Clinton-Obama why the hell not?

[Herman Munster]

After a long hard primary, what better ticket to unite democrats?

[mathewsleep]

1. it's her best way

to win. maybe her only way to win.

[DivorcingNeo]

2. Oh absolutely not!

I hope he never gets on a ticket with her. I could not vote for that.

[Lyric]

23. I'd do it, but I'd feel sick

about having to cast a vote for a man who chose to cuddle up to a walking disease like Donnie McClurkin. Clinton had better choose a MUCH better VP than that.

(And yeah, I know you probably meant it the opposite of the way that I did)

[DivorcingNeo]

28. Oh here we go again!

Well if you think Clinton has love for the Gay and Lesbian communities you are sadly mistaken. She has love...enough to get your votes till after the election. However she's a panderer just like her hubby. She'll tell you want you want to hear, but will she pull through?

I doubt it, especially since if she wins she'll be trying to hold on to another term.

Stop trying to paint Senator Obama as a homophobic, it's not cute and it's slanderous.

Hmm diseased? Are you that intolerant of other's personal lifestyle choices? Or is it that Donnie McCurkin's views are easier to hate because he's a little...bit..daaarker? Are you this up in arms over the fake closeted Gay Congressman that has been caught red handed (how many) times due to his proclivities, yet still denies? Maybe he has the complexion for protection from your misguided rage?

That is all.

[Lyric]

33. Oooookay.

Seriously--that was one of the most incoherent rants I think I've ever read.

I've never been called a racist before. I'm not sure whether I should laugh at you or pity you--are you *really* that small-minded, that you simply cannot comprehend why anyone would object to him unless they were secretly racist? I've been discriminated against enough in my life that I couldn't even imagine doing so to other people, but by all means, slander away. I'm a lesbian atheist woman living in the American South, so I have a pretty thick skin.

I'm not calling Obama homophobic. He isn't. I'm calling him weak, cowardly, and thoughtless for just ASSUMING that because we GLBT folks usually vote Dem, that he could give a soapbox to someone who considers homosexuals to be "diseased" and "dangerous" and we'd just have to STFU and take it, and all for the sake of a few measly bigot votes.

I have ZERO respect for a man who can't stand hard as a rock behind the principles of equality for all--and that includes not associating himself with people like Donnie McClurkin. All the fundie moran votes in the world aren't worth what he allowed to happen at that concert. I don't give a rat's ass in hell if you think it's cute or not. It's my freedom, my vote, and MY voice, and I'll use it until this election is over to make sure that even if he wins, he doesn't walk away unaware of the BIG mistake his campaign made that day.

GLBT Dems are nobody's fucking doormats.

And THAT is all.

[MountainLaurel]

35. Thank you for summing up the issue

So well, O.

[DivorcingNeo]

39. *sighs*

Hmm when did I call you racist?

You are not exempt from bias because you are homosexual. There is a difference between bias and racism...that, is what I alluded to. Don't reply to me as if you have some moral authority or you are chastising me, because you are not. Frankly I don't give a good goddamn.

However let me school you because I'm in the mood to...

First off, you responded to my post with your silliness about McClurkin.

Also I never said you don't have the right to feel or vote however you want, but when you start alluding to falsehoods about Senator Obama (which you did...don't deny it) I will put you in check!

You can rant, scream and carry on all you want, but you are no better than I because you are homosexual as I am no better than you because I am black. I'm just sick of the silly rhetoric. If, I, as a black woman was as paranoid about race as you are about your orientation, I'd seek counseling.

Once again, I keep asking these questions on DU...maybe you can finally answer...where is your compassion for the thousands of black men, women and children mowed down in the streets of America every single day? I think that may deserve a bit more immediacy than some stupid shit Donnie McClurkin says.

I am not saying what he stated, I subscribe to or that it's right but really...it's like none stop about this issue on DU. However, maybe I missed a post here or there but where were you when people on DU were calling Michelle Obama and her daughters too dark?

Or the other bigoted comments made about Obama's candidacy? Cocaine-gate ring a bell (ding a ling?)

I dunno...maybe I missed your outrage on those issues. However you want to follow my posts with some shit about Donnie M. That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. You...need...counseling.

[Tyler Durden]

57. I don't think there's a cure for being a damned fool...

...in which case you are out of luck.

Whether or not Barack Obama is a homophobe is not the issue; rather, whether or not he is a panderer with a predelection to prevaricate, well...that point is proven.

He PROMISED the LGBT community McClurkin WOULD NOT be the MC for the concert: he was, so either Obama is a fool or a liar. Pick one.

He Pre-Distanced himself from McClurkin, but once the bigoted BS was on the table, all he said was come together and respect others' beliefs. So again, he is pandering, or he is a fool for not realizing what was said was bigoted. Pick one.

Sooooo...as far as "HOPE" goes, I don't have much "HOPE" for Mr. Obama being anything other than what he is: a pandering politician.

That's only racist by association.

[Touchdown]

64. Too much use of the homasaxshul word gives you away.

Why type a 10 letter word when a 3 letter one will do? Because you have an agenda, and only religious bigots who hide behind the Bible refuse to use gay to describe people. You think we haven't noticed the last 30 years of this?

[NMMNG]

44. Save your breath and your sanity

Some people are not worth trying to educate.

[dbackjon]

36. Cut the racist CRAP

That is your answer everytime anyone rightfully calls out Obama for snuggling up to a homophobic bigot. I don't give a shit what color McClurkin is - he is a homophobic bigot, which I believe to be the case for you as well.

Racist assholes like you make me want to puke. And yes, I truly believe you are a racist.

[mondo joe]

37. What could make you defend an out-and-out lying bigot like McGurking?

:puke:

[DivorcingNeo]

42. Reading comprehension...please!

When did I defend McClurkin?

Once again...some of you wave the flag of homophobia and expect everyone to cower to your rants. I am defending, Barack Obama against the charge that he is homophobic. You all know perfectly well what I am saying, please don't act like you don't.

As for me being racist...well..I can't be defined by those of you who make those charges because I know who and what I am (unfortunately you don't). However I will not cower when you wave the homophobic flag and it's categorically false about Senator Obama.

So cry a me river.

[mondo joe]

43. Your defense of him is your pretense that the problem with him is his race.

I won't cry you a river because I have nothing to cry about. If you want to defend a bigot, you're the one who ought to be crying.

[DivorcingNeo]

45. Are you blind..or...

Do you think that repeatedly stating something that is NOT fact will eventually make it true?

Once again, please point out, where I defended, Donnie McClurkin's statements?

You can't.

I will defend Obama, because he is not homophobic and it's simply a smear tactic and distortion by some of you to discredit him.


Now I'm done with this topic until I feel the need to address it again. Hopefully not anytime soon.

[Chovexani]

50. DivorcingReality

Before you partake of the granite cookie, you need to STFU and pay attention to the fact that many of Obama's most vocal opponents on the McChickenhead issue are in fact GLBT people of color. Sister McChickenhead's views are easier to hate because he's a lying sack of shit hypocrite who never prayed a damn thing away aside from the carpal tunnel in his jaw, and goes on the 700 Club telling the world queer people are out to kill children.

Anyone who calls people like that "good" and "moral" is a homophobic bastard, period. You cannot reach a hand of reconciliation out to people whose hands are full with the baseball bats and guns they are attack you with.

[DivorcingNeo]

65. What?

double post

[DivorcingNeo]

67. What???

Who ever said McClurken was good and moral?

Also, reality check, black people are not a monolithic group, so I do not deny some people have an issue with the comments he's made and some perhaps don't. I do not follow organized religion so I could give two fucks to the wind what McClurken's opinion is on gay people. Like I care less what Pat Robertson's is on Black people or non-Christians.

Anyway, once again, the issue is about some of you attempting to paint Senator Obama as homophobic although the man has directly addressed this issue clearly and concisely. He does not endorse, agree or give a pass to the comments this man has made in the past or presently.

From Barack Obama:

"Over the last several weeks, the question of LGBT equality was placed on center stage by the appearance of Donnie McClurkin at one of my campaign events. McClurkin is a talented performer and a beloved figure among many African Americans and Christians around the country. At the same time, he espouses beliefs about homosexuality that I completely reject."

"The events of the last several weeks are not the occasion that I would have chosen to discuss America’s divisions on gay rights and my own deep commitment to LGBT equality. Now that the issue is before us, however, I do not intend to run away from it. These events have provided an important opportunity for us to confront a difficult fact: There are good, decent, moral people in this country who do not yet embrace their gay brothers and sisters as full members of our shared community."

Read the rest yourself
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alexokrent/C5zH


Now I do not know how much clearer the man can be on the subject. Yet, here we go on and on like a fucken merry go round.

[plantwomyn]

71. Your post answers your question

"There are good, decent, moral people in this country who do not yet embrace their gay brothers and sisters as full members of our shared community"
Obama said. Who else would he be referring to?
I posted on the Obama group about a letter I wrote to Obama before the McClurkin betrayal. No answer from Obama or his supporters!
If Obama "completely" rejects Donnie McClurkin he should have said so in front of the people at the concert, not latter in a post on his wedsite that you have to go through multiple stages to get through.
I challenge you to answer my post at his DU group site.

[DivorcingNeo]

81. I only wish I had that kind of access...

I for one, am not obligated to defend Barack Obama's campaign, I choose to defend what I see is distortions, fabrications and flat out falsehoods but I will concede one point...

He absolutely should make a more prominent statement in regards to Donnie's actions at the concert. At this point the damage is done, but I think it would be the right thing to do.

I have no sway over Senator Obama's actions, my opinions are my own and I am not affiliated with him in any official way. Keep writing his campaign letters.

Good luck to you.

[readmoreoften]

60. Oh please, gay posters aren't RACIST because they oppose McClurkin.

It's racist if you don't hold Black people accountable to the same ethics as you would white people. We've been fighting white homophobes and ex-gays for decades. Fighting homophobia in the black community is different?

[DivorcingNeo]

68. Refer to all my comments.

Stop getting emotional and actually read what I'm saying.

[K Gardner]

3. She's not fit to be in the same room with Obama. Period.

[Deep13]

30. You mean like Senate meeting hall?

Where they caucus for the same side. Take a chill pill.

[Deep13]

31. ***delete***

This is pissing me off. Evey time I post a second reply it replies to my post and not the OP.

[TwilightGardener]

4. I don't want him to be her VP. I hope he turns it down, if offered.

[TwilightZone]

5. I'd vote for that in a heartbeat.

I'd vote for the reverse, as well.

[Frances]

7. I would too

Either Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton would be fine with me

[Hobarticus]

12. Never happen, but I like it...

Too much animosity, at this point.

[auburngrad82]

52. I'd vote for it with no problems

Clinton pulls the women votes and Obama pulls the independents and youth votes. And it should energize the African American voters as well.

[geek tragedy]

6. That would be selling out on his part. n/t

[Hobarticus]

8. His ego would never take it. eom

[magatte]

55. Barack is possibly the most humble guy currently in politics.

And it IS slanderous to start talking about him being a big EGO...

I will call you on slander all day... (I happen to have some time on my hands)

:)

[Arugula Latte]

9. Sounds good -- except for the Clinton part.

Obama-Edwards or Edwards-Obama. Dream ticket.

[Invidious]

10. Nope

I would hope he would turn it down. Couldn't vote for that ticket.

[Joe the Revelator]

11. No, I don't think that would work for Obama supporters

[emilyg]

14. Would it work for the country?

[TwilightZone]

18. That...

is one of the best responses I have ever seen on DU.

Bravo.

[RichGirl]

13. That would be my dream ticket.

Imagine how gorgeous they would look standing next to their two white guy aponents

[Renew Deal]

15. I don't think that would work.

But that's a whole other story.

[truebrit71]

16. Because it will not unite the party...

...I despise EVERYTHING that woman stands for and represents...and so do many, many other liberals like me...

[ginchinchili]

17. And put the worst the Democrats have to offer on one ticket?

Don't let your emotions choke off the oxygen to your brain. It will be hard enough for either candidate to win on their own.

[BlueStater]

19. Considering I don't like either of them, that's the worst ticket imaginable n/t

[DivorcingNeo]

25. Although I disagree with you...

(because I'm an Obama supporter)

I like your honesty. How can anyone vote for half of something they don't believe in??!

Someone tonight told me, they cannot stomach Hillary Clinton but if she gets the nomination they'll have no choice but to vote for her.

I thought to myself, what the fuck? Is this what things are becoming in this country? This is why nothing is changing for the better in the past couple of decades. People are not voting their true conscious. They are not challenging the establishment and therefore we continue to get what we have been getting.

I don't know about you but what we've been getting is not working at all.

[Auntie Bush]

48. I thought we had Bush...not a wishy washy Dem.

Because all those people that thought/voted like that (Naderites) we lost the election!

[DivorcingNeo]

69. Wishy washy?

So voting for what you truly believe in, is being wishy washy? No wonder this country is in the sorry state it is. I'm sorry but I'm not in the business of giving the Democratic party chance after chance when the results are always the same.

There are no results. It's about keeping their party in power and continuing their children's and grandchildren cushy privileged existence. I'm sorry but I will not be told who to vote for or how to vote. I will thoughtfully consider the candidates positions and vote for whom I choose, based on what I believe and what's best for my family and community.

I have already given the Dems a pass by voting for Kerry and Gore, although I did not fully believe in either of them as candidates.

Not to mention spineless results the Dems have shown in Congress since the '06 midterms elections.

If you keep voting for crap how can you expect a rosy outcome?

[Auntie Bush]

74. If you don't vote for the crap your offered then expect

an even bigger pile of crap. So you're going to waste your vote and a chance to help Democrats win...in order to prove you have convictions?
Aren't your children's future worth your vote. Who the hell besides a Democrat can be of some help? What we need is a bigger majority and then we'll get something done. How the heck can we get anything accomplished with a Rethug president that vetoes all our bills and his buddies in congress rubber stamp their vote?

Calm down...you sound pretty angry! I think you misunderstood my post and the preceding posts. I didn't say you were being wishy washy. Please re- read. It just upsets me that you and many others...especially Clinton-haters...would rather not vote Democratic rather than vote for her. I can't see where that's the best thing to do for our future. I'll go back and re-read the posts later and see where and why the miscommunication.

[Apollo11]

51. We should all support the nominee

Let's get some perspective here.

After the Convention, everyone needs to get behind the nominee, whoever it is.

That's what the whole primary process is about. You have to respect the outcome.

Otherwise you are just a sore loser or a traitor. Like Joe Lieberman in 2006.

All the candidates have promised that they will support the eventual nominee.

If you don't support the Democratic ticket you are just helping the Republicans.

We don't need 4 to 8 years of Huckabee or McCain or Romney or Giuliani.

If Obama doesn't win the nomination in 2008 maybe he will get it in 2016.

But only if he can convince America that he is the best person for the job.

[DivorcingNeo]

70. Hmm... are we living in Nazi Germany?

Um no, you are the traitor for making such a asinine comment like you just did. I hope that more people of color wake up to this silly way of thinking in regards to the two major parties. No it is not traitorous to use your own commonsense and judgement to pick who you believe is the best candidate that represents your values, ideals and issues.

As for the last part of your question, if Senator Obama does not get the nomination and I do not believe the other candidates are best for the job, why on earth should I vote for them? Just to avoid having a Republican in office?

No, I'm sorry, that is not good enough and that is not what I call Democracy. I have a choice to use my vote to select the person (I feel is best) for our highest public office.

I will not be shamed or bullied into doing otherwise.

This is why issues plaguing certain communities are not resolved. It's a paternalistic attitude by the Dems, that they know what's best, but in the end they don't do shit and then feel entitled and expect to have our votes year after year...after year.

Like any profession, if you don't do the job right and are incompetent, you get fired.

[madrchsod]

20. no it would`t work

uniting the party will not happen over night

[Didereaux]

27. I'm not certain those two gigantic egos could allow for that, although as said it would be a strong

ticket and maybe the only one that could assure a defeat of Mccaine. For it is McCaine who is the threat at this point, If he maintains his health, he will get the nomination dure as hell, and he would bring back a lot of disgusted Republicans that otherwise would skip this election.

[Catherine Vincent]

21. That's what I'm banking on.

Or Obama-Clinton!

[angee_is_mad]

22. Hell no!!!!

Obama/anybody but clinton!!!

[ecstatic]

24. I'd love that, but I don't know if that is possible

after some of the unfortunate things that were said over the past two days. Hopefully no hard feelings have developed between the two.

[DivorcingNeo]

26. Too fucken late.

Obama, puhlease keep your self respect and decency. Do not sell out to Clinton!

[ClericJohnPreston]

29. THEY ARE PERFECT AS A COUPLE

of sell-out Corporatists.

[Deep13]

32. White men are a large voting block.

They can't afford to alienate that group. So the nomination of either excludes the other.

[Colobo]

34. Clinton and Obama have to look for white males as VPs.

It's the only way they would make it.

[Eurobabe]

59. I disagree.

Just saying. That ticket could get everyone fired up. :hi:

[Bishop Rook]

38. Stranger things have happened

And one the smoke clears, we'll all forget why we were fighting. In 2003, I was passionate for Kucinich and my best friend threw in for Clark, and my dad was a Deaniac. By 2004 after the nomination was done, all three of us were ready to go to the mat for Kerry.

At the same time, I think both Clinton and Obama have stronger running-mate choices than each other. Obama and Edwards would do well together, Obama's conciliatory tone matched with Edwards' partisan fire; Obama would also do well with Biden to soften criticisms for lack of foreign policy experience. I haven't really considered who would best patch Clinton's weaknesses, though I suppose Obama might work to attract independents and younger voters.

Or, dare I say it, Clinton/Gore '08? He didn't rule that out.

...Oh, I just opened up a WHOLE new can of worms, didn't I...

[Little Star]

40. That would be the most beautiful ticket EVER!!!!!!

[Kat45]

41. Would never win the election. No white guy on the ticket.

I honestly believe that if either of them gets the nomination, he or she would have to choose a white guy for VP. Racists + misogynists + others with some kind of discomfort = this ticket loses.

[Amimnoch]

49. I tend to disagree.

I think most of what remains of that ignorant portion of society (not just "white males" but the ones who will limit their vote to just "white males")are the same ones that wouldn't vote for either of them regardless of if they have a "white male" VP running mate or not. I'd also like to think that the majority (if not all) of those same small minded individuals would prob vote only Repub anyway. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think the vast majority of Democrats, and for election purposes, more importantly the independent voters in this day and age are past the point of caveman thinking when considering a candidate for our highest office.

[Kat45]

77. I hope you're right but I'm not nearly as optimistic as you

I agree that a number of those people are those who would vote repub anyway, but I don't necessarily think it's a majority of them. I admit it, I can be quite the cynic, but I'm totally terrified of getting another repub administration when this seems like the perfect time for the Democratic candidate to be favored. WHen I was younger, I would have gone with my idealism but after years of seeing the way things can play out, I'm being very cautious and looking seriously at electability.

[Andy823]

46. Never happen

They both want the power, and they aren't about to play second fiddle to each other!

[leftynyc]

76. But - let's just say

she has the delegate count to win (or he does, this could work either way). Whoever is the VP already has a leg up on the next election (which is why I think it more likely to happen with her on the top of the ticket merely because he's younger). It sounds good but I'd have to think it through and from what I'm seeing of Obama supporters on this thread, they want him or nothing at all.

[Auntie Bush]

47. Sounds good to me...an unbeatable ticket and Obama will be right

there to snap up the presidency in 2016.

[ShortnFiery]

53. Simply "No." eom.

[magatte]

54. Unfortunately there would a fundamental clash centered on INTEGRITY...

YOu can't sell you soul for a VP slot. And Barack is all soul.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

56. How about Obama-Clinton?

Could that combination work?

[Tyler Durden]

58. Maybe after he makes amends.

Other than that...I don't buy it.

[seasat]

61. It'd help us hold the White House for 16 years.

Obama is young enough that while earning his creds in an executive position, he could run for president in 2020. His oratory skills matched with Americans used to seeing him in the office would help push him through.

However, I don't see it happening. I imagine, Clinton would choose Clark, Vilsack, or some other white male as VP. I think they'd be worried about having both a woman and minority on the same ticket. Also, I don't know if they can bury the hatchet before the general election. I'm beginning to think that some of the animosity between the two camps is for real and not just political theater.

[Dawgs]

62. Because I want to win the GE.

Hillary as the nominee is a guaranteed loss.

[bullwinkle428]

63. I'd be very surprised if she didn't give the spot to Wes Clark,

if she does end up winning the nomination - an excellent choice, both in terms of the man and the strategy.

[mrdemocrat78]

66. Why Not? Obama-Edwards, that's why not

[Carrieyazel]

72. Because we must be out of our minds to go with that ticket in November.

And what about all the Democrats who support Edwards, Richardson, Biden, Kucinich etc.?
You're validating the media's popularity contest between two candidates, and to hell with the rest who never had a chance.

[ButterflyBlood]

73. That'd be one way for me to warm up to Clinton

But I'm still going for Obama at the top of the ticket first.

[donheld]

75. It's fine with me n/t

[TwilightGardener]

78. oops dupe

[TwilightGardener]

79. Clintonites know she is not popular enough to win on her own--

Republicans hate her. So they want to harness Obama's popularity to put her over the top. I hope he says hell fucking no, watches her lose in November, and runs again in 2012.

Let her have Crusty Old Wes Clark, or the simpering vanilla Bayh. Have fun, y'all.

[bpeale]

80. well, it would unite Hillary & Obama supporters

since the two candidates are exactly alike.