing as cable news. There are a bunch of these fundraisers who have been in hot water. If they were covered, the Clintons would be gone.

[NewJeffCT]

40. Unless it's the death penalty

a sentencing is going to get less coverage than things like arrests, indictments & convictions.

Again, when it was revealed that Hsu was a wanted criminal, it got a ton of coverage in all of the media, including cable news and network news.

[sandnsea]

43. Libby got the death penalty?

Gosh I missed that.

Yeah, Hsu was a huge story and then just disappeared. Hmmm.

Bill gets himself all over the news any time he wants for his wife or to wag his finger at Fox news - yet he was against the war from the start and couldn't get one outlet to put him on saying so.

:eyes:

[NewJeffCT]

44. Libby was a high ranking public official

And the first sitting White House official to be indicted the days of US Grant.

Nobody had heard of Norman Hsu.

[sandnsea]

47. Hillary has White House experience

Hsu is one of a long line of fundraising scandals.

[Cameron27]

30. I expected that,

didn't you?

[NewJeffCT]

32. expected what?

no coverage of the problems related to Giuliani, Romney & McCain campaign people?

Or that Hsu was in the news for weeks?

[Cameron27]

33. Both

You said yourself, that you had no idea of this Rezko real estate deal. I'll say it again, ABC's already aired a story linking Obama to his indictment, whether he deserves to be linked to them or not, so whatever else anyone thinks, the RWers will have plenty to throw at anyone we nominate.

[1corona4u]

20. Yep.

That's it in a nutshell. And I think Conason's right.

[sandnsea]

9. That's the only way they can win SC

Maybe that's why JK endorsed now.

[Bread and Circus]

13. I've never known Joe Conason to be wrong. I've read his

books and chatted with him in email. He was a very nice guy in the emails.

[sandnsea]

17. It's not whether he's wrong

It's why it's being peddled now. I think he's a nice guy too, but he is a Clinton friend and it's important to know that when you read this stuff.

[Cameron27]

21. Yes he's a friend of the Clinton's

he documented the RW smears that were used against them, sent an innocent woman to prison and ended up costing millions of dollars for a corrupt investigation that went nowhere. It is INDEED important to know that when you read what Joe Conason writes.

[Bread and Circus]

23. I support Obama and I've researched TUCC and Wright...

If Obama wins the nomination it will be an issue and it will have to be dealt with. Trust me on this. I'm not saying TUCC and Wright are bad but they will easily be made to SEEM bad and Obama will be tarred with it. Obama is a transendant and unifying figure, however his "spiritual adviser" (actually imo anyone with a spiritual adviser gives me pause but that's my own issue) is not.

Conason is doing the Obama team a favor with his words and his advice.

[sandnsea]

26. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions

I don't see how this is friendly help to Obama. You're obviously free to see it differently.

[Bread and Circus]

34. Ok, so let's talk about this a bit....

The reason why this is a favor to Obama is that it is better to deal with it now than deal with it later.

That's the lesson Kerry learned.

[sandnsea]

38. It doesn't matter

Kerry dealt with Vietnam and Skull and Bones smears in the primary. He dealt with them early in his campaign. That didn't change anything when the media started running with the swift boat attacks in August. Did you miss the announcements that the Clintons were going to go dirty? They said they were going to use a 527. Looks like they decided to see if the media could do the job instead. Sound familiar?

[NewJeffCT]

42. Once the actual swift-boat ads came out, Kerry did not respond

personally for nearly a month. He finally came out weeks later and called them on it, when he should have challenged Pickens like he did a few months ago, only within 24 hours. After Kerry called them on it, they finally faded, but the damage had been done.

Last summer, Kerry finally came out and offered to take Pickens up on the claims of the Swift Boaters and would give the $1 million to charity. He should have done that in 2004.

[sandnsea]

46. They responded immediately

They had a host of military generals lined up. Max Cleland went to Bush's ranch. There were responses from his crew mates who hadn't spoken in years. There was a huge response. That had always been more than enough in the past, the media had always carried the response. They didn't in August. Kerry personally addressed it in 2 weeks.

There were responses from everybody except the person who is supposed to be the attack dog. John Edwards.

[NewJeffCT]

51. I'll agree on part of that

No response from Edwards. Unfortunately, I didn't really hear much from him after Kerry nominated him as VP.

But, when I watched the cable news after the Swift Boat ads ran, I didn't see generals - I saw the Bob Shrums and Donna Braziles of the world. There was a poll that was run not long after the ads came out that had Kerry at nearly 60% support among veterans before the ads, but it dropped to 35% after the ad's initial run. It was Willie Horton all over again.

[sandnsea]

52. The media didn't show it

:shrug:

[Bread and Circus]

50. I don't see that as talking about the issue....

can you please address the TUCC and Wright issue.

And if it's not, please explain why.

<<< look at my avatar. lookup my posts of the past few weeks. Obama's my guy. I've given money to him several times.

[sandnsea]

53. I'm responding to a post

who thinks an early attack at Kerry would have helped. He was attacked, all through the primaries. This stuff doesn't help. When garbage comes out like this, it's primary politics, not friendly advise.

[NewJeffCT]

29. Giuliani's spiritual advisor has major problems, too

I forget the guy's name...

I agree that Conason is not knocking Obama - just saying what they will smear him over.

[SaveElmer]

18. Spot on again...as usual!!!...nt

[robbedvoter]

36. I didn't see this as an attack piece. He wrote whole books on how Clinton was attacked

I didn't see him legitimizing any of this, I didn't think any less of Obama or Conason after reading it.
When I was supporting a candidate I used to collect the negative, outlandish articles - to prepare responses.

Kinda what The Daily Howler did for Gore.

[oasis]

49. Conason brings up some valid points. My respect for him has never wavered.(eom)