I Didn't See Hillary Supporters Screaming Fraud In Iowa. Seems That Obamanuts Are The Whiners

[fightindonkey]

[NYCGirl]

1. How do you fix a caucus? NT

[Debi]

4. That's a very personal question

:blush:

[Rockholm]

62. Cash, baby, Cash.

[Debi]

64. People were paid to caucus?

x( shit, how did this get past me?

[Rockholm]

65. Just making shit up like everyone else here.

Sad isn't it?

[Debi]

68. Makes me feel better knowing that I didn't miss out

My caucus actually cost me $$ since I helped provide food/drinks for folks.

If I thought a candidate was gonna foot the bill I would have presented them with an invoice! :7

[IA_Seth]

71. Mine did too...

Where do I get reimbursed for signs, markers, notepad, calculator, etc? I'll even through in all the labor of moving tables and chairs for free!

[Debi]

79. You should get fined since your candidate's supporters almost killed

youthere! :wow:

I was hoping another Iowan would show up :hi:

Tell me, how many out of state Iowa college students arrived via bus at your caucus (and how much did you get paid for the evening?)

:banghead:

On edit:

Mr. Debi made fun of me when I purchased 6 dozen cookies and extra coffee/cider/hot cocoa and a case of water. Guess how much food/drinks came home w/me? 6 packages of cocoa and 1 package of cider. x( (and supporters all brought food/drinks too - heck the Dodd guy brought a cake! All gone)

Send the bill to the IDP?

[Rockholm]

93. Caucuses sould like fun. Really.

[Debi]

98. Well, I don't think the food poisoning was any fun...

but the rest of it is :thumbsup: at least all the caucuses I've attended.

[Rockholm]

104. Ixnay on the food poisoning.

[maddiejoan]

6. Hmmmmmmm

[NYCGirl]

10. Now you sound like bittywitty.

:eyes:

You don't really want to go there.

[1corona4u]

13. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hahahahahhahahahaha

Touché!

[tridim]

15. Classic 1950 styling!

:rofl:

That bus is going to Chicago anyway.

[1corona4u]

16. Ironic, isn't it?

;-)

[maddiejoan]

30. I was going for style over substance

in honor of Obama. ;)

*edited to add a wink*

[tridim]

38. Your Amélie avatar makes me melt..

So I'll just babble the words.. rubber, glue, sticks to you. :)

Anyway, I'm trying to stay above the fray as an Edwards supporter.

[maddiejoan]

40. forgot the wink

so I added one on edit ;)

[Debi]

51. To every single precinct in every single county in Iowa? n/t

[maddiejoan]

52. some people have no sense of humor.

[Debi]

54. Oh, you were making a funny

by saying that somebody cheated in the Iowa Caucuses.

Silly me. :rofl:

[KennedyGuy]

11. Umm..you bring in thousands of out of state college kids

who go to college in Iowa, even though college is out..register them to vote..and whammo..instant fix.
That also explains the over-inflated youth vote from Iowa, that didn't materialize in NH.

[NYCGirl]

12. You are aware that it is legal, aren't you? And just how many buses did it take

to make that lead?

[KennedyGuy]

14. it explains the over-inflated youth/college vote in Iowa

did't say it was illegal..

[NYCGirl]

17. Well, then you didn't answer my question. NT

[CoffeeCat]

29. It doesn't explain anything...b/c it never happened (nt)

[KennedyGuy]

34. I can't teach you to read..

use "the google" and inform yourself

[CoffeeCat]

36. You don't know what you're talking about...

I was there. I've been in my state and at post-caucus meetings
with precinct captains.

What you are suggesting never happened.

Yes, college students were encouraged to caucus where they live
and return for the caucuses. We're talking about residents of
Iowa who are registered to vote in Iowa.

In fact, I know a University of Iowa college student who lives
in my suburb. She was registered to vote in Iowa City and she
couldn't caucus, because she was away from Iowa City and didn't
make the 2 hour trip for the caucus.

How many college students didn't show up because they couldn't make
it back to their college towns, while they were on break?

More than were bussed in, I can say that for a fact.

Stop spreading your lies. Do you believe everything you read on the
Internet? Spend less time propagandizing and "Googling" and more time
living in the land of reality, k?

[KennedyGuy]

44. I'm sorry..did you say something?

[CoffeeCat]

59. You can't hear truth, I understand...

You'd rather "Google" and find stories on listentothiscrap.com
and spread it as truth all over DU.

You have fun with that.

However, I'll be here--combating your lies and dirty tricks
with the truth.

Sorry if that offends you, bucko.

[Debi]

63. poster doesn't understand that Yepsen writes whatever it takes to

get his ass back on C-SPAN or CNN :eyes: Factually incorrect or not.

Wonder what he'll do now?

[CoffeeCat]

73. To suggest that Obama bussed in students...

...based on a newspaper article that was based on RUMORS--before
the caucus happened---is quite humorous.

I'm still waiting for proof from the rumormonger.

I want to see or hear ONE PERSON from Iowa--say that they
know that Illinois students were bussed into Iowa, and those
students were then unloaded into Iowa caucus sites.

One witness. That's all I need.

We had thousands of reporters in Iowa during the caucuses.

You would think that one of them would have a picture of this, or
a story written about this?

And where's Yepsen? He was all over this, BEFORE it happened.

I'm sure if it did happen, he'd be more than happy to validate
his shoddy reporting--by demonstrating that he was right.

I'm still waiting for any scintilla of evidence---even a story
written AFTER the caucuses that said that Illinois students
were bussed into Iowa!

Anything!

[Debi]

76. I called the local Obama office when this flap began

and they had no plans to rent busses - only were going to make arrangements if people asked.

As far as I know nobody asked, instead students themselves car pooled or came back early and stayed w/friends.

Now, I'll wait with you..for that ONE story. Waiting.....


waiting....


waiting...

[CoffeeCat]

83. While we wait for PROOF...

...would you like a cup of coffee and a comfy chair?

I have a feeling we're going to be here for a while.

Waiting...

More waiting...

Sipping...

Twiddling thumbs....

Anticipating....

Waiting for proof...

Any evidence...

Anything....

[Debi]

86. I have cookies

:P

[CoffeeCat]

89. I'll make a triple layer, homemade tiramisu...

Sorry if I'm being cranky.

The OP is right...you are much more diplomatic than I am.

I just can't stand these outrageous lies.

[Debi]

99. I'm diplomatic today....

The first few days after the caucuses I wasn't so smooth-tempered.

People who praised the process and the state of Iowa (and Iowans)all fall were all screaming 'we was robbed' after their candidate didn't prevail (and their candidate was MY candidate x()


That pissed me off. I'm still betting that if their candidate had come in third or better Iowans would be getting thank you letters and cards. :shrug:

[CoffeeCat]

35. No bussed-in college students. This is a lie..

You make a good point...just how many busses full of college students
would it take to affect nearly 2,000 Iowa caucus sites????

230,000 Iowans caucused this year. Double from last year.

All demographics increased. Turnout was over the top in nearly
every precinct, and it wasn't due to "bussed-in college students."

Many young people voted for Obama. However, this whole "bussed in"
rumor has been perpetuated by very irresponsible people who have
no proof of what they are saying.

It's lies, and it never happened.

Obama, other candidates and the Dem apparatus in Iowa encouraged Iowa
college students to return to their college towns to caucus. They
were all ready residents of these towns. Most of them were all ready
registered to vote. There was no "busing in" that happened. These
students were just encouraged to vote where they lived and where they
were registered. It's so benign it's laughable.

It's about as plausible as saying that just because we encourage people in
nursing homes to vote, that the entire vote was determined by nursing-home
residents. It's very bizarre.

Turnout doubled. It doubled because every demographic came out in droves.

These liars need to give it up.

[KennedyGuy]

49. some rather inconvienient facts..warning contains big words

December 11, 2007


Yepsen: Parties, candidates must make sure caucuses are clean

David Yepsen

Maybe we should call these the Illinois caucuses.

Officials and campaigners in both parties are worried that zealous out-of-state staffers and non-Iowa supporters of candidates may try to vote in the caucuses, thereby skewing the results.

On the Republican side, GOP officials are watching precincts in Council Bluffs and Davenport to make certain people aren't driving across the state line to participate. They are particularly concerned about Ron Paul's over-caffeinated backers.

On the Democratic side, Barack Obama's campaign is telling Iowa college students they can caucus for him even if they aren't from Iowa. Five of the six Democratic presidential campaigns have said they don't want their out-of-town staffers caucusing in Iowa, even though some of these staffers have already registered to vote here.

Party officials say it is easy to register as an Iowa voter and participate at a caucus. That openness may lead to fraud. While Republicans say they will ask people who want to register at the caucus to produce some sort of identification, even those questionable registrants will be allowed to cast ballots on caucus night. On the Democratic side, officials say no identification is required to register and vote in their caucuses.

Obama's campaign is telling Iowa college students they can caucus for him even if they aren't from Iowa. His campaign offers that advice in a brochure being distributed on college campuses in the state. A spokesman said 50,000 of the fliers are being distributed. It says: "If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus and caucus in your college neighborhood."

Given that many students in Iowa's colleges and universities are from Obama's neighboring home state of Illinois, the effort could net him lots of additional votes on caucus night. It's all quite legal, and other campaigns are signing up nonresident Iowa college students, too. But Obama's effort is unprecedented. No presidential campaign in memory has ever made such a large, open attempt to encourage students from another state to participate in Iowa's caucuses.

(But, then, they do elections a little differently in Illinois than we do in Iowa. At least you can't vote a dead person in an Iowa caucus.)

The issue of out-of-staters came up recently when Chris Dodd urged his rivals to promise that their staffers working in Iowa wouldn't register as voters here so they could participate in the caucuses. Bill Richardson didn't agree because he didn't want to disenfranchise staffers who are long-time residents. While the Associated Press reports he's asking New Mexico political appointees help him in Iowa, he says they won't caucus for him.

It's one thing for Obama to turn out non-Iowans to party dinners, eastern Iowa rallies, Oprah Winfrey visits or door-knocking. It would be something else to have them actually vote, something the campaign emphatically says it isn't encouraging. But Larry Rasky, a spokesman for Joe Biden's campaign, said last week: "Obama has paid no more than lip service to the timely call by the Dodd campaign for all the candidates to pledge to keep their out-of-state supporters on the sidelines."

However, both laws and practical considerations are in place to help ensure the integrity of the Iowa caucuses:

- Falsely registering to vote is fraud in Iowa. Someone from Illinois who thinks voter fraud is a way of life in that state will find a much different attitude from Iowa prosecutors.

- It would take hundreds of people in the right precincts to make a difference in the outcome. Any plan that brings thousands of people into Iowa to vote would be so visible everyone would see it, and it would backfire on the candidate who is supposed to benefit. It's also called conspiracy, another crime.

- There is a law of diminishing returns on the Democratic side. After a candidate has won all the delegates from a college precinct, adding more caucus-goers to it does nothing to improve that candidate's score.

- These are neighborhood meetings. In most caucuses, people know one another.

- Credibility. It's not going to do Obama or Paul any good to have a showing in Iowa that is tainted. Obama has worked hard in Iowa. He has built an impressive organization and can win this on the legit. He doesn't need to give opposition spinners a way to discredit a victory.

The bottom line here is that on caucus night, Iowans in both parties should work hard to conduct caucuses that are above reproach.

If Iowa can't get this right, then Iowa shouldn't get this sort of influence.

DAVID YEPSEN can be reached at [e-mail] or [phone].

[Debi]

55. That article was written on December 11, 2007

Is there an article written after January 3, 2008 that shows fraud occurred in the Iowa Caucuses?

[KennedyGuy]

58. nobody said it was fraud..

all politicians do whatever it takes to..er..manipulate the vote (and I don't mean that negativly)
but for that other moron to keep stamping his feet and scream that the out of staters were not a factor in Iowa is ridiculous.

[Debi]

61. What do you account for all the precincts in Iowa that did not have a college

or university in them - where Obama also won?

Students could only caucus where they reside - which means in the precincts where their dorms or apartments are. So, what reason is there for all the other precincts where no out of state Iowa college students live and Obama still prevailed?

And since only about 21,000 young people live out of state and go to college in Iowa...what of the other 218,000 people that caucused on the 3rd?

[CoffeeCat]

67. Oh, but you stamping your feet...

...and presenting as fact, that busses full of Illinois residents, streamed
into Iowa and unloaded onto Iowa caucus precincts is....what? Responsible?

This never happened.

Put up or shut up. Show everyone here evidence that this happened.

You can't, because it never did.

So far, all you've done is linked to a Des Moines Register article that suggested
this might happen. Yepsen is a Hillary supporter by the way. I notice
that Yepsen has no follow-up article demonstrating that Illinois students
were bussed into Iowa. Gee. Probably because no such activity happened.

There are nearly 2,000 Iowa caucus sites in Iowa. Caucus participation
doubled in every precinct. Are you actually suggesting that there were
enough bussed in college students to affect the result?

Remember 230,00 Iowa Democrats caucused.

[KennedyGuy]

69. oh stop read the above post where I documented it

I know its hard..
the above would be the post a little higher up on the thread..
quitcherbitchin

[Debi]

72. Please, an article AFTER the caucuses that documents where

the busing of college students took place, rather than an opinion piece by an over-stuffed political reporter looking to grab some national air-time.

You are so dead set that it happened, there must be one article you can post that proves out of state Iowa college students were bussed in to caucus.

[KennedyGuy]

74. Sigh..lets just agree that we see this different

I have no desire to get in an argument with you...

[Debi]

78. I don't want to argue either

but you have stated that one candidate's campaign bussed in college students and THAT manipulated the outcome of the Iowa Caucuses. (even if the campaign did so, we do agree that it wouldn't have been illegal or wrong).

If a candidate's campaign didn't actually do that, then your statement isn't accurate.

I'm only asking for you to provide actual proof that what you say happened did happen.

Otherwise I'm asking you nicely (and I have been nice and polite with you) to consider changing your statement.

[CoffeeCat]

92. So, when someone asks you to document...

your unsubstantiated rumors, you back off and say, "Look, I don't want to argue."

No one is asking you to argue.

You came here stating as FACT that Obama bussed in Illinois college students
to participate in the Iowa caucuses.

We're just asking for proof or any article, or any bit of evidence that
this happened.

NO one in Iowa is suggesting that this happened. Because it didn't.

I don't think asking you to substantiate this, is being combative
or irrational.

[CoffeeCat]

81. You documented NOTHING. Stop lying...

You posted only a Des Moines Register article that talked
about rumors.

This article was published in early December, that's BEFORE
the Iowa caucuses happened.

Again, put up or shut up.

Show me ONE SCINTILLA of evidence that Illinois college students
were bussed into Iowa precincts and unloaded into these precincts.

Show me anything printed, published or documented the night of the
caucuses or after.

Waiting........

[KennedyGuy]

82. sparkle..meet ignore button

ask Debbi how to debate like a person instead of an ass.

[Debi]

87. Don't tell the Biden folks that

x(

[CoffeeCat]

88. There you have it folks!!! NO PROOF.

KennedyGuy came here, suggesting AS FACT, the Obama bussed in Illinois
college students to Iowa, who then caucused and unfairly affected the
outcome.

He offers no proof whatsoever, that this ever happened.

NADA.

Hey, I don't like it when people lie and rumor monger. I'll call
you on the carpet for your lies, and make no apologies.

You may not like my "debate style" but I like your lies and your
bullshit rumormongering even less.

You're off my Christmas card list!

[KennedyGuy]

90. somebody call for the waaaaaaambulance

sparky has fizzled out..;( ;(

[CoffeeCat]

94. Sparky is waiting for any evidence of your lies...

..but I see you have none.

This is going on your permanent DU record, you know.

I'm not fizzing out.

I'm waiting for your proof.

Again, waiting....

[KennedyGuy]

96. Can't teach ya to read honey..

[CoffeeCat]

102. Nice, try--sweet, honey pumpkin muffin...

...but you offered no proof that Obama bussed in suppporters
from Illinois.

What do you think you've offered up as proof?

Surely not the Yepsen article, which was written before the caucus.

Waiting...

(cue elevator muzak)

[Debi]

105. DU rules

"Do not say that you are hitting the alert link to report another member. You are permitted to tell someone that you are adding them to your ignore list, provided that you actually do so."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

By your continued interaction it looks like you forgot to hit the 'Ignore' button after all.

[CoffeeCat]

19. That's total bullshit...

I'm in Iowa, and THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

There was no "fix" as you suggest, and you are irresponsible for saying so.

Do you realize what happened in Iowa? Dem voter turnout increased by 100 percent.
Last caucus (2004) 120,000 Dems voted. This time, nearly 230,000 caucused.

Are you actually suggesting that a large contingent of those new 110,000 voters
were bussed in from out of state? Ohhhh...funny how the media cameras and everyone
else here in the state missed that caravan!

Do you know how many busses full of out-of-state college students it would have taken
to affect the Iowa outcome? There would have been busses at each precinct, affecting
nearly 2,000 individual caucus sites across the state. That didn't happen.

Obama won in ever precinct in my suburb, which is mainly young families with school-aged
children. No busses anywhere. Hardly any college students.

If anything is true, it's that Obama won Iowa with FEWER college student votes, because
most of them were home, and not in their college towns, during caucus night!

Sorry no. You're perpetuating disinformation that's completely laughable.

In every precinct in Iowa, turnout doubled. That wasn't due to college students, it was
due to every, single age group increasing in numbers.

I hate it when people disseminate lies.

[Debi]

70. I had three college students at my precinct

Of course one of them was my son..so he lives in Iowa, and one of them actually attends school in Iowa City but was home on break...so he lives in Iowa...and the third attends UNI right here in Cedar Falls and brought her parents for their first caucus...also lives in Iowa (and for the record only one of them caucused for Obama...).

[CoffeeCat]

80. People caucus with their neighbors...

...and people they know!

Like, a bus load of unknown, out-of-state college students could fly
under the radar!

It's so ridiculous it defies logic.

I was a precinct captain. Out of the 92 people who stood for Obama,
MAYBE 5 were college students. I talked with all of them. I crossed
them off of our lists, and took note of their addresses. Golly gee, they
were from Iowa! And I knew their parents! And we talked about local
construction and the basketball team. You caucus with people you know
in your neighborhood. If a bus load of out-of-state students would have
infiltrated a caucus, they would stick out like sore thumbs!

Barack Obama won the Iowa caucuses because 230,000 Iowans came out to
caucus that night. Caucus participation increased by 100 percent
across the board, in all demographics.

In the vast majority of Iowa precincts, turnout DOUBLED. You can't
increase turnout 100 percent---more than 100,000 people---with
bussed in students without at least article being written about it.

What the OP is suggesting is not possible.

[Debi]

85. I know

The people that caucused in my precinct (the 40 new voters) were people who weren't politically involved before. And the fact that 526,000 folks voted in New Hampshire (both rep and dem) which broke 1992's record of 396,000 means there is a revolution taking place here. People are wanting to get involved and wanting to affect change (even by the simple act of voting or caucusing). We should be rejoicing rather than bitching and moaning. x(

[creeksneakers2]

107. The point is not that Obama bussed

The point is that if Hillary won Obama and especially Edwards supporters would have said she bussed people in.

The Obama and Edwards folks are cooking up stories of election fraud now without a preponderance of evidence or any rational explanation of how it could possibly be done.

[sunonmars]

21. Not to mention

Having other candidates in the caucus tell his supporters to put another specific candidate second and vice versa so as to deliberately screw results. That I don't like.

The jockeying for second votes was a full on battle royal. Why can't these caucus people just have a straight vote like anyone else.

Also not using raw vote totals as the end result only a mish mash of % is bad.

[NYCGirl]

22. Did you have a problem in 04 when Kucinich gave his votes to Edwards? NT

[CoffeeCat]

27. Dennis Kucinich was the only candidate...

...who did that.

And guess what...hardly anyone in Iowa caucused for Kucinich.

It was a non issue.

Guess how many people showed up and caucused for Kucinich in my precinct? NONE.

Across the board, I heard from Iowa precincts that Kucinich had no supporters.

What's it like making a mountain out of a grain of sand?

And also...when caucus goers select the candidate for whom they want to caucus, if
the candidate isn't viable--that caucus goer is free to leave. I did then when
I caucused for Dean in 04. No one forces someone to caucus for a candidate. People
have a choice. This process give people the freedom to take a second look and decide
whether or not they want to support a viable candidate. Nothing more. Nothing less.

We don't cast spells or boil goat's blood at the Iowa caucuses. You don't need
to make democracy sound so sinister!

[Debi]

56. A Caucus is not a Primary

It is the preference of the electorate as a whole.

It's not a 'vote' it is the consensus of the individuals in each of the 1,781 precincts across Iowa.

It is a group decision, not a one-person-one-vote.

Why should it be any different?

[Debi]

53. Did Obama every actually bus students in?

Last I heard from the campaign nothing every materialized from those flyers.

(Many students car pooled to go back to Iowa to caucus - but no busses from Obama Campagin)

Maybe you have better information than I do on that?

[LostinVA]

75. Vote buying is as old as voting

I don't think Iowa was "rigged," but of course it's possible.

[Debi]

100. POSSIBLE --- ARRggguguunHHHHH

:banghead:

And an old guy marrying some girl young enough to be his daughter is possible - but how often does THAT happen??? :shrug:

[creeksneakers2]

106. If Clinton had won

The Obama people and especially the Edwards people would have said she bussed people in.

[rateyes]

2. How does one rig a signature in a caucus state?

Apples and Oranges.

[DivorcingNeo]

3. Step away from the wacky tabaccky

You are losing brain cells, rapidly.

[William769]

5. The majority of Obama supporters have been very gracious.

A few have been well Their posts speaks for themselves.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. There is no such thing as an Obamanut. I have no idea what that is.

[City Lights]

8. Are you posting with your eyes closed?

Or are you only seeing what you want to see?

[stray cat]

9. As a first time senator Obama is in control of the whole government

and brainwashes people to stand up and caucas for him.

[Occam Bandage]

18. The overwhelming majority of us have been gracious, and most of the fraud whiners

aren't Obama supporters, but rather are anti-Clinton or simply paranoid.

[Imagevision]

20. No-No-No, some are simply saying that elections should be 'verifiable' got it, be able to back it up

[LostinVA]

77. That's not what most are saying -- only a very few are

Most are using electoral reform to slam HRC's win.

[ORDagnabbit]

23. I think Iowa had problems too. why is it so hard to do a hand recount. what are people afraid of?

[William769]

25. Don't you mean head recount?

[Debi]

57. Because it's not a vote

So there is nothing to recount.

[Catherine Vincent]

24. Obamanuts!

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

31. name-calling is always amusing to some ...

Kudos to you for cheering on the name-calling here at DU.
We definitely need a more fractious environment.

:sarcasm:

[Catherine Vincent]

41. You can only laugh.

After being called a Hillbot, Hillaryworld, Clintonista, HillShill, Hildabeast etc etc., you can't get mad, you just laugh.

[Blue-Jay]

43. Good for the goose, good for the gander, right?

Nice to see you're rising above it all. :thumbsup:

[Catherine Vincent]

48. Thanks!

[Imagevision]

26. If November is a close race? Bush will instruct the surpreme court to stop the counting again

[AtomicKitten]

28. Whining about whining ...

[NYCGirl]

32. Isn't that "whining squared"?

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

33. I think there's only one place to go from here ....

full-tilt sniveling

hang on to your hat ;)

[NYCGirl]

37. Oh, oh....here it comes!

LOL!

And, BTW, I had no problem proudly wearing the label of "Deaniac" so if someone wants to call me an "Obamanut", I guess I can own that too.

[madrchsod]

39. at least no one is doing this

we have come a long way but there is many more miles to go...

[Blue-Jay]

42. Seems that YOU are a douchebag.

Note: most Clinton supporters do not call people names and are not douchebags. You are, however, and it has nothing to do with the candidate you support. It's just you.

[HughMoran]

103. Kinda over the line there no?

wow!

[Bitwit1234]

45. Most were upset at the stupid rule to let people be bussed in and

registered and vote two hours before the caucus. No way to really check anybody. But we can't make Iowa change their rule. Altho it is stupid. And I don't think a show of hands is a good way to count your vote, there's no record. Like the machines that don't have a paper trail. Just suppose there is ever a dead heat. How can you count the votes.

[Debi]

60. I can find no record of people being bussed in

but I'd love a link to the story that says they were.

What is wrong with Iowa's voting laws? Why should being able to register to vote and participate in the political process be difficult?

As for the show of hands and recount comments in your post - Iowa is not a primary. It is the consensus of those participating in each of the precincts in the state. It is the preference of the electorate as a whole, not one-person-one-vote. That is why there are no ballots and no voting machines.

[Indie Girl]

95. This voter claims fraud in Iowa

I'm just reporting. No opinion.

What Really Happened in Iowa

In Iowa, we saw Obama operate Chicago machine politics at its worst. For each claim here, I've got at least two witnesses:

We saw (1) vanloads of out-of-staters and under-aged voters dispatched to whichever precinct was "short" on Obama supporters (using a complex headset system worn by political "observers" working for Obama, as reported to me by friends at numerous caucuses around Des Moines).

(2) Obama surrogates participated rather than observing. Former Mississippi governor Ray Mabus waded in among the caucusers in a downtown precinct and started pressuring people to shift to Obama. (This was so outrageous, I got 4 witnesses on it, and Eriposte, feel free to contact me directly for names and phone numbers).

(3) The Iowa Democrats' overly polite "rules" for the caucus allowing everyone who showed up and filled out a slip with their "name" and "address" to vote. Many of us moms in the crowd knew perfectly well some of those young people were YOUNG and I mean 14 or 15. And just in case the teenagers weren't sure what birthday to put on their newest fake IDs, the Party kindly posted signs at every caucus with the cut-off birthday. The County Auditor tells me 37 of the new voters in my own precinct said they were 17 1/2 to 18. I'll be using the open records law to try and get access and check these.

(4) Obama supporters, here as elsewhere, were booing and hissing at other Democrats' choice of alternate candidates. Anyone can see this for themselves on YouTube; check videotapes of that primary "launch" dinner in New Hampshire last week. (Do they actually think we'll vote for him in the general election now???).

And (5) overwhelmed caucus chairpeople pretty much lost control of the process when more people showed up than there are households in any precinct. (My precinct is 20 short blocks by 3 major streets, taking in about 100-150 households, not all Dems or Indies, but we had 322 "Democrats" at our caucus. Other sites had 450+!!)

Control was so lost that when my Republican neighbors left their own caucus and went down to see the Democratic one, they found the doors wide open; they walked in unchallenged and said they could easily have caucused.

Sadly, I've been interviewing caucus-goers all over the greater Des Moines area and hearing the same stories: Open side doors that people came in by, observers by the dozens who were counted at some precincts, floods of people that no one who had been door-knocking for months for Biden, Edwards, or Clinton had ever seen before, arriving to caucus for Obama.....

It was a dirty caucus and should not be regarded as any sort of mandate but one to clean up the process here.

Meanwhile, 60% of the votes counted in the Iowa Democratic caucus were from the new "voters".

We long-time Iowa Dems have worked for many reform candidates over many years, putting in thousands of hours phone-banking and door-knocking, and we were not treated with even basic courtesy by the Obama folks. If they think we'll help him win a general election out here, they have another thing coming!

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=11675

[Debi]

101. Thank you Indie Girl for this interesting report!

I wonder how two witnesses were able to track 'van loads' of people to the over 100 precincts in Des Moines - but I won't dispute it because I wasn't there. I also wasn't there to witness Clinton prevailing over Obama - and also reaching a tie with Obama in several of those precincts http://www.iowacaucusresults.com/ - However Obama did receive 472 delegates to Clinton's 333.

As for 'participating' - observers are allowed to aid in the gathering of supporters and in realignment as long as the Chair of the caucus doesn't take issue with it - if an observer were 'counted' that would be problematic - but organizing supporters and aiding in the realignment is not 'participating.

I truly hope young people who were not old enough to vote didn't attempt to participate - since it is considered perjury to do so (equaling up to $7,500 in fines and up to 5 years in jail) http://www.sos.state.ia.us/pdfs/elections/voteapp.pdf And our Attorney General doesn't hesitate in prosecuting attempts at voter fraud.

We had 40 'new' people attend our caucus - most of them I recognized as folks from my neighborhood (one a kid who had graduated last year and was home from college for Christmas break and a couple who had been life-long republicans - they caucused for Richardson). With 750 registered voters in my precinct only 125 of us were registered as Democrats - until last Thursday night that is. How can anyone complain that these folks have aligned themselves with the Democratic Party?

[Cha]

46. And the fightingdonkey has to

call supporters of another candidate names to puff himself up.

[Perry Logan]

47. Come to think of it--has the accusation of fraud ever come up before, or have we hit a new low?

[Adelante]

50. It may not be about Hillary or Obama

There were no voting machines in Iowa and there were voting machines in New Hampshire. DUers always are concerned with any election with voting machines. It may not be as subjective as it seems to Clinton supporters.

[mirrera]

66. There were no machines counting...n/t

[CreekDog]

84. no they aren't whiners...have you taken a poll?

give me a break.

i thought the Writers Guild was on strike, or are you making up this nonsense on your own?

[LittleBlue]

91. Probably because of the polling

The lead was so huge that many will believe something evil happened. The antics didn't help either. I don't personally believe this, but there you have it.

[Nailzberg]

97. You didn't see the threads about busing in non-Iowans?

Or the threads acussing Obama caucusers of "bullying"?

I did. Both sides have lobbed those grenades.

[CyberPieHole]

108. TrueDat...KicksNrec's...