"God help me, I'm off the fence and going with Hillary."

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Believe it or not, that strikes me as a positive statement about Clinton's strength as a candidate. I am a reluctant Clinton supporter.

I don't think she's inspiring, I don't think of her as "a woman" the idea of "wwoman president" doesn't turn me on or off (I don't think of Obama as black either sorry). I've ended up in the Clinton camp more than the other two just by concluding she would be a better president than the other two but even more because I think she would be a better candidate (since national security will be at the top of issues in November). Also, I think the candidate is Billary and no one has convinced me why 8 years of peace and prosperity is too "old guard."

Obama supporters are much more enthusiastic about their candidate on a personal level. BUT 2/3 of people haven't been moved in the same way just like 2/3 haven't been moved to support Clinton yet either.

My question is whether in the general election Clinton is more likely to win with a reluctant majority or Obama is more likely to win with an enthusiastic, idealistic majority. Since I think national security and the Iran drumbeat will get louder and louder and dominate in November, I am currently with Clinton based on electability (I think all 3 Dems are the same policy wise). She won't win because she's "liked" a lot but on competence. Would Obama win on some kind of vague inspiration for "hope and change" that by then will be 10 months old in most people's minds? Yes if PUKES nominate Huckabee. If it's Romjob, Rudy or McCain, I have huge doubt.

[OHdem10]

1. Splendid analysis.

The General Election is my concern.

[kenfrequed]

18. Republican lite

Is not going to win a general election. The majority of America wanted out of Iraq six months ago, do you somehow think half staying in Iraq to "fight terrorism" is going to appeal as we fall into recession (or lower?).

Honestly this kind of pseudo-moderation reminds me of all the Democrats that jumped on the "I'm fiscally conservative and socially moderate" wagon. I mean nothing spells L.O.S.E.R. more than openly adopting the other sides words in opposition to your own, and somehow pretending its a good thing.

[ORDagnabbit]

2. edwards is such a better candidate

[Catchawave]

4. Agree....since 2001

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0110.green.html

:hi:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

11. I was leaning STRONG Edwards until more recently. The reason leaning Clinton now was....

I didn't hear Edwards on the offense about national security. Before you puke, I'll just say that the fact that Clinton has always had one foot in the general election (so talked about al qaeda, Iran as terrorists) impressed me. Also, national security IS importantand I wanted to hear our candidates acknowledge it. It's important because it IS important but it's also important for electability especially for Democrats.

I've been convinced from the beginning terra terra terra would be a huge issue. I thought at first Edwards had the right mix of likability, from the south, and smart but I thought he needed to be more hawkish especially to overcome the haircut bullshit. So far haven't seen that so Clinton surpassed him on those issues in my mind.

[Skidmore]

3. I don't think you were on the fence to begin with. Your threads and posts

seemed to indicate that you had fallen off the fence already.

[Anouka]

9. Yeah. n/t

[Proud2BAmurkin]

13. I was quoting other people who got off the fence today. I'm currently in Clinton camp but

not counting anyone out yet

[ORDagnabbit]

15. propaganda comes in many forms...

[Bonobo]

5. Believe me, no one here is even slightly surprised. nt

[Cameron27]

6. I'm supporting her

because I'm not looking for inspiration in this election, I'm looking for afforable healthcare and social security that actually is security; I want a lot of things to happen and I know Clinton will fight like hell to do it...maybe Obama will too, but I'm not as convinced.

[mtnsnake]

7. Well done

[incapsulated]

8. Hey, thanks :)

I agree with much of what you say.

This is my issue with Obama vs. Hillary.

I was afraid McCain would get the nom, then he seemed dead, now he is back.

I am seriously concerned that Obama will look like a rookie compared to him, especially if there is any kind of foreign or ME related shit going down during the GE. People will forget all the history and go with the experienced war hero. Also, McCain, despite what we think of him, is still viewed positively by people.

I think either one is a good bet against any other repuke. However, I am concerned that given the really historic challenges the next president is going to face, someone new to all this and with very little national or international experience is going to sink under it, no matter how smart or well advised. Then we get Jeb or something.

To me, this isn't about change, it's about setting the ship straight before we go off a cliff.

It is a vote for Billary and that is one of her strengths, frankly. I'm not sentimental about any of this, I want to a) win and b) have two successful terms.

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. Not rushing toward the cliff would be a pretty big change

I'll take it and build from there. McCain worries me also, the rest of the G.O.P. field other than Huckabee is imploading.

[DesertFlower]

19. McCain worries me too.

but he differs from the republican party on immigration. i don't think he'll be the nominee. if he is president, we will be in iraq for the rest of our lives and our children's lives.

[kenfrequed]

10. Standard media boondoggle

Presuming it is merely Hillary or Obama v. the republican is a false media choice.

There are other Democrats running. And we REALLY need to stop letting the media pick our candidates.

As far as the Republicans go, Huckabee is highly probable as is Mccain. Romney is too mormon and too liberal. And when Rudy riding around in drag in the 9-11 slaughtermobile will be run into a brick wall called S. Carolina. His only hope is to last until New York or California, but by then he is toast.

Both McCain and Huckabee are both easily beaten. McCains dogged support of the war and hypocracy with regards to torture will not help him. Huckabee is a religious right loony who cannot win.

I would ask why we don't actually try to run the Best, most inspiring Democrat we can find, rather than some cold headed calculated choice based on who we think can most artfully run to the middle and make corporate America happy.

[sniffa]

12. "God Help Me"

:thumbsup:

[Rock_Garden]

14. Eeeee-xcellent!

[DesertFlower]

17. i'm going with obama.

hillary can do the job from day #1. i have no doubt about that. however, obama strikes something in me that i haven't felt in years, so i have to go with my "gut".

obama will be fine as long as he gets the right people working for him. i'd love to see joe biden as secretary of state.

i do worry about a possible terrorist attack. hillary would be able to handle it immediately, whereas obama -- well i don't know.